Should Steven Naismith be sacked? ( merged )

[whodanny]

1 minute ago, Ari Gold said:

Naismith is the manager now and has been since the start of the season. Surely you don't think FM is running the show?

Where did I say that ? But like it or not he has input, and I want him binned.

[Pasquale for King]

48 minutes ago, feej said:

I think Tagawa is a run onto the through ball type striker so if we had a midfield that could achieve that then he may become a goalscorer for us.

Alas the midfield is shite,  someone said to me that Naismith said pre match he thinks Haring and Devlin are a good partnership,  for me, that comment sticks and tells me he's not really got a clue.

 

So was Ginnelly, Shankland can play that pass, as can Lowry who cant be any worse than what we’ve seen play CM. Slattery looked good today also. 

[Pasquale for King]

51 minutes ago, Arry said:

And yet we still couldn’t score against 10 men.  Overall recruitment has been an absolute disaster.  Totally fed up.

Because you have two wingbacks who can’t defend or more importantly find someone with a cross. Agree with the rest, especially the last part. 

[Chuck Berry]

7 minutes ago, goader said:

Hate kickback when we loose matches.  It a No for me even after the game today.  You cannot sack a manager/ coach every time we hit a bad spell.    New players need time to settle and booing at every opportunity does not help in anyway.  

 

On the other hand when everyone can see it's clearly not working, you need to act.

[Ari Gold]

2 minutes ago, whodanny said:

Where did I say that ? But like it or not he has input, and I want him binned.

Just find it strange you want him gone but happy for Naismith to continue. 

[WheatfieldWarrior]

2 hours ago, jbee647 said:

Sack Naismith after 4 league games and we become a laughing stock , not even a half decent manager will touch us

btw I’m not convinced he’s the answer, but it’s far too soon

If and it’s a big if, we then go for a steady experienced manager, we are in no position to appoint experiments or projects.

Someone who knows the job and won’t accept interference from the clown board at Hearts 

 

We're already a laughing stock - the media have been running the who is the manager line for months.  What we are talking about is how long before we do something to put it right.

 

Hibs have already pulled the trigger on a poorly performing manager so we wouldn't be the first this season.

[feej]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

So was Ginnelly, Shankland can play that pass, as can Lowry who cant be any worse than what we’ve seen play CM. Slattery looked good today also. 

I've been very disappointed by Lowry so far, not sure what's up there, maybe not the player you need when things aren't going to plan, Slattery impressed and had a good finish.

Dinny tell anyone but I was impressed how Motherwell managed the game when down to 10 men, suspect that's down to good coaching and planning.

[whodanny]

2 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

Just find it strange you want him gone but happy for Naismith to continue. 

Alright, get Naismith tae **** and keep McAvoy, you happy noo ?  Or are you just pissed off and looking for an arguement?. Gies peace.

Edited September 3, 2023 by whodanny

[Romulus]

.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Mort

[Gregski51]

So if FM is still technically the manager, does that mean we can sack him and bring in someone else, whilst keeping Naismith in a coaching role? Wouldn't be against that. Something has to change. I feel bad for Naismith in a way, as he shouldn't have been given this position in the first place

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, whodanny said:

Alright, get Naismith tae **** and keep McAvoy, you happy noo ?  Or are you just pissed off and looking for an arguement?. Gies peace.

How’s about **** the whole thing off and get an actual manager?

 

This isn’t really Naismith’s fault but his willingness to take the job minus any experience or qualifications is part of the problem. Arrogance all round.

[Ari Gold]

Just now, whodanny said:

Alright, get Naismith tae **** and keep McAvoy, you happy noo ?  Or are you just pissed off and looking for an arguement?. Gies peace.

Not at all, was just a bit confused. I think both should go. Just like Forrest should have left with Neilson. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, feej said:

I've been very disappointed by Lowry so far, not sure what's up there, maybe not the player you need when things aren't going to plan, Slattery impressed and had a good finish.

Dinny tell anyone but I was impressed how Motherwell managed the game when down to 10 men, suspect that's down to good coaching and planning.

Hes got talent and can see a pass, slow though and cant get away from a fullback. Beside a destroyer he should be ok, worth a try imo. 
First time I’ve noticed Slattery, his goal and long range attempt aside hes a midfielder that knows what he should be doing. 
Kettlewell doing a good job there. 

[maltese jambo]

Absofrigginutley.

 

Massive mistake appointing this bunch.

[davie1980]

Absolutely not!

 

I'm generally a "give the management time" kinda guy. But this was always a gamble and you need to give it time to see if it'll work. 

 

He's an inexperienced manager and hasn't even got his coaching badges yet.

Should he have been signed in the first place? Very possibly not but that was a decision that's already been taken and most were happy when they thought it meant a certain type of football. We knew what we were choosing to get ourselves into.

 

He's been thrown in to his first big job, he's started off picking up a squad that wasn't i. The best place, we've made a few changes, all new guys to the league or in Lowry's case a young inexperienced lad 

And ge came in having to deal with a european campaign and 2 games a week.

 

We need to let things settle down now and find out what he has with a steady, 1 game a week, league campaign. Even if he is the wrong man for the job, he should be given time and patience to see what he has.

 

 

[Agentjambo]

2 minutes ago, Gregski51 said:

So if FM is still technically the manager, does that mean we can sack him and bring in someone else, whilst keeping Naismith in a coaching role? Wouldn't be against that. Something has to change. I feel bad for Naismith in a way, as he shouldn't have been given this position in the first place

No….that would cost money.We have shiny hotel rooms to furnish etc 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

We're already a laughing stock - the media have been running the who is the manager line for months.  What we are talking about is how long before we do something to put it right.

 

Hibs have already pulled the trigger on a poorly performing manager so we wouldn't be the first this season.

Has anyone sacked a technical director yet 🤦🏽?

[davie1980]

5 minutes ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

We're already a laughing stock - the media have been running the who is the manager line for months.  What we are talking about is how long before we do something to put it right.

 

Hibs have already pulled the trigger on a poorly performing manager so we wouldn't be the first this season.

 

Aye, lets copy what Hibs are doing.

 

Love that philosophy 👌 

[the posh bit]

It's September 3rd. 

 

Hearts supporters are utter weirdos. 

 

[the posh bit]

2 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

Absolutely not!

 

I'm generally a "give the management time" kinda guy. But this was always a gamble and you need to give it time to see if it'll work. 

 

He's an inexperienced manager and hasn't even got his coaching badges yet.

Should he have been signed in the first place? Very possibly not but that was a decision that's already been taken and most were happy when they thought it meant a certain type of football. We knew what we were choosing to get ourselves into.

 

He's been thrown in to his first big job, he's started off picking up a squad that wasn't i. The best place, we've made a few changes, all new guys to the league or in Lowry's case a young inexperienced lad 

And ge came in having to deal with a european campaign and 2 games a week.

 

We need to let things settle down now and find out what he has with a steady, 1 game a week, league campaign. Even if he is the wrong man for the job, he should be given time and patience to see what he has.

 

 

 

👍

[busbyfth]

15 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

McAvoy had nothing to do with Neilson's coaching team. 

so in that case its just Naismith breaking his promise

[Pasquale for King]

Thats a few times where he has needed to change something and failed to get it right. 
Not entirely sure why Gordon Forrest was kept on and seems to be getting a free pass. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

It's September 3rd. 

 

Hearts supporters are utter weirdos. 

 

Well try and stop being one.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah It changed in away games but the home games against RC and Aberdeen where we had 60 shots on goal and played fast attacking football with an urgency we havent seen yet, is what I was hoping for. 

These one off performances were already there. We already knew how to take advantage of a team not on it defensively. It was not the step change which myth makers made it out to be. 

 

I would rather Naismith had beat Ross county and we only had 2 shots on goal, if we repeated the same W against St Mirren, Killie, Motherwell, Hibs etc and took 3 points in these games.
 

That would have been a bigger sign of a management ability than what we’ve seen. 
 

It’s consistency that was the fundamental issue. Against teams who defend well and do not allow you to have 30 shots. You can’t allow these teams to cut you open on the break or you get a result like today. 

 

The inconsistency was the thing needing fixed. It was not fixed in those 7 games. Unsuccessful audition, wrongly deemed a success. Based on hope that the one off performance would continue. Instead the mental softness is what has continued.
 

 

[sandylejambo]

If he's dumb enough to play Nielson football then he deserves to be sacked

[Agentjambo]

18 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

It's September 3rd. 

 

Hearts supporters are utter weirdos. 

 

Yes….you are.

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

These one off performances were already there. We already knew how to take advantage of a team not on it defensively. It was not the step change which myth makers made it out to be. 

 

I would rather Naismith had beat Ross county and we only had 2 shots on goal, if we repeated the same W against St Mirren, Killie, Motherwell, Hibs etc and took 3 points in these games.
 

That would have been a bigger sign of a management ability than what we’ve seen. 
 

It’s consistency that was the fundamental issue. Against teams who defend well and do not allow you to have 30 shots. You can’t allow these teams to cut you open on the break or you get a result like today. 

 

The inconsistency was the thing needing fixed. It was not fixed in those 7 games. Unsuccessful audition, wrongly deemed a success. Based on hope that the one off performance would continue. Instead the mental softness is what has continued.
 

 

They were two home games on the trot, not one off performances months apart, RN never had a team have 30 shots on goal even against PT teams. 
We weren’t inconsistent, our performances had been poor since Halkett and Gordon were injured but we got through and then started to lose consistently. 
Naismith hasn’t solved any of the problems we faced but broke the losing streak eventually, but here we are again 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

Can’t get over how differently we are approaching games in comparison to his first few games . Night and day.  
 

This isn’t what people thought we would get when he was backed so heavily. 
 

Whatever the reason, it’s not working and once you lose the fans here you don’t come back from it.

 

still don’t think there is any great option out there 

A couple of things.

 

I think what happened at the end of last season (whilst I don’t think it justified being appointed) was that Naismith added a more attacking outlook to the foundations built by Neilson. These foundations weren’t working anymore for Neilson - we had slightly crawled up our own arse and it is apparent the players/Neilson axis had broken.

 

But remember Naismith saying he wouldn’t or couldn’t change too much before the end of the season. Remember he also said it wasn’t about 3rd.

 

He gave himself a free hit and he used the foundation which had largely been successful with Neilson and gave it a new voice - play it forward more quickly.

 

I think what has happened in the summer is that he has tried to use that time to move away from that foundation - as he is entitled to do so, it is his team now. But I’m doing so he has shown his inexperience, his indecisiveness and now that there is proper pressure to win games it is apparent he hasn’t managed to do it.

 

We are simply too big and have too much at stake for this type of arrangement.

 

Second point. Of course we can get a proper manager in with experience. I don’t understand how can be so belligerent about this.
 

And please don’t say “who then?”

 

I am trying to make sensible points with someone that ripped the shit out of me since May, as it is important - I don’t know who mate but if a club of our size can’t get a decent manager with experience (not looking for the new Pep - we don’t need that) then we might as well give up.

[whodanny]

22 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

Not at all, was just a bit confused. I think both should go. Just like Forrest should have left with Neilson. 

Well, fair enough. But I reckon Naisy will be staying, for the reasons outlined by @jbee647 above. Who's going to want to come here and not be given a decent crack o' the whip ?  We end up like Hibs with a revolving door.

[AC Mallin_51]

19 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

Absolutely not!

 

I'm generally a "give the management time" kinda guy. But this was always a gamble and you need to give it time to see if it'll work. 

 

He's an inexperienced manager and hasn't even got his coaching badges yet.

Should he have been signed in the first place? Very possibly not but that was a decision that's already been taken and most were happy when they thought it meant a certain type of football. We knew what we were choosing to get ourselves into.

 

He's been thrown in to his first big job, he's started off picking up a squad that wasn't i. The best place, we've made a few changes, all new guys to the league or in Lowry's case a young inexperienced lad 

And ge came in having to deal with a european campaign and 2 games a week.

 

We need to let things settle down now and find out what he has with a steady, 1 game a week, league campaign. Even if he is the wrong man for the job, he should be given time and patience to see what he has.

 

 

I’m definitely for giving managers time but this one is different. Let’s use Stendel as an example. There wasn’t a lot of shouts to sack him even though the results were poor because you could see he was trying to implement a style, he was trying to get us playing a certain way. So we had that thought that maybe if he gets enough time he can maybe turn things around and come good because there is at least something there. When robinson went to st mirren halfway through a season their form fell off a cliff, I had them down as relegation candidates for the following season but they came good, he got time, he clearly has a philosophy he sticks to when managing, he brought his own guys in and it’s paid off. With this coaching set up we have I just see nothing. I can’t even begin to understand what it is we’re trying to do, we just look absolutely clueless. They’ve had a full pre season, new players have came in. I just can’t see an identity, a style, im struggling to work out what our tactics are. Players are being shoehorned into positions they don’t normally play. To me this has already hit the point where I just don’t see how it’s going to work so why delay the inevitable. Neilson on the whole was pretty successful in his second spell at hearts but it was clear to see when he hit the point of no return. I just feel like that’s where we are already with this team, it’s just not gonna work 

[Dagger Is Back]

Nope far too early.

[Agentjambo]

1 minute ago, Dagger Is Back said:

Nope far too early.

Wait until we’re adrift at the bottom first…it’s got the last few weeks of Neilson written all over it.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Dagger Is Back said:

Nope far too early.

 

Kind of where I am too, except without the "far". He should be given a fair crack at the whip, unless performances and results continue to be abysmal in the short term.

[martoon]

It's so simple:

 

Appoint the best badged up coaching team that finance allows but no, not at Heart of Midlothian.

 

While a "safe pair of hands" and a tried and trusted friend is the first requirement we're going nowhere.

 

Unambitious, mediocrity is our future.

 

 

[AC Mallin_51]

31 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

It's September 3rd. 

 

Hearts supporters are utter weirdos. 

 

3 wins in 11 league games. They’ve been in charge since April, they’ve had a full pre season and brought in their own players and we look absolutely dreadful. 4 points from St Johnstone, Killie, Dundee and Motherwell. None of whom were in last seasons top 6. We are beyond abysmal 

[Tokyo Drifter]

3 hours ago, jbee647 said:

Sack Naismith after 4 league games and we become a laughing stock , not even a half decent manager will touch us

btw I’m not convinced he’s the answer, but it’s far too soon

If and it’s a big if, we then go for a steady experienced manager, we are in no position to appoint experiments or projects.

Someone who knows the job and won’t accept interference from the clown board at Hearts 

Pretty dismal end to last season as well, though, so it's a run of 11 games really, plus the European ties. Pressure eases if we beat the Sheep, but if not I think he has to go. 

[Paisley Jambo]

3 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Can we change this to "Should the committee be sacked along with Joe Savage?"

 

Because removing one of them won't solve anything.

Agree. They all need to go. What a shambles!

[MarkDevriesScores4]

My take on it is…

I didn’t want him as manager when he was appointed but it seemed to be a popular choice with fans so I was happy to go with the consensus. At that time, there was zero mention about the bizarre set up with Frankie whilst Naismith uses us to get his badges. Make no mistake, Naismith is using hearts to get qualified. We have given him the job and we now need to allow him time to sink himself. He will sink himself. Unfortunately that means this season is largely a write-off.

[OTT]

36 minutes ago, Gregski51 said:

So if FM is still technically the manager, does that mean we can sack him and bring in someone else, whilst keeping Naismith in a coaching role? Wouldn't be against that. Something has to change. I feel bad for Naismith in a way, as he shouldn't have been given this position in the first place

 

The problem isn't the outward appearance, its whats happening behind the scenes. 

 

I think the board have ****ed it with Naismith. 

 

Smarter play might have been to bump Naismith up into the first team coaching set up with an experienced manager taking the reigns (that isn't McAvoy, he's just old). 

 

Sort of a more successful version of what JJ tried to do with Locke. 

 

Instead we've given him his chance too soon, and I think when that happens, there is no going back. You can't have him lurking about as a number 2 after having failed with the same squad. It wouldn't be right for anyone - the incoming coach, Naisy himself or the players. 

[ToadKiller Dog]

We know we struggle away most seasons ever ,so more important that we don't drop points at home .We don't look like getting points at home that is not a good sign .

Well strolled it with plain old sensible defending second half .

Once again making desperate changes at half time does not look like confidence in what they are doing .

Not good enough for us on any level.

[ducatiboy]

6 minutes ago, AC Mallin_51 said:

3 wins in 11 league games. They’ve been in charge since April, they’ve had a full pre season and brought in their own players and we look absolutely dreadful. 4 points from St Johnstone, Killie, Dundee and Motherwell. None of whom were in last seasons top 6. We are beyond abysmal 

Absolutely 100% correct, we seem to be a continuous project for management, nobody is going to tell me we can’t attract a decent manager for a club this size. Our team spine is an absolute shambles…

Edited September 3, 2023 by ducatiboy

[liam11]

I’m sure I’ve mentioned this before, but surely with Naismith being a rookie, unqualified manager the club have given themselves adequate protection in the contract meaning it’s easier to change if results are poor. 

 

If it’s a standard multi year contract that we need to pay off in full we really are ran by idiots.

[TallPaul]

41 minutes ago, Gregski51 said:

So if FM is still technically the manager, does that mean we can sack him and bring in someone else, whilst keeping Naismith in a coaching role? Wouldn't be against that. Something has to change. I feel bad for Naismith in a way, as he shouldn't have been given this position in the first place

Why would you want Naismith kept at the club? Can you name anything he has done as a coach to suggest we should continue employing him? He was even a shit B team coach they are playing better since he left and fox took over.

[TallPaul]

39 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

It's September 3rd. 

 

Hearts supporters are utter weirdos. 

 

Happy clapper 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

The most obvious Hibs fans on here are the absolute dangers who try to defend shite state of affairs and maintain our under-performance. You know who you are.

[Debut 4]

16 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

A couple of things.

 

I think what happened at the end of last season (whilst I don’t think it justified being appointed) was that Naismith added a more attacking outlook to the foundations built by Neilson. These foundations weren’t working anymore for Neilson - we had slightly crawled up our own arse and it is apparent the players/Neilson axis had broken.

 

But remember Naismith saying he wouldn’t or couldn’t change too much before the end of the season. Remember he also said it wasn’t about 3rd.

 

He gave himself a free hit and he used the foundation which had largely been successful with Neilson and gave it a new voice - play it forward more quickly.

 

I think what has happened in the summer is that he has tried to use that time to move away from that foundation - as he is entitled to do so, it is his team now. But I’m doing so he has shown his inexperience, his indecisiveness and now that there is proper pressure to win games it is apparent he hasn’t managed to do it.

 

We are simply too big and have too much at stake for this type of arrangement.

 

Second point. Of course we can get a proper manager in with experience. I don’t understand how can be so belligerent about this.
 

And please don’t say “who then?”

 

I am trying to make sensible points with someone that ripped the shit out of me since May, as it is important - I don’t know who mate but if a club of our size can’t get a decent manager with experience (not looking for the new Pep - we don’t need that) then we might as well give up.

Decent post.  No need to elaborate on your point.

 

What I will do is draw in a similar point about us not being able to get a ball playing midfielder because they cost money 😤( similar to the excuse we can’t get a decent , experienced manager)……Slattery of Motherwell, particularly in the first half, passed and probed for them, causing us all sorts of problems.  
 

It’s like the club and many fans have talked themselves into these situations and believe it.  Not saying he’s some sort of player above his level, but I’m not having we can’t find someone competent in possession to come in and give us more control in that area.  

[Rannoch]

41 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

It's September 3rd. 

 

Hearts supporters are utter weirdos. 

 

Obviously you weren’t at the match.

[TallPaul]

5 minutes ago, liam11 said:

I’m sure I’ve mentioned this before, but surely with Naismith being a rookie, unqualified manager the club have given themselves adequate protection in the contract meaning it’s easier to change if results are poor. 

 

If it’s a standard multi year contract that we need to pay off in full we really are ran by idiots.

I think we can safely say the latter is true 

[LarrysRightFoot]

Is Chris Wilder still out of work? 

[the posh bit]

11 minutes ago, AC Mallin_51 said:

3 wins in 11 league games. They’ve been in charge since April, they’ve had a full pre season and brought in their own players and we look absolutely dreadful. 4 points from St Johnstone, Killie, Dundee and Motherwell. None of whom were in last seasons top 6. We are beyond abysmal 

 

He needs more time. We got into this mess by the people making decisions reacting to hysterical muppets. We shouldn't be making similarly bad decisions.