Should Steven Naismith be sacked? ( merged )

[the posh bit]

7 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Happy clapper 

 

😁 😁 😁 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

2 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Decent post.  No need to elaborate on your point.

 

What I will do is draw in a similar point about us not being able to get a ball playing midfielder because they cost money 😤( similar to the excuse we can’t get a decent , experienced manager)……Slattery of Motherwell, particularly in the first half, passed and probed for them, causing us all sorts of problems.  
 

It’s like the club and many fans have talked themselves into these situations and believe it.  Not saying he’s some sort of player above his level, but I’m not having we can’t find someone competent in possession to come in and give us more control in that area.  

Totally agree. All of a sudden Hearts don’t have the cash or draw to get a midfielder that can put his foot on the ball and play a forward pass.

 

Incredulous at some takes since Naismith was appointed and all the efforts to defend Savage - now starting to disintegrate somewhat.

[By The Light..]

Yes, I was a supporter of him getting the job but nothings changed except Ginelly is away and we turned to sh!t, can't see us beating anyone Rosenburg was fluke

[Dagger Is Back]

12 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Wait until we’re adrift at the bottom first…it’s got the last few weeks of Neilson written all over it.

It's not looking very encouraging at all and I hear you. I hear what folks are saying about the tail end of last season but I feel that has to be discounted given the mess we were in. It's this season I'm bothered about and despite the fact we're shy on the points total we should have, I just think we've got to give him some time. The next four games following the international break, leading up to the Hibs game will probably help me see things a bit more clearly. 

11 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Kind of where I am too, except without the "far". He should be given a fair crack at the whip, unless performances and results continue to be abysmal in the short term.

I get you but I guess we've all got a different view on what is a fair crack of the whip. Aberdeen, Killie, Ross Cty and St Mirren will shape my thinking.

 

Here's hoping that in four weeks time we're having an entirely different conversation 🤞

 

 

[micole]

He is talking about bravery ect.....heres a thought. How about leaving a couple of players up when the opposition get a corner....not feckin rocket science, be positive and have an out ball....😡😡

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The most obvious Hibs fans on here are the absolute dangers who try to defend shite state of affairs and maintain our under-performance. You know who you are.

That’s a posh post.

[ramrod]

We seem to be a project club for managers and players,  tells you that the board have no idea what it takes to succeed in Scottish football.

Cathro, McPhee, Naismith all projects. 

Oda, Tagawa, Vargas, Lowry , Nuenhoff of the current signings all projects, not one anywhere near suitable for the Scottish game as it stands.

5 year contract for another project in Rowles.

Whoever appointed Neilson /McEvoy needs to step in now, admit they got it wrong, and remove them from their positions along with Forrest.

They also need to be looking at Savage and Lancefield as the signing policy from the outside looks flawed .

 

[S Form]

Steven Naismith isn’t going to be sacked in the first week of September. That would be acting too quickly. I reckon he’ll get at least one round of fixtures. If we’re still as shite at that point then he’ll be shown the door. 

[AC Mallin_51]

10 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

 

He needs more time. We got into this mess by the people making decisions reacting to hysterical muppets. We shouldn't be making similarly bad decisions. 

The bad decision has already been made by appointing a rookie manager 

[Arry]

5 minutes ago, micole said:

He is talking about bravery ect.....heres a thought. How about leaving a couple of players up when the opposition get a corner....not feckin rocket science, be positive and have an out ball....😡😡

Been saying that since Craig Levein. Does ma nut in. Also how about throw ins or corners being practiced. How many corners today? and nothing to show from them.

[MarkDevriesScores4]

Think naismavoy has about a 27% win rate. That’s not acceptable at hearts I’m afraid. 

[Agentjambo]

2 minutes ago, S Form said:

Steven Naismith isn’t going to be sacked in the first week of September. That would be acting too quickly. I reckon he’ll get at least one round of fixtures. If we’re still as shite at that point then he’ll be shown the door. 

When it’s too late.

[TallPaul]

Mate of mine telling me he got booted off kickback back in June for suggesting this was a disastrous appointment, unambitious and cheap by the board. Accused of being a troll.....

[S Form]

4 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

When it’s too late.

Perhaps, but I don’t believe the board will pull the trigger this early.

[Armageddon]

Was this like a 30 minute poll set up the second the game finished?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

20 minutes ago, micole said:

He is talking about bravery ect.....heres a thought. How about leaving a couple of players up when the opposition get a corner....not feckin rocket science, be positive and have an out ball....😡😡

the sort of cliched drivel talentless coaches come out with. Naitalent does not have a clue and is another one who is thieving a living from us

[The Merse]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

the sort of cliched drivel talentless coaches come out with. Naitalent does not have a clue and is another one who is thieving a living from us

Barring about a 4/5 month period he stole a living whilst playing for us too.

 

Be happy to be rid once and for all tbh.

[merrymac]

25 minutes ago, micole said:

He is talking about bravery ect.....heres a thought. How about leaving a couple of players up when the opposition get a corner....not feckin rocket science, be positive and have an out ball....😡😡

Never catch on mate far too sensible, noticed Well left a man up at all of our corners

What do they know that we don't ???

[Kendoll]

During the game today, I must have used the word "predicatable" around 30 times to my brother in law. Teams have us sussed out and there's absolutely no plan B. There's nothing wrong with some early long balls, not when there's 5 mins to go. Same pish every time. Devlin to Kent, to Rowles, to Kent, to Atkinson every time (barely down the other side). Either a run inside or a ball to Oda, and it breaks down. If it does progress further, Motherwell (or any other team we play) are well organised for what comes into the box. Dull, boring, unfruitful and, ultimately, predictable. 

[GorgieFifeLife]

18 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

When it’s too late.

Exactly.  Season could be over by then unless we are fighting relegation that is.

[Neverforgetfiveone]

30 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Totally agree. All of a sudden Hearts don’t have the cash or draw to get a midfielder that can put his foot on the ball and play a forward pass.

 

Incredulous at some takes since Naismith was appointed and all the efforts to defend Savage - now starting to disintegrate somewhat.

100% agree - were told this BS about how we can’t do this or that in the transfer market but we’re getting beat of guys on 750 quid a week?? 
 

Utter dog S**t…. For me its simple:

 

Board - grow a pair and employ a manager with experience who knows what he’s doing!! FFS - it’s not difficult

[Ari Gold]

30 minutes ago, micole said:

He is talking about bravery ect.....heres a thought. How about leaving a couple of players up when the opposition get a corner....not feckin rocket science, be positive and have an out ball....😡😡

In fairness, our defensive record from corners has certainly improved. I can only think that why we bring everyone back.

[AC Mallin_51]

31 minutes ago, By The Light.. said:

Yes, I was a supporter of him getting the job but nothings changed except Ginelly is away and we turned to sh!t, can't see us beating anyone Rosenburg was fluke

Think what helped was rosenborg actually tried to play. When we come up against teams who dig in we’re absolutely clueless. Which is worrying considering half the league will do it

[the posh bit]

17 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Mate of mine telling me he got booted off kickback back in June for suggesting this was a disastrous appointment, unambitious and cheap by the board. Accused of being a troll.....

 

Loads of people, myself included, thought it was a huge, cheap gamble. But there has been signs of things looking good. He should be given more time. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

7 minutes ago, The Merse said:

Barring about a 4/5 month period he stole a living whilst playing for us too.

 

Be happy to be rid once and for all tbh.

Mind when he turned up in August half fit because he wanted his Norwich pay off?

 

Slaphead 

[Jeffros Furios]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Well try and stop being one.

Quote

 

[jr ewing]

We're wasting time ⏲️ 

[The Merse]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Mind when he turned up in August half fit because he wanted his Norwich pay off?

 

Slaphead 

Reality is he only got a coaching gig with us because some ****head gave him a 4 year deal when he was utterly finished and retired from playing half way through it.

 

We truly don’t have a ****ing clue what we are doing.

[micole]

7 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

In fairness, our defensive record from corners has certainly improved. I can only think that why we bring everyone back.

Here's the thing, we leave 2 up the opposition have to leave 3 back and, we ar least have an out ball. Fed up watching us clear a corner only for the ball to come straight back at us. Look I don't profess to be a tactical expert but surely we have to be on the front foot and make the opposition defend.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

7 minutes ago, The Merse said:

Reality is he only got a coaching gig with us because some ****head gave him a 4 year deal when he was utterly finished and retired from playing half way through it.

 

We truly don’t have a ****ing clue what we are doing.

It’s unbelievable pathetic. Amazing number of sad ***** in our support who back our board

[Rudi5kaceldream1ng]

For the amount of money we have spunked both hearts and aberdeen are an absolute disgrace right now. 

 

Getting embarrassed by squads assembled on shoestring budgets.

[Ari Gold]

3 minutes ago, micole said:

Here's the thing, we leave 2 up the opposition have to leave 3 back and, we ar least have an out ball. Fed up watching us clear a corner only for the ball to come straight back at us. Look I don't profess to be a tactical expert but surely we have to be on the front foot and make the opposition defend.

I dont disagree with your view tbh, id leave 1 or 2 up. I have noticed we have definitely improved defending corners recently with the everyone back approach. 

[Ari Gold]

13 minutes ago, The Merse said:

Reality is he only got a coaching gig with us because some ****head gave him a 4 year deal when he was utterly finished and retired from playing half way through it.

 

We truly don’t have a ****ing clue what we are doing.

This is sad but true.

[Dr Lager]

Yes

[gregzy2k7]

Naismith doesnt look great at the moment but do we have any faith in the people who appointed him and Mccavoy to get the next appointment right? I don't.

 

they (the board) are the ones needing sacked.

[ScoPo]

2 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Naismith doesnt look great at the moment but do we have any faith in the people who appointed him and Mccavoy to get the next appointment right? I don't.

 

they (the board) are the ones needing sacked.

Well this is very true.  

[feej]

30 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

the sort of cliched drivel talentless coaches come out with. Naitalent does not have a clue and is another one who is thieving a living from us

Commentators on Hearts TV said that everyone behind the ball tactic deployed now is a result of losing to many goals from set pieces last season. The cabal feel this is the best way to manage that risk.

I don't buy that mind you, keep guys up the pitch so the opposition will have to keep guys back to mark them.

[Dr Lager]

5 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Naismith doesnt look great at the moment but do we have any faith in the people who appointed him and Mccavoy to get the next appointment right? I don't.

 

they (the board) are the ones needing sacked.

100%

[Locky]

For me, no. I don't believe he deserves to be 'sacked' as in have his employment at the club completely terminated. Do I want him as head coach? That's a different question.

 

The worst part about this situation is that I really don't know who to point the finger out. Is Naismith the one at fault? Or is it McAvoy? Or is it both? We saw a real tune out the players when Naismith was interim last season, and it's all gone flat again. Part of me says, well clearly he's not getting the opportunity to influence things fully the way he intends. Will that change in the coming days and weeks? Who knows.

 

The whole set up is a massive shit show and I don't necessarily blame Naismith one bit. It's ultimately another batshit poor decision by the club.

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

Decent post.  No need to elaborate on your point.

 

What I will do is draw in a similar point about us not being able to get a ball playing midfielder because they cost money 😤( similar to the excuse we can’t get a decent , experienced manager)……Slattery of Motherwell, particularly in the first half, passed and probed for them, causing us all sorts of problems.  
 

It’s like the club and many fans have talked themselves into these situations and believe it.  Not saying he’s some sort of player above his level, but I’m not having we can’t find someone competent in possession to come in and give us more control in that area.  

He did indeed.  A beast of a guy to play against. Harry Paton did great for them too.    

 

Having said that, if we were to buy either of these guys (or any other midfielder doing well somewhere else) , I would bet money on them being pish for us.  For some strange reason, we don't seem able to get the best  out of the players we have, and that malaise just spreads to new players we bring in too.

 

There's something seriously deficient in our training, coaching, fitness  and game planning.     No idea how much Naismith is to blame for these, compared to Savage or McAvoy.

 

As regards the appointment of Naismith, I suspect the Board saw the positive effect of promoting from within  (Kettlewell at Motherwell  and Robson at ABerdeen), and felt they should try the same with Naisy.

 

 

[fila]

Yes and Joe can follow them out the door 

[merrymac]

41 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

In fairness, our defensive record from corners has certainly improved. I can only think that why we bring everyone back.

Think its more to do with having a CB that attacks the ball in the air.

[Hansel]

Think Joe needs to go too but then what does that communicate to all the players he has signed? 

 

"You're all shite"

 

Not exactly going to inspire confidence in the group of players moving forward.

 

What a mess we're in just now. 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Hansel

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

Would McAvoy be sacked first? as he is head coach, then we appoint a proven seasoned manager in his place

It would then be up for discussion if a Technical Director was required along with the new appointment 

[18Jambo_dave74]

Firstly, I think we all know the 'management team' are not getting sacked at this point. The irony being that there is much more chance that we will actually formally announce Naismith as head coach this week.

 

I'll be honest and say that I didn't want them appointed (and that was before we knew about the badges issue and the full implications). Naismith's record wasn't exactly great whilst caretaker manager however we were all told that his style of football would be attacking and that he was a winner...

 

I was at a plot ceremony over the summer and McKinley said that he wasn't impressed with the other candidates. He quickly added that we did speak to other candidates but he gave the impression that Naismith was the best candidate, almost by default. I found this extremely depressing to be honest. Given the strides that the club has made, I thought we would be able to attract a higher level of manager. Of course, perhaps the people that shortlist the candidates are not capable of identifying a good manager or headhunting one. 

 

I'm extremely concerned by the current tactics, player selections and intensity of our play. We seem to be making bizarre decisions - throwing in Beni to a massive European occasion then selecting him (at the expense of Grant, who is fit) for the squad for the next round. The continual selection of underperforming players; regularly playing people out of position; making multiple half time subs (aka things aren't working). Gino and Shankland carried out team for the last few months of last season - Gino is now gone and so it is left to Shankland to score (clearly nobody else is capable). I'm finding the lack of clarity/information provided about our injured players quite odd. 

 

Having been up at Dens, then out to Greece before ensuring I was back for todays game I feel completely deflated by the current situation and the performances. I keep hearing from the directors and the management how we're a big club and have ambitions to do this and that - how are we this poor and why do we keep getting so much wrong. The underachievement is quite staggering. Practically every managerial appointment under the current board has been someone with no previous managerial experience, a current employee or an ex-employee. The only other appointment that didn't fit these criteria was a complete disaster. 

 

 

 

 

[suds66]

1 hour ago, TallPaul said:

Mate of mine telling me he got booted off kickback back in June for suggesting this was a disastrous appointment, unambitious and cheap by the board. Accused of being a troll.....

Absolutely spot on, troll or not.

[jonnyinfo]

I don't think the board wanted to lose Naismith, I reckon Naismith most likely insinuated that if he didn't get the job then he'd be off, that takes some baws considering he doesn't have his badges, that's a winner type attitude to have IMO, maybe he's not a complete winner but he's more of a winner than we've had in a long time! that's why we have this weird setup that doesn't do us any favours, so we've pandered a little bit in the hope he comes good, but I'd be willing to keep the faith with him unless things get horrendous 😂 not so sure about McAvoy or Savage though, that's where things could could be shaken up a bit! 

[Ari Gold]

19 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Think its more to do with having a CB that attacks the ball in the air.

Certainly helps merrymac

[Bozi]

I tend to be quite balanced, quite positive, I am definitely a pragmatist and I tend to not get allow my  emotions to get in the way when it comes to Hearts, I also tend to back the 'manager' possibly too far in some cases 
But Heart of Midlothian Football Club is not a 'learn on the job' kind of gig, we are not a YTS for budding coaches. We are supposed to be a serious club, with serious ambitions of breaking the hegemony of the 'Old Firm' 

I said it in the summer, Naismith got a new manager bounce out of players who were vastly underperforming but that doesn't make him good enough (at this point) to be the main man at a club our size. You can talk about playing quick, fast paced football when the pressure is off but the reality of Scottish football is that it is 95% a war of attrition and you have to battle for every point.

The reality is if  Hearts really want to break the dominance of the Bigots then we needed to appoint a proven manager, we needed to be brave and we needed to be bold, we cannot afford to have someone learn on the job.

[Kirky Jambo]

1 minute ago, jonnyinfo said:

I don't think the board wanted to lose Naismith, I reckon Naismith most likely insinuated that if he didn't get the job then he'd be off, that takes some baws considering he doesn't have his badges, that's a winner type attitude to have IMO, maybe he's not a complete winner but he's more of a winner than we've had in a long time! that's why we have this weird setup that doesn't do us any favours, so we've pandered a little bit in the hope he comes good, but I'd be willing to keep the faith with him unless things get horrendous 😂 not so sure about McAvoy or Savage though, that's where things could could be shaken up a bit! 

I was thinking along these lines but surely to goodness he would not have then stood for the absolute shambles of a transfer window and pre season?

 

Agree Savage must be on an incredibly shoogly peg. As for McAvoy, seems a nice guy but nothing points to him or Forrest being competent coaches.

 

The only thing which makes me think Naismith could have a future is he seems to generally reflect the majority view on games and speaks sense. Unlike Neilson who was either deluded or just lied. That said, his reference to St Johnstone being a good performance is maybe a sign that he is going the same way.