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Should Naismith , Mcavoy and Forrest be sacked?


rocketman19

Should Naismith , Mcavoy and Forrest be sacked?  

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  1. 1. Should Naismith , Mcavoy and Forrest be sacked.


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  • Poll closed on 03/11/23 at 00:00

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Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine
15 hours ago, DalryJambo said:

 

What's your background in running a football club? What's the highest level you've taken a club? You (probably, but correct me if I'm wrong) don't have the first idea how to actully run a professional football club.

 

The problem football fans have is that they only care about the results of one team, their team. But, they compare their team against every other team in the league. This means every year (excluding the old firm) we have 9 teams we're competing against and it only takes one of them to get it right and it makes everyone say, look they can do it but we can't. This year its St Mirren, last year it was Aberdeen, the year before it was Dundee United. In the last 3 years St mirren have been bottom half, 6th and in this year are doing well. That's years of building, next season they could be crap again. Aberdeen have been up and down for years, hibs the same...Dundee United arent even in the league any more!! But every year one if them gets it right and they give us a challenge.

 

I 100% feel our club are slowly moving in the right direction, the squad is improving year on year (maybe in its depth, rather than the starting 11) and this will allow us to change our recruitment strategy in the near future (2 or 3 players each summer rather 5-6).


Mate hardly gonna be on here if I’ve ran a football club, what a daft thing to start a comment with on Jambos Kickback! If you’re looking to debate an experienced professional in the field of running a football club you’re sorely mistaken in looking here.

 

You then go on to say that we aren’t getting it right in terms of strategy, set-up, tactics in the way St Mirren have this year. Congratulations, that was my point.

 

I agree the squad is getting a better over time but we are lacking an identity on the park and that comes down in my opinion to the wrong managerial appointment.

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51 minutes ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:


Mate hardly gonna be on here if I’ve ran a football club, what a daft thing to start a comment with on Jambos Kickback! If you’re looking to debate an experienced professional in the field of running a football club you’re sorely mistaken in looking here.

 

You then go on to say that we aren’t getting it right in terms of strategy, set-up, tactics in the way St Mirren have this year. Congratulations, that was my point.

 

I agree the squad is getting a better over time but we are lacking an identity on the park and that comes down in my opinion to the wrong managerial appointment.

 

You started by saying "I think the footballing department have over complicated how to be successful at this level." If you've never run a club, how do you know how easy or hard it is? I think the majority of fans massively underestimate how difficult it is to run a football club.

 

You also completely miss my point about our opposition. It only takes one team out of 9 to pull it all together each season and get ahead/challenge us for us to have a bad season, where as we are 100% focused on only one club, Hearts. Now, we've got a bigger budget than most, so it's not quite that simple...we should be doing better. But all the other clubs are trying hard to improve and the gap from us to the bottom few teams, per player per week, isn't really that much. 

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I won’t be judging Naismith on the results this weekend. Been a marked improvement lately 

 

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Ricardo Quaresma
15 hours ago, Sooks said:

Sort of person who would rather we got beat and be proven correct than us win and him be wrong

 

Oh, I know, but is he a hibs mup or a pseudo-hibs mup?

 

Answer, of course, doesn't matter; looks like duck, quacks like duck, smells like duck, he's a duck

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Ricardo Quaresma
14 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

Saying someone that believes McAvoy was actually in charge for European matches….

 

Any chance of a coherent sentence?

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Ricardo Quaresma
15 hours ago, Dazo said:

I’d save your breath with that one and also enjoy the absence/silence from a few notable likeminded   😊 

 

I'll be fascinated to see if and how his reaction changes when we start doing better 😉

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3 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

I'll be fascinated to see if and how his reaction changes when we start doing better 😉


I’m going for bitter and looking for negatives after every victory. 😊

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15 hours ago, Dazo said:


I’d save your breath with that one and also enjoy the absence/silence from a few notable likeminded   😊 

McAvoy was in the dugout as normal on Wednesday, and is still part of the same team thats been in charge all season.  Thats realilty, and folks pretending otherwise are talking pish.

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Ricardo Quaresma
1 minute ago, Dazo said:

I’m going for bitter and looking for negatives after every victory. 😊

 

I see; well, should probably take your suggestion and pop him on ignore

 

I think he was before, but sometimes I turn it off again depending on the subject 🙂

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Ricardo Quaresma
3 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

McAvoy was in the dugout as normal on Wednesday, and is still part of the same team thats been in charge all season.  Thats realilty, and folks pretending otherwise are talking pish.

 

Really, so he had 100% control when FM was officially HC, officially responsible for line-up and tactics?

 

Really?

 

-

Edited by Ricardo Quaresma
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2 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Really, so he had 100% control when FM was officially HC, officially responsible for line-up and tactics?

 

Really?

 

-

yep.  you saying Naismith was lying when he said nothing had changed?  You pretending McAvoy wasn't in the dugout and involved on Wednesday?

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9 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

McAvoy was in the dugout as normal on Wednesday, and is still part of the same team thats been in charge all season.  Thats realilty, and folks pretending otherwise are talking pish.


Who is pretending otherwise? Are you just making stuff up to cause an argument ?

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2 minutes ago, Dazo said:


Who is pretending otherwise? Are you just making stuff up to cause an argument ?

 

read the post your responding to.

started with some boy claiming Naismith has a 4 wins 1 draw 1 loss record.  absolutely deluded 

Edited by HopeDiouf
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13 minutes ago, Dazo said:


I’m going for bitter and looking for negatives after every victory. 😊


Ah the old classic “ we lost the second half “ angle :lol: 

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1 hour ago, AlimOzturk said:

I won’t be judging Naismith on the results this weekend. Been a marked improvement lately 

 

Unfortunate to admit but I agree - if we win it's genuinely historic - we've never beat them at Hampden even under some of our best managers ever. Would love to start on Sunday but it's a free hit. Motherwell game is a different story.

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Ricardo Quaresma
12 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

yep.  you saying Naismith was lying when he said nothing had changed?  You pretending McAvoy wasn't in the dugout and involved on Wednesday?

 

What did you want him to say? "Thank **** Frankie's oot the wiy, he was a ******* pain in the arse!" when he still has to work with him?

 

Where was Naisy at Dundee? Where was Naisy in Norway? Slumped in a chair, all bent out of shape and frustrated at his lack of control over the team; there was this crap going on ever since after the first match in Perth, due to the predictable noise online and in the papers and I am sure the players weren't too happy with it; it definitely affected them

 

Ever been to work and your manager's manager starts giving you a task to do, then your manager comes back and says "Why have you not done this yet?"; you reply "Because he asked me to do that first instead" and the rammies start between them

 

Conflicting things like that ALWAYS happen, but basically, Naisy wasn't allowed to do what he IS doing now and it was visually obvious to us fans, particularly at the Euro home games

 

-

Edited by Ricardo Quaresma
* Frankie sp
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Just now, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

What did you want him to say? "Thank **** Franie's oot the wiy, he was a ******* pain in the arse!" when he still has to work with him?

 

Where was Naisy at Dundee? Where was Naisy in Norway? Slumped in a chair, all bent out of shape and frustrated at his lack of control over the team; there was this crap going on ever since after the first match in Perth, due to the predictable noise online and in the papers and I am sure the players weren't too happy with it; it definitely affected them

 

Ever been to work and your manager's manager starts giving you a task to do, then your manager comes back and says "Why have you not done this yet?"; you reply "Because he asked me to do that first instead" and the rammies start between them

 

Conflicting things like that ALWAYS happen, but basically, Naisy wasn't allowed to do what he IS doing now and it was visually obvious to us fans, particularly at the Euro home games


If that makes you feel better, keep pretending that.  Reality is, we've had the same team of 3 (Naismith, Forrest, Mcavoy) in charge all season and it's still the same 3 now.

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Ricardo Quaresma
Just now, HopeDiouf said:


If that makes you feel better, keep pretending that.  Reality is, we've had the same team of 3 (Naismith, Forrest, Mcavoy) in charge all season and it's still the same 3 now.

 

Yeah, in a quite different order, it's like you're arguing dipped headlights are the same as full beam

 

I'm out, see ya

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Just now, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Yeah, in a quite different order, it's like you're arguing dipped headlights are the same as full beam

 

I'm out, see ya


I'll also add, the 2 euro home games you quote, were probably our 2 best home performances of the season.  With, according to you, McAvoy in charge.

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Ricardo Quaresma
9 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

read the post your responding to.

started with some boy claiming Naismith has a 4 wins 1 draw 1 loss record.  absolutely deluded 

 

Since becoming HC, that is absolute fact

 

From the start of the season until before the Aberdeen game is a different discussion

 

Don't start with the deluded chat, that is pure fact

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Ricardo Quaresma
3 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

I'll also add, the 2 euro home games you quote, were probably our 2 best home performances of the season.  With, according to you, McAvoy in charge.

 

Yeah, the 2 where Naismith intervened, we saw it

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Just now, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Yeah, the 2 where Naismith intervened, we saw it

right.  

So to get this clear. 

McAvoy was in charge.  Except in the 2 euro home games where we played well, that was cause Naismith intervened.

But when we played the other games with McAvoy in charge, the ones that didn't go so well, Naismith chose to sit on his seat and not intervene?

Is that a fair summary?

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Ricardo Quaresma
Just now, HopeDiouf said:

right.  

So to get this clear. 

McAvoy was in charge.  Except in the 2 euro home games where we played well, that was cause Naismith intervened.

But when we played the other games with McAvoy in charge, the ones that didn't go so well, Naismith chose to sit on his seat and not intervene?

Is that a fair summary?

 

No, what I've stated is what I've stated, nothing more

 

We're done, go away

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Just now, Drylaw Hearts said:

Thinking Naismith wasn’t in control from the outset is  just head in the sand stuff.

 

 

indeed. quite the gymnastics required to try and maintain that position

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Just now, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

No, what I've stated is what I've stated, nothing more

 

We're done, go away

 

You're just making things up as you go :facepalm: 

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3 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

No, what I've stated is what I've stated, nothing more

 

We're done, go away

is that you noticing a few holes in your argument?

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Ricardo Quaresma
Just now, Bad Religion said:

You're just making things up as you go :facepalm: 

 

I'm not going to argue with you or @Drylaw Hearts

 

There was a change when Naismith became HC, the significance is open to debate, but it's definitely not 'nothing' and the results are better

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Drylaw Hearts
8 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

I'm not going to argue with you or @Drylaw Hearts

 

There was a change when Naismith became HC, the significance is open to debate, but it's definitely not 'nothing' and the results are better


I’ll play along……

 

Minus the European results….

 

McAvoy then had 3 domestic matches where his record was W1 D1 L1.

 

Naismiths record is W3 D1 L4.

 

Our win percentage is marginally better but our loss percentage is significantly worse at 50%.

 

 

Nothing has really changed as far as I’m concerned.

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, GinRummy said:

3-5-2 anyone?

 

Clark

 

Kingsley Kent Rowles

 

Offiah Nieuwenhof Beni  Cochrane 

Grant 

 

vargas Shanks. 

Thats probably my starting 11 for Sunday. Would have Vargas leading the line too. And please leave the laddie up for corners against. We need an outlet and a pressure release valve when we are up against it. Tell him just to retain possession and take it for a run. Stopping a constant bombardment needs balls and for us to try and hold onto possession in midfield and forward areas. We done it well first half against them before. Let's not sit in quite so much! 

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What’s funny is Naismith’s job is very much up for debate. There’s been flashes of improvement but there are still a lot of people who aren’t sold and rightly so, however if ( and a big if) he pulls it off on Sunday, he is one win v Aberdeen or Hibs away from becoming a the first manager to deliver the league cup since the 60s and a full blown club legend to boot 

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Ricardo Quaresma
22 minutes ago, Drylaw Hearts said:

I’ll play along……

 

Minus the European results….

 

McAvoy then had 3 domestic matches where his record was W1 D1 L1.

 

Naismiths record is W3 D1 L4.

 

Our win percentage is marginally better but our loss percentage is significantly worse at 50%.

 

 

Nothing has really changed as far as I’m concerned.

 

The 4-1-1 the guy was mentioning was non-OF results and was stated as such from the beginning

 

FM never fronted in the dugout against OF opposition

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Ricardo Quaresma
26 minutes ago, AC Mallin_51 said:

What’s funny is Naismith’s job is very much up for debate. There’s been flashes of improvement but there are still a lot of people who aren’t sold and rightly so, however if ( and a big if) he pulls it off on Sunday, he is one win v Aberdeen or Hibs away from becoming a the first manager to deliver the league cup since the 60s and a full blown club legend to boot 

 

What would've happened if RN won the Scottish? The mind boggles, but he'd have to have been called 'pure ledge', no? 😆

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2 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

What would've happened if RN won the Scottish? The mind boggles, but he'd have to have been called 'pure ledge', no? 😆


Cup winner as a player and a manager ? He would have been in a very small club indeed 

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Ricardo Quaresma
5 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Cup winner as a player and a manager ? He would have been in a very small club indeed 

 

For sure, JJ never won as both; I'm not sure anyone has achieved that

 

Anyway, we're 1 game away from a LC final, which if we get to, we'll have a great chance to win for the 1st time since 1960

 

I'm not much into the LC when we're blighted with injuries, but we're here now, it's the semi

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22 minutes ago, Sooks said:


Cup winner as a player and a manager ? He would have been in a very small club indeed 

Pretty sure it was said before the 2020 final on tv that he would have been the only person to do so at Hearts. Don’t know if that’s true or not 

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Ricardo Quaresma
14 minutes ago, AC Mallin_51 said:

Pretty sure it was said before the 2020 final on tv that he would have been the only person to do so at Hearts. Don’t know if that’s true or not 

 

I just had a look at Wiki and as I thought, Tommy Walker never won as a player, so you'd definitely have to go further back to to turn of the 20th and the cups before that

 

Actually, Tommy Walker won the League and LC, not the Scottish Cup as manager

 

Oops, yes he did, he won the 1956 SC

 

-

Edited by Ricardo Quaresma
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6 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

For sure, JJ never won as both; I'm not sure anyone has achieved that

 

Anyway, we're 1 game away from a LC final, which if we get to, we'll have a great chance to win for the 1st time since 1960

 

I'm not much into the LC when we're blighted with injuries, but we're here now, it's the semi

 

4 minutes ago, AC Mallin_51 said:

Pretty sure it was said before the 2020 final on tv that he would have been the only person to do so at Hearts. Don’t know if that’s true or not 


An even smaller club than I thought then . Our most successful manager of all time could not stake the same claim and he was a top player so yeah he would have been right out on his own I would imagine 

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1 hour ago, Drylaw Hearts said:

Thinking Naismith wasn’t in control from the outset is  just head in the sand stuff.

 

 

Exactly! 

 

Some of the latest posts on this topic are amongst the most delusional nonsense you'll ever read.

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1 hour ago, HopeDiouf said:

 

read the post your responding to.

started with some boy claiming Naismith has a 4 wins 1 draw 1 loss record.  absolutely deluded 


I don’t need to read it, maybe you do ? 
 

He made a statement using a snapshot of games. You brought other games and semantics about who was in charge during those games. Irrelevant to the statement the boy made. 
 

The merit of using such a snapshot is certainly up for debate but what he said was a fact. 

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Ricardo Quaresma
2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I don’t need to read it, maybe you do ? 
 

He made a statement using a snapshot of games. You brought other games and semantics about who was in charge during those games. Irrelevant to the statement the boy made
 

The merit of using such a snapshot is certainly up for debate but what he said was a fact. 

 

Nail on head

 

Since Aberdeen, 4 wins 1 draw and 1 loss

 

Aberdeen 2-0

Ross County 1-0

Kilmarnock 2-1

Livingston 1-0

 

Draw with wee team

 

Loss away to the midden

 

Non-OF results

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46 minutes ago, Sooks said:


Cup winner as a player and a manager ? He would have been in a very small club indeed 

A club of one I think. Can you call that a club or would he have just been on a pedestal by himself? 

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Just now, soonbe110 said:

A club of one I think. Can you call that a club or would he have just been on a pedestal by himself? 


He would have been deserving of a hell of a lot of praise and respect that is for sure . Sadly it still would not make up for 2016 for some :lol: 

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Ricardo Quaresma
1 hour ago, Sooks said:

An even smaller club than I thought then . Our most successful manager of all time could not stake the same claim and he was a top player so yeah he would have been right out on his own I would imagine 

 

Yeah, I must admit I didn't know Tommy Walker won the SC too, as Manager, despite seeing the 1956 final, as I posted it on another thread

 

But, in my defence, I never saw Tommy Walker in that clip

 

Never opened the Tommy Walker greatest manager thread either because I am pretty sure that's true

 

-

Edited by Ricardo Quaresma
added 'as Manager'
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1 minute ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Yeah, I must admit I didn't know Tommy Walker won the SC too, despite seeing the 1956 final, as I posted it on another thread

 

But, in my defence, I never saw Tommy Walker in that clip

 

Never opened the Tommy Walker greatest manager thread either because I am pretty sure that's true


It is a good thread tbf . Good reasoned and non abusive debate . It is actually about whether or not he is the greatest individual to play and manage  Hearts 

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Ricardo Quaresma
Just now, Sooks said:


It is a good thread tbf . Good reasoned and non abusive debate . It is actually about whether or not he is the greatest individual to play and manage  Hearts 

 

I haven't had too much time to post recently but I'll get round to it 👍

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13 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

I haven't had too much time to post recently but I'll get round to it 👍


Go easy ……….. some insufferable bore will follow you around like a love sick girl and obsess about how often you post :lol: 

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1 hour ago, Sooks said:

 


An even smaller club than I thought then . Our most successful manager of all time could not stake the same claim and he was a top player so yeah he would have been right out on his own I would imagine 

As I said if that is 100% true is up up for debate but I definitely remember they mentioned it on the BBC during the 2020 final. I think it was just the Scottish cup they were talking about not sure if a player has won the league cup as a player and manager 

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4 minutes ago, AC Mallin_51 said:

As I said if that is 100% true is up up for debate but I definitely remember they mentioned it on the BBC during the 2020 final. I think it was just the Scottish cup they were talking about not sure if a player has won the league cup as a player and manager 


I think it looks likely that it is true 

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