Is there anything in politics more shit than the Labour Party?

[Ulysses]

And today, the "leader" of the "Labour" Party has dumped Shadow Transport Minister Sam Tarry from the front bench for supporting workers who are on industrial action.  Sam's "a bit of a lefty" by all accounts.

 

Plenty of commentary here having a go at the Conservatives, and the SNP, but however much you might hate either of them at least they seem to be trying to "do what it says on the tin".

 

On the other hand, the Labour Party seems to be about as much use as a one-legged man in a chocolate teapot kicking contest.  Pointless, useless, washed up and past it.

 

 

[Dawnrazor]

The Labour Party are a shambles, Starmer is a terrible leader, they seem to be without direction and have lost seats that would never have been believed just a few years ago, shit opposition contribute to shit governments, with both in WM now there's little hope of improvement any time soon.

[jambo89]

6 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

And today, the "leader" of the "Labour" Party has dumped Shadow Transport Minister Sam Tarry from the front bench for supporting workers who are on industrial action.  Sam's "a bit of a lefty" by all accounts.

 

Plenty of commentary here having a go at the Conservatives, and the SNP, but however much you might hate either of them at least they seem to be trying to "do what it says on the tin".

 

On the other hand, the Labour Party seems to be about as much use as a one-legged man in a chocolate teapot kicking contest.  Pointless, useless, washed up and past it.

 

 

At my heart, I’m a labour supporter. I’ve voted SNP for the past few elections as I’m in favour of independence, but feel, ideologically speaking, I’ve always been labour. 
 

This isn’t labour though. This is a sham of a Labour Party and has been for a couple of years now. If anything Sam Tarry symbolises what labour is about, a principled politician standing up for the working man.

[felix]

Downhill since they ousted Corbyn .

Difficult to tell the difference between the two main parties (down south) & the Lib Dems. Just a big pile of nothingness.

[The Real Maroonblood]

No surprise from Starmer.

I wouldn’t have expected anything less from the imposter.

[Victorian]

No,  to be fair they're on a hiding to nothing when it comes to MPs supporting strikes.  The Tories and the right wing press are already trying to accumulate political capital from the various disputes going on.  They're poised like vultures to seize on any party sanctioned / tolerated solidarity with unions and striking workers.  Like it or not,  not everyone is supportive of strikes and pay claims.  There's more political capital to gain from portraying the Labour party as left wing,  union agitators,  in the thrall of the unions,  a scourge on people trying to make their journeys,  etc etc.

 

The Tories are not conducting a hard line stance on pay claims on their own merit.  Not for some deep concern for the economy.  They're in it for the culture war.  Labour are having the inevitable hard time trying not to be sucked into the trap.

[jack D and coke]

It’s funny when the likes of wee Anus mouths off about what he’s going to do then gets telt hes an imposter so he disappears again for a month or two. 
I’ve said before I reckon you could put John Smith or Robin Cook in charge of Scottish Labour and they’d end looking just as silly. 
Absolutely finished they are.

Starmer is a blouse of a man. 
A sir being in charge of Labour ffs. 

The only downside is it’s Tory for as far as I can see into the future. 
😕
 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

I think that Labour doesn't know who they are nor what they want to be, they are trying to be everything to everybody and end up pleasing nobody.

 

I also think that Labour have been on a downward slope since Brown was PM, then they compounded the issue when they elected the wrong brother, imo of course.

[Mikey1874]

The Tories here are following the Republicans in trying to prevent people to vote by introducing ID before you vote. 

 

Labour have no policies like that. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s funny when the likes of wee Anus mouths off about what he’s going to do then gets telt hes an imposter so he disappears again for a month or two. 
I’ve said before I reckon you could put John Smith or Robin Cook in charge of Scottish Labour and they’d end looking just as silly. 
Absolutely finished they are.

Starmer is a blouse of a man. 
A sir being in charge of Labour ffs. 

The only downside is it’s Tory for as far as I can see into the future. 
😕
 

A sir in charge is absolutely laughable.

Smith and Cook must be turning in their graves.

[Dawnrazor]

You'd think now, today, would be enough for someone to challenge Starmer?

 

[Don Dan]

Sacked for standing up for Labour values. This won’t go down well with the rank and file core supporters

[Mikey1874]

Don't think the Labour Government will send anyone to Rwanda. 

[Mikey1874]

While the only definitive way to solve the problems with Brexit and the Good Friday agreement is for UK to rejoin the single market and customs union, a Labour Government will ensure the Good Friday Agreement is protected. 

 

Currently is going to shit. 

[Mikey1874]

You also need to have a close look at what the last Labour Government did. 

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

A sir in charge is absolutely laughable.

Smith and Cook must be turning in their graves.

Proper good men with values. 
What a farce they’ve become. 

[Jeffros Furios]

35 minutes ago, felix said:

Downhill since they ousted Corbyn .

Difficult to tell the difference between the two main parties (down south) & the Lib Dems. Just a big pile of nothingness.

[Shooter McGavin]

A terrible decision.

 

Labour should be wiping the floor with the tories right now.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

A sir in charge is absolutely laughable.

Smith and Cook must be turning in their graves.

 

I've heard and read that before but just don't see the point.  A knighthood is an honour given to people from every conceivable background.  There's absolutely zero connotation of someone with a knighthood being an establishment figure,  from a privileged background,  elitist from ordinary citizens,  etc.  He didn't even get his knighthood for anything political.

 

The Labour Party,  just like the Tories,  propose people for honours from the monarch.  They too appoint people to the peerage for political service.  The Labour Party is not separate from the honours system.

 

The right wingers must laugh themselves silly when they see Starmer portrayed as something because of his title.  We're doing their work for them if we're sucked into viewing him as establishment.

[Don Dan]

4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

While the only definitive way to solve the problems with Brexit and the Good Friday agreement is for UK to rejoin the single market and customs union, a Labour Government will ensure the Good Friday Agreement is protected. 

 

Currently is going to shit. 

I had a conversation with Ian Murray and none of that is in Starmer’s mind or plans. I also email Starmer telling him the only way to sort out this Brexit Shit Show would to do the above but in less blunt words. No reply from him yet unlike Ian who always responds to me. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Imaman
Him

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Shooter McGavin said:

A terrible decision.

 

Labour should be wiping the floor with the tories right now.

They should, the tories look like they could drown kittens live on TV every night a d thus Labour party couldn't increase their lead by a point, it's got to be worth someone, I don't know how the NEC rules work on this, trying to oust Starmer?

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Don't think the Labour Government will send anyone to Rwanda. 

Starmer will send them to Coventry.

[Victorian]

There are people there who would do better than Starmer but they better decide soon what their election plan is.  The timing of a change of leadership could be a complete own goal.  

 

Go for it now.  Better to get the process out of the way in plenty time for then next election.  But it would be used to portay Labour in civil war and a distraction from the Tories making a total ***** of everything.

 

Go for it nearer to the next election.  Less time to prepare.  But may be better to keep a low profile to keep the glare on the junta.

 

Maybe in the spring or thereabouts.  

[Cade]

Labour haven't got a fecking clue what they stand for.

 

"Not The Tories" isn't good enough.

 

 

 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

Labour haven't got a fecking clue what they stand for.

 

"Not The Tories" isn't good enough.

 

 

 

 

Correct.  The main message is that the Tories are making a ***** of it.  But they need to improve explaining why they're making a ***** of it.  People will quickly switch off to that message without some detail.

[Dawnrazor]

Angela Rayner should be on the next picket line available to get things moving.

[JudyJudyJudy]

No 

[OTT]

Its what happens in a two party system, the same is true in America. Tory and Diet Tory.

 

Corbyn had morals and knew who he is, can Starmer say the same thing?

 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by OTT

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, jambo89 said:

At my heart, I’m a labour supporter. I’ve voted SNP for the past few elections as I’m in favour of independence, but feel, ideologically speaking, I’ve always been labour. 
 

This isn’t labour though. This is a sham of a Labour Party and has been for a couple of years now. If anything Sam Tarry symbolises what labour is about, a principled politician standing up for the working man.

Completely agree . Deep down I’m still Labour really but due to various policies and todays shameful episode I give up at the present time . They have no identity 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

And today, the "leader" of the "Labour" Party has dumped Shadow Transport Minister Sam Tarry from the front bench for supporting workers who are on industrial action.  Sam's "a bit of a lefty" by all accounts.

 

Plenty of commentary here having a go at the Conservatives, and the SNP, but however much you might hate either of them at least they seem to be trying to "do what it says on the tin".

 

On the other hand, the Labour Party seems to be about as much use as a one-legged man in a chocolate teapot kicking contest.  Pointless, useless, washed up and past it.

 

 

Nope.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

While the only definitive way to solve the problems with Brexit and the Good Friday agreement is for UK to rejoin the single market and customs union, a Labour Government will ensure the Good Friday Agreement is protected. 

 

Currently is going to shit. 

Actually, it's not. I agree on the single market but customs union can be worked around. There's a nominal border between Norway and Sweden as a result of the former not being in the customs union but in practice it is not worth worrying about.

[Irufushi]

1 hour ago, Shooter McGavin said:

A terrible decision.

 

Labour should be wiping the floor with the tories right now.

They’ve missed the boat, big time. 

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

So who eventually replaces Keir Starmer? 

[Cade]

This is like Diana Ross missing that penalty during the World Cup opening ceremony in '94.

 

Everything set up perfectly for an easy tap-in but somehow fluffed it and missed the open goal.

[Boab]

Said it before, Starmer is a plant. 
Abandon the Labour Party and join a union.

[Cade]

2 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said:

So who eventually replaces Keir Starmer? 

Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper

 

[Costanza]

In a nutshell, Starmer is hopeless,  dishonest and without principle.

In 2019 he stood on the UCU picket line whilst part of the shadow cabinet.

As one of his 10 "pledges" he signed his name against Pledge 7:

"Strengthen Worker's Right and Trade Unions - Work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people, tackle insecure work and low pay. Repeal the Trade Union Act. Oppose Tory attacks on the right to take industrial action and weakening of workplace rights".

 

I also don't buy the take that he needs to appear moderate to triangulate against the right wing media attacks.

He's not going to get the backing of the Daily Mail regardless of what he does. Look at the coverage of 'Beergate' or the reporting of his Brexit policy (vacuous non descript "we'll make Brexit better" nonsense) which was reported as a heinous reversal of Brexit.

Like the BBC's soft soaping of the Tories, it makes no difference to the Tories and their media supporters.

 

Starmer ran for the Labour leadership as a Continuity/Competent Corbyn and signed pledges on nationalising rail, energy, water (all ditched). He told an audience in Liverpool how he understood their feelings on the Sun newspaper and how he would give no interviews to them in the leadership campaign; he has now written columns for them.

In Commons votes, Labour has abstained on the welfare cap., abstained on a vote allowing real-terms Universal Credit and Pension cuts, abstained on the 'spycops' billl amendment that would have specifically banned the authorisation of rape, torture and murder by public bodies.

This can't just be about not trying to upset the horses can it?

 

The issue Starmer now has is that he is on a collision course with a large faction of his party and the unions and a lot of people who would have voted Labour regardless will now be considering their vote. That might be fine if Starmer wanted a progressive alliance to kick the Tories out and introduce PR but it doesn't look like he does, so where is this large vote share coming from?

 

The Corbyn manifesto was pretty much mainstream European social democracy and a lot of the domestic policies were popular.

The country needs radical policies (for the UK) like some of that manifesto to fix the damage the Tories have done but Starmer is either fiddling at the edges or just trotting out banal tropes.

I'm struggling to see who exactly he is inspiring here.

 

[Dagger Is Back]

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

And today, the "leader" of the "Labour" Party has dumped Shadow Transport Minister Sam Tarry from the front bench for supporting workers who are on industrial action.  Sam's "a bit of a lefty" by all accounts.

 

Plenty of commentary here having a go at the Conservatives, and the SNP, but however much you might hate either of them at least they seem to be trying to "do what it says on the tin".

 

On the other hand, the Labour Party seems to be about as much use as a one-legged man in a chocolate teapot kicking contest.  Pointless, useless, washed up and past it.

 

 

 

Shameful stuff from Sir Starmer today. Tarry showed balls today whilst Starmer has none. I can't remember British politics being dominated by such a bunch of out of touch, clueless half wits ever.

[Dawnrazor]

6 minutes ago, Cade said:

Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper

 

Lisa Nandy?

[Costanza]

11 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said:

So who eventually replaces Keir Starmer? 

I'd be up for some chaos with Ed Milliband

[The Mighty Thor]

Said it on another thread earlier today. 

The Tories have lurched right into full blown fascism and Labour are trying to fill the void where the Tories pre ERG/UKIP/BNP used to sit. 

 

One outcome might be a split in the Labour Party between the old fashioned party of the working man and the Nouveau Riche diet Tory mob Starmer is trying to fashion. 

 

Can we please just feck off from this circus and leave England circling a plughole of their own making?

[Auld Reekin']

21 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Said it on another thread earlier today. 

The Tories have lurched right into full blown fascism and Labour are trying to fill the void where the Tories pre ERG/UKIP/BNP used to sit. 

 

One outcome might be a split in the Labour Party between the old fashioned party of the working man and the Nouveau Riche diet Tory mob Starmer is trying to fashion. 

 

Can we please just feck off from this circus and leave England whirling round the lavvy pan after flushing themselves down it?

 

 

ftfy  

[Victorian]

17 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Said it on another thread earlier today. 

The Tories have lurched right into full blown fascism and Labour are trying to fill the void where the Tories pre ERG/UKIP/BNP used to sit. 

 

One outcome might be a split in the Labour Party between the old fashioned party of the working man and the Nouveau Riche diet Tory mob Starmer is trying to fashion. 

 

Can we please just feck off from this circus and leave England circling a plughole of their own making?

 

Things are far from ideal but splitting the only possible party that can at least be the largest party in a hung parliament will likely mean we'll never,  actually never,  get rid of the junta.   On the other hand it could,  in theory,  make the centrist version of the Labour Party appealing enough to erode the Tory vote share enough to make it difficult for them to win a majority.  The result could be a series of hung parliaments with no likely working majority coalitions,  aside from a multi party government made up without the largest party (Lab / Socialist Lab / SNP / LD).

 

Labour splitting presents a funding problem for the centre ground section though.  The trade unions would continue to affiliate and fund the socialist section.  

[Shooter McGavin]

Reckon Labour would actually perform better if they just chucked Mick Lynch in charge to be honest.

[JudyJudyJudy]

[Costanza]

34 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Said it on another thread earlier today. 

The Tories have lurched right into full blown fascism and Labour are trying to fill the void where the Tories pre ERG/UKIP/BNP used to sit. 

 

One outcome might be a split in the Labour Party between the old fashioned party of the working man and the Nouveau Riche diet Tory mob Starmer is trying to fashion. 

 

Can we please just feck off from this circus and leave England circling a plughole of their own making?

Thatcher shifted the 'centre ground' right and now Johnson/Farage have shifted that even further.
We're not far off being like the US with the NHS labelled derisorily as a socialist experiment. Think Daniel Hannan actually did that on the US TV.

[Shooter McGavin]

After listening to the Channel 4 interview with Sam Tarry, Starmers decision today is even more baffling.

 

Everything Sam Tarry was talking about represents what I believe the Labour party should be all about.

 

I don’t understand what Starmers thinking behind this is.

[Boab]

7 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Reckon Labour would actually perform better if they just chucked Mick Lynch in charge to be honest.

The smear campaign against Corbyn would be nothing compared to Lynch.

It’s even on here at times, never mind the media. 
 

[Costanza]

Another thing about this Starmer action. You now have some of the Labour 'centrist' twtterati criticising those on the left for criticising Starmer as "doing the Tories job" yet they were happy to stick the boot into Corbyn and help Johnson get elected.

[PortyBeach]

2 hours ago, Victorian said:

No,  to be fair they're on a hiding to nothing when it comes to MPs supporting strikes.  The Tories and the right wing press are already trying to accumulate political capital from the various disputes going on.  They're poised like vultures to seize on any party sanctioned / tolerated solidarity with unions and striking workers.  Like it or not,  not everyone is supportive of strikes and pay claims.  There's more political capital to gain from portraying the Labour party as left wing,  union agitators,  in the thrall of the unions,  a scourge on people trying to make their journeys,  etc etc.

 

The Tories are not conducting a hard line stance on pay claims on their own merit.  Not for some deep concern for the economy.  They're in it for the culture war.  Labour are having the inevitable hard time trying not to be sucked into the trap.

You’re right on various levels here. 
Bearing in mind what you’ve said, I just wonder though if Starmer is taking too rigid a line on this incident.

Labour isn’t in power: it’s not as if a Labour Government Minister has endorsed strike action and compromised his ability to broker negotiations which might produce a resolution.

Labour is in opposition and I think that fact should allow individuals to follow their consciences. 
I’m sure the “libertarian” nut-jobs on the Tory back benches would agree…