B Team 2023/24

[Mikey1874]

Rathie, Wilson, Denholm with the first team tonight. All second half subs.

[Footballfirst]

Good result, performance less so.  The first 20 mins were pretty even despite Hearts early goal, then Hearts got control up to half time with two further goals.  All looked very comfortable but it was not to be.

 

CSS pushed on down the flanks and Hearts started to creak defensively. Their two goals in as many minutes early in the half only served to add to the anxiety and Hearts could have conceded more. It was only in the last 15 mins that they got a semblance of control back again, even going down to 10 men.

 

Too many misplaced  diagonal passes and too many players found wanting when it came to physical contact. They will have to learn and go again.

 

I assume that Rathie will be back for Saturday with Flatman suspended. It might suit Flatman to get a game against Leeds anyway.

[tazhearts]

I thought Flatman looked decent and physically looks ready to make the step up.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Good result, performance less so.  The first 20 mins were pretty even despite Hearts early goal, then Hearts got control up to half time with two further goals.  All looked very comfortable but it was not to be.

 

CSS pushed on down the flanks and Hearts started to creak defensively. Their two goals in as many minutes early in the half only served to add to the anxiety and Hearts could have conceded more. It was only in the last 15 mins that they got a semblance of control back again, even going down to 10 men.

 

Too many misplaced  diagonal passes and too many players found wanting when it came to physical contact. They will have to learn and go again.

 

I assume that Rathie will be back for Saturday with Flatman suspended. It might suit Flatman to get a game against Leeds anyway.

Looking forward to seeing the B Team on Saturday with them being down the borders

[Niemi’s gloves]

After Gala on Saturday, its Brechin in the challenge cup away next Tuesday. Hopefully Liam Fox will get most or all  of the players he wants, particularly Luke Rathie who was missed tonight. Eligibility is a bit different so we may see Harry Stone and Aidan Denholm in the squad for that one. 

[Mikey1874]

Agree it was disappointing overall.

 

We did score 3 really good goals, hopefully everyone will see soon. (And should have got a clear penalty at 3-0).

[Chuck Berry]

Good result in the end, this was a step up in quality from what the B team have faced this season so far. Clinical first half but CSS changed things around at HT and all of a sudden it was 3-2.  Recovered well enough to see the game out, with 10 men, just. Crowd about 250.

[HMFC01]

Good entertaining match.   

 

First half Hearts clinical with their chances.   First goal a good high cross out wide near the touch line met a good time run  at the back post.   Couple of other decent goals. 

 

Second half awful from Hearts but good for CSS.   2-3 and a red card for being sloppy and amateur.   Couple of Hearts players with an attitude to their own CB.  20 and 22,  amateur behaviour.   

 

Lucky result.   Could have been a draw. 

[tazhearts]

What is really poor from Hearts is the information provided about the B team / full time youth players.

 

There is literally zero information about the players on the website with only about 8 players even listed.

 

They didn't put out the team lines on Twitter so when you're at the game you have no idea who the players are.

 

It's surely not that hard to list all the players on the website with their squad numbers and provide some info about them life their age, position, when the joined Hearts etc.

 

 

[Niemi’s gloves]

15 minutes ago, tazhearts said:

What is really poor from Hearts is the information provided about the B team / full time youth players.

 

There is literally zero information about the players on the website with only about 8 players even listed.

 

They didn't put out the team lines on Twitter so when you're at the game you have no idea who the players are.

 

It's surely not that hard to list all the players on the website with their squad numbers and provide some info about them life their age, position, when the joined Hearts etc.

 

 

Some truth in this. Hopefully the website will get updated with full squads soon. Another issue is that squad numbers are a bit random: I think McLuckie, Nair and Stevenson all had different numbers tonight compared to Friday. 

[Footballfirst]

3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

I am intrigued to see part of the name of the sub goalkeeper.

 

The best match I can find would be Jack McConnell, a 2004 keeper who was with Rangers B last season.  I don't know if he has been released though.

[HMFC01]

30 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I am intrigued to see part of the name of the sub goalkeeper.

 

The best match I can find would be Jack McConnell, a 2004 keeper who was with Rangers B last season.  I don't know if he has been released though.

 

The keeper warming up looked about 5 ft 9, dark hair.   Quick look at his rangers pic, it could've been him.   I'm guessing, never seen or heard of him until you mentioned him. 

[Niemi’s gloves]

2 hours ago, HMFC01 said:

Good entertaining match.   

 

First half Hearts clinical with their chances.   First goal a good high cross out wide near the touch line met a good time run  at the back post.   Couple of other decent goals. 

 

Second half awful from Hearts but good for CSS.   2-3 and a red card for being sloppy and amateur.   Couple of Hearts players with an attitude to their own CB.  20 and 22,  amateur behaviour.   

 

Lucky result.   Could have been a draw. 

Not sure what you mean by an “attitude to their own CB”. The two you mention (by number) are relatively young players (2006s) making the transition from the under-18s to the B team while the two CBs are both a couple of years older. Bit surprising if anything untoward but I guess the coaches will deal with it if necessary.

[Sooks]

6 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Good result, performance less so.  The first 20 mins were pretty even despite Hearts early goal, then Hearts got control up to half time with two further goals.  All looked very comfortable but it was not to be.

 

CSS pushed on down the flanks and Hearts started to creak defensively. Their two goals in as many minutes early in the half only served to add to the anxiety and Hearts could have conceded more. It was only in the last 15 mins that they got a semblance of control back again, even going down to 10 men.

 

Too many misplaced  diagonal passes and too many players found wanting when it came to physical contact. They will have to learn and go again.

 

I assume that Rathie will be back for Saturday with Flatman suspended. It might suit Flatman to get a game against Leeds anyway.

 

6 hours ago, tazhearts said:

I thought Flatman looked decent and physically looks ready to make the step up.

I had heard a lot of good things about Flatman in previous seasons , some of it on here . Hope I do get to see what sort of player he is on Sunday . Looking forward to seeing what sort of player Wilson is too 

[Prince Buaben]

Lads would have learnt a lot last night. Despite taking the lead early it was tight between both teams but Hearts then took control and looked to be cruising. Second half Civil showed they were a good side. They knew the bobbles of the pitch as well and with some naive defending from crosses they quickly found themselves back in the game. 

 

A lot of the B teams second half issues seemed to come from long diagonal or high balls out wide but the Civil defence (especially Balatoni) took care of that easy and most of the joy came from ball on the deck football and quick counter attack.

 

Didn't think the officials were great and it was 2 silly bookings from Flatman showing a little naiveness near the end but they held out.

[RealMaroonCF]

I think Flatman has a long way to go. He certainly looks a unit but last night he mumped at rocco the whole game when his own performance was dodgy as his feet aren't fast enoigh for players good on the deck. As captain I didn't hear him once inspire or motivate the guys round him. If didn't get sent off he and rocco were going to come to blows.

 

Mcluckie was superb first half but css turned it at half time and we basically held on.

 

Ref wasn't great , neither was dug out side lines man who was giving decisions to prevent himself having to run back up the line. Not fit for purpose

[Mikey1874]

Attendance confirmed as 210. 

 

CSS say there's a lost bank card at the bar. 

[moz]

10 hours ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

After Gala on Saturday, its Brechin in the challenge cup away next Tuesday. Hopefully Liam Fox will get most or all  of the players he wants, particularly Luke Rathie who was missed tonight. Eligibility is a bit different so we may see Harry Stone and Aidan Denholm in the squad for that one. 

Will be a strange one for the Kirk household......Mak playing for the B team and dad Andy managing Brechin !

 

[FionaHmfc]

26 minutes ago, RealMaroonCF said:

I think Flatman has a long way to go. He certainly looks a unit but last night he mumped at rocco the whole game when his own performance was dodgy as his feet aren't fast enoigh for players good on the deck. As captain I didn't hear him once inspire or motivate the guys round him. If didn't get sent off he and rocco were going to come to blows.

 

Mcluckie was superb first half but css turned it at half time and we basically held on.

 

Ref wasn't great , neither was dug out side lines man who was giving decisions to prevent himself having to run back up the line. Not fit for purpose

From right where we were sitting Callum asked Rocco to track a runner twice and he never done it. Second time Callum asked Rocco shouted something back along the lines of f-off and Callum told him to just listen in the first place. Don’t think there was much in it. Silly sending off from Callum but probably stemmed from frustration with some of his teammates 

[Footballfirst]

Flatman's 2nd yellow (photo by Mark Brown)

 

[Homme]

27 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Flatman's 2nd yellow (photo by Mark Brown)

 

 

No complaints there then. Silly.

[Mikey1874]

The first goal. Great cross after good build up play. 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Mikey1874

[Portable Badger]

43 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Flatman's 2nd yellow (photo by Mark Brown)

 

Callum should change his name to Scott Brown then he’d get away with stuff like that.

 

Looks fair enough for a 2nd going by that

[Mikey1874]

The bench. Donald Park was out of shot chatting to fans. (Photo by Fiona McGinty).

 

This is the 2nd half tactic of launching goal kick outs to the left wing. 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Mikey1874

[Footballfirst]

No handball given against Conrad Balatoni playing basketball, either by the ref or the nearside lino.

 

[Mikey1874]

 

[Prehen]

I noticed Rangers beat Everton last night in their Best v Best program, which replaces their lowland league involvement. From the match report, looks like Everton brought up an u18s team at best. This got me thinking whether they will regret the decision. Best v Best might work if their opponents bring strong line ups. Already starting to hear real grumbles that a mistake has been made, both from coaches and players.

[jamboinglasgow]

54 minutes ago, Prehen said:

I noticed Rangers beat Everton last night in their Best v Best program, which replaces their lowland league involvement. From the match report, looks like Everton brought up an u18s team at best. This got me thinking whether they will regret the decision. Best v Best might work if their opponents bring strong line ups. Already starting to hear real grumbles that a mistake has been made, both from coaches and players.

 

Rangers quit in a strop. I do agree I think they have regretted it. The friendly system that they go for may mean you are playing bigger teams but miss the competitive edge that Lowland league football brings. Still hope B teams continue next season as I think Hearts have really done it well and benefit from it, but suspect with the conference league off the table, Lowland league wont have them back next season.

[Mikey1874]

14 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Rangers quit in a strop. I do agree I think they have regretted it. The friendly system that they go for may mean you are playing bigger teams but miss the competitive edge that Lowland league football brings. Still hope B teams continue next season as I think Hearts have really done it well and benefit from it, but suspect with the conference league off the table, Lowland league wont have them back next season.

 

There are questions about the level when Rangers are in the Champions League. But you play against adults and the Lowland teams do offer a degree of challenge certainly for likes of Hearts youngsters at start of careers.

[Prehen]

30 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

There are questions about the level when Rangers are in the Champions League. But you play against adults and the Lowland teams do offer a degree of challenge certainly for likes of Hearts youngsters at start of careers.

 

46 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Rangers quit in a strop. I do agree I think they have regretted it. The friendly system that they go for may mean you are playing bigger teams but miss the competitive edge that Lowland league football brings. Still hope B teams continue next season as I think Hearts have really done it well and benefit from it, but suspect with the conference league off the table, Lowland league wont have them back next season.

Agree with both of you. Reserve league is likely the best answer if other clubs could fund a tea. But Lowland Leage offers our best young players a competitive environment to thrive. You only need to look at the teams transformation from this time last year through to Xmas 22, and where they are now and how they play. So for Hearts it is working, the next stage is to see how many can make the next jump.

[Mikey1874]

U18s league starts today

 

Hearts play Motherwell at Dalziel Park 2pm.

[Prehen]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

U18s league starts today

 

Hearts play Motherwell at Dalziel Park 2pm.

Going to be a really young and hugely inexperienced side today and the season ahead.

[Mikey1874]

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Mikey1874

[TheBigO]

22 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Rangers quit in a strop. I do agree I think they have regretted it. The friendly system that they go for may mean you are playing bigger teams but miss the competitive edge that Lowland league football brings. Still hope B teams continue next season as I think Hearts have really done it well and benefit from it, but suspect with the conference league off the table, Lowland league wont have them back next season.

The MASSIVE thing about the B league, or any colt team approach is you are getting 30odd games in to your squad.  They're learning to play 2/3 games per week that mean something to the opposition.  You are not ever getting that in a friendly setup or even a reserve league. You only get it to an extent in under-age leages like the 18s.

 

That is priceless imo.  Yes, I get playing against elite opponents, but I hope by 18/19 our boys have been doing that - get them doing this as much as we can as they grow up and then get them learning the grind and the mentality required, the mental strength needed.

 

It's why I was not against the idea of the set ups proposed.  Our B teams being able to reach L1 in Scotland I think would be massively beneficial.  Hey, maybe not to Brechin or bloody Montrose or whatever, but for the game as a whole in Scotland having our best teams producing the best players we can?!??! Absolutely.

 

The other option on the table is entirely this: "work it out yourself."

 

Our game is a joke

[tazhearts]

On 26/07/2023 at 10:33, Mikey1874 said:

The bench. Donald Park was out of shot chatting to fans. (Photo by Fiona McGinty).

 

This is the 2nd half tactic of launching goal kick outs to the left wing. 

 

I'd love to know what all these people do!  If you count Donald Park these was like 10 - 11 staff / coaching on the bench.  Including two guys with laptops.

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Prehen said:

Going to be a really young and hugely inexperienced side today and the season ahead.

I think the club has already demonstrated those intentions, with the selections for the first team friendlies and B Team games, that certain players will be pushed on.

 

The U18s allows 2006s or younger to play this season. I'm a little surprised that Gus Stevenson (2007) has been selected with a B Team game tomorrow, unless Macaulay Tait or Finlay Pollock are ready to return from injury or possibly that Ethan Drysdale will start. 

 

On the bench, it would appear that Lucas Smith must have signed up as he is no longer listed as a trialist. It is good to see Alfie Hutchison (2009) being quoted as he was eligible to play U14 last season.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Footballfirst

[jamboinglasgow]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I think the club has already demonstrated its intentions, with the selections for the first team friendlies and B Team games, that certain players will be pushed on.

 

The U18s allows 2006s or younger to play this season. I'm a little surprised that Gus Stevenson (2007) has been selected with a B Team game tomorrow, unless Macaulay Tait or Finlay Pollock are ready to return from injury or that Ethan Drysdale will start. 

 

On the bench, it would appear that Lucas Smith must have signed up as he is no longer listed as a trialist. It is good to see Alfie Hutchison (2009) being quoted as he was eligible to play U14 last season.

 

Seeing Alfie Osborne on the bench makes laugh and feel old at the same time as he was in the video about Hearts partnership with box soccer 2017 as an 8 year old.

 

 

[Footballfirst]

The U18s drew 1-1, with Gus Stevenson scoring Hearts goal.

[Gorgierools]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

The U18s drew 1-1, with Gus Stevenson scoring Hearts goal.

Good game?

[Footballfirst]

Just now, Gorgierools said:

Good game?

Don't know. I wasn't there.

[Gorgierools]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

Don't know. I wasn't there.

👍

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, Gorgierools said:

👍

 

Andrew@awayonsaturday1

FT:@MotherwellFC 1-1 @WeeJambos  - a point apiece as the hosts equalised in injury-time from a free-kick just outside the box. Matty Gillies then clipped the bar as Hearts went straight down the other end and nearly won it.

[Gorgierools]

Shame. Good start though.

[Prehen]

4 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Seeing Alfie Osborne on the bench makes laugh and feel old at the same time as he was in the video about Hearts partnership with box soccer 2017 as an 8 year old.

 

 

Alfie Osborne and Noah Carstairs were the young stars back in 2017. Noah now left and Alfie struggling for game time. The old adage it is marathon not a sprint is so true.

[Chuck Berry]

5 hours ago, TheBigO said:

The MASSIVE thing about the B league, or any colt team approach is you are getting 30odd games in to your squad.  They're learning to play 2/3 games per week that mean something to the opposition.  You are not ever getting that in a friendly setup or even a reserve league. You only get it to an extent in under-age leages like the 18s.

 

That is priceless imo.  Yes, I get playing against elite opponents, but I hope by 18/19 our boys have been doing that - get them doing this as much as we can as they grow up and then get them learning the grind and the mentality required, the mental strength needed.

 

It's why I was not against the idea of the set ups proposed.  Our B teams being able to reach L1 in Scotland I think would be massively beneficial.  Hey, maybe not to Brechin or bloody Montrose or whatever, but for the game as a whole in Scotland having our best teams producing the best players we can?!??! Absolutely.

 

The other option on the table is entirely this: "work it out yourself."

 

Our game is a joke

 

B teams in the Pyramid system is not the issue, the issue was dropping them directly into the Lowland League ahead of 200+ other clubs.  The less said about the ludicrous Conference League the better, that should have seen the back of the incompetent puppet Maxwell, he certainly tried to make a joke of our game.

 

IMO a proper reserve league should return where these kids play against and with senior adult players. However it seems most other clubs would rather spend the cash elsewhere.

 

Otherwise, there's only ever going to be 4 clubs interested in B teams, and it's far from proven that B teams are needed in order to produce better players.   England's youth systems are booming, they're bossing it at under age levels, Euro U21 Champs, they don't have B teams but they do have a strong U23 set-up.

 

 

[Niemi’s gloves]

1 hour ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

B teams in the Pyramid system is not the issue, the issue was dropping them directly into the Lowland League ahead of 200+ other clubs.  The less said about the ludicrous Conference League the better, that should have seen the back of the incompetent puppet Maxwell, he certainly tried to make a joke of our game.

 

IMO a proper reserve league should return where these kids play against and with senior adult players. However it seems most other clubs would rather spend the cash elsewhere.

 

Otherwise, there's only ever going to be 4 clubs interested in B teams, and it's far from proven that B teams are needed in order to produce better players.   England's youth systems are booming, they're bossing it at under age levels, Euro U21 Champs, they don't have B teams but they do have a strong U23 set-up.

 

 

In my view the “start at the bottom” argument is bogus. It’s simply something trotted out by supporters of non-SPFL teams who don’t like seeing their favourites being beaten by 16 to 19 year olds. Any sensible pyramid needs to have a mechanism by which new teams can be placed at an appropriate level in relation to things like the level of their support and ability of their players. Which is why phoenix clubs in England don’t “start at the bottom”.
 

The real issue is simply whether the pyramid should have B teams or not. If you believe that, on balance, it would be a good thing then the question is what is the right level for B teams to start at. If Hibs had chosen to field a B team this season, should they really be asked to play at Tier 9 alongside Linton Hotspur, a team that played last season in division three of the Edinburgh amateurs?

Edited July 28, 2023 by Niemi’s gloves

[Chuck Berry]

4 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

In my view the “start at the bottom” argument is bogus. It’s simply something trotted out by supporters of non-SPFL teams who don’t like seeing their favourites being beaten by 16 to 19 year olds. Any sensible pyramid needs to have a mechanism by which new teams can be placed at an appropriate level in relation to things like the level of their support and ability of their players. Which is why phoenix clubs in England don’t “start at the bottom”.
 

The real issue is simply whether the pyramid should have B teams or not. If you believe that, on balance, it would be a good thing then the question is what is the right level for B teams to start at. If Hibs had chosen to field a B team this season, should they really be asked to play at Tier 9 alongside Linton Hotspur, a team that played last season in division three of the Edinburgh amateurs?

 

"....who don’t like seeing their favourites being beaten by 16 to 19 year olds."  that's just made-up by yourself.  I have yet to meet anyone in the lower reaches of the Pyramid who would object to B teams joining, the only issue is that they join at the bottom like any other new club. That's also a view held by most clubs.  Afterall, there are reserve sides already in the Pyramid structure.

 

Why wouldn't you want your 16-17-18-19 year olds starting out against Bathgate Thistle, Fauldhouse United etc, if it's about development and playing against adults then there you have it, and if they're good they win the league at a canter and move up a level. Linton Hotspur haven't even kicked a competitive ball yet.

 

AFC Wimbledon started at the very bottom tier of the English Pyramid taking 2,000 to games where clubs averaged 50. That was partly the reason why England then moved onto placing "phoenix" clubs at an appropriate level, I can't see Hearts B taking 2,000 to a game somehow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Niemi’s gloves]

4 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

"....who don’t like seeing their favourites being beaten by 16 to 19 year olds."  that's just made-up by yourself.  I have yet to meet anyone in the lower reaches of the Pyramid who would object to B teams joining, the only issue is that they join at the bottom like any other new club. That's also a view held by most clubs.  Afterall, there are reserve sides already in the Pyramid structure.

 

Why wouldn't you want your 16-17-18-19 year olds starting out against Bathgate Thistle, Fauldhouse United etc, if it's about development and playing against adults then there you have it, and if they're good they win the league at a canter and move up a level. Linton Hotspur haven't even kicked a competitive ball yet.

 

AFC Wimbledon started at the very bottom tier of the English Pyramid taking 2,000 to games where clubs averaged 50. That was partly the reason why England then moved onto placing "phoenix" clubs at an appropriate level, I can't see Hearts B taking 2,000 to a game somehow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As things stand, on the “start at the bottom and work your way up” principle, Ross County or Dundee could start B teams at tier 6, and Aberdeen at tier 7. But for Hearts or Hibs it would be tier 9 and for Rangers or Celtic it would be tier 10. Doesn’t make too much sense to me. 

[Chuck Berry]

Just now, Niemi’s gloves said:

As things stand, on the “start at the bottom and work your way up” principle, Ross County or Dundee could start B teams at tier 6, and Aberdeen at tier 7. But for Hearts or Hibs it would be tier 9 and for Rangers or Celtic it would be tier 10. Doesn’t make too much sense to me. 

 

That's a fair point, however that also reflects strength in depth of those leagues.   A tier 10 club in the West of Scotland (9 in East) is probably as strong as a Tier 7 in the North Juniors (if not stronger).  Remember it's about player development for these B teams first, not neccesarily promotion upwards.

 

It's probably not going to happen anyway. However there's a crunch coming as the Lowland League have indicated this is the last season of B teams.  My own opinion is the league made a mistake admitting them 3 seasons ago and the cat is already out of the bag.  Allow Celtic and Hearts B to remain (if they want) and stay at 18 clubs, open up the league to three relegation/promotion spots from below and if either B team finish in the bottom 3 they go down.  The league will continue to strengthen as the like of Gretna and Edinburgh Uni go down, to be replaced by Darvel, Auchinleck Talbot etc.

 

Any new B team must make an application to West or East of Scotland Leagues. 

[Footballfirst]

12 hours ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

That's a fair point, however that also reflects strength in depth of those leagues.   A tier 10 club in the West of Scotland (9 in East) is probably as strong as a Tier 7 in the North Juniors (if not stronger).  Remember it's about player development for these B teams first, not neccesarily promotion upwards.

 

It's probably not going to happen anyway. However there's a crunch coming as the Lowland League have indicated this is the last season of B teams.  My own opinion is the league made a mistake admitting them 3 seasons ago and the cat is already out of the bag.  Allow Celtic and Hearts B to remain (if they want) and stay at 18 clubs, open up the league to three relegation/promotion spots from below and if either B team finish in the bottom 3 they go down.  The league will continue to strengthen as the like of Gretna and Edinburgh Uni go down, to be replaced by Darvel, Auchinleck Talbot etc.

 

Any new B team must make an application to West or East of Scotland Leagues. 

Hearts U18s would be better playing in the EOS Leagues rather than playing Motherwell U18s as they did yesterday.  The U18s would hold their own in the EOS Premier division alongside Musselburgh, Sauchie, Jeanfield, Penicuik and Broxburn etc., as has been shown in the pre season friendly results.

 

That would offer accelerated development for 15, 16 and 17 year olds playing against adults on variable grass and all weather surfaces.