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Zander Clark vs Craig Gordon ( merged )


DS98

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To rescue the transfer thread. . .
 

A very unique situation. We have two very good goalies who want to go to the Euros. If both remain at Hearts this season then only one goes. If one goes on loan then both might go. 
 

From a selfish point of view we keep both. From a players point of view? They’ll want to know Naismith’s plans before Jan 31st. Who does he realistically see as undisputed number 1? Whoever it is, the other will want away. Going to the Euros is too big for them. 
 

If Zander goes away then the risk is that CG is not what he once was or breaks down again. If Craig goes out on loan? He’d probably do what he always does. Prove everyone wrong and pull of world class saves week in week out for someone else. We’d have Zander which is great if he keeps up his recent form but let’s not pretend he’s been good all season. Dundee, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Rangers. 

A very tough decision for Naisy but he’s already proved he’s not scared to make big calls. 

 

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I think it would be nuts to let Zander or Craig go anywhere. Zander has had a decent season and nobody knows for definite how Craig will be until he’s played a few games, by that time the window will be over. 

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gregzy2k7

My take is

 

Gordon is the much better keeper (obv)

 

However Clark is playing really well and probably deserves to keep his place in the team, 

 

I think Naismith is the type that will reward and be loyal to players that have been good for him, which is why I think Clark will remain no1 choice, I wouldn't be surprised if however Gordon did play against Spartans in the cup tie though (makes sense) and maybe 1 or 2 home games before the season has finished.

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2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think it would be nuts to let Zander or Craig go anywhere. Zander has had a decent season and nobody knows for definite how Craig will be until he’s played a few games, by that time the window will be over. 

This.

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AlimOzturk

Zander arguably 7-8 years left in him. 
 

I started questioning him a while back but he has become very solid and found form just as Gordon came back. No Coincidence imo. 
 

Glad to have both. Zander is out number 1. 

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Give Gordon the cup games. Its about the best we can do at the moment. 

 

Zander is in excellent form, so it wouldn't be fair or right to drop him. 

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Doctor FinnBarr
14 minutes ago, OTT said:

Give Gordon the cup games. Its about the best we can do at the moment. 

 

Zander is in excellent form, so it wouldn't be fair or right to drop him. 

 

Spot on.

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9 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think it would be nuts to let Zander or Craig go anywhere. Zander has had a decent season and nobody knows for definite how Craig will be until he’s played a few games, by that time the window will be over. 


I’d keep them both but whoever doesn’t play is going to be mightily mightily pissed off. Zander will think he’s earned the right and over the last 6/7 games he probably has. However with the best will in the world I doubt Gordon would’ve ever have believed his international tournament chances would be scuppered by Zander Clark. 
 

Then we’ve got to look past the summer. If Gordon is in fact back to his best, we could get another 2-3 years of world class goalie. In Clark we could have a very capable goalie for 5-6 years. Either way, whatever happens I’d be very surprised if both are here next season. 

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buca junior

Craig has missed a year of football on top of previous long term injuries. 
 

If he is now fully fit and not going to start, the club should let him play elsewhere.

 

My hope is that he is fit, back to his best and starting for Hearts soon.

 

Thats not a slight on Zander, I’m just a big fan of Gordon and it would be a great story if he could recapture form and lift the cup one more time. 

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Bull's-eye

Zander is the current number 1, doesn't make mistakes, knows the players in front of him and will potentially make more money for the club in potential transfer fees.

 

No brainer.

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vegas-voss

Gordon and 7 or 8 games ago I would have said get him back in pronto but Clark holds the jersey and has been good those games so it's hard to drop him.I say that as someone who hasn't been a fan of Clark and will no doubt be quick to jump on the Gordon in bandwagon as soon as he does have a few howlers.

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Go for it 1308
34 minutes ago, DS98 said:

To rescue the transfer thread. . .
 

A very unique situation. We have two very good goalies who want to go to the Euros. If both remain at Hearts this season then only one goes. If one goes on loan then both might go. 
 

From a selfish point of view we keep both. From a players point of view? They’ll want to know Naismith’s plans before Jan 31st. Who does he realistically see as undisputed number 1? Whoever it is, the other will want away. Going to the Euros is too big for them. 
 

If Zander goes away then the risk is that CG is not what he once was or breaks down again. If Craig goes out on loan? He’d probably do what he always does. Prove everyone wrong and pull of world class saves week in week out for someone else. We’d have Zander which is great if he keeps up his recent form but let’s not pretend he’s been good all season. Dundee, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Rangers. 

A very tough decision for Naisy but he’s already proved he’s not scared to make big calls. 

 

It's a mind fxxk to pick eitherway. Ì hate this thread already🥺

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If I'm Steve Clarke I'm taking Gunn, Gordon and Clark to the Euros regardless of whether Craig is first choice here or not. If Gunn gets injured, no offence to Zander or Liam Kelly but I'm wanting a big steady experienced keeper coming in. 

 

Sadly and folk might not like this or agree but I think Craig has probably played his last games for Scotland anyway as Gunn is without a doubt now the no.1 GK. Unless Gunn suffers a similar fate to Craig or has a complete horror show. 

 

I think we need to focus more on ourselves and drop the sentiment tbh. It would be unfair to drop Clark as he's been very good for us but Craig pre injury was by far the superior keeper. Whether he's still as sharp as he was remains to be seen but I certainly wouldn't write CG off. He spent 2 years out, practically retired and came back probably even better at Celtic. 

 

I'd probably put Craig in for the cup game against Spartans and maybe rotate them. They're both that good that I don't think there'd be any issues with the defence. I think keeping both of them on their toes may even be a good thing for us. 

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13 minutes ago, DS98 said:


I’d keep them both but whoever doesn’t play is going to be mightily mightily pissed off. Zander will think he’s earned the right and over the last 6/7 games he probably has. However with the best will in the world I doubt Gordon would’ve ever have believed his international tournament chances would be scuppered by Zander Clark. 
 

Then we’ve got to look past the summer. If Gordon is in fact back to his best, we could get another 2-3 years of world class goalie. In Clark we could have a very capable goalie for 5-6 years. Either way, whatever happens I’d be very surprised if both are here next season. 

I agree. Very tricky situation and one of them will likely end up unhappy. Ultimately it’s up to the manager to pick the best team and the other one sits on the bench. Don’t envy Naisy dealing with this situation but a better position to be in than choosing between Zlamal, Doyle and poppadom hands. 😂

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1971fozzy

You don’t rotate keepers.

i mind we did that with Henry Smith and Nicky Walker and it just doesn’t work. Defenders need to know their keeper inside out. We have a fantastic defensive record this season so we don’t disrupt it in my opinion. I love Craig Gordon but what a kick in the teeth to Zander if he’s dropped given his recent performances.

 

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32 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think it would be nuts to let Zander or Craig go anywhere. Zander has had a decent season and nobody knows for definite how Craig will be until he’s played a few games, by that time the window will be over. 


There’s a bounce game next week (Killie I think) Spartans, Dundee and Aberdeen before the window closes. If Gordon hasn’t reclaimed the gloves by then I can see him having a chat with Naisy. He’ll be thinking he’s not went through 12 months of hell to be understudy to Zander Clark. 

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Pasquale for King

It’s up to the manager to make the call, thats what he gets paid for. If hes happy with Clark and the mistakes he makes then thats up to him, hes not slow discarding others who makes bad gaffes.  
As for Scotland im sure Marshall wasn’t playing before the last euros so Clarke cant make that excuse if our two GKs are sharing the gloves before the summer. 

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Pasquale for King
9 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

You don’t rotate keepers.

i mind we did that with Henry Smith and Nicky Walker and it just doesn’t work. Defenders need to know their keeper inside out. We have a fantastic defensive record this season so we don’t disrupt it in my opinion. I love Craig Gordon but what a kick in the teeth to Zander if he’s dropped given his recent performances.

 

Have we not disrupted it to play Halkett? If everyone is fit we will have some difficult choices to be made.

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cookieboy
53 minutes ago, DS98 said:

To rescue the transfer thread. . .
 

A very unique situation. We have two very good goalies who want to go to the Euros. If both remain at Hearts this season then only one goes. If one goes on loan then both might go. 
 

From a selfish point of view we keep both. From a players point of view? They’ll want to know Naismith’s plans before Jan 31st. Who does he realistically see as undisputed number 1? Whoever it is, the other will want away. Going to the Euros is too big for them. 
 

If Zander goes away then the risk is that CG is not what he once was or breaks down again. If Craig goes out on loan? He’d probably do what he always does. Prove everyone wrong and pull of world class saves week in week out for someone else. We’d have Zander which is great if he keeps up his recent form but let’s not pretend he’s been good all season. Dundee, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Rangers. 

A very tough decision for Naisy but he’s already proved he’s not scared to make big calls. 

 

how do you know 

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1971fozzy
4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Have we not disrupted it to play Halkett? If everyone is fit we will have some difficult choices to be made.


of course, but goalkeeper is slightly different in my opinion anyway. It’s a sole position whereas defence changes formation and personel frequently sometimes.

the chances of injury and suspensions in outfield is far greater leading to changes.

goalkeepers rarely get injured or suspended (I know it can happen).

I personally think Gordon is the better keeper (although nobody knows now) but for me it’s not fair on Zander to be dropped at the moment when he’s playing so well and with the defence has such a great record.

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Clark has done nothing to deserve being punted back onto the bench. He has been solid for us, and is a very good goalkeeper at our level. 

 

Gordon (unfortunately) has it all to prove. 40 years old, and coming back from a major injury.  Had it been 10 years ago, it would have been a no-brainer decision to get him back in, but it's Zander's to lose at this minute in time. 

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PS - penalty save at Easter Road, in a game we won, and then a clean sheet at Parkhead 2 weeks before. 

 

The ball is most definitely in Zander Clark's court. 

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AlimOzturk
13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Have we not disrupted it to play Halkett? If everyone is fit we will have some difficult choices to be made.


Naw. Halkett is a 28 year defender who should be approaching his peak. The other is a 41 year old approaching the end of his career. 
 

Major differences.

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AlimOzturk
3 minutes ago, tian447 said:

Clark has done nothing to deserve being punted back onto the bench. He has been solid for us, and is a very good goalkeeper at our level. 

 

Gordon (unfortunately) has it all to prove. 40 years old, and coming back from a major injury.  Had it been 10 years ago, it would have been a no-brainer decision to get him back in, but it's Zander's to lose at this minute in time. 


This. 

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Pasquale for King
6 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:


of course, but goalkeeper is slightly different in my opinion anyway. It’s a sole position whereas defence changes formation and personel frequently sometimes.

the chances of injury and suspensions in outfield is far greater leading to changes.

goalkeepers rarely get injured or suspended (I know it can happen).

I personally think Gordon is the better keeper (although nobody knows now) but for me it’s not fair on Zander to be dropped at the moment when he’s playing so well and with the defence has such a great record.

Players are dropped all the time no matter how well they are playing, you play your best players.

Do you think any of the great managers would have a second thought about playing someone who is better than the person currently playing?

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Pasquale for King
4 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:


Naw. Halkett is a 28 year defender who should be approaching his peak. The other is a 41 year old approaching the end of his career. 
 

Major differences.

We have no idea if Halkett will return as good as before after 6 games over the last 19 months. 
Gordon may well be reaching the end of his career, but like Halkett we wont know how long he can go on for unless he plays games. 
 

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1971fozzy
14 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Players are dropped all the time no matter how well they are playing, you play your best players.

Do you think any of the great managers would have a second thought about playing someone who is better than the person currently playing?


Ok so you would drop Zander. Fair enough, I get it.

this threads just asking for opinions.

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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, 1971fozzy said:


Ok so you would drop Zander. Fair enough, I get it.

this threads just asking for opinions.

I would sell him, he is unlikely to go up value wise from now.
We all have our opinions 👍🏽

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1971fozzy
13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I would sell him, he is unlikely to go up value wise from now.
We all have our opinions 👍🏽


you would sell Zander ?  
what if Craig Gordon (god forbid) doesn’t recover as we all hope ? 
that wouldn’t bode well for our quest for 3rd.

 

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McNelly15

Big teams have two quality keeper’s sometimes even three. It’s a good problem to have. Naismith certainly won’t be losing sleep over it. 

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Jason Dufner

Gordon has to be brought back in.

 

We need to see if he’s still near his level pre injury and, assuming that’s still the case he is worlds apart from Clark.

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Pasquale for King
10 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:


you would sell Zander ?  
what if Craig Gordon (god forbid) doesn’t recover as we all hope ? 
that wouldn’t bode well for our quest for 3rd.

 

Obviously depends on Gordon being back to himself, both want to play, would you degrade our best ever GK by sending him out on loan? 

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1971fozzy
2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Obviously depends on Gordon being back to himself, both want to play, would you degrade our best ever GK by sending him out on loan? 


nope I wouldn’t sell or send either on loan. And that’s not degrading either. Certainly not this window. Unless either wanted to leave.

im pretty sure Craig Gordon is understanding enough to appreciate the position at the moment

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AlimOzturk
50 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We have no idea if Halkett will return as good as before after 6 games over the last 19 months. 
Gordon may well be reaching the end of his career, but like Halkett we wont know how long he can go on for unless he plays games. 
 


Better chance for a younger man near his prime recovering than a 41 year old. 
 

There is only 1 position for Gordon to challenge for. 3 for Halkett. 
 

Totally different situation. 

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Pasquale for King
10 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:


nope I wouldn’t sell or send either on loan. And that’s not degrading either. Certainly not this window. Unless either wanted to leave.

im pretty sure Craig Gordon is understanding enough to appreciate the position at the moment

No doubt CG understands the situation but will also be desperate to play, hopefully he gets the opportunity.

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1 hour ago, AlimOzturk said:


Naw. Halkett is a 28 year defender who should be approaching his peak. The other is a 41 year old approaching the end of his career. 
 

Major differences.

Halkett no where near match fit the man has a arse the size of a small car.

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Pasquale for King
4 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:


Better chance for a younger man near his prime recovering than a 41 year old. 
 

There is only 1 position for Gordon to challenge for. 3 for Halkett. 
 

Totally different situation. 

Halkett can only play central in a 3 or as CH in a back 4. 
 

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Pasquale for King
2 minutes ago, bawheed said:

Halkett no where near match fit the man has a arse the size of a small car.

But we can play him, or Boyce/McKay/Beni to get match fit but not Gordon 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️😆?!?!

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I will always be team Craig, but then maybe I’m just a 28 year old man clinging on to his childhood.

 

Zander doesn’t deserve to be dropped right now. I’ve met his parents in Dickens a couple of times and they’ve always had a lot of humility when it comes to the idea of Craig coming back into the team. For me Zander has the gloves and that is despite the fact that Craig Gordon is one of the best football players we’ve had in 150 years

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dannymack
2 hours ago, DS98 said:

To rescue the transfer thread. . .
 

A very unique situation. We have two very good goalies who want to go to the Euros. If both remain at Hearts this season then only one goes. If one goes on loan then both might go. 
 

From a selfish point of view we keep both. From a players point of view? They’ll want to know Naismith’s plans before Jan 31st. Who does he realistically see as undisputed number 1? Whoever it is, the other will want away. Going to the Euros is too big for them. 
 

If Zander goes away then the risk is that CG is not what he once was or breaks down again. If Craig goes out on loan? He’d probably do what he always does. Prove everyone wrong and pull of world class saves week in week out for someone else. We’d have Zander which is great if he keeps up his recent form but let’s not pretend he’s been good all season. Dundee, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Rangers. 

A very tough decision for Naisy but he’s already proved he’s not scared to make big calls. 

 

 

In my opinion Zander Clark stays No 1, Craig Gordon No2. 

 

It's a very hard decision for Naisy and Co to make, weirdly a great situation to have. 

 

Angus Gunn, Zander Clark and A N Other to the Euros. 

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3 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

My take is

 

Gordon is the much better keeper (obv)

 

However Clark is playing really well and probably deserves to keep his place in the team, 

 

I think Naismith is the type that will reward and be loyal to players that have been good for him, which is why I think Clark will remain no1 choice, I wouldn't be surprised if however Gordon did play against Spartans in the cup tie though (makes sense) and maybe 1 or 2 home games before the season has finished.

Clark is constantly under pressure with Gordon in the wings....I applaud him as he has faced up and done fine, not saying he is better, but he is doing well.

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Scott Monument

Clark at the moment but any blunders from him like earlier in the season then Craig Gordon should be given his chance,I see no reason why both can’t go to the euros as Liam Kelly is not international standard 

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Not sure why Craig Gordon would need to be playing regularly to get picked as Scotlands 2nd or 3rd choice keeper as Ross McRorie never plays for Rangers but often finds himself in Scotland squads - Clarke knows Gordon won't let him down even if he only gets a couple of games between now and the end of the season

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Robbo-Jambo
10 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

Zander is the current number 1, doesn't make mistakes, knows the players in front of him and will potentially make more money for the club in potential transfer fees.

 

No brainer.

To say he doesn't make mistakes is just not true.

 

He has made plenty but his form recently has been much more solid.

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i wish jj was my dad
10 hours ago, Go for it 1308 said:

It's a mind fxxk to pick eitherway. Ì hate this thread already🥺

Yip. It's a great dilemma to have but an absolute **** at the same time. 

Some great posts as well. Everybody wants Craig back and if he returns even remotely close to his best that's the right call but it's a risk and Zander doesn't deserve to be dropped. 

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Whitburn Hearts

Craig Gordon is not one for the future . Zander Clark can be . 

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Zander Clark vs Craig Gordon ( merged )

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