Should Steven Naismith be sacked? ( merged )

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Made some good points there tbf,

 

But the crust of it is the "Fans" and JKB didn't make the decision of appointing naisy and Mccavoy, that my friend lies solely with board, whether fans wanted it or not makes no difference, we are not running the football club, they are.

It was a Cathroesque appointment ie 75% on here wanted him in the job and were happy with the appointment. Sadly that combined with a Board who have a virtually zero football pedigree meant that we jumped in with Naismith and then discovered we had licence issues and came up with a fudge to try to get round it. At least with Cathro there was some football pedigree around whe the decision was taken ie Levein

 

i was one of the 25% who didn’t think Naismith was ready, still don’t, feel sorry for him because he has been set up with the license fudge and poor recruitment, again, so hasn’t really had a fair shot at it yet. Should we give him more time? Don’t think so because there are really no signs of how he can get us out of this without a new management team working with him and some new players ie midfielders.  The argument for an experienced, time-served candidate is even stronger now than it was four months ago imo. Given the fixture list in front of us if we dont pick up 6 points at least in September we will likely be bottom of the league come end of October and out of the league cup and out of Europe. Completely unacceptable if that happens. Tough call as to whether we make the change now or early November. 

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, colinmorewasgash said:

Its total farce that one minute franky boy is in charge and does interviews as head coach then today naismith tech director. Savage wanted his mate manager not naismith that seems to be the talk at club. I'm sure he knows that so can't be easy working with mcavoy who was in academy and basically steven gets demoted for europe then again why appoint him then realise oh he doesn't hve licence. Seems a bit like oh we didnt realise we needed seats for stand. Players seemed to playing for naismith near end of season. Halliday was pal of snodgrass seems petty that he doesn't at least get chance in midfield when we are short. Grant thing is weird if he wasnt in euro squad why keep him. Seems to be that players don't know from one game to next whose actually in charge and what are tactics from week to week. Also which one is it keeps picking rowles and bringing on toby as our midfield saviour. And what has happened to cochrane one of our best players originally to an absolute huddy with so many mistakes from him. Also when manager leaves they all leave together normally esp if they joined with them, so why was forrest kept on seemed bizarre.

Grant has such a good contract that no-one is willing to take him off our hands.  He won’t go without a pay-off. Two more years. 

[Bad Religion]

8 hours ago, weegie jambo said:

I like Naismith, what's to say we can't bin McAvoy and bring in a coach above Naismith whilst he gains his badges. Still think he can be a good influence in the dugout. 

I feel a bit sorry for Naismith in all of this but the reality is without being properly qualified, he never should have been appointed in the first place. 
 

Although I’d like to see Naismith kept in some capacity I think we need a complete clear out. New experienced managerial team with their chosen staff and new outlook. 

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

I don't necessarily agree in all honesty with this part. I think there is a lot of people having a go at the board who also supported the Naismith appointment, and based on the fact that they never had a Scooby Doo about the licencing issue.

 

It wasn't highlighted at the time of the naismith appointment. Only that he was appointed interim manager and in the words of AM himself, "it's his job to lose"

 

I was one that was fully behind Naismith 100 %. No backtracking whatsoever. That said, if it was put to the fan base at the time, publicly, and also those that supported the appointment, that Naismith wouldn't be able to manage in Europe for X amount of time, and that we would need to shuffle people about in the background to compensate because of the licencing issue, I think most folk would have saw red flags with the whole thing 

 

I think if folk back the board, and make it easy for the board to make a decision there is truth is what you say in that they shouldn't then turn on the board things go wrong.

 

In this case and whether the board didn't highlight the licence issue for fear of UEFA getting wind about it, regardless you cant expect the whole support to gaze into a crystal ball and identify a known issue, that the board may have been aware of, but no one else was. 

 

Not having a go at you or what you are saying but the situation we find ourselves in now, is the 100% the boards doing, and no one elses, least of all those that supported the appointment. 

 

It was never going to be an issue having Tom, Dick or Harry in an official capacity as head coach but it sure as hell would have been and if the manager, whom everyone thought was the manager, was still the technical director at the time we started losing games. 

 

And now, we find ourselves in this ludicrous scenario.

 

I have backed the board in recent times and think having a board in place rather than having one or two decision makers is healthy. Absolutely. 

 

This, however, is an absolute mess. It's a futile situation and one, that unless we pick up, and pick up quickly is going to leave an "unnecessary" legacy of overall resentment. 

 

Further to that, we expect to hear an announcement shortly that Naismith will be re appointed HC and before he even has "ONE" game in his first official capacity as HC, and since the interim appointment, there is a vast amount of folk baying for his blood, and everyone elses already.

 

It sounds exactly the same it reads. An absolute shit show. It's border level incompetence, and the board have to and need to accept full responsibility for causing it. 

 

Good post

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

To me the next four features are a pretty good temperature test. Home to Aberdeen, away to Mirren, away to Killie, away to County. Our #1 rival for third and three tough away matches. Naismith needs to show something in those. The European distraction is done, time to focus on the pitch.

 

We played fairly well against PAOK at home and but for a few inches might have won that. The other three of the last four have been unacceptable. If we play Aberdeen like we played PAOK, we should win.

 

Two more losses in a row and I'd probably say Naisy has to go. Beyond that, a minimum of 5 points from the next 4.

One of the four is a cup tie? 

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I'd agree up to a point.  But the reality is that people jumped on a bandwagon and made it easier for the board to make the easy choice.  If Naismith hadn't been the apparently popular choice, the board would have thought a bit longer and harder about it.  That doesn't change responsibility for the decision, but now that some of the same people who were cheering that appointment on are happy to have a go at the board, they should at least be willing to admit that they've changed their minds.  In fairness a small number have done that, but most others will probably be happy to pretend they weren't in the 80% who "boarded the Naisy train" back in May.  And in any case the club is going to be a lot worse off if the board keeps giving people the job and then sacking them after a dozen or so games in charge.  

 

 

 

If we don't haul some points in September (like 5 from the next three games) we may have to write this season off.  Let's hope he's got what it takes.

Exactly, if it had been 75% on here and other forums saying no to Naismith they wouldn’t have given him the job. 

[hearts00]

10 hours ago, S Form said:

Steven Naismith isn’t going to be sacked in the first week of September. That would be acting too quickly. I reckon he’ll get at least one round of fixtures. If we’re still as shite at that point then he’ll be shown the door. 

He wont get the first round of fixtures if results continue like this. 

[gregzy2k7]

8 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

He wont get the first round of fixtures if results continue like this. 

Well that's the reality of football management unfortunately, But I still think the Board need to face the consequences for this, it's now got to a point where this cannot be swept under the carpet, for me they have fecked up far too many times over the last 9 seasons now and have to be brought to task whether Naismith goes or not.

[GinRummy]

16 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Exactly, if it had been 75% on here and other forums saying no to Naismith they wouldn’t have given him the job. 

I voted yes to Naismith but if I’m being honest I don’t really expect the board to just appoint the guy that’s popular with fans. Surely there’s a lot more to the recruitment process than that. 
 

If we were playing the same football as he had us playing at the tail end of last season I’d probably be happier. I can’t understand why we’ve gone back to the style that saw Robbie sacked. 

[Dazo]

27 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

It was a Cathroesque appointment ie 75% on here wanted him in the job and were happy with the appointment. Sadly that combined with a Board who have a virtually zero football pedigree meant that we jumped in with Naismith and then discovered we had licence issues and came up with a fudge to try to get round it. At least with Cathro there was some football pedigree around whe the decision was taken ie Levein

 

i was one of the 25% who didn’t think Naismith was ready, still don’t, feel sorry for him because he has been set up with the license fudge and poor recruitment, again, so hasn’t really had a fair shot at it yet. Should we give him more time? Don’t think so because there are really no signs of how he can get us out of this without a new management team working with him and some new players ie midfielders.  The argument for an experienced, time-served candidate is even stronger now than it was four months ago imo. Given the fixture list in front of us if we dont pick up 6 points at least in September we will likely be bottom of the league come end of October and out of the league cup and out of Europe. Completely unacceptable if that happens. Tough call as to whether we make the change now or early November. 

We knew about the license issues before he was appointed. 

[bobskeldon]

Yes, get rid of all 3. The only reason any of them were appointed was because they were just down the corridor. Had they not been in the building, we would never even have interviewed any of them for a vacant Manager/Head coach position. Because we have previous in appointing a ‘trainee’ in Cathro and someone who was “just down the corridor” in CL, the board members responsible should be sacked too. The board also have previous of taking too long to make changes, IC, CL and RN. We are a professional football club, let’s start acting like one.

Edited September 4, 2023 by bobskeldon

[Hearts1975]

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

We knew about the license issues before he was appointed. 

I'm pretty certain that at the time he was appointed interim manager, nothing was mentioned, or said, and in terms of the licensing issue. ?

Apologies if you meant "we" as in the board. 

[Forza Cuore]

Yes. Should be relieved of his duties today along with the Postman and the baldy pretender.

 

Savage and McGinlay can follow them back along the M8.

[gregzy2k7]

3 minutes ago, Forza Cuore said:

Yes. Should be relieved of his duties today along with the Postman and the baldy pretender.

 

Savage and McGinlay can follow them back along the M8.

Can they also take queen Anne with them?

[1971fozzy]

Complete overhaul needed. From the top to the bottom. Budge, McKinlay, Savage   And the frauds in the dugout. 
Could greet when I look at this club right now.  Failures, Incompetent and frauds.

what a shit show

[Gokuzo_The_Jambo]

Still no news, come on Hearts... perfect opportunity with the international break.

 

Get the management team to f...

[Forza Cuore]

5 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Can they also take queen Anne with them?

Hire a bus for them all and make it leave 4 hours earlier than it needs too.

 

Sounds about right.

 

 

[Sooks]

14 hours ago, jbee647 said:

Sack Naismith after 4 league games and we become a laughing stock , not even a half decent manager will touch us

btw I’m not convinced he’s the answer, but it’s far too soon

If and it’s a big if, we then go for a steady experienced manager, we are in no position to appoint experiments or projects.

Someone who knows the job and won’t accept interference from the clown board at Hearts 

We would need to get benefactors to pay for a good manager for us , and if we could afford it , he would definitely come . We have some good players and a good manager would get a tune out of them 

[Oda be a JT]

According to the Daily Record (I know), Naismith will be appointed head coach this week with quotes from him (yesterday) saying it hasn’t been good enough recently or how he wants to play - is that him throwing McAvoy under the bus and blaming him (which could be true I guess) as if SN didn’t have any input on games so far this season?

 

(this may have been mentioned, not read whole thread)

[sac]

Players get managers the sack, they look shit scared to take any risks, you can hear it now every time there’s an error. Whole squad needs to man up and take responsibility effing snowflakes 

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Oda be a JT said:

According to the Daily Record (I know), Naismith will be appointed head coach this week with quotes from him (yesterday) saying it hasn’t been good enough recently or how he wants to play - is that him throwing McAvoy under the bus and blaming him (which could be true I guess) as if SN didn’t have any input on games so far this season?

 

(this may have been mentioned, not read whole thread)

Suppose we just have to wait and see if there is a change in how we play . Whatever this shit I am watching is and who ever is responsible for it needs to end though . That was complete shite yesterday

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, sac said:

Players get managers the sack, they look shit scared to take any risks, you can hear it now every time there’s an error. Whole squad needs to man up and take responsibility effing snowflakes 

A good manager gets that squad winning . I trust my own eyes and there are very good players in there 

[H2]

No point in doing anything unless you have another objective set. Step 1 , find something you know is better. Step 2 sound it out. 

Don't tell kickbackers because 75% will object.

[Dazo]

27 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

I'm pretty certain that at the time he was appointed interim manager, nothing was mentioned, or said, and in terms of the licensing issue. ?

Apologies if you meant "we" as in the board. 

Yeah meant the club knew. 👍

[Jodami]

9 minutes ago, Oda be a JT said:

According to the Daily Record (I know), Naismith will be appointed head coach this week with quotes from him (yesterday) saying it hasn’t been good enough recently or how he wants to play - is that him throwing McAvoy under the bus and blaming him (which could be true I guess) as if SN didn’t have any input on games so far this season?

 

(this may have been mentioned, not read whole thread)

But but but dozens of posters on this site said the set up was obvious and pant wetters were idiots?

Of course he's throwing him under the bus, Naismith only looks after number 1, that's been his ethos throughout his career. Particularly at Hearts when he used Levein's weak position to get a 4 year deal when he knew his fitness was dodgy and then persuaded the board he could reinvent himself as a manager overnight. Get this wage thief out of our club.

[Getintaethem]

12 minutes ago, Oda be a JT said:

According to the Daily Record (I know), Naismith will be appointed head coach this week with quotes from him (yesterday) saying it hasn’t been good enough recently or how he wants to play - is that him throwing McAvoy under the bus and blaming him (which could be true I guess) as if SN didn’t have any input on games so far this season?

 

(this may have been mentioned, not read whole thread)

Smoke and mirrors, change a couple of job titles to get the fans back on side.  The whole appointment has been farcical.  The blame lies squarely with the board for this.  Appointing an inexperienced manager with no coaching badges, then creating a whole charade to hide the fact that they had done so, is extremely amateurish.  This will rumble on for weeks and it won’t end well.

[Skacelsid]

8 hours ago, weegie jambo said:

I like Naismith, what's to say we can't bin McAvoy and bring in a coach above Naismith whilst he gains his badges. Still think he can be a good influence in the dugout. 

I would prefer giving that a go, although no idea who could come in to take the reins. I would also take it further than just binning McAvoy by having the other coaches sitting in the stand or the house and not in the dugout with their pointless diagrams and tablets. McAvoy stated after the poor Paok show that we "did not retain possession well enough" so obviously nothing will change. We will continue to practice pointless possession drills. That, when our players do not even look fit.

[Hearts1975]

24 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Yeah meant the club knew. 👍

👌👍

[Sooperstar]

Promoted. 

[Chris#9]

Zero accountability from the board or the management team. Its a shambles from top to bottom…….. again. 
 

i looked at our squad this morning. 23 first team players not including goalies. Thats 5/6 too many. And even with that,  we have nothing in midfield. Not one midfielder that can pass fwd. 

 

Also, whats this whole we’re better out of Europe to concentrate on the league? When the point of the league is to get into europe. 
 

 

[qferryjam]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

I voted yes to Naismith but if I’m being honest I don’t really expect the board to just appoint the guy that’s popular with fans. Surely there’s a lot more to the recruitment process than that. 
 

If we were playing the same football as he had us playing at the tail end of last season I’d probably be happier. I can’t understand why we’ve gone back to the style that saw Robbie sacked. 

He had nothing to lose last season the fear factor has set in ,safe possession football,Motherwell only had to keep it tight and play on the break ,it was down to us to break them down we had neither the guil or fight to win the game even against 10 men we had 1 shot on goal in 90 minutes,

we will limp on while the stands start to empty we will be out the league cup and in the bottom 6 fighting relegation,

the decision should be made this week but it won’t 

[qferryjam]

38 minutes ago, Jodami said:

But but but dozens of posters on this site said the set up was obvious and pant wetters were idiots?

Of course he's throwing him under the bus, Naismith only looks after number 1, that's been his ethos throughout his career. Particularly at Hearts when he used Levein's weak position to get a 4 year deal when he knew his fitness was dodgy and then persuaded the board he could reinvent himself as a manager overnight. Get this wage thief out of our club.

I’m pretty sure part of that 4 year deal was a parking spot in the directors car park ,If you don’t ask you don’t get 😀

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Why tf after this shambles is he now going to get the job

 

the incompetence of our board is staggering, and almost at the stage of being funny 

[Ivan Drago]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Why tf after this shambles is he now going to get the job

 

the incompetence of our board is staggering, and almost at the stage of being funny 

Anything to avoid getting an actual manager.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

40 minutes ago, Jodami said:

But but but dozens of posters on this site said the set up was obvious and pant wetters were idiots?

Of course he's throwing him under the bus, Naismith only looks after number 1, that's been his ethos throughout his career. Particularly at Hearts when he used Levein's weak position to get a 4 year deal when he knew his fitness was dodgy and then persuaded the board he could reinvent himself as a manager overnight. Get this wage thief out of our club.

Naismith started out at Hearts by avoiding coming in until August so he could get an extra month’s pay from Norwich. And we tolerated that. He’s laughably arrogant and he should be gone with the other two gormless idiots 

[gregzy2k7]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Why tf after this shambles is he now going to get the job

 

the incompetence of our board is staggering, and almost at the stage of being funny 

It's laughable mate.

 

I can only laugh now, it's literally beyond belief.

 

Rewarding failure is the Hearts way it appears.

 

Budge an Co destroying the football club, who gives a toss about a new stand? when the fans will dissappear as she keeps running us deeper and deeper into the shit. 

 

Oh but we've got a new hotel and a burds team.

 

Just Gtf already.

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

With Scott Brown and Lee Johnson ready and available to take over, why are we hesitating

[Meldrum Jambo]

I think he should be sacked now and was far too inexperienced to be given the job in the first place. However if we are going to be changing job titles,  then we should amend his contract to expire at the end of the season. If he does well great, if not costs us less to bin him in November.

[hughesie27]

1 minute ago, gregzy2k7 said:

It's laughable mate.

 

I can only laugh now, it's literally beyond belief.

 

Rewarding failure is the Hearts way it appears.

 

Budge an Co destroying the football club, who gives a toss about a new stand? when the fans will dissappear as she keeps running us deeper and deeper into the shit. 

 

Oh but we've got a new hotel and a burds team.

 

Just Gtf already.

 

 

Running us deeper and deeper into the shit is pretty hyperbole.

We finished 3rd and reached a Scottish Cup Final then finished 4th.

 

Certainly not happy with the way things are andthe management team should be punted, but a bit of perspective needed.

 

 

Similar attitude to the first time we forced Neilson out the door. Record breaking Championship win followed by 3rd place, then we forced him out the door when we were sitting in 2nd.

 

With the size of the club we should be expecting to finish 3rd each year but it's not our Right to. I believe we have only achieved back to back 3rd place finishes twice in the last 30 odd years. 

 

We were in the shit 3 years ago. We have came on a long way since then. Perspective. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

54 minutes ago, H2 said:

No point in doing anything unless you have another objective set. Step 1 , find something you know is better. Step 2 sound it out. 

Don't tell kickbackers because 75% will object.

For any club, that has to be the objective. Incredulously it doesn't seem to happen very often. I think there could be 5 or 6 managers out by Christmas. 

 

 

[AC Mallin_51]

This full thing has shades of 19/20

[AlphonseCapone]

Ah, the wage thief chat. There's so many things to say about this situation but folk pull out the primary school stuff.

[MattyK82]

8 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Running us deeper and deeper into the shit is pretty hyperbole.

We finished 3rd and reached a Scottish Cup Final then finished 4th.

 

Certainly not happy with the way things are andthe management team should be punted, but a bit of perspective needed.

 

 

Similar attitude to the first time we forced Neilson out the door. Record breaking Championship win followed by 3rd place, then we forced him out the door when we were sitting in 2nd.

 

With the size of the club we should be expecting to finish 3rd each year but it's not our Right to. I believe we have only achieved back to back 3rd place finishes twice in the last 30 odd years. 

 

We were in the shit 3 years ago. We have came on a long way since then. Perspective. 

Think it’s actually twice in the last 60 years 👀 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

This change in job title means little unless Savages mate Frankie leaves and Naismith gets to restructure and choose his own assistant. 
 

Also it’s making an assumption that he will have his pro licence in time for next year, we expect and aim to play in Europe again in 12 months don’t we? Will he definitely have the badges by then? 

[Gundermann]

7 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

To me the next four features are a pretty good temperature test. Home to Aberdeen, away to Mirren, away to Killie, away to County. Our #1 rival for third and three tough away matches. Naismith needs to show something in those. The European distraction is done, time to focus on the pitch.

 

We played fairly well against PAOK at home and but for a few inches might have won that. The other three of the last four have been unacceptable. If we play Aberdeen like we played PAOK, we should win.

 

Two more losses in a row and I'd probably say Naisy has to go. Beyond that, a minimum of 5 points from the next 4.

 

Not good reading on current form. As things stand, I reckon we could beat Aberdeen at home but the three away games might give us no more than a point and a cup exit, at best.

 

If the board is canny, they'll be identifying replacements for SN now.

[Ibrahim Tall]

8 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

This change in job title means little unless Savages mate Frankie leaves and Naismith gets to restructure and choose his own assistant. 
 

Also it’s making an assumption that he will have his pro licence in time for next year, we expect and aim to play in Europe again in 12 months don’t we? Will he definitely have the badges by then? 

On current form that seems optimistic tbh so maybe he won’t have to bother…

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

16 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Ah, the wage thief chat. There's so many things to say about this situation but folk pull out the primary school stuff.

If the cap fits, Al. If the cap fits.

[Carter]

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Grant has such a good contract that no-one is willing to take him off our hands.  He won’t go without a pay-off. Two more years. 

Looks and feels very reminiscent of Malaury Martin and Loic Damour. With Connor Sammon and Oshinawa other similar instances where we've handed lucrative contracts to players and then not played them and we can't get them out the door as potentially interested clubs will not pay them what we are.

 

Not sure many of our rivals have as many similar instances. All comes back to recruitment.

[Berra than you]

4 minutes ago, Carter said:

Looks and feels very reminiscent of Malaury Martin and Loic Damour. With Connor Sammon and Oshinawa other similar instances where we've handed lucrative contracts to players and then not played them and we can't get them out the door as potentially interested clubs will not pay them what we are.

 

Not sure many of our rivals have as many similar instances. All comes back to recruitment.

In the sense that management don't fancy him. Personally have liked the look of Grant. Whilst he is undoubtedly not the answer, I'd argue he'd offer more.in midfield than we are currently seeing.

[longmalx]

Naismith should be on a shoogly peg due to the lack of a game plan and plainly the resources we have are not being used correctly.
Savage should be on a shooglier peg due to the midfield signing debacle and hiring an inexperience manager who was not qualified to manage - this has led to uncertainty everywhere I think.

 

The management of Grant has been horrific - if that is the way we're treating players I'm not surprised the performances are a bit 'meh'.

Edited September 4, 2023 by longmalx