What is woke and how does it impact you?

[Spellczech]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

And to be clear, he said they were sacked for calling themselves women.

It is just loose terminology. The only pertinent part is the indisputable fact that a Guardian collumist says that she was forced out of a job she loved by colleagues who complained about her writing an opinion piece that questioned the current trend for gender fluidity. The relevant part is their motivation for doing what they did, and not what she actually said, the legal situation etc.

 

 

[Smoked-Glass]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

 

Rowling has very strong beliefs when it comes to sex and gender and many others agree with her or disagree with her to equally strong degrees

 

I will not get involved in that particular debate but the fact remains neither have been fired

I will.

 

She is bang on correct with her view. Bizarre that anyone thinks otherwise 

[Sooks]

25 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

No. Is it OK with you? Moore was bullied out of her job by her colleagues. That paragon of liberal values the Guardian did nothing to defend her. No leaders defending free speech. Not the Guardian's finest hour.

Incidentally despite my reputation among some on here as someone somewhat to the right of Gengis Khan I have been a loyal reader of the Guardian for over 50 years. 

 

Mate I do not know you from Adam and I do not want to get in to that argument as it is a whole other debate .................................... i was just pointing out that neither were sacked

 

Edited because it was not off topic as i said 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Sooks

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Mate I do not know you from Adam and I do not want to get in to that debate as it is off topic .................................... i was just pointing out that neither were sacked

Bang on topic I'd say. 

But if it is too difficult for you ... Damn now I am being patronising. Sorry.

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Bang on topic I'd say. 

But if it is too difficult for you ... Damn now I am being patronising. Sorry.

 

See my edit above

 

31 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

No. Is it OK with you? Moore was bullied out of her job by her colleagues. That paragon of liberal values the Guardian did nothing to defend her. No leaders defending free speech. Not the Guardian's finest hour.

Incidentally despite my reputation among some on here as someone somewhat to the right of Gengis Khan I have been a loyal reader of the Guardian for over 50 years. 

 

I think it is dangerous when any one assumes that they will always be aligned in opinion with any newspaper 

[Spellczech]

11 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

It matters when the question asked was about being sacked ................................. neither were sacked

 

It legally makes a big difference to the rights and entitlements of the former employee 

You rightly said before that the legality and legal definitions are a minefield. They are also an irrelevance. The law is just a blunt tool to try to settle disputes equitably ie to stop us having duels to let God decide who is right and who is wrong!. I should know, I studied it for 4 years! Basically it is about winning arguments and showing off how clever you are, and may somewhere in the background be about fairness, justice and rectitude.

 

What I'm saying is that it only matters if SHE thinks she was forced out of her job by 200 "woke" people who ganged up on her and her bosses were too afraid to counter them. The question of the legal manner of her leaving is irrelevant...

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

You rightly said before that the legality and legal definitions are a minefield. They are also an irrelevance. The law is just a blunt tool to try to settle disputes equitably ie to stop us having duels to let God decide who is right and who is wrong!. I should know, I studied it for 4 years! Basically it is about winning arguments and showing off how clever you are, and may somewhere in the background be about fairness, justice and rectitude.

 

What I'm saying is that it only matters if SHE thinks she was forced out of her job by 200 "woke" people who ganged up on her and her bosses were too afraid to counter them. The question of the legal manner of her leaving is irrelevant...

 

I do see what you are saying and in the context of what you are talking about you are correct but in this particular discussion Francis Albert was asked to name any one who was sacked for refusing to change the term that they use to refer to them selves and neither of the two people he put forward had been 

 

The legal distinction between being sacked and resigning can make a massive difference to former employees so it is not a trifling point albeit in both of Alberts proposed cases it is probably less important than to some one on the bread line struggling to heat their house and feed their family 

[Spellczech]

5 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

I do see what you are saying and in the context of what you are talking about you are correct but in this particular discussion Francis Albert was asked to name any one who was sacked for refusing to change the term that they use to refer to them selves and neither of the two people he put forward had been 

 

The legal distinction between being sacked and resigning can make a massive difference to former employees so it is not a trifling point albeit in both of Alberts proposed cases it is probably less important than to some one on the bread line struggling to heat their house and feed their family 

That is a very specific question and I doubt many people could answer it.

 

I do know that an email came round from HR at the company I'm currently working at, asking us to put our pronoun into our email signature to say how we'd like to be addressed. I haven't paid any attention as to whether anyone has done it if I'm honest but I haven't done it myself and haven't seen any in passing...I really don't know if it was HR being woke or just trying to tick another box for the "good employer" awards checklist...

[Korky]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

No. Is it OK with you? Moore was bullied out of her job by her colleagues. That paragon of liberal values the Guardian did nothing to defend her. No leaders defending free speech. Not the Guardian's finest hour.

Incidentally despite my reputation among some on here as someone somewhat to the right of Gengis Khan I have been a loyal reader of the Guardian for over 50 years. 

The newspaper that in an online editorial described the Cameron’s grief at the death of their disabled son as ‘privileged pain’!
(Subsequently deleted following deserved outrage!)

 

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, Korky said:

The newspaper that in an online editorial described the Cameron’s grief at the death of their disabled son as ‘privileged pain’!
(Subsequently deleted following deserved outrage!)

 

Was the outrage from the left because it was insufficiently sympathetic, from the right due to righteous indignation or from everywhere because it was ridiculously preposterously impossible as a concept (as well as insensitive)?

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, Korky said:

The newspaper that in an online editorial described the Cameron’s grief at the death of their disabled son as ‘privileged pain’!
(Subsequently deleted following deserved outrage!)

 

Yep. The outlet for the worst of wokery. Still, Moore still writes much the same in the Telegraph as she did in The Guardian. Liberal and leftist. Maybe just the Telegraph cocking a snook at the Guardian but still a plus for freedom of speech.

[Sooks]

16 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

That is a very specific question and I doubt many people could answer it.

 

I do know that an email came round from HR at the company I'm currently working at, asking us to put our pronoun into our email signature to say how we'd like to be addressed. I haven't paid any attention as to whether anyone has done it if I'm honest but I haven't done it myself and haven't seen any in passing...I really don't know if it was HR being woke or just trying to tick another box for the "good employer" awards checklist...

 

My organisation lets us choose ................................... I was up dating my Linkedin page the other day and tailoring it a bit for the sort of jobs i am applying for . I went to change the identity part , but in order to do that it would mark it as me changing how I identify and the date that i changed ........................................... decided to leave it blank

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Sooks
attempt at better punctuation

[Francis Albert]

18 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

That is a very specific question and I doubt many people could answer it.

 

I do know that an email came round from HR at the company I'm currently working at, asking us to put our pronoun into our email signature to say how we'd like to be addressed. I haven't paid any attention as to whether anyone has done it if I'm honest but I haven't done it myself and haven't seen any in passing...I really don't know if it was HR being woke or just trying to tick another box for the "good employer" awards checklist...

I don't think I have ever referred to someone for example on a supermarket check out or behind a counter in a bank with a pronoun. Why would I?

[il Duce McTarkin]

 

"Good guy, good guy, woke, woke, good guy".

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

"Good guy, good guy, woke, woke, good guy".

 

😄 

 

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't think I have ever referred to someone for example on a supermarket check out or behind a counter in a bank with a pronoun. Why would I?

 

In an email complaint about some thing i would guess ............................ or less likely if you were to provide positive feedback about how good their service was 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

No. Is it OK with you? Moore was bullied out of her job by her colleagues. That paragon of liberal values the Guardian did nothing to defend her. No leaders defending free speech. Not the Guardian's finest hour.

Incidentally despite my reputation among some on here as someone somewhat to the right of Gengis Khan I have been a loyal reader of the Guardian for over 50 years. 

Yes the Guardian has sank so Low now . Hardly ever read it now . Even online . Only decent thing in it is their film reviews from Peter Bradshaw which I like . 

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Bang on topic I'd say. 

But if it is too difficult for you ... Damn now I am being patronising. Sorry.

It is bang topic about her not being sacked , it would have been better if she had been sacked . Some clear statement from The Guardian but such as the insidious nature of woke place bullying she finally had enough of the pressure and quit . That’s how they play the game if they decide your not woke enough. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't think I have ever referred to someone for example on a supermarket check out or behind a counter in a bank with a pronoun. Why would I?

Funnily enough having a “ debate “ on twitter with a person regarding a certain issue . She has told me that it’s a “ pity “ she has to “ treat “ “ gender critical activists” she wouldn’t if she had the chose . She’s a nurse ! Replace “ gender critical activist” with “ black “ “ Muslim” etc 

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

😄 

 

 

In an email complaint about some thing i would guess ............................ or less likely if you were to provide positive feedback about how good their service was 

 

5 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

😄 

 

 

In an email complaint about some thing i would guess ............................ or less likely if you were to provide positive feedback about how good their service was 

Wouldn't a name tag do the job just as well?

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

 

Wouldn't a name tag do the job just as well?

 

Possibly but their hair is unlikely to ever fall over and obscure a pronoun 

[Francis Albert]

8 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Possibly but their hair is unlikely to ever fall over and obscure a pronoun 

?

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

?

 

You send an email praising the patience of a bank worker or check out operative when dealing with you at the counter , but you do not know their name because their real hair( or possibly their wig )is covering their name badge . You can not identify them by name in your email ................... suddenly pronouns become relevant when describing the person you are so keen to lavish praise upon 

 

Some times name tags are just not enough

Edited September 15, 2022 by Sooks
punctuation

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

You send an email praising the patience of a bank worker or check out operative when dealing with you at the counter , but you do not know their name because their real hair( or possibly their wig )is covering their name badge . You can not identify them by name in your email ................... suddenly pronouns become relevant when describing the person you are so keen to lavish praise upon 

 

Some times name tags are just not enough

Sorry but how are pronouns displayed? I thought it was where a name tag would be displayed. But have to say I have never seen them.

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Sorry but how are pronouns displayed? I thought it was where a name tag would be displayed. But have to say I have never seen them.

 

Email signatures and profile blurbs generally 

[Spellczech]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

My organisation lets us choose ................................... I was up dating my Linkedin page the other day and tailoring it a bit for the sort of jobs i am applying for and I went to change the identity part but in order to do that it would mark it as me changing how I identify and the date that i changed ........................................... decided to leave it blank

Yeah and that is the crux. It only matters when it affects us personally. I remember at one employer my manager came back from the toilet in a right strop because there was a "man in a dress" in the ladies toilets when she went. She calmed down a bit when I joked that I "might be rocking up in a skirt tomorrow"... Don't think I would make that joke in today's office environment - certainly would have to know the audience and not say it so loudly that someone might overhear.

 

I'm unsure where this "right to choose your pronoun" came from but I doubt I will ever call a person "they" like some sort of schizophrenic. Singular and plural I was taught. If my assumption of he/she is wrong then I'll correct it next time but not apologise like I should've known. Can have "it" if they want neuter but I don't even call my cats "it" and my boys are neutred...

[Francis Albert]

27 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Funnily enough having a “ debate “ on twitter with a person regarding a certain issue . She has told me that it’s a “ pity “ she has to “ treat “ “ gender critical activists” she wouldn’t if she had the chose . She’s a nurse ! Replace “ gender critical activist” with “ black “ “ Muslim” etc 

Very wrong maybe.  But how does she distinguish between "gender critical activists" whatever exactly they are and other patients? 

[il Duce McTarkin]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

But how does she distinguish between "gender critical activists" and other patients? 

 

By the 666 birthmarks on their napper. 

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Email signatures and profile blurbs generally 

Right. So I should consult the check out people and bank employees  email signatures and profile blurbs. I am sure I have read about thrm being displayed on their persons .. like a name tag.

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Very wrong maybe.  But how does she distinguish between "gender critical activists" whatever exactly they are and other patients? 

I’ll need to ask her that ! Unless she has blocked me ! 😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

By the 666 birthmarks on their napper. 

Edgy yet again ! 

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Right. So I should consult the check out people and bank employees  email signatures and profile blurbs. I am sure I have read about thrm being displayed on their persons .. like a name tag.

Never heard of that my self but you never know …………. did you read it in the telegraph? 

[Spellczech]

36 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Funnily enough having a “ debate “ on twitter with a person regarding a certain issue . She has told me that it’s a “ pity “ she has to “ treat “ “ gender critical activists” she wouldn’t if she had the chose . She’s a nurse ! Replace “ gender critical activist” with “ black “ “ Muslim” etc 

Nurses are like that with junkies, alcoholics and especially obese people too (where it takes 4 of them, all of whom have bad backs, to turn them...). They still treat them though. I think having a moan about your job, especially if you are low paid, is a stronger right than the right to chose your pronoun...

 

I happen to know there is an individual who comes regularly to the ERI from Saughton prison wearing women's clothes who habitually eats indigestible stuff. It annoys the pretty much everyone involved but the care is still professional...

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Never heard of that my self but you never know …………. did you read it in the telegraph? 

The Guardian I think.

 

[Sooks]

11 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Yeah and that is the crux. It only matters when it affects us personally. I remember at one employer my manager came back from the toilet in a right strop because there was a "man in a dress" in the ladies toilets when she went. She calmed down a bit when I joked that I "might be rocking up in a skirt tomorrow"... Don't think I would make that joke in today's office environment - certainly would have to know the audience and not say it so loudly that someone might overhear.

 

I'm unsure where this "right to choose your pronoun" came from but I doubt I will ever call a person "they" like some sort of schizophrenic. Singular and plural I was taught. If my assumption of he/she is wrong then I'll correct it next time but not apologise like I should've known. Can have "it" if they want neuter but I don't even call my cats "it" and my boys are neutred...

Every one from Unison to Seventeen Magazine toes the same line on that one and say it is important to create and inclusive environment and as a mark of respect to their right to choose

 

I have not added mine to my staff bio and I already mentioned about my LinkedIn ……………. It is not really some thing that irks me to any great degree though

 

I have silently watched mutual friends go at each other on the subject on social media though and it clearly invokes strong opinions in both directions

 

Kind regards,

Sooks (He/Him)

[il Duce McTarkin]

7 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Edgy yet again ! 

 

Posting an incessant stream of hate filled pish yet again. 

 

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The Guardian I think.

 

Suppose it depends whether it was penned pre or post 2020

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

Posting an incessant stream of hate filled pish yet again. 

 

You should know about that ! One of your posts yesterday was decidedly tasteless and offensive , but yet again costed in your so called edgy “ humour “ 

[il Duce McTarkin]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

You should know about that ! One of your posts yesterday was decidedly tasteless and offensive , but yet again costed in your so called edgy “ humour “ 

 

Did you report it to the authorities at the time or are you just going to greet about it on here? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

Did you report it to the authorities at the time or are you just going to greet about it on here? 

No I just rolled my eyes and let out an audible gasp at the offensive  nature of the posting . I thought what  kind of mind might post that ?  What kind of thought process ? . It also lacked any sense of humour ( not surprising really) , which is your usual modus operandi 

[Sooks]

11 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No I just rolled my eyes and let out an audible gasp 

I once had the same reaction when I sat on the washing machine

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Sooks said:

I once had the same reaction when I sat on the washing machine

😂😂😂 was it on spin ? 

[il Duce McTarkin]

9 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No I just rolled my eyes and let out an audible gasp 

 

Having a tug browsing kickback, eh. Whatever floats yer boat. 

 

10 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

It also lacked any sense of humour ( not surprising really) , which is your usual modus operandi 

 

 

10 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I thought what  kind of mind might post that ?  What kind of thought process ? 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

Having a tug browsing kickback, eh. Whatever floats yer boat. 

 

 

 

 

 

Is that all you got ? , you Probably heard that before !

 

 

 

[Sooks]

33 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

😂😂😂 was it on spin ? 

no it was just a really cold morning and my pants were in my bum crack 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Sooks

[il Duce McTarkin]

18 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Is that all you got ? , you Probably heard that before !

 

 

You're, eh, not my target audience, james. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

 

You're, eh, not my target audience, james. 

Right back at ya 

Edited September 15, 2022 by JudyJudyJudy

[Unknown user]

4 hours ago, Spellczech said:

It is just loose terminology. The only pertinent part is the indisputable fact that a Guardian collumist says that she was forced out of a job she loved by colleagues who complained about her writing an opinion piece that questioned the current trend for gender fluidity. The relevant part is their motivation for doing what they did, and not what she actually said, the legal situation etc.

 

 

 

Very, very, very, loose terminology. 

 

Apparently fighting Woke means women won't get sacked for calling themselves women.

 

I didn't choose the phrase or to use that as the example of what fighting Woke achieves, it's nonsense.

[Smoked-Glass]

The whole thing is in the face of common sense.  

 

Does anyone on here think a man is a woman??

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Smoked-Glass said:

The whole thing is in the face of common sense.  

 

Does anyone on here think a man is a woman??

Sex cannot be changed. . Sex is immutable . 
 

and Gender ideology is a pile of pish 

[Smoked-Glass]

27 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Sex cannot be changed. . Sex is immutable . 
 

and Gender ideology is a pile of pish 

Yep

[JudyJudyJudy]