Is there anything in politics more shit than the Labour Party?

[Gundermann]

19 hours ago, Gerry1874 said:

Don't normally back the guy but agree with the PM when is comes to tackling the out of control welfare bill. Check the increase in PIP claiments especially for mental health. Far too many are working the system and it needs addressed.

 

 

 

Punching down on benefits claimants - many/ most of whom are in jobs already - is easy but wrong. The gap between the rich and the rest of us is growing. Tax the rich and give the rest of us fair wages, a reduced working week, better pensions and better working conditions.

[escobri]

57 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Punching down on benefits claimants - many/ most of whom are in jobs already - is easy but wrong. The gap between the rich and the rest of us is growing. Tax the rich and give the rest of us fair wages, a reduced working week, better pensions and better working conditions.

https://www.s1jobs.com/

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 hours ago, Gundermann said:

 

Punching down on benefits claimants - many/ most of whom are in jobs already - is easy but wrong. The gap between the rich and the rest of us is growing. Tax the rich and give the rest of us fair wages, a reduced working week, better pensions and better working conditions.

Fantasy land. A reduced working week would require a fair percentage of the lazy ****s to get out their beds and actually do some work in the first place. Better pensions! Well you have about 40 years to get yourself sorted so take at least come responsibility for getting yourself sorted. Better working conditions! FFS, we can't get folk to come into their offices as they prefer skiving at home despite offering free parking, free tea & coffee, discounted canteen, WiFi and loads of other benefits. Younger folk, or at least a  decent amount of them, don't accept the premise of having to work at all. If they can be bothered working, they don't like taking instruction, they don't like and can't accept criticism and when things get tough, they just prefer walking away.

Taxing the rich is just a cop out and levelling down. Encourage youngsters to aim high and get a good work ethic. Stop being so jealous and petty about others and get on with your own life.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

20 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Fantasy land. A reduced working week would require a fair percentage of the lazy ****s to get out their beds and actually do some work in the first place. Better pensions! Well you have about 40 years to get yourself sorted so take at least come responsibility for getting yourself sorted. Better working conditions! FFS, we can't get folk to come into their offices as they prefer skiving at home despite offering free parking, free tea & coffee, discounted canteen, WiFi and loads of other benefits. Younger folk, or at least a  decent amount of them, don't accept the premise of having to work at all. If they can be bothered working, they don't like taking instruction, they don't like and can't accept criticism and when things get tough, they just prefer walking away.

Taxing the rich is just a cop out and levelling down. Encourage youngsters to aim high and get a good work ethic. Stop being so jealous and petty about others and get on with your own life.

 

Great posting. He seems to like " punching up" taking for those who earned their crust the hard way...by hard graft.  

Edited March 14 by JudyJudyJudy

[Japan Jambo]

19 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Not if it’s the “ wrong “ opinion mate . 

 

Never stopped you Jamesy 🙂 

[XB52]

17 hours ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

You most certainly are, I was simply enquiring as to what has led you to such.

 

You seem rather defensive. 

Why do right wingers always whinge about free speech when someone doesn't agree with them? Everyone is free to post whatever they want, as long as they don't go against the forum rules. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

Gundy > Malinga imo.

[Gundermann]

4 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Fantasy land. A reduced working week would require a fair percentage of the lazy ****s to get out their beds and actually do some work in the first place. Better pensions! Well you have about 40 years to get yourself sorted so take at least come responsibility for getting yourself sorted. Better working conditions! FFS, we can't get folk to come into their offices as they prefer skiving at home despite offering free parking, free tea & coffee, discounted canteen, WiFi and loads of other benefits. Younger folk, or at least a  decent amount of them, don't accept the premise of having to work at all. If they can be bothered working, they don't like taking instruction, they don't like and can't accept criticism and when things get tough, they just prefer walking away.

Taxing the rich is just a cop out and levelling down. Encourage youngsters to aim high and get a good work ethic. Stop being so jealous and petty about others and get on with your own life.

 

 

Hardly. We just lack the political will. Why don't the rich face austerity? Try not buying that extra house or yacht instead of laying off workers?

 

Saw this last week re Denmark. Not socialism but a damn sight more progressive - and more productive and happier - than we are. Surely we can aspire to similar, at the very least?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/mar/08/top-10-scandi-life-lessons-after-decade-in-denmark

[BlueRiver]

1 hour ago, Gundermann said:

 

Hardly. We just lack the political will. Why don't the rich face austerity? Try not buying that extra house or yacht instead of laying off workers?

 

Saw this last week re Denmark. Not socialism but a damn sight more progressive - and more productive and happier - than we are. Surely we can aspire to similar, at the very least?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/mar/08/top-10-scandi-life-lessons-after-decade-in-denmark

 

Aspire to what? Going outside and having family dinners? Or are you specifically focused in the 33 hour average working week? 

[Gundermann]

1 minute ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Aspire to what? Going outside and having family dinners? Or are you specifically focused in the 33 hour average working week? 

 

Convince me it's not a good thing to have a healthy and happy lifestyle, better wages, better public services and more time for your family or whatever else you choose to do.

 

Have pals in Denmark and have been across a few times. It's a fantastic place. What's not to like?

[BlueRiver]

4 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Convince me it's not a good thing to have a healthy and happy lifestyle, better wages, better public services and more time for your family or whatever else you choose to do.

 

Have pals in Denmark and have been across a few times. It's a fantastic place. What's not to like?

 

I don't understand the relevance of the link you posted though. 

 

We could work 33 hours a week on average in the UK and you'd still need to put a gun to folk's heads to get them outside in winter. 

[Thunder and Lightning]

4 hours ago, XB52 said:

Why do right wingers always whinge about free speech when someone doesn't agree with them? Everyone is free to post whatever they want, as long as they don't go against the forum rules. 

Is English a second language for you?

 

Where in my post did i suggest he can't post, and please do point out my right wing posts.

 

Are you being the forum policeman again.

 

Thank God you got rejected as a mod. 😆 

 

[XB52]

40 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Is English a second language for you?

 

Where in my post did i suggest he can't post, and please do point out my right wing posts.

 

Are you being the forum policeman again.

 

Thank God you got rejected as a mod. 😆 

 

I was agreeing with your post to Gerry, someone I think you will agree is fairly right wing; plus his backup by jjj.

[Thunder and Lightning]

7 minutes ago, XB52 said:

I was agreeing with your post to Gerry, someone I think you will agree is fairly right wing; plus his backup by jjj.

I'm very sorry.

 

 

I jumped in with both feet there.

 

Genuinely sorry.

 

I was a little miffed at thinking you were talking about me. 😆 

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, XB52 said:

I was agreeing with your post to Gerry, someone I think you will agree is fairly right wing; plus his backup by jjj.

 

[XB52]

40 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

I'm very sorry.

 

 

I jumped in with both feet there.

 

Genuinely sorry.

 

I was a little miffed at thinking you were talking about me. 😆 

When I read my post back I can quite understand how it came across; sorry for the confusion. Wouldn't want you lumped in with them🙂

[Thunder and Lightning]

28 minutes ago, XB52 said:

When I read my post back I can quite understand how it came across; sorry for the confusion. Wouldn't want you lumped in with them🙂

😆 cheers.

 

Never knew i was so precious. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

10 hours ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

 

Thank God you got rejected as a mod. 😆 

 

 

[Ked]

There's more outrage at US politics than the clipping wings of auld folks and disabled from " the labour" party.

 

There is no choice .

It's semantics .

And we are in truth governed by lobbyists with wealth.

 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

There's more outrage at US politics than the clipping wings of auld folks and disabled from " the labour" party.

 

There is no choice .

It's semantics .

And we are in truth governed by lobbyists with wealth.

 

I knew Labour were going to be shite but not this shite! There is no Labour Party anymore just another bunch of Westminster crooks.

[the posh bit]

On 13/03/2025 at 15:13, Gerry1874 said:

I think the whole mental health thing is overplayed generally. People think having a tough or challenging life period equals a diagnosis. I think the majority of those mental health claims are chancers.

 

 

Nah, they’re not chancers, a lot of folk just don’t know how to pick themselves up. It does need addressed though, the state can’t afford to keep them. 

[Gundermann]

Not sure if Anas Sarwar was ever serious about becoming the FM here but surely that's all smoke now?

 

Labour not just content with continuing Tory levels of spending but actually cutting them. All while giving the likes of Jim Radcliffe £1bn of public money. Socialism for the rich, austerity for us.

 

[ehcaley]

Far to many people working in the "poor industry" with large salaries,getting folk back into work is the last thing they want.

One in ten on benefits which come from the taxes of the decreasing numbers in work is simply unsustainable.

Politicians have run away from the benefits issue for years for fear of voter backlash and parties who think they'll benefit by opposing any change.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, ehcaley said:

Far to many people working in the "poor industry" with large salaries,getting folk back into work is the last thing they want.

One in ten on benefits which come from the taxes of the decreasing numbers in work is simply unsustainable.

Politicians have run away from the benefits issue for years for fear of voter backlash and parties who think they'll benefit by opposing any change.

 

 

An inconvenient truth 

[Mikey1874]

For too long doctors just gave anyone who asked them a medical line. Anyone on drugs for example.

 

Covid then the mental health excuse have taken hold more recently. Also the benefits do give a lot of disabled people a relatively comfortable income.

 

They are right to tackle it. Be a surprise if they get it right though.

.

[Ked]

19 hours ago, the posh bit said:

 

 

Nah, they’re not chancers, a lot of folk just don’t know how to pick themselves up. It does need addressed though, the state can’t afford to keep them. 

I've seen better men than me not been able to get it together .

Lots of things can change your life.

The safety net should be kept in place and in extreme cases be life long.

However it's also a featherbed for addiction.

It's not about cost by the way.

In real terms it's cheaper for everyone if people are looked after.

Society needs it otherwise the majority will suffer.

There's an underclass of people that's growing who don't care about anything in terms of behaviour,work or even keeping a clock.

That's the downside of benefits.

Often work will give you structure at least.

It's not the answer for everyone but there's plenty could do with the boost to their self esteem.

 

The idea that it's all unaffordable is a nonsense .I know in the pretend economy it's not .

But the idea that we will ever balance the books (2 trillion debt)

By cutting 5 to 10 billion just confirms my views.

There's not much more shit than the Labour party.

And they're as shit as everyone.

 

 

 

[joondalupjambo]

35 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

For too long doctors just gave anyone who asked them a medical line. Anyone on drugs for example.

 

Covid then the mental health excuse have taken hold more recently. Also the benefits do give a lot of disabled people a relatively comfortable income.

 

They are right to tackle it. Be a surprise if they get it right though.

.

To get PIP payments a health professional does an assessment, not necessarily a Doctor and it is a DWP staff member who then has to authorise the getting of a payment. 

 

The problem for me seems to be that the assessment is too lax, not enough depth to it or that the assessment says that the person may have or might be having etc.  Too weak words around the assessment.

 

The DWP staff then are too frightened to challenge anything due to political pressure and/or lack of skills. 

 

Then everything just becomes a box ticking exercise and the ones who need challenged just slip through the net.  Like you I cannot see how this system can be tackled properly.  Very difficult politically.

 

[the posh bit]

1 hour ago, ehcaley said:

Far to many people working in the "poor industry" with large salaries,getting folk back into work is the last thing they want.

One in ten on benefits which come from the taxes of the decreasing numbers in work is simply unsustainable.

Politicians have run away from the benefits issue for years for fear of voter backlash and parties who think they'll benefit by opposing any change.

 

 

 

What would a large salary in the ‘poor industry’ look like ? Are there examples?

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

For too long doctors just gave anyone who asked them a medical line. Anyone on drugs for example.

 

Covid then the mental health excuse have taken hold more recently. Also the benefits do give a lot of disabled people a relatively comfortable income.

 

They are right to tackle it. Be a surprise if they get it right though.

.

Good posting 

[the posh bit]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Good posting 

😁

[Bairnjambo]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

I've seen better men than me not been able to get it together .

Lots of things can change your life.

The safety net should be kept in place and in extreme cases be life long.

However it's also a featherbed for addiction.

It's not about cost by the way.

In real terms it's cheaper for everyone if people are looked after.

Society needs it otherwise the majority will suffer.

There's an underclass of people that's growing who don't care about anything in terms of behaviour,work or even keeping a clock.

That's the downside of benefits.

Often work will give you structure at least.

It's not the answer for everyone but there's plenty could do with the boost to their self esteem.

 

The idea that it's all unaffordable is a nonsense .I know in the pretend economy it's not .

But the idea that we will ever balance the books (2 trillion debt)

By cutting 5 to 10 billion just confirms my views.

There's not much more shit than the Labour party.

And they're as shit as everyone.

 

 

 

Spot on.

 

Get rid of the nuclear subs and their bombs and redistribute to increasing armed forces, their salaries and their ordinance/technology and there will be enough leftover to fund the benefit system for years to come.

[Gerry1874]

By 2030 we were/are heading for 1 in 10 of the population claiming PIP. Surely nobody thinks that's either reasonable or affordable?

[Cade]

They're doing this benefit cut to the most vulnerable in society under the pretence of saving about £1 billion a year (£5bil total by 2030)

 

They could instead just abolish housing benefit which costs £30 billion a year and is nothing more or less than public money being shovelled into Landlord's pockets because the market cannot bear the extortionate rents.

Successive Governments seem happy with that state of affairs. Paying out £30 billion so Landlords can keep their rents nice and high.

Bonkers.

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, Gerry1874 said:

By 2030 we were/are heading for 1 in 10 of the population claiming PIP. Surely nobody thinks that's either reasonable or affordable?

Shhoost man, get with the flow. You've got to get with the faux moral outrage on here.

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Cade said:

They're doing this benefit cut to the most vulnerable in society under the pretence of saving about £1 billion a year (£5bil total by 2030)

 

They could instead just abolish housing benefit which costs £30 billion a year and is nothing more or less than public money being shovelled into Landlord's pockets because the market cannot bear the extortionate rents.

Successive Governments seem happy with that state of affairs. Paying out £30 billion so Landlords can keep their rents nice and high.

Bonkers.

 

 

So how would some tenants pay their rents ? 

[Malinga the Swinga]

12 minutes ago, Cade said:

They're doing this benefit cut to the most vulnerable in society under the pretence of saving about £1 billion a year (£5bil total by 2030)

 

They could instead just abolish housing benefit which costs £30 billion a year and is nothing more or less than public money being shovelled into Landlord's pockets because the market cannot bear the extortionate rents.

Successive Governments seem happy with that state of affairs. Paying out £30 billion so Landlords can keep their rents nice and high.

Bonkers.

 

 

I fully agree with abolishing housing benefit. If tenants can't afford the asked for rent, out they go and someone who can afford it can move in. That's a great suggestion from you.

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I fully agree with abolishing housing benefit. If tenants can't afford the asked for rent, out they go and someone who can afford it can move in. That's a great suggestion from you.

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I like the way they've spun the benefit cuts as getting people back into work. Trouble is, by increasing employer's NICs, there are fewer low skilled jobs available. Good joined up government thinking there!

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

as others have said on various threads if you’ve got to be part of the rat-race for no significant increase in your standard of living why would you bother - work = struggle by - don’t work = struggle by 🤷‍♂️

 

paying a big bunch of the population (unlucky if you were a bus driver etc)to sit at home doing hee-haw for a couple of years has proved a costly policy in more ways than one as plenty people realising they can get out the rat-race by foregoing that higher spec car / extra holiday / meal out / more expensive cuts of meat etc to get by doing absolutely eff-all that they don’t want to do - no-one telling them what to do / can get up when they like and realising it’s much better to downgrade their (previously perceived) standard of life a level or two to fundamentally upgrade it

 

all the people with mental-health challenges following the deadly pathogen and being told who ever they were no matter how young or fit were just a sneeze away from death or even worse killing granny by passing her a coffee cup without being fully sanitised

 

long covid etc

 

what a mess

 

 

[Psychedelicropcircle]

Think it’s time we the electorate decided what they get as a wage. 
 

red tory pricks

[SE16 3LN]

Good to see that the Labour party is trying to deal with the 30% increase in people on Sickness and disability benefits since covid. 4 million people now, and half of the increase is due to Mental Health and Neuro Diversity issues. There must be a way of supporting a lot of these people back into work and undoing the damage caused by years of Westminster and Holyrood govt. inertia. 

 

**** the Blue/Tartan Tory pricks.

[Gundermann]

Neil Findlay has had enough. What took him so long?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3yp3l175do

[Gundermann]

15 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I fully agree with abolishing housing benefit. If tenants can't afford the asked for rent, out they go and someone who can afford it can move in. That's a great suggestion from you.

 

If the likes of Mr Radcliffe can't afford to keep Grangemouth then why should he get 'benefits' to the tune of £1bn for a new Man Utd stadium? He's just one trougher btw.

 

Austerity for the rich first.

[ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ]

18 hours ago, joondalupjambo said:

To get PIP payments a health professional does an assessment, not necessarily a Doctor and it is a DWP staff member who then has to authorise the getting of a payment. 

 

The problem for me seems to be that the assessment is too lax, not enough depth to it or that the assessment says that the person may have or might be having etc.  Too weak words around the assessment.

 

The DWP staff then are too frightened to challenge anything due to political pressure and/or lack of skills. 

 

Then everything just becomes a box ticking exercise and the ones who need challenged just slip through the net.  Like you I cannot see how this system can be tackled properly.  Very difficult politically.

 

 

Nah the PIP assessment's a terrible thing. My old mum had to go through one years ago, the ****er had her in tears.

 

Those health professionals are employed by a subcontractor, and incentivised to keep successful claims down.

They spend their whole day trying to find reasons not to recommend.

They don't care about genuine or not, just whether they can find a chink in the armour, a phrase, anything to hit that bonus.

 

Since Scotland went to Adult disability payment, the assessment is now made by contacting your GP.

 

There's no extra layer of subcontractors with those associated costs, it simply comes down to the medical condition and how it affects you, as told by the person that knows best.

 

This is what people say they want, the disabled getting what they should have isn't it?

And who better to advise than your doctor?

Scotland's done well there eh?

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

4 minutes ago, ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ said:

 

Nah the PIP assessment's a terrible thing. My old mum had to go through one years ago, the ****er had her in tears.

 

Those health professionals are employed by a subcontractor, and incentivised to keep successful claims down.

They spend their whole day trying to find reasons not to recommend.

They don't care about genuine or not, just whether they can find a chink in the armour, a phrase, anything to hit that bonus.

 

Since Scotland went to Adult disability payment, the assessment is now made by contacting your GP.

 

There's no extra layer of subcontractors with those associated costs, it simply comes down to the medical condition and how it affects you, as told by the person that knows best.

 

This is what people say they want, the disabled getting what they should have isn't it?

And who better to advise than your doctor?

Scotland's done well there eh?

 

 

I don't see how anyone can really argue with this.

[joondalupjambo]

10 minutes ago, ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ said:

 

Nah the PIP assessment's a terrible thing. My old mum had to go through one years ago, the ****er had her in tears.

 

Those health professionals are employed by a subcontractor, and incentivised to keep successful claims down.

They spend their whole day trying to find reasons not to recommend.

They don't care about genuine or not, just whether they can find a chink in the armour, a phrase, anything to hit that bonus.

 

Since Scotland went to Adult disability payment, the assessment is now made by contacting your GP.

 

There's no extra layer of subcontractors with those associated costs, it simply comes down to the medical condition and how it affects you, as told by the person that knows best.

 

This is what people say they want, the disabled getting what they should have isn't it?

And who better to advise than your doctor?

Scotland's done well there eh?

 

I think we are kind of agreeing here as an end result.  PIP regardless of how terrible the process is, or bad it is for the folk caught up in it are still involved in a box ticking exercise.  It must be a horrible time now to be caught up in it.

 

Scotland being different is probably a good thing if it takes out the sub contractor layer. However Doctors in GP practices alone do not have the full skill sets to diagnose some of today's health issues.  They can refer, and that is what I think they do but that then is causing delays and back logs in the necessary assessments.  So again not a perfect solution.

 

This is a nightmare for anyone involved in the process north or south of the Border because we should be as a nation helping those in need quickly with the minimum of beucraucy.

Edited March 19 by joondalupjambo

[ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ]

17 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

I think we are kind of agreeing here as an end result.  PIP regardless of how terrible the process is, or bad it is for the folk caught up in it are still involved in a box ticking exercise.  It must be a horrible time now to be caught up in it.

 

Scotland being different is probably a good thing if it takes out the sub contractor layer. However Doctors in GP practices alone do not have the full skill sets to diagnose some of today's health issues.  They can refer, and that is what I think they do but that then is causing delays and back logs in the necessary assessments.  So again not a perfect solution.

 

This is a nightmare for anyone involved in the process north or south of the Border because we should be as a nation helping those in need quickly with the minimum of beucraucy.

 

Who's better to ask about someone's overall health though?

GPs refer, it's what they do. If you haven't been similarly diagnosed for a PIP assessment you're DEFINITELY getting nothing.

 

It isn't even necessarily about just one condition, it's about the patient's overall health and ability to work, your GP's speciality basically.

[Stuart McNeill]

This is first major issue I've had with Labour since they have came in.

 

Cutting the welfare budget which affects the disabled and most vulnerable in society rather than going for the more wealthy in the country. 

 

We pay every pensioner over £880 a month regardless of their financial situation but that's never mentioned.. 

 

Unfortunately the country likes to beat down on those in society and it's good for optics for political parties to go for these people. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 hours ago, Gundermann said:

 

If the likes of Mr Radcliffe can't afford to keep Grangemouth then why should he get 'benefits' to the tune of £1bn for a new Man Utd stadium? He's just one trougher btw.

 

Austerity for the rich first.

I wouldn't donate 1p to Ratcliffe, Man Utd or any professional sports team. 

[joondalupjambo]

45 minutes ago, ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ said:

 

Who's better to ask about someone's overall health though?

GPs refer, it's what they do. If you haven't been similarly diagnosed for a PIP assessment you're DEFINITELY getting nothing.

 

It isn't even necessarily about just one condition, it's about the patient's overall health and ability to work, your GP's speciality basically.

Do you think  GP's will take the risk of saying somebody is fit and healthy to work if it means they lose benefit payments? A referral to a specialist takes away the problem from their door. 

 

You may be right that they should take the responsibility but that has been tried before and it was changed.  If you are simply saying change it back well I think you may have a long wait for that to happen in Scotland.  Maybe not and the politicians revert to that route but I really doubt it.