What is woke and how does it impact you?

[il Duce McTarkin]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

My actual therapist has a different view about this . I spoke to him briefly about this forum and my “ participation “ on it . I mean “briefly “ as his time costs a few bob . Anyway he felt that I was getting too worked up and attaching too much importance to this forum and arguments and debates on it . I was seeking some form of “ validation “  , being “ noticed “ and yes maybe “ respected “ 

 

 

“ it’s not real life those people mean nothing to you , it’s irrelevant about their opinions or views , it’s yours views which matter and how you view yourself , these people are just anonymous strangers , you have a right to your views , even if people may not like them or be critical or them , your opinions are just as valid as anyone else, you have a right to be accepted “ 
 

Now that’s the truth . Basically not to get worked up about things on this , as it adds another layer of  stress for me , and yes some of it is self inflicted . But in summary the forum is really irrelevant to my life . To maintain Better heathy mental well being it’s better that I limit my time on it .  I think he’s right . 
 

 

 

Good post.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

Good post.

👍

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

“ it’s not real life those people mean nothing to you , it’s irrelevant about their opinions or views , it’s yours views which matter and how you view yourself , these people are just anonymous strangers , you have a right to your views , even if people may not like them or be critical or them , your opinions are just as valid as anyone else, you have a right to be accepted “ 

 

That's pretty much exactly how I see this place, you don't need to avoid it, just adapt.

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

No, what is pathetic is that you are apparently able to charachter assassinate people with gay abandon...and face zero consequences.

 

The post in question was purile and crass, least I'd expect from a grown up such as yourself is an acknowledgement that were.out of order and offer an apology.

Please just ignore him. He turns every thread into a transphobic rant and really is best ignored. I'm sort of glad that he is full of impotent rage against me, leaves others alone. 

[Dick Dastardly]

42 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

My actual therapist has a different view about this . I spoke to him briefly about this forum and my “ participation “ on it . I mean “briefly “ as his time costs a few bob . Anyway he felt that I was getting too worked up and attaching too much importance to this forum and arguments and debates on it . I was seeking some form of “ validation “  , being “ noticed “ and yes maybe “ respected “ 

 

 

“ it’s not real life those people mean nothing to you , it’s irrelevant about their opinions or views , it’s yours views which matter and how you view yourself , these people are just anonymous strangers , you have a right to your views , even if people may not like them or be critical or them , your opinions are just as valid as anyone else, you have a right to be accepted “ 
 

Now that’s the truth . Basically not to get worked up about things on this , as it adds another layer of  stress for me , and yes some of it is self inflicted . But in summary the forum is really irrelevant to my life . To maintain Better heathy mental well being it’s better that I limit my time on it .  I think he’s right . 
 

 

This works both ways though. Other people are entitled to have a different view from you, or from anyone, and those opinions should be treated in the same regard. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

48 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

That's pretty much exactly how I see this place, you don't need to avoid it, just adapt.

👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

The hater of all things woke...getting his arse kicked  by a ginger Scot....good on the guy 

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1569603076557774848?s=20&t=rHadMIg5A6xUqQLgtHE0wA

 

 

[ri Alban]

9 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

The hater of all things woke...getting his arse kicked  by a ginger Scot....good on the guy 

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1569603076557774848?s=20&t=rHadMIg5A6xUqQLgtHE0wA

 

 

?  I don't have Twitter, bud. Is it P.Morgan?

[ri Alban]

On 06/09/2022 at 10:05, JudyJudyJudy said:

My actual therapist has a different view about this . I spoke to him briefly about this forum and my “ participation “ on it . I mean “briefly “ as his time costs a few bob . Anyway he felt that I was getting too worked up and attaching too much importance to this forum and arguments and debates on it . I was seeking some form of “ validation “  , being “ noticed “ and yes maybe “ respected “ 

 

 

“ it’s not real life those people mean nothing to you , it’s irrelevant about their opinions or views , it’s yours views which matter and how you view yourself , these people are just anonymous strangers , you have a right to your views , even if people may not like them or be critical or them , your opinions are just as valid as anyone else, you have a right to be accepted “ 
 

Now that’s the truth . Basically not to get worked up about things on this , as it adds another layer of  stress for me , and yes some of it is self inflicted . But in summary the forum is really irrelevant to my life . To maintain Better heathy mental well being it’s better that I limit my time on it .  I think he’s right . 
 

 

👍 

 

 

 

 

But you do know, you've given me more ammunition.

[Sooks]

Just like every other word or symbol of a just cause it has been *******ised by those for whom it suits the status quo to persist to the point where it is un useable 

 

It was born out of a struggle against oppression because it is an American English slang term for woken or awake used in areas where its subsequent symbolism has had the most resonance 

 

Sadly all banner terms and symbols like this go the same way no matter how good a cause they were coined in support of

 

What happens is the injustices of the situation that led to their perpetuation becomes watered down in hindsight and the symbols then appear sensationalist

 

Woke was an important symbol for a lot of people who suffer social injustice and inequality

 

theres another one social justice ………… apparently wanting such a thing is worthy of ridicule

 

 

[Sooks]

Just now, Sooks said:

Just like every other word or symbol of a just cause it has been *******ised by those for whom it suits the status quo to persist to the point where it is un useable 

 

It was born out of a struggle against oppression because it is an American English slang term for woken or awake used in areas where its subsequent symbolism has had the most resonance 

 

Sadly all banner terms and symbols like this go the same way no matter how good a cause they were coined in support of

 

What happens is the injustices of the situation that led to their perpetuation becomes watered down in hindsight and the symbols then appear sensationalist

 

Woke was an important symbol for a lot of people who suffer social injustice and inequality

 

theres another one social justice ………… apparently wanting such a thing is worthy of ridicule

 

 

Why is b a s t a r d i s a t I o n filtered

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

?  I don't have Twitter, bud. Is it P.Morgan?

Yes 👍 

[TexasAndy]

I only ever hear this expression 'woke' in the media.  It's not something that ever comes up in pub chat, friends chat, family chat.  It seems to me the sort of people who actively use this term are people who are uncomfortable in the modern world and hanker back to a time of segregation, prejudice and rampant racism.  Basically your average Daily Mail reader.  

[Hansel]

32 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

I only ever hear this expression 'woke' in the media.  It's not something that ever comes up in pub chat, friends chat, family chat.  It seems to me the sort of people who actively use this term are people who are uncomfortable in the modern world and hanker back to a time of segregation, prejudice and rampant racism.  Basically your average Daily Mail reader.  

Yeah. It's become a word used by the right to ridicule the left. 

[Dawnrazor]

25 minutes ago, Hansel said:

Yeah. It's become a word used by the right to ridicule the left. 

Not necessarily true, Bill Maher uses it the word often, I'm not sure you could describe Bill Maher as "the right".

 

https://fb.watch/fyDRhaGaKH/

 

There's others where he talks about the "woke left" damaging the Democratic vote.

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, TexasAndy said:

I only ever hear this expression 'woke' in the media.  It's not something that ever comes up in pub chat, friends chat, family chat.  It seems to me the sort of people who actively use this term are people who are uncomfortable in the modern world and hanker back to a time of segregation, prejudice and rampant racism.  Basically your average Daily Mail reader.  

 

I think that is probably highly dependent on the circles and pubs that you move around in ........................... the word itself is now mainstream but it has its roots in American English colloquialisms of predominantly poor ethnically African areas of the US 

[Smoked-Glass]

Jordan Peterson is a hero for standing up to a lot of the woke stuff.  I'd recommend watching his videos 

[Unknown user]

15 minutes ago, Smoked-Glass said:

Jordan Peterson is a hero for standing up to a lot of the woke stuff.  I'd recommend watching his videos 

 

That's the boy from The Daily Wire, who, seemingly like most right wing press these days, don't stand up to scrutiny

 

According to fact checkers:

"some stories shared by The Daily Wire are unverified, and The Daily Wire sometimes misstates facts to advance a partisan view"

 

So who exactly is he standing up to, and for?

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

That's the boy from The Daily Wire, who, seemingly like most right wing press these days, don't stand up to scrutiny

 

According to fact checkers:

"some stories shared by The Daily Wire are unverified, and The Daily Wire sometimes misstates facts to advance a partisan view"

 

So who exactly is he standing up to, and for?

 

Standing up to hose who suffer or speak out against social injustices like racism 

[Smoked-Glass]

8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

That's the boy from The Daily Wire, who, seemingly like most right wing press these days, don't stand up to scrutiny

 

According to fact checkers:

"some stories shared by The Daily Wire are unverified, and The Daily Wire sometimes misstates facts to advance a partisan view"

 

So who exactly is he standing up to, and for?

Standing up for free speech and common sense.  Also was on question time a while ago and made our country look a bit silly.  Tbf the laws in USA were also silly. 

 

Big fan 

[Unknown user]

23 minutes ago, Smoked-Glass said:

Standing up for free speech and common sense.  Also was on question time a while ago and made our country look a bit silly.  Tbf the laws in USA were also silly. 

 

Big fan 

Well that's vague.

Funny though, people normally get grief from the right on here for making the UK look silly, odd that you're so supportive.

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, TexasAndy said:

I only ever hear this expression 'woke' in the media.  It's not something that ever comes up in pub chat, friends chat, family chat.  It seems to me the sort of people who actively use this term are people who are uncomfortable in the modern world and hanker back to a time of segregation, prejudice and rampant racism.  Basically your average Daily Mail reader.  

I don't think criticising the wilder shores of wokery necessarily means you hanker for segregation, prejudice and rampant racism. Hanker for a world where a woman can call herself a woman without being ostracised or sacked perhaps.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Francis Albert

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't think criticising the wilder shores of wokery necessarily means you hanker for segregation, prejudice and rampant racism. 

 

Criticising the wilder shores of any movement is different from *******ising a word that was symbolic of the fight against racial prejudice and quasi apartheid in modern society through things like institutional racial profiling 

[Unknown user]

19 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't think criticising the wilder shores of wokery necessarily means you hanker for segregation, prejudice and rampant racism. Hanker for a world where a woman can call herself a woman without being ostracised or sacked perhaps.

 

Where are women being sacked for calling themselves women?

[Francis Albert]

13 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Criticising the wilder shores of any movement is different from *******ising a word that was symbolic of the fight against racial prejudice and quasi apartheid in modern society through things like institutional racial profiling 

Sorry your post was censored so I could not read  what you said was being done to the word.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

31 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't think criticising the wilder shores of wokery necessarily means you hanker for segregation, prejudice and rampant racism. Hanker for a world where a woman can call herself a woman without being ostracised or sacked perhaps.

Agreed.  

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Sorry your post was censored so I could not read  what you said was being done to the word.

 

 

Okay in that case I will simplify 

 

The word woke has its roots in the slang dialect of under privileged African American communities and became a symbol of their attempts to combat the prejudice they suffer

 

Just because far more privileged people have decided to lampoon it does not denigrate the importance of the symbol and what it came to stand for 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

25 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Okay in that case I will simplify 

 

The word woke has its roots in the slang dialect of under privileged African American communities and became a symbol of their attempts to combat the prejudice they suffer

 

Just because far more privileged people have decided to lampoon it does not denigrate the importance of the symbol and what it came to stand for 

 

 

No need to patronise. I did not ask for simplification. I just literally couldn't read what you posted. 

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

No need to patronise. I did not ask for simplification. I just literally couldn't read what you posted. 

 

Who is patronising you I was simplifying what i posted because you said you could not understand it due to the swear filter starring out a part of a word

[Francis Albert]

41 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Where are women being sacked for calling themselves women?,

The Guardian columnist Suzanne Moore was effedctively saked when 200 of the newspaper's staff objected to her arguing in her column for the right of women to call themselves women and organise under that word. JK Rowling lost millions and her career was damaged because she preferred the word women to some of the alternatives used in extreme wokism.

[Gizmo]

2 hours ago, Smoked-Glass said:

Jordan Peterson is a hero for standing up to a lot of the woke stuff.  I'd recommend watching his videos 

It's sad that some people, mostly young men, seeking some sort of guidance or path in their lives latch onto this guy. Just because he uses a lot of words does not mean he offers anything of substance whatsoever.  

Holds some very dubious views and courts controversy because it pays. Another right-wing grifter. 

[Sooks]

9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The Guardian columnist Suzanne Moore was effedctively saked when 200 of the newspaper's staff objected to her arguing in her column for the right of women to call themselves women and organise under that word. JK Rowling lost millions and her career was damaged because she preferred the word women to some of the alternatives used in extreme wokism.

 

Suzanne quit and Rowling was mot fired by any one

[Francis Albert]

12 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Who is patronising you I was simplifying what i posted because you said you could not understand it due to the swear filter starring out a part of a word

Could not read it. Your use of the word simplify made me feel patronised. And if so that means I was patronised. Isn't that the way it works in the outer reaches of wokery?

Edited September 15, 2022 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Suzanne quit and Rowling was mot fired by any one

That's OK then.

[Sooks]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

That's OK then.

 

Is it ?

[JudyJudyJudy]

27 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The Guardian columnist Suzanne Moore was effedctively saked when 200 of the newspaper's staff objected to her arguing in her column for the right of women to call themselves women and organise under that word. JK Rowling lost millions and her career was damaged because she preferred the word women to some of the alternatives used in extreme wokism.

Correct Moore was bullied out of her position for stating facts.  JK has been hounded by raving nutters on Twitter and they have attempted to ruin her career.  Hard luck. Shes doing better than ever. 

20 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

It's sad that some people, mostly young men, seeking some sort of guidance or path in their lives latch onto this guy. Just because he uses a lot of words does not mean he offers anything of substance whatsoever.  

Holds some very dubious views and courts controversy because it pays. Another right-wing grifter. 

Hes vile. 

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Correct Moore was bullied out of her position for stating facts.  JK has been hounded by raving nutters on Twitter and they have attempted to ruin her career.  Hard luck. Shes doing better than ever. 

Hes vile. 

Neither were fired

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

Neither were fired

But both have had threats. In particular JK 

[Sooks]

7 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

But both have had threats. In particular JK 

 

Rowling has very strong beliefs when it comes to sex and gender and many others agree with her or disagree with her to equally strong degrees

 

I will not get involved in that particular debate but the fact remains neither have been fired

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Sooks said:

Rowling has very strong fact based beliefs  when it comes to sex and gender and many others agree with her or disagree with her to equally strong degrees

 

FIFY 

 

But we shall leave it there. There another thread for that Ive heard  

[Spellczech]

21 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Rowling has very strong beliefs when it comes to sex and gender and many others agree with her or disagree with her to equally strong degrees

 

I will not get involved in that particular debate but the fact remains neither have been fired

Semantics surely? If you are a newspaper columnist and you are paid to communicate your opinion to a readership, should you really be subjected to 200 of your colleagues signing a letter against you (haven't looked up the details of the letter and cannot remember from previous exposure to this story - was it requesting she be disciplined, sacked, just noting that they do not agree? Dunno...). I think if 200 of my colleagues rounded on me, times at the staff canteen, toilets and water cooler might be a bit awkward...Therefore, it really doesn't matter if she quit, was sacked or was constructively dismissed. It was the actions of her colleagues and bosses in view of the nature of her job, that is discomforting and, well, wrong.

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Semantics surely? If you are a newspaper columnist and you are paid to communicate your opinion to a readership, should you really be subjected to 200 of your colleagues signing a letter against you (haven't looked up the details of the letter and cannot remember from previous exposure to this story - was it requesting she be disciplined, sacked, just noting that they do not agree? Dunno...). I think if 200 of my colleagues rounded on me, times at the staff canteen, toilets and water cooler might be a bit awkward...Therefore, it really doesn't matter if she quit, was sacked or was constructively dismissed. It was the actions of her colleagues and bosses in view of the nature of her job, that is discomforting and, well, wrong.

 

Otherwise known as the Joe Jordan ................. joking aside though it makes a huge difference when it comes to things like compensation redundancy and severance pay

[Spellczech]

10 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Otherwise known as the Joe Jordan ................. joking aside though it makes a huge difference when it comes to things like compensation redundancy and severance pay

Again, that is just a distraction though. There are people who are constructively dismissed who do not sue due to reputation and the risk to their future employment propects, especially in small towns and cities.

 

There are even contrary situations: I personally was once in a situation where I'd hung in at a firm hoping for redundancy and a manager changed my submission of what I did as my job. Now that is illegal, but he did it thinking he was helping me to be "confirmed in role" because I obviously didn't shout that I wanted to be made redundant! Haha. Anyway I got confirmed in role for the 50% of the job he had me down as doing and they advertised the other 50% of my job which I had been doing as a new role at 1.5 times the salary! Even worse I could not apply for the new role because people losing their jobs had first dibs! I quit the next day, but I never made a fuss about the illegality as Edinburgh is too small and the guy was actually trying to do me a favour. Anyway, it's a funny wee story but also a total distraction! Haha

Edited September 15, 2022 by Spellczech

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Again, that is just a distraction though. There are people who are constructively dismissed who do not sue due to reputation and the risk to their future employment propects, especially in small towns and cities.

 

There are even contrary situations: I personally was once in a situation where I'd hung in at a firm hoping for redundancy and a manager changed my submission of what I did as my job. Now that is illegal, but he did it thinking he was helping me to be "confirmed in role" because I obviously didn't shout that I wanted to be made redundant! Haha. Anyway I got confirmed in role for the 50% of the job he had me down as doing and they advertised the other 50% of my job which I had been doing as a new role at 1.5 times the salary! Even worse I could not apply for the new role because people losing their jobs had first dibs! I quit the next day, but I never made a fuss about the illegality as Edinburgh is too small and the guy was actually trying to do me a favour. Anyway, it's a funny wee story but also a total distraction! Haha

 

It is not a distraction though ................... the question asked of Francis Albert was who has been sacked because of their views on this and the two people he provided were not sacked

 

Employment law is a mine field and so is sex and gender but I do not really want to get too involved in a discussion on either ................................ your story is an interesting one though and it high lights the complications 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

The Guardian columnist Suzanne Moore was effedctively saked when 200 of the newspaper's staff objected to her arguing in her column for the right of women to call themselves women and organise under that word. JK Rowling lost millions and her career was damaged because she preferred the word women to some of the alternatives used in extreme wokism.

 

So neither of them were sacked for calling themselves women?

Can we just sack this one to save time?

[Spellczech]

3 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

It is not a distraction though ................... the question asked of Francis Albert was who has been sacked because of their views on this and the two people he provided were not sacked

 

Employment law is a mine field and so is sex and gender but I do not really want to get too involved in a discussion on either ................................ your story is an interesting one though and it high lights the complications 

She was, in her own opinion at least (and that is all that matters) forced to quit her job. Therefore, doesn't matter if she was sacked by her bosses, as her colleagues, possibly including the 16 year old trainee from the mailroom among the 200, forced her out...

 

The legal situation is irrelevant also, so you are right to avoid it.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Spellczech

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

She was, in her own opinion at least (and that is all that matters) forced to quit her job. Therefore, doesn't matter if she was sacked by her bosses, as her colleagues, possibly including the 16 year old trainee from the mailroom among the 200, forced her out...

 

The legal situation is irrelevant also, so you are right to avoid it.

And to be clear, he said they were sacked for calling themselves women.

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

She was, in her own opinion at least (and that is all that matters) forced to quit her job. Therefore, doesn't matter if she was sacked by her bosses, as her colleagues, possibly including the 16 year old trainee from the mailroom among the 200, forced her out...

 

The legal situation is irrelevant also, so you are right to avoid it.

 

It matters when the question asked was about being sacked ................................. neither were sacked

 

It legally makes a big difference to the rights and entitlements of the former employee 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

 

Is it ?

No. Is it OK with you? Moore was bullied out of her job by her colleagues. That paragon of liberal values the Guardian did nothing to defend her. No leaders defending free speech. Not the Guardian's finest hour.

Incidentally despite my reputation among some on here as someone somewhat to the right of Gengis Khan I have been a loyal reader of the Guardian for over 50 years. 

[Francis Albert]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

And to be clear, he said they were sacked for calling themselves women.

Shorthand. Reasonable in the circumstances. More reasonable than the suggestion that the word woke played a major part in the civil rights movement and the end of  apartheid. Maybe Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela (and Gandhi?) used the word but it did not feature much in their lexicon as I recall. Nor even in that of Stokely Carmichael. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Francis Albert