Should Naismith , Mcavoy and Forrest be sacked?

[Skacelsid]

Sunday will be analysed and players will be blamed for individual errors. It will not be tactics, system, setup. Naismith stated at the start of the season he wanted fullbacks/wingbacks to tuck in and that is exactly what they did, every goal on Sunday came as a result of Celtic's  players receiving the ball wide unopposed and were free to run riot. Naive coaching in the extreme. Sibbick and Cochrane abandoned defensive duties all game supposedly to be extra midfielders. Kent and Rowles were thrown under the bus. This shambolic coaching was exposed within a couple of minutes with no reaction from the dugout they cannot deal with the blatantly obvious. If  we cannot have an organised defensive base to build from we will struggle against all. Our main problems are not on the field. We stick to the system ("plan") whether it fails or not.

[Robbo-Jambo]

1 hour ago, Go for it 1308 said:

Haha ...i asked for that😂. 

Just trying to lighten the mood on here😬

Good luck with that !!

 

 

 

 

[Luckies1874]

1 hour ago, Dia Liom said:

For whatever reason, we decided to appoint a young manger with no experience beyond the lowland league. We all hope it will turn out better, but in all likelihood it will be a patchy season and we will do well to fight for 3rd.

 

Although I was hoping for an experienced manager when we sacked Bob, if we now sack Naismith for having a poor-to-mediocre start, it would show a total lack of belief in the daring, or daft, strategy we've gone for.  

 

I'm always hopeful. Praying to the gods of football that we pull off a shock league cup win. Otherwise we are in for an increasingly grim time of it over the next few months.

 

 

Given Robbie Neilson was sacked when finishing 3rd was eventually seen as being under threat (in reality at least 2 games after it should have happened) - evidence of which can be found throughout Andrew McKinlay press conference on April 11th (link below), why on earth would they settle for a "patchy season and do well to fight for 3rd", when action taken now would provide more than enough time, to give us a significantly better opportunity to finish in that all important spot.

 

Last seasons collapse was a disaster for the board, make no mistake about that as they believed we were going to be the beneficiaries of all 3 seasons (2022-23, 2023-24 and 2024-25) group stage European football. It was by far and away the overriding factor in the decision they made to bin RN. Given next season is the last that any Scottish team, out with Glasgow, will get the opportunity to play in the groups stage for the foreseeable, without further reconstruction of the formats, then this season is massive again in respect to finishing league position. They can't afford it to be Aberdeen 2 Hearts 1 or Aberdeen 1 Hearts 1 ANother 1. This would be complete failure given our place in the scheme of things in 2023.

 

Right now they may believe it is still too early to predict what will have happened by May but they have been mighty fortunate that nobody else looks very good either and therefore the field is bunched. But why take the risk of allowing more and more games to drift away, as they did in February and March, when admitting the error and making the change could galvanise everything now. Despite everything and having watched all the teams we still have the greatest depth and some of the best players outside of the big 2. We should still be finishing 3rd and I would be hugely confident of that if we had an experienced manager / head coach in charge. It is very very unlikely a team out with the Old Firm is winning the Scottish Cup (and if one does we should be favourites for it) so 3rd is the absolute be all and end all this season. Allowing us to have a "grim time" is totally unacceptable in that pursuit. 

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Do we actually need polls? It seems fact there will never be a manager that is popular.

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

Do we actually need polls? It seems fact there will never be a manager that is popular.

the only managerial candidate out there right now who’d unite the support would be Paulo. 
 

in 6 months once we’ve lost a few games 40 % of the board would be accusing the board of appointing him on the basis of past glories, and pointing out that his league record wasn’t actually that great and that there were no mitigating circumstances.

 

i have no idea what the answer is

[Bad Religion]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

the only managerial candidate out there right now who’d unite the support would be Paulo. 
 

in 6 months once we’ve lost a few games 40 % of the board would be accusing the board of appointing him on the basis of past glories, and pointing out that his league record wasn’t actually that great and that there were no mitigating circumstances.

 

i have no idea what the answer is

 

Stopping finding managers down the corridor would be a start.

[DalryJambo]

48 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

The management team, imo, is not a good one. That's an opinion based on what I've seen so far and my lack of belief in any future improvement.

 

We don't have time to wait 2/3 years for Naismith to develop. Why can't we appoint someone who has already developed elsewhere and is better prepared to be Hearts boss?

 

Other clubs with less resources seem to manage it.

 

As for the rest, I didn't say anything about clearing out half the squad. I think ours is fairly decent.

 

I didn't say anything about instantly beating or challenging the OF, either, DJ.

 

 

 

The last four paragraphs weren't really directed at you, rather the general mood of the thread/board. 

 

Every time we get beaten by Rangers or Celtic by 3 or 4 goals this place goes into meltdown.

 

We are nowhere near them in terms of budget, quality or squad depth, so why do people get so irrationally upset? 

 

Any appointment we make will be one of the following;

 

1) An emerging manager who's unproven at our level

2) A more experienced manager who's had a few failures.

3) A journeyman who's been around the block, mostly at a lower level in Scotland or England.

 

I see risk and potential fan dissatisfaction in all those options (people on here turn their noses up at the suggestion of some of the older managers who have managed in the English Premier League FFS!!) but I'd also say that all three options would still really need to be given 2-3 years to make their mark.

 

My questions are;

 

1) Are the squad behind SN & team and the approach they are advocating?

 

2) Is SN & team motivating the players to perform the way they want?

 

3) Is SN & team tactically aware enough to influence games?

 

If any of the questions are no, then are we as a club moving in a positive direction and making improvements in those areas?

 

I think the squad, baring the injuries we've had, is more than capable of getting 3 and once the players are all comfortable with each other then we'll see the benefit of backing the current management setup.

 

This all takes time and patience.

 

I think our biggest problem is that finishing 1st or 2nd is almost impossible, 3rd is our target and 4th is complete and utter failure (even mid-season) for most on here. That doesn't leave a new manager much room for error.

Edited October 25, 2023 by DalryJambo

[kingantti1874]

11 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Stopping finding managers down the corridor would be a start.

a bit of a myth that’s grown around that one. We didn’t find cathro or Stendel or neilson down the hall.  
 

thats not a problem in my eyes as long as it’s the right candidate. 
 

 

[Debut 4]

46 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

The management team, imo, is not a good one. That's an opinion based on what I've seen so far and my lack of belief in any future improvement.

 

We don't have time to wait 2/3 years for Naismith to develop. Why can't we appoint someone who has already developed elsewhere and is better prepared to be Hearts boss?

 

Other clubs with less resources seem to manage it.

 

As for the rest, I didn't say anything about clearing out half the squad. I think ours is fairly decent.

 

I didn't say anything about instantly beating or challenging the OF, either, DJ.

 

 

I’m not saying it’s a foolproof strategy but arguably our best manager in the last 25 years came from having a grounding in management and acquiring him on an upward curve.  I think I don’t need to name him.  

 

Even Craig Levein in his first spell came from having “done time” at Cowdenbeath and we got him after having a successful spell at them relative to their level.   
 

Experience can still fail of course but I think a support gives more leeway to someone who comes in with a track record because they’ll believe more that things can turn for the better of things don’t take off initially.
 

With us struggling to get going under Naismith people will quickly criticise why we went for an untried appointment.  

[martoon]

Just now, Debut 4 said:

I’m not saying it’s a foolproof strategy but arguably our best manager in the last 25 years came from having a grounding in management and acquiring him on an upward curve.  I think I don't need to name him.  

 

Even Craig Levein in his first spell came from having “done time” at Cowdenbeath and we got him after having a successful spell at them relative to their level.   
 

Experience can still fail of course but I think a support gives more leeway to someone who comes in with a track record because they’ll believe more that things can turn for the better of things don’t take off initially.
 

With us struggling to get going under Naismith people will quickly criticise why we went for an untried appointment.  

 

You don't, bud and JJ is a prime example of what we should be looking at. Levein, first time around, was a sound appointment after what he did at Cowdenbeath.

 

That's the way it has to be done.

 

Not always, and certainly no guarantee of, a success but a better chance of it than what we have now.

 

As I posted earlier on the thread, the high heid yins in the boardroom is where our problems really lie. 

 

Football wise, decision makers of excruciating incompetence.

 

 

[martoon]

23 minutes ago, DalryJambo said:

 

The last four paragraphs weren’t really directed at you, rather the general mood of the thread/board. 

 

Every time we get beaten by Rangers or Celtic by 3 or 4 goals this place goes into meltdown.

 

We are nowhere near them in terms of budget, quality or squad depth, so why do people get so irrationally upset? 

 

Any appointment we make will be one of the following;

 

1) An emerging manager who's unproven at our level

2) A more experienced manager who's had a few failures.

3) A journeyman who's been around the block, mostly at a lower level in Scotland or England.

 

I see risk and potential fan dissatisfaction in all those options (people on here turn their noses up at the suggestion of some of the older managers who have managed in the English Premier League FFS!!) but I'd also say that all three options would still really need to be given 2-3 years to make their mark.

 

My questions are;

 

1) Are the squad behind SN & team and the approach they are advocating?

 

2) Is SN & team motivating the players to perform the way they want?

 

3) Is SN & team tactically aware enough to influence games?

 

If any of the questions are no, then are we as a club moving in a positive direction and making improvements in those areas?

 

I think the squad, baring the injuries we've had, is more than capable of getting 3 and once the players are all comfortable with each other then we'll see the benefit of backing the current management setup.

 

This all takes time and patience.

 

I think our biggest problem is that finishing 1st or 2nd is almost impossible, 3rd is our target and 4th is complete and utter failure (even mid-season) for most on here. That doesn't leave a new manager much room for error.

 

Apart from the first sentence that was the entire post. 😄

 

At least you've made me chuckle, DJ. I'm very much in the doldrums with Hearts at the moment.

[Bongo 1874]

37 minutes ago, DalryJambo said:

 

The last four paragraphs weren't really directed at you, rather the general mood of the thread/board. 

 

Every time we get beaten by Rangers or Celtic by 3 or 4 goals this place goes into meltdown.

 

We are nowhere near them in terms of budget, quality or squad depth, so why do people get so irrationally upset? 

 

Any appointment we make will be one of the following;

 

1) An emerging manager who's unproven at our level

2) A more experienced manager who's had a few failures.

3) A journeyman who's been around the block, mostly at a lower level in Scotland or England.

 

I see risk and potential fan dissatisfaction in all those options (people on here turn their noses up at the suggestion of some of the older managers who have managed in the English Premier League FFS!!) but I'd also say that all three options would still really need to be given 2-3 years to make their mark.

 

My questions are;

 

1) Are the squad behind SN & team and the approach they are advocating?

 

2) Is SN & team motivating the players to perform the way they want?

 

3) Is SN & team tactically aware enough to influence games?

 

If any of the questions are no, then are we as a club moving in a positive direction and making improvements in those areas?

 

I think the squad, baring the injuries we've had, is more than capable of getting 3 and once the players are all comfortable with each other then we'll see the benefit of backing the current management setup.

 

This all takes time and patience.

 

I think our biggest problem is that finishing 1st or 2nd is almost impossible, 3rd is our target and 4th is complete and utter failure (even mid-season) for most on here. That doesn't leave a new manager much room for error.

I think another thing that's need to be asked is why are the same problems,still present from when we had a different DOF.

 

It's like there hasn't been much change, player recruitment deserves to be judged,when you come out with big claims and they don't happen,you will be judged.

[DalryJambo]

6 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Apart from the first sentence that was the entire post. 😄

 

At least you've made me chuckle, DJ. I'm very much in the doldrums with Hearts at the moment.

 

People need to become less result focused. Its just a game. I can't get to games and I really miss it. I just wish I could roll the clock back 20 years and the old match day routine. Meet my mates at 12 in the pub. Watch a lunch time game, go to Tynecastle for the match, have a few more beers afterwards then walk home just round the corner from the ground. We lost and drew more than we won in those days and it didn't impact the day that much.

 

My weekends are now ferrying kids here, there and everywhere.

 

 

 

 

[wavydavy]

3 hours ago, DalryJambo said:

 

So, and this is a question rather than an argument, are you saying you 100% know that Naismith wanted more new players, but he feels the options given to him aren't suitable? Could his lack of experience mean he has a lack of contacts in the game? 

 

If any manager isn't strong enough to say, 'player x is no better than what we have, so let's not bother',  then that's not great. However in terms of depth of squad I understand that there are 2 approaches;

 

You can get soneone in who will be the 100% first choice and better than you currently have, and your current starter becomes the depth.

 

Or

 

Given availability or budget you get someone of the same or slightly lower standard and aim to coach both players to become better, with the ambition that overall the position will be slightly stronger within a few months/season. This assumes the player coming in is only better than the original backup.

 

I don't 100% know anything more than anyone else about what Naismith wanted. But based on what he said at the end of last season it seemed that he wanted to strengthen certain areas of the squad.

 

Obviously like every club we have to shop within our price range but I would question the sort of players that are being offered to him to sign.

 

With the exception of Kent we seem to be looking further afield for players and that makes it diffcult for Naismith to judge how good a player is based purely on stats and videos because that is the reality of how things are done.

 

Ok I know that stats are maybe a good way of identifying potential targets but nothing beats a manager being able to see a player in live games to make a judgement call on them and I don't think that is happening.

 

We are being told that we are looking further afield for players now because these markets such as Australia are cheaper than elsewhere but are they better?

[karipidis]

Its staring us in the face, but Hearts just need to go out and get Robinson. Think what you want about style etc but the St Mirren fans are very happy with the style and with a bigger budget there's no reason he cant make us hard to beat and also an attacking threat. 

[Drylaw Hearts]

57 minutes ago, karipidis said:

Its staring us in the face, but Hearts just need to go out and get Robinson. Think what you want about style etc but the St Mirren fans are very happy with the style and with a bigger budget there's no reason he cant make us hard to beat and also an attacking threat. 

Yep.

 

I often wonder if his appearance in court on a Domestic Abuse charge has made him a non starter for the softies upstairs at the club.

 

He was a far better option than the hugely under qualified Naismith.

[Dia Liom]

5 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

Given Robbie Neilson was sacked when finishing 3rd was eventually seen as being under threat (in reality at least 2 games after it should have happened) - evidence of which can be found throughout Andrew McKinlay press conference on April 11th (link below), why on earth would they settle for a "patchy season and do well to fight for 3rd", when action taken now would provide more than enough time, to give us a significantly better opportunity to finish in that all important spot.

What you say might be correct. Personally though it's hard to see the logic in appointing someone with no track record and expecting it to go work without any problems. In my time, we've appointed two rookie managers and had polar opposite results: Robbie and Cathro. But in both cases, we were clearly prepared to give them a decent run at it, and surely were allowing for some bedding in period -- a fact w/r/t Cathro, but Robbie did so well we will never know.

 

Re the comments from the club. They are always going to say what the fans want to hear. To rephrase my post slightly, in a way I'd be more worried if we had appointed Naismith with the absolute minimum target of getting 3rd. It's more palatable that we accepted SN as the best option (due to lack of options or budget or whatever), and have adjusted expectations accordingly. Anyhow, if things don't pick up we will find out one way or the other.

[kingantti1874]

Robinson! how about when he lost 10 games in a row at Motherwell, over when he picked up 0.86 points per game in his entire career at the mighty morcambe.

 

id take him, but I do laugh at how we missed this certain bet.

 

The reality is the very same poster moaning about Naismith would have been moaning about Robinson had we appointed him directly from Morcambe and if we had appointed him in the summer 

[karipidis]

18 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Robinson! how about when he lost 10 games in a row at Motherwell, over when he picked up 0.86 points per game in his entire career at the mighty morcambe.

 

id take him, but I do laugh at how we missed this certain bet.

 

The reality is the very same poster moaning about Naismith would have been moaning about Robinson had we appointed him directly from Morcambe and if we had appointed him in the summer 

Would not have been moaning if we got him in the summer. Let’s not pretend he did not do an excellent job at Motherwell. 

[kingantti1874]

11 minutes ago, karipidis said:

Would not have been moaning if we got him in the summer. Let’s not pretend he did not do an excellent job at Motherwell. 

I’ll take you at your word but there is zero doubt in my mind this board would have gone nuts.
 

He left Motherwell after a record breaking losing streak, then went to Morcambe and failed miserably.  
 

This aside - he did alright with st Mirren last season, not spectacular - all right.  . A short 9 game purple patch this season seems to have  quite a lot of hearts fans getting all moist.  Aberdeen fans felt the same when they took Jim Goodwin.

 

the very Same hearts fans will be the first to demand his head if we signed him and didn’t perform well In his first 9 games.  These will be the reasons

1. doing well at stmirren proves nothing 

2. we hired him on the basis of 9 games

3. he’s never managed a team expected to play attacking football

4. the board don’t look far enough outside the league

 

 

yada yada yada. 

Im not saying I wouldn’t take him, merely predicting the outcome if we do and it does t immediately go perfectly 

Edited October 25, 2023 by kingantti1874

[Skippy Doodle]

5 hours ago, karipidis said:

Its staring us in the face, but Hearts just need to go out and get Robinson. Think what you want about style etc but the St Mirren fans are very happy with the style and with a bigger budget there's no reason he cant make us hard to beat and also an attacking threat. 

The issue with Robinson or someone of his ilk is that they would need to adopt a different approach at Hearts as their style is based on counter attack football. The problem Naismith has is not out of posession (which bar Sunday has improved this season) it’s dealing against a low block set up

 

nothing about Robinson suggests he could remedy that

[Kyle1874]

5 hours ago, karipidis said:

It’s staring us in the face, but Hearts just need to go out and get Robinson. Think what you want about style etc but the St Mirren fans are very happy with the style and with a bigger budget there's no reason he cant make us hard to beat and also an attacking threat. 

listed to Robinson a few times and to be honest I really like how he comes across his ability to adapt to the players he inherits and then the ability to go out and strengthen the team with only one scout at his disposal if I am correct is very impressive 

 

long and short would take him 

[Dazo]

8 hours ago, Skippy Doodle said:

The issue with Robinson or someone of his ilk is that they would need to adopt a different approach at Hearts as their style is based on counter attack football. The problem Naismith has is not out of posession (which bar Sunday has improved this season) it’s dealing against a low block set up

 

nothing about Robinson suggests he could remedy that

I would also had the weight of expectation is hugely different to anything he will have experienced. That pressure can cause people to change and ultimately fail when things get tough. Not saying he will but he hasn’t had to deal with the expectation of winning every week and a crowed not shy in booing the **** out of the team. 

[soonbe110]

16 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

the only managerial candidate out there right now who’d unite the support would be Paulo. 
 

in 6 months once we’ve lost a few games 40 % of the board would be accusing the board of appointing him on the basis of past glories, and pointing out that his league record wasn’t actually that great and that there were no mitigating circumstances.

 

i have no idea what the answer is

I don’t believe he would.  Think you are correct that after a few games with the wrong results we would be just as split as we are now. The football during Sergio’s season was largely eye-bleeding, a few great performances covered a whole lot of trash. Yes he had a number of issues to deal  with but his year is largely based on a final against a Hibs team stuffed full of loan players who were probably one of the poorest Hibs teams I have seen. 
 

In terms of candidates it’s hard to come up with names when not knowing who might be interested (that’s Savage and McKinlays job).  If we accept that our level is third in Scotland, euro Conf every year for the next few years then in terms of names that would be pretty certain of achieving that based on their previous experience McInnes stands out. In terms of managers that could be available and would probably want the job O’Neill is another name. He must be realising that his second stint at NI isn’t going to work out and his record at Stoke is similar to the man everyone seems to want, Neil. If indeed the rumours re Wilder are true and that a deal was done in the summer  if we removed Savage then that’s a third real possibility.  I think I’d be ok with any of those three and I think the likelihood of success (within our parameters) is pretty high with all three. 

[DalryJambo]

9 hours ago, Skippy Doodle said:

The issue with Robinson or someone of his ilk is that they would need to adopt a different approach at Hearts as their style is based on counter attack football. The problem Naismith has is not out of posession (which bar Sunday has improved this season) it’s dealing against a low block set up

 

nothing about Robinson suggests he could remedy that

 

By low block do you mean the opposition sitting in deep and hitting on the counter attack? If so this is always going to be our challenge at Tynecastle given how narrow the pitch is. Teams will sit in, give us the ball and hit us on the counter attack/exploit a mistake.

 

You are 100% correct this is the problem we have. I'm not sure how you counter it tbh as it's relatively easy, and plays into the strengths of most teams I'm the league ie sit in, get the crowd against us, pump in long/clear and hit us on the break.  Paulo Sergio and Lazlo tried to get the team to pass it about the back to draw the other team out and that gave everyone a heart attack. JJ used wing backs and wingers, but given the fitness of fears now I'm not sure that would work as well. The crowd doesn't help either as they turn quickly if things aren't going our way and everyone's expectations are 3rd is the be all and end all.

 

I genuinely feel we're in a position now where its almost impossible for any manager to come in and hit the heights of fan expectation within any reasonable tine frame.

[kingantti1874]

Wilder was a done deal on the basis we remove savage? Cmon that’s plain fantasy, presumably invented by those who have now turned their eye toward savage. Was that deal negotiated behind Savage back by McKinlay? Not directed at you mate but I do find it utterly tragic that hearts fans go as far as outright lies to fit an agenda. 
 

Michael O’Neil - would have taken at one point without doubt. He didn’t do well at stoke and didn’t back it an NI so his stock is pretty low.

 

Alex Neil, I’d take without doubt.  Probably becuase I’ve personally seen a. Few of his team and like the cut of his jib.  Would cost near a million a season I’d guess.

 

tbh. I don’t have any answers.  I’ve given up trying 

[DalryJambo]

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Wilder was a done deal on the basis we remove savage? Cmon that’s plain fantasy, presumably invented by those who have now turned their eye toward savage. Was that deal negotiated behind Savage back by McKinlay? Not directed at you mate but I do find it utterly tragic that hearts fans go as far as outright lies to fit an agenda. 
 

Michael O’Neil - would have taken at one point without doubt. He didn’t do well at stoke and didn’t back it an NI so his stock is pretty low.

 

Alex Neil, I’d take without doubt.  Probably becuase I’ve personally seen a. Few of his team and like the cut of his jib.  Would cost near a million a season I’d guess.

 

tbh. I don’t have any answers.  I’ve given up trying 

 

If that's the case re Wilder, then I'm glad he wasn't brought in. In this day and age a prospective manager asking for a DoF to be removed is nonsense. I would however happily support a new manager in clearing out the assistant coaches etc if they had their own team. 

 

In time if/when they prove themselves, settle in and get to know everyone at the club, I'd fully expect them to provide feedback to the board, CEO or Chairman etc as to the footballing setup etc and areas for improvement.

 

If that included difficult conversations about the DoF then that feedback should be heard.

 

Blindly accepting the conditions of a prospective manager, who could be gone with 6 months, involving the restructure of the entire footballing side of the club is a recipe for disaster.

[Hashimoto]

15 hours ago, karipidis said:

Its staring us in the face, but Hearts just need to go out and get Robinson. Think what you want about style etc but the St Mirren fans are very happy with the style and with a bigger budget there's no reason he cant make us hard to beat and also an attacking threat. 

Naw, get away from the Scottish theme. Get a manager untainted by previous Hearts, SPFL experience. You have to ask why in recent times the OF never appoint Scottish managers.
Plenty good European coaches / managers who would love the opportunity to take over at Hearts.
Just not confident I could trust our board of directors to get out of their easy chair to do the hard miles to get one in!

Edited October 26, 2023 by Hashimoto

[Boab]

2 hours ago, Dazo said:

I would also had the weight of expectation is hugely different to anything he will have experienced. That pressure can cause people to change and ultimately fail when things get tough. Not saying he will but he hasn’t had to deal with the expectation of winning every week and a crowed not shy in booing the **** out of the team. 

I agree mostly, D, but St Mirren fans could win awards for being moaning-faced critters ! 
He must be doing something right to stem that however.

[soonbe110]

40 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Wilder was a done deal on the basis we remove savage? Cmon that’s plain fantasy, presumably invented by those who have now turned their eye toward savage. Was that deal negotiated behind Savage back by McKinlay? Not directed at you mate but I do find it utterly tragic that hearts fans go as far as outright lies to fit an agenda. 
 

Michael O’Neil - would have taken at one point without doubt. He didn’t do well at stoke and didn’t back it an NI so his stock is pretty low.

 

Alex Neil, I’d take without doubt.  Probably becuase I’ve personally seen a. Few of his team and like the cut of his jib.  Would cost near a million a season I’d guess.

 

tbh. I don’t have any answers.  I’ve given up trying 

Presume you replied to me?  Yes I was surprised by the post yesterday suggesting it was a done deal. May not have been a done deal just a deal breaker with Wilder IF we noted interest. Could have been in preliminary contact. Who knows? 

[Skippy Doodle]

47 minutes ago, DalryJambo said:

 

By low block do you mean the opposition sitting in deep and hitting on the counter attack? If so this is always going to be our challenge at Tynecastle given how narrow the pitch is. Teams will sit in, give us the ball and hit us on the counter attack/exploit a mistake.

 

You are 100% correct this is the problem we have. I'm not sure how you counter it tbh as it's relatively easy, and plays into the strengths of most teams I'm the league ie sit in, get the crowd against us, pump in long/clear and hit us on the break.  Paulo Sergio and Lazlo tried to get the team to pass it about the back to draw the other team out and that gave everyone a heart attack. JJ used wing backs and wingers, but given the fitness of fears now I'm not sure that would work as well. The crowd doesn't help either as they turn quickly if things aren't going our way and everyone's expectations are 3rd is the be all and end all.

 

I genuinely feel we're in a position now where its almost impossible for any manager to come in and hit the heights of fan expectation within any reasonable tine frame.

Drawing teams out is the right way and we were successfull with this when we had the back 3 and ball playing centre half’s but recruitment since losing Souttar and Halkett has been poor in this regard. 

[Skippy Doodle]

49 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Wilder was a done deal on the basis we remove savage? Cmon that’s plain fantasy, presumably invented by those who have now turned their eye toward savage. Was that deal negotiated behind Savage back by McKinlay? Not directed at you mate but I do find it utterly tragic that hearts fans go as far as outright lies to fit an agenda. 
 

Michael O’Neil - would have taken at one point without doubt. He didn’t do well at stoke and didn’t back it an NI so his stock is pretty low.

 

Alex Neil, I’d take without doubt.  Probably becuase I’ve personally seen a. Few of his team and like the cut of his jib.  Would cost near a million a season I’d guess.

 

tbh. I don’t have any answers.  I’ve given up trying 

Yeah I think people are taking the stories about Wilders response if he was ever to be offered a job and running away with it

 

the savage issue is a tough one. I agree that you can’t just rip up a structure given that managers shelf life is so unpredictable these days but on the flip side I’m not convinced that this structure is achieving a lot

 

we are seldom seeing anyone break through and have yet to sell anyone for a profit - I would have thought this would be two metrics that a DOF is measured on

[karipidis]

10 hours ago, Skippy Doodle said:

The issue with Robinson or someone of his ilk is that they would need to adopt a different approach at Hearts as their style is based on counter attack football. The problem Naismith has is not out of posession (which bar Sunday has improved this season) it’s dealing against a low block set up

 

nothing about Robinson suggests he could remedy that

He still had a very good record at home last season, and a number of teams will still have gone to St Mirren with a defensive shape. I get your point but he has shown he can be adaptable and think he has earned the right to be given an opportunity. 

[Skippy Doodle]

8 minutes ago, karipidis said:

He still had a very good record at home last season, and a number of teams will still have gone to St Mirren with a defensive shape. I get your point but he has shown he can be adaptable and think he has earned the right to be given an opportunity. 

Fair enough but I don’t believe it’s an appointment that would appease a lot of fans. 
 

look at Goodwin with Aberdeen. Hired off the back of a decent spell but it’s risky hiring from our league as managers stock fluctuates very quickly

[karipidis]

6 minutes ago, Skippy Doodle said:

Fair enough but I don’t believe it’s an appointment that would appease a lot of fans. 
 

look at Goodwin with Aberdeen. Hired off the back of a decent spell but it’s risky hiring from our league as managers stock fluctuates very quickly

I don’t think any appointment would appease our fan base 🤣 ‘Peps style is too possession based’ 

 

I do get your point regarding Goodwin, as there has been occasions where fans have clamoured for Archibald, Wright, Davidson etc. However, I think there is a much larger sample size with Robinson with the success at Motherwell and St Mirren, but also appreciate it wouldn’t be universally popular. 

[Dazo]

49 minutes ago, Boab said:

I agree mostly, D, but St Mirren fans could win awards for being moaning-faced critters ! 
He must be doing something right to stem that however.

Oh he’s definitely doing well and over achieving and wouldn’t be moaning if he was out next manager. I just think you can’t ignore the expectation level of the two clubs. 

[Ray Gin]

We should be actively looking at options behind the scenes, ready to pull the trigger unless he manages decent results against the huns and Livi.

 

 

 

 

[OTT]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

We should be actively looking at options behind the scenes, ready to pull the trigger unless he manages decent results against the huns and Livi.

 

 

 

 

 

Yep. Aberdeen for me set the tone about this sort of thing last season. Goodwin had them dead and buried form wise and Robson came in and somehow got them third - largely because he had sufficient time to turn them around (and a freak result against the orcs). 

 

Better to act sooner than later. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by OTT

[Skippy Doodle]

4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

We should be actively looking at options behind the scenes, ready to pull the trigger unless he manages decent results against the huns and Livi.

 

 

 

 

Well we were assured that the club has a succession plan by our CEO back in April

 

not sure knocking in the door of the office down the corridor is a succession plan mind you

[soonbe110]

51 minutes ago, Skippy Doodle said:

Yeah I think people are taking the stories about Wilders response if he was ever to be offered a job and running away with it

 

the savage issue is a tough one. I agree that you can’t just rip up a structure given that managers shelf life is so unpredictable these days but on the flip side I’m not convinced that this structure is achieving a lot

 

we are seldom seeing anyone break through and have yet to sell anyone for a profit - I would have thought this would be two metrics that a DOF is measured on

You can make a strong argument that says that other than the first 2/3 seasons after Admin the DoF/SD role just hasn’t been successful.  Worked great with Levein at first and Neilson in his first spell.  Hasn’t really been successful since.  Several managers and countless dud players signed. 
Wilder probably would want complete control over signings and he already has a huge network of contacts in what should be our primary source for players ie England. 

[soonbe110]

35 minutes ago, Skippy Doodle said:

Fair enough but I don’t believe it’s an appointment that would appease a lot of fans. 
 

look at Goodwin with Aberdeen. Hired off the back of a decent spell but it’s risky hiring from our league as managers stock fluctuates very quickly

Robinsons record against OF is much worse than most we have had.  Think he has won once against each in his management career.  If he was seen as someone with potential he would already be NI manager. Ultimately failed at Motherwell, Morecambe, done a decent job so far in Paisley but it’s very early days. He isn’t our calibre of manager imo 

[Skacelsid]

McInnes, Robinson style? Can anyone say what we are seeing just now is entertaining. We are now fodder for any team in this league and in reality no better than any of them. I would take any of those two in a heartbeat at this time. We need to be fitter, faster, organised at the back and yes harder to beat. That is the platform for results and yes more entertaining football. Would maybe even keep Naismith as a No2 and show the rest the door.

[Skippy Doodle]

22 minutes ago, Skacelsid said:

McInnes, Robinson style? Can anyone say what we are seeing just now is entertaining. We are now fodder for any team in this league and in reality no better than any of them. I would take any of those two in a heartbeat at this time. We need to be fitter, faster, organised at the back and yes harder to beat. That is the platform for results and yes more entertaining football. Would maybe even keep Naismith as a No2 and show the rest the door.

Our defensive record (bar Sunday)and stats out of possession this season ARE strong - the issue is in possession which both McInnes & Robinson would struggle to improve given their own styles and strengths

[Bazzas right boot]

43 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Robinsons record against OF is much worse than most we have had.  Think he has won once against each in his management career.  If he was seen as someone with potential he would already be NI manager. Ultimately failed at Motherwell, Morecambe, done a decent job so far in Paisley but it’s very early days. He isn’t our calibre of manager imo 

 

 

He's not really got  the "next level"  vibe that many want.

[HopeDiouf]

1 hour ago, Skippy Doodle said:

Our defensive record (bar Sunday)and stats out of possession this season ARE strong - the issue is in possession which both McInnes & Robinson would struggle to improve given their own styles and strengths

Come the end of first round of fixtures, once weve had our pumping from the huns, the myth about us having a good defensive record will be gone.

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

He's not really got  the "next level"  vibe that many want.

A 9 game purple patch negates his entire previous career.  Or at least the bad bits 

[Ex member of the SaS]

The simple answer is no manager will be sacked after a defeat from the bigot twins. However the board should not be looking at one result but the over all situation with regards to performances and over all results.

 

Ps the management by committee we have at present is not working and never will 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Ex member of the SaS

[Ex member of the SaS]

2 hours ago, Skacelsid said:

McInnes, Robinson style? Can anyone say what we are seeing just now is entertaining. We are now fodder for any team in this league and in reality no better than any of them. I would take any of those two in a heartbeat at this time. We need to be fitter, faster, organised at the back and yes harder to beat. That is the platform for results and yes more entertaining football. Would maybe even keep Naismith as a No2 and show the rest the door.

We should not be looking at the Scottish merry go round. We should have higher expectations.

[Thunder and Lightning]

Didn't we finish 2nd in 05/06?

 

So it's unlikely, but not impossible to do so.

[Skippy Doodle]

1 hour ago, HopeDiouf said:

Come the end of first round of fixtures, once weve had our pumping from the huns, the myth about us having a good defensive record will be gone.

We can only deal with the facts in front of us at the moment. We had the joint best defensive record prior to Sunday and yes it may look very different next week