Is there anything in politics more shit than the Labour Party?

[Japan Jambo]

Looks like they did ok yesterday.

[Victorian]

Very low turnout which may skew the overall picture,  but that's quite a result.  There are gains to be had in Scotland that could be an important contribution to the full election result.  

 

The Tory scum vote share is a thing to behold but.

 

[New Town Loafer]

Get it right up the SNP filth.

[BlueRiver]

 

58% of the vote. 20% swing. 

 

Smashing. 

[periodictabledancer]

2 hours ago, Victorian said:

Very low turnout which may skew the overall picture,  but that's quite a result.  There are gains to be had in Scotland that could be an important contribution to the full election result.  

 

The Tory scum vote share is a thing to behold but.

 

Did it switch to Tory-lite Labour , as they claimed ? I haven't looked at any analysis. 

[Victorian]

7 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

Did it switch to Tory-lite Labour , as they claimed ? I haven't looked at any analysis. 

 

SNP 44.2% to 27.6%

LAB 34.5% to 58.6%

Rats 15.0% to 3.9%

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Victorian

[periodictabledancer]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

SNP 44.2% to 27.6%

LAB 34.5% to 58.6%

Rats 15.0% to 3.9%

 

 

👍

[Victorian]

17 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

 

👍

 

It's difficult to compare Scottish seats to English ones because the strong SNP vote share in them doesn't exist in the English ones,  but it seems reasonable to expect a total Tory arse collapse in a lot of seats when you see them lose about 75% of their vote share at the same time as SNP vote share drastically fell.  The main sideshow of that by-election was a disgraced ex-SNP incumbent + faltering SNP publicity.  There's an underlying swing of vote share of about 10% from CON to LAB as well.  That could well translate very well for Labour across constituencies not affected by the presence of SNP.

[Japan Jambo]

54 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

Did it switch to Tory-lite Labour , as they claimed ? I haven't looked at any analysis. 

 

would doubt it, judging by the turnout I'd think they just stayed at home. 

[Ulysses]

The low turnout probably distorted the vote shares a bit, but that result is a sign that Starmer's plan to keep everything in the UK the way it is has a genuine prospect of triumphing over Sunak's programme of radical change.

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

The low turnout probably distorted the vote shares a bit, but that result is a sign that Starmer's plan to keep everything in the UK the way it is has a genuine prospect of triumphing over Sunak's programme of radical change.

 

It does seem a bit like that.  The actual change option isn't offering all that radical a reform.  The actual continuity option continually pretending to represent change,  reform and the like.  But when you strip it back,  a change of personnel is change of a kind and the chance of reform and the same personnel cannot represent change.  I think more people will realise that.

[Victorian]

Labour's updated target of Scottish gains is as much as 28.  I know some people insist that Scottish seats are never king makers in a general election and refuse to accept that one day they might be,  but 28 gains is what it says on the tin.  28 more than you had.  Labour needs to win in England first and foremost but 28 Scottish seats makes their task in England easier.  It slightly increases the chance of a majority instead of a coalition with LD.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Victorian

[Lone Striker]

12 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Labour's updated target of Scottish gains is as much as 28.  I know some people insist that Scottish seats are never king makers in a general election and refuse to accept that one day they might be,  but 28 gains is what it says on the tin.  28 more than you had.  Labour needs to win in England first and foremost but 28 Scottish seats makes their task in England easier.  It slightly increases the chance of a majority instead of a coalition with LD.

Agreed.   I think a lot of the former "red wall" constituencies in "the North"  are highly likely to turn red again, especially after Sunak's cancellation of the HS2 line to Manchester.   

 

 Surely a lot of  the voters who switched from Labour to Tory to "get Brexit done" will see through the bulls1t about still spending the money on smaller transport upgrades ?

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Starmer flying up to the Weeg to embarrassingly squawk triumphantly in a high pitched voice . 

[Boab]

Politicians love to spin and I think they over-egging this victory.

The circumstances were unique and it was a stick on the voters were going to make their feelings known about dafty Ferrier !

They may make some gain next year but not as much as they think imo.

[henrysmithsgloves]

3 minutes ago, Boab said:

Politicians love to spin and I think they over-egging this victory.

The circumstances were unique and it was a stick on the voters were going to make their feelings known about dafty Ferrier !

They may make some gain next year but not as much as they think imo.

Instead of patting each other on the back,get down to some serious stuff,like improving stuff right away🤬

[JudyJudyJudy]

Horrid little man gets schooled by a very articulate lad !  
 

 

https://x.com/samanthataghoy/status/1709995584793235593?s=46&t=Uyg6zS_aUfEwlXY6vOoxzQ

 

 

 

[Gundermann]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Starmer flying up to the Weeg to embarrassingly squawk triumphantly in a high pitched voice . 

 

You lot voted for him last night ffs...

 

Sair yin for the SNP though this seat has swung back and for between SNP and the Branch Office for the past few elections. Labour up to TWO seats in Scotland now. Plus ça change...

[Gundermann]

2 hours ago, Victorian said:

Labour's updated target of Scottish gains is as much as 28.  I know some people insist that Scottish seats are never king makers in a general election and refuse to accept that one day they might be,  but 28 gains is what it says on the tin.  28 more than you had.  Labour needs to win in England first and foremost but 28 Scottish seats makes their task in England easier.  It slightly increases the chance of a majority instead of a coalition with LD.

 

With the Tories in London a complete circus and Sir Kid Starver clearly positioning himself on the right, Tories in Scotland won't hesitate to abandon DRoss et al and vote for Labour. That could swing it in a few seats. I don't think there are any signs of Labour winning back its old vote though.

[Gizmo]

On 05/10/2023 at 10:30, manaliveits105 said:

Good luck to the Labour scum tonight 

Tories turned out in numbers for their Brit-nat mates. You must be proud. 

 

[I P Knightley]

2 hours ago, Boab said:

Politicians love to spin and I think they over-egging this victory.

The circumstances were unique and it was a stick on the voters were going to make their feelings known about dafty Ferrier !

They may make some gain next year but not as much as they think imo.

Ferrier's long gone, isn't she? 

 

Sure, some of the aversion to SNP may have been triggered by having previously voted her in but (from a distance), I see this more that they're making their feelings about the SNP - as it stands today - known. 

 

Your final line is fair; by-elections tend to amplify the underlying feelings and there will be a bit of a correction come the GE. I'm sure that the Labour wonks won't be sitting back with their slippers on, believing it will be a cakewalk. 

[Boab]

52 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

Ferrier's long gone, isn't she? 

 

Sure, some of the aversion to SNP may have been triggered by having previously voted her in but (from a distance), I see this more that they're making their feelings about the SNP - as it stands today - known. 

 

Your final line is fair; by-elections tend to amplify the underlying feelings and there will be a bit of a correction come the GE. I'm sure that the Labour wonks won't be sitting back with their slippers on, believing it will be a cakewalk. 

Probably a bit of both, you’re right. 
Her cock-up and Sturgeon jumping ship ensured a Lab gain.

Continuing that ship theme, I think the Nat’s ship has sailed. If they can’t secure an overwhelming mandate for Indy with that shower of crooks down south, they never will. 

[Gundermann]

31 minutes ago, Boab said:

Probably a bit of both, you’re right. 
Her cock-up and Sturgeon jumping ship ensured a Lab gain.

Continuing that ship theme, I think the Nat’s ship has sailed. If they can’t secure an overwhelming mandate for Indy with that shower of crooks down south, they never will. 

 

Not gonna argue if the ship has sailed or not, but how do you define that mandate? Is winning several elections on a platform on Indyref not enough? If not, then what?

 

General point taken though. Support for indy is still hovering at 50%ish - it should be much more.

[Boab]

Just now, Gundermann said:

 

Not gonna argue if the ship has sailed or not, but how do you define that mandate? Is winning several elections on a platform on Indyref not enough? If not, then what?

 

General point taken though. Support for indy is still hovering at 50%ish - it should be much more.

Yea, I was meaning the mandate should be greater i.e. majority MPs and a clear majority % in the polls for Indy. Both falling just short. 
I wondering what it take to achieve that and can’t see that it ever will. 

[Gundermann]

2 hours ago, Boab said:

Yea, I was meaning the mandate should be greater i.e. majority MPs and a clear majority % in the polls for Indy. Both falling just short. 
I wondering what it take to achieve that and can’t see that it ever will. 

 

That mandate still exists and has for a few parliaments now, both in Holyrood and Westmister. Worth noting that Labour have just increased their Branch Office MPs to two.

 

As to the Yes-vote. Yes. It hovers just above or below 50%. Maybe higher if you assume 16 to 24 year olds maybe less likely to engage with polling companies. Ditto EU citizens. Just assumptions on my part there.

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

That mandate still exists and has for a few parliaments now, both in Holyrood and Westmister. Worth noting that Labour have just increased their Branch Office MPs to two.

 

As to the Yes-vote. Yes. It hovers just above or below 50%. Maybe higher if you assume 16 to 24 year olds maybe less likely to engage with polling companies. Ditto EU citizens. Just assumptions on my part there.

 

[Cade]

The unionist parties (and media) have spent many years conflating the entire Independence movement with the SNP.

They've painted a picture where only the SNP care about Independence and that if you support Independence you have to be SNP.

And they have painted themselves as Defenders Of The Union.

This effort worked, but it rather backfired with almost all the Independence-minded members and voters of their own parties leaving them for the SNP.

The SNP have gained a baked-in majority of votes in Scotland. 

The Greens have been smart enough to be open minded about Independence unlike the other three (London controlled) opposition parties.

Despite the SNP's current sluggishness and the stagnation that always happens to any party that's been in power for many years, the popular support for Independence remains at about the same level as it did about ten years ago.

And because the opposition have given Independence seeking voters nowhere else to go, they'll continue backing the SNP or Greens.

The Unionist parties seem to think they if they just hold course, keep saying no and wait long enough then Independence will go away.

 

[Victorian]

8 minutes ago, Cade said:

The unionist parties (and media) have spent many years conflating the entire Independence movement with the SNP.

They've painted a picture where only the SNP care about Independence and that if you support Independence you have to be SNP.

And they have painted themselves as Defenders Of The Union.

This effort worked, but it rather backfired with almost all the Independence-minded members and voters of their own parties leaving them for the SNP.

The SNP have gained a baked-in majority of votes in Scotland. 

The Greens have been smart enough to be open minded about Independence unlike the other three (London controlled) opposition parties.

Despite the SNP's current sluggishness and the stagnation that always happens to any party that's been in power for many years, the popular support for Independence remains at about the same level as it did about ten years ago.

And because the opposition have given Independence seeking voters nowhere else to go, they'll continue backing the SNP or Greens.

The Unionist parties seem to think they if they just hold course, keep saying no and wait long enough then Independence will go away.

 

 

There's a lot of sense in this post but it isn't necessarily the case that the pro-independence vote will remain with the SNP at a Westminster election.  Westminster is not the naturally legitimate pathway to independence.  Only a thumping vote share and clear SNP majority at Holyrood + a clear and sustained polling evidence support for a referendum is.  A Westminster election can never be only about independence,  regardless of a so-called de facto referendum being declared.  For as long as Scotland is in the UK,  a Westminster election decides the economic future and policy direction for Scotland,  both covering reserved matters and devolved areas.  There is every chance that independence supporting voters will increasingly separate their voting intentions between the two parliaments.  Significant support for independence is not going away but it wont necessarily manifest itself at Westminster if more and more people realise that it continues to have very little bearing on the journey towards independence.  

[Cade]

All that any First Minister has to do is send a formal letter requesting a referendum to the Prime Minster every month.

Keep up the pressure and keep publicising the democratic deficit.

No need for grandstanding; just a polite, yet insistent request for the policy that Scottish voters voted for to be upheld.

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Cade said:

All that any First Minister has to do is send a formal letter requesting a referendum to the Prime Minster every month.

Keep up the pressure and keep publicising the democratic deficit.

No need for grandstanding; just a polite, yet insistent request for the policy that Scottish voters voted for to be upheld.

 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

All that any First Minister has to do is send a formal letter requesting a referendum to the Prime Minster every month.

Keep up the pressure and keep publicising the democratic deficit.

No need for grandstanding; just a polite, yet insistent request for the policy that Scottish voters voted for to be upheld.

 

Never enough.  Unionists pin their defence on polling evidence.  Only sustained polling support will make it impossible to decline a referendum.  If that kind of polling evidence does occur,  it will also highly likely mean that the SNP will have a clearer Holyrood mandate.

 

40+ seats at Westminster and 50% support of independence in the opinion polls = no progress.  All the while,  people may begin to take more notice of who they want in power at Westminster amid their thwarted desire for independence.  

[Ulysses]

12 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

It does seem a bit like that.  The actual change option isn't offering all that radical a reform.  The actual continuity option continually pretending to represent change,  reform and the like.  But when you strip it back,  a change of personnel is change of a kind and the chance of reform and the same personnel cannot represent change.  I think more people will realise that.

 

The change of personnel is badly needed, Vic.

 

As you well know, my concern is whether or not the new boss will actually do what is so badly needed.  But be that as it may, we sure as **** know that the old boss won't.

[Gundermann]

13 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

Never enough.  Unionists pin their defence on polling evidence.  Only sustained polling support will make it impossible to decline a referendum.  If that kind of polling evidence does occur,  it will also highly likely mean that the SNP will have a clearer Holyrood mandate.

 

40+ seats at Westminster and 50% support of independence in the opinion polls = no progress.  All the while,  people may begin to take more notice of who they want in power at Westminster amid their thwarted desire for independence.  

 

Half agree but it's not that long since the SNP had only 6 seats at WM and we had Lab/Lib in power here.

 

Saw somewhere, some Labour supporter applauding the 'mandate' of a poll showing a pro-Unionist majority in Holyrood. Was stated with no trace of irony...

[Victorian]

9 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

The change of personnel is badly needed, Vic.

 

As you well know, my concern is whether or not the new boss will actually do what is so badly needed.  But be that as it may, we sure as **** know that the old boss won't.

 

It's always an act of faith.  Even if they were promising the world it would be so.  I think it's much more honest to offer realism and not over-promise.  But for sure the starting point is getting rid of the people who are proven failures and persistent liars.

[Victorian]

8 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Half agree but it's not that long since the SNP had only 6 seats at WM and we had Lab/Lib in power here.

 

Saw somewhere, some Labour supporter applauding the 'mandate' of a poll showing a pro-Unionist majority in Holyrood. Was stated with no trace of irony...

 

[Tommy Brown]

Listening to Rayner on news this morning saying the "seismic" result.

Away and GTF. It was the biggest open goal Labour are going to get.

Which is quite something, considering the way Tories are opening the door for them.

 

Scottish vote is just pish, next GE will see a swing back to Labour as a pure anti tory vote. SNP are too media damaged.

 

This will be portrayed as a pro-union/anti independence switch, when it is not.

[Gundermann]

11 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Listening to Rayner on news this morning saying the "seismic" result.

Away and GTF. It was the biggest open goal Labour are going to get.

Which is quite something, considering the way Tories are opening the door for them.

 

Scottish vote is just pish, next GE will see a swing back to Labour as a pure anti tory vote. SNP are too media damaged.

 

This will be portrayed as a pro-union/anti independence switch, when it is not.

 

A pic of seismic.

 

Meanwhile Starmer is saying that he can't promise to extend HS2 either. Que sorpresa...

 

[SectionDJambo]

9 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

Meanwhile Starmer is saying that he can't promise to extend HS2 either. Que sorpresa...

To be fair to Starmer, he can't believe with any confidence that the government isn't covering up a much higher overspend. That overspend being caused in some cases by Conservative MPs insisting on changes to the planned routes and construction through their constituencies to keep their local support base happy.

Why didn't they start by building the HS2 line from Manchester down the way towards London? That would have shown real commitment to "levelling up". Nope, they made sure the southern part was going to be completed first.

[BlueRiver]

Cope lads 😊 

 

Don't let it ruin your weekends. 

[ToadKiller Dog]

Starmer is just completing the project of turning Labour into the modern equivelent of Gladstones victorian Liberal Party. 

Corbyns traditional Labour (he was no where near as left as some put out was the death rattle of old Labour values .

If the SNP go down the road of chasing the Labour and tories to the right 'as some are suggesting certainly right wing media hacks  there will not be a single major left of centre party in the uk

For deoncracy that aint good .

Prime Minister Farage is on the cards after Stammer has his one term..

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

Listening to Rayner on news this morning saying the "seismic" result.

Away and GTF. It was the biggest open goal Labour are going to get.

Which is quite something, considering the way Tories are opening the door for them.

 

Scottish vote is just pish, next GE will see a swing back to Labour as a pure anti tory vote. SNP are too media damaged.

 

This will be portrayed as a pro-union/anti independence switch, when it is not.

 

Yep. I'll likely be voting Labour at the next GE but I still want independence.

[OTT]

Won't ever vote Labour - or any Unionist party, on principle. 

 

Expecting to see a major decline in the SNP though. They've spent credibility and trust which they cannot afford to have done with the public. 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, BlueRiver said:

Cope lads 😊 

 

Don't let it ruin your weekends. 

Comically once Labour get in they were be seething on a daily basis about what Labour are doing or not doing !! Maybe retitle the thread “ more Labour lies “ they will never be satisfied until we have almost a communist run UK I feel . And that’s never going to happen . Labour are playing a very smart game . 

[Roxy Hearts]

I'm trying to understand what the "seismic" stuff is all about? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm trying to understand what the "seismic" stuff is all about? 

You seem to struggle to understand quite a lot so nowt new there Roxy 😎you asked for that one 

[Ulysses]

8 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm trying to understand what the "seismic" stuff is all about? 

 

I think it means there was an earthquake in Rutherglen, but nobody noticed.

[Roxy Hearts]

45 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

You seem to struggle to understand quite a lot so nowt new there Roxy 😎you asked for that one 

Oooo you are awful.....

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Oooo you are awful.....

But you like me ? 😂

[Roxy Hearts]

7 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

But you like me ? 😂

Now and again 😅

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Now and again 😅

 

3 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Now and again 😅

Awe oh well that’s nice . I’m off out now . Heading to pub to watch rugby 🏉 got my Scotland rugby top on . Looking very butch ! 😂 have a good night Roxy . Disappointed with the score today but least we didn’t lose .