Is there anything in politics more shit than the Labour Party?

[Gundermann]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m not some snp drone like you. 
Im opening my eyes to what these politicians are doing to the place. 
 

 

You're just reinforcing my view that Alba are just some ragbag of alt-right Tartan Tories and out and out angel-whispering zoomers.

 

As to politicians, I don't really trust any of them, including the SNP, but it takes some acrobat to go from that to agreeing with billionaire politicians and ego-maniac grifters that immigrants are to blame for our ills.

Edited February 14, 2025 by Gundermann

[Gundermann]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

The BBC🤣🤣

Come on, I live in the North of England, I don't rely on the ****ing BBC never mind Sky or any other news outlets to sway what I hear when mixing with other "working class" people, you shouldn't either.

Are there racists in the North of England? Yes, but don't tar them all with the same brush.

I honestly thought you were much better than that.

 

I don't but I just observed that we don't hear these voices and those opinions very much. Also some non-sequiturs there. No-one mentioned relying on the BBC or Sky but both these platforms have a lot of sway with many people and there's a reason why the likes of Farage are pushed so often and the likes of the Greens, Mick Lynch and other trade unionists or the SNP aren't.

 

I've got close friends and family in the north east - some are ok but most of them very much are Brexiters and racists who are cock a hoop with Farage's progress and the victory of Trump.

Edited February 14, 2025 by Gundermann

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

You're just reinforcing my view that Alba are just some ragbag of alt-right Tartan Tories and out and out angel-whispering zoomers.

 

As to politicians, I don't really trust any of them, including the SNP, but it takes some acrobat to go from that to agreeing with billionaire politicians and ego-maniac grifters that immigrants are to blame for our ills.

I’ve never voted alba what are you talking about? I’ve never voted reform either but I’m getting close to it. 

I don’t think I have a political home I hate the feckin lot of them but I’m not agreeing with some lefty twat on QT who probably lives in some sheltered place that deals with none of the issues he’s pontificating about. 
I’ll say it again our politicians aren’t listening and they’re not going to like what happens next if they keep it up. 
 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Gundermann said:

 

I don't but I just observed that we don't hear these voices and those opinions very much.

 

I've got close friends and family in the north east - some are ok but most of them very much are Brexiters and racists who are cock a hoop with Farage's progress and the victory of Trump.

You just did.

There are, of course, the type you describe in the working classes in the North of England, but you really need to widen your social circle and not reply on what you read on the internet.

[Gundermann]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

I’ve never voted alba what are you talking about? I’ve never voted reform either but I’m getting close to it. 

I don’t think I have a political home I hate the feckin lot of them but I’m not agreeing with some lefty twat on QT who probably lives in some sheltered place that deals with none of the issues he’s pontificating about. 
I’ll say it again our politicians aren’t listening and they’re not going to like what happens next if they keep it up. 
 

 

As if that's an improvement. 

[Gundermann]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

You just did.

There are, of course, the type you describe in the working classes in the North of England, but you really need to widen your social circle and not reply on what you read on the internet.

 

No, I didn't. I observed two viewpoints but that one gets aired more than the other.

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

No, I didn't. I observed two viewpoints but that one gets aired more than the other.

Yes you did.

"Really? I can't think of the last time I heard a working-class northern English accent say that immigrants are not the cause of our problems"

[jack D and coke]

Just now, Gundermann said:

 

As if that's an improvement. 

You do you man👍🏼

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

lefty twat on QT who probably lives in some sheltered place that deals with none of the issues he’s pontificating about.

yep echo chamber types

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

And that's the nub of it Jack.

 

What these politicians are doing to the place. 

 

That's the same politicians that took us out of Europe, because it was the root of all our problems and if we only leave it will make the UK the best country in the universe. Farage was front and centre in that. How's that going?

 

That's the same politicians that took back control of our borders because that was the root of all our problems and if we could only do that it will make the UK the best country in the universe. Farage was front and centre in that too. How's that going?

 

That's the same politicians that want to take us out of the ECHR because it is the root of all our problems and if we could only leave that it will make the UK the best country in the universe. Farage is front and centre in that too. How's that going to go?

 

I'm going to stick my neck out here and suggest migrants aren't the problem? 

Wonderful post 👍🏽👏🏾

[Ron Burgundy]

Reform are a shoe in to get in. The silent majority will speak out at the ballot box. 

 

I don't know what the criteria is for legal migration into the UK but I expect it's a bit easier than for example if I wanted to emigrate to Australia or Canada. I'd need a job lined up references and various other criteria would need to be met.

 

Anyone entering the country illegally should be classed as a criminal and deported ASAP. 

[ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ]

8 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Reform are a shoe in to get in. The silent majority will speak out at the ballot box. 

 

I don't know what the criteria is for legal migration into the UK but I expect it's a bit easier than for example if I wanted to emigrate to Australia or Canada. I'd need a job lined up references and various other criteria would need to be met.

 

Anyone entering the country illegally should be classed as a criminal and deported ASAP. 

 

Just a wee reminder that entering a country unofficially and seeking refuge, isn't illegal 👍

 

Blame that goddamned Geneva convention. Bloody human rights, eh? 

[Ron Burgundy]

Just now, ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ said:

 

Just a wee reminder that entering a country unofficially and seeking refuge, isn't illegal 👍

 

Blame that goddamned Geneva convention. Bloody human rights, eh? 

So what would happen if I entered the States or Australia illegally? What about if I turned up in The UAE or Saudi Arabia or Qatar with no paperwork?  

Would they put me up in a hotel? Let me wander the streets until they decided what to do with me?

[ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ]

17 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

So what would happen if I entered the States or Australia illegally? What about if I turned up in The UAE or Saudi Arabia or Qatar with no paperwork?  

Would they put me up in a hotel? Let me wander the streets until they decided what to do with me?

 

Depends on whether you're a refugee or not.

 

But ask Tommy Robinson, who entered the US illegally, without claiming refuge of course. I don't think anything happened to him 🤷‍♂️

[Ron Burgundy]

Just now, ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ said:

 

Depends on whether you're a refugee or not.

 

But ask Tommy Robinson, who entered the US illegally, without claiming refuge of course. I don't think anything happened to him 🤷‍♂️

WTF has TR got to do with my question? 

 

And how are refugees arriving here? Should they not claim asylum in the first safe country they reach? Which country is at war that is next to our island that they are fleeing? France?

[ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ]

1 minute ago, Ron Burgundy said:

WTF has TR got to do with my question? 

 

And how are refugees arriving here? Should they not claim asylum in the first safe country they reach? Which country is at war that is next to our island that they are fleeing? France?

 

He's the only person I can name who entered the US illegally and didn't claim refuge 🤷‍♂️

**** all happened to him.

 

I don't believe there's any requirement to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach, no.

[Ron Burgundy]

3 minutes ago, ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ said:

 

He's the only person I can name who entered the US illegally and didn't claim refuge 🤷‍♂️

**** all happened to him.

 

I don't believe there's any requirement to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach, no.

With regards TR I'm sure he wouldn't have been allowed to stay indefinitely and then get housing and allowances whilst he was there should he have tried to claim refugee status. But we are digressing.

 

If you are allowed to globetrot whilst seeking asylum does this not mean they are  basically looking for the cushiest country to live in, and who would blame them?  I'd do the same but would also expect the locals who would be paying for me to be there to maybe feel a bit pissed off if I went there and didn't contribute.

[Dawnrazor]

47 minutes ago, ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ said:

 

Just a wee reminder that entering a country unofficially and seeking refuge, isn't illegal 👍

 

Blame that goddamned Geneva convention. Bloody human rights, eh? 

So the UK government are breaking the law by sending back "illegal" immigrants? 🤔

[dtgj]

51 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

So what would happen if I entered the States or Australia illegally? What about if I turned up in The UAE or Saudi Arabia or Qatar with no paperwork?  

Would they put me up in a hotel? Let me wander the streets until they decided what to do with me?

 

To be fair, they get put up in hotels because the UK Government (and in particular the Conservatives in power between 2010 and 2024) didn't bother to spend money on proper processing centres. I imagine other countries have done so. The countries you mention have all taken in refugees, as does the UK. 

[dtgj]

10 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

So the UK government are breaking the law by sending back "illegal" immigrants? 🤔

 

I suspect the UK are sending back people who have failed to meet the refugee criteria and are therefore here illegally. 

 

He is right that arriving and claiming refugee status in itself doesn't make it illegal. But there are requirements to be met to be a refugee and if you don't meet them you have entered the country illegally and get deported. 

[InternationalJambo]

11 minutes ago, dtgj said:

 

I suspect the UK are sending back people who have failed to meet the refugee criteria and are therefore here illegally. 

 

He is right that arriving and claiming refugee status in itself doesn't make it illegal. But there are requirements to be met to be a refugee and if you don't meet them you have entered the country illegally and get deported. 

But you don’t get deported. That’s the issue. 
 

“Klevis Disha, 39, entered the UK illegally as an unaccompanied minor. He later gave a fake name and falsely claimed to be born in the former Yugoslavia. He was stripped of his UK citizenship in 2021 after serving two years in prison when he was caught with £300,000 known to be proceeds of crime. It was later determined that he should forfeit citizenship because it had been “acquired through deception”. 
 

But an immigration tribunal ruled it would be “unduly harsh” for his 10-year-old son, known as ‘C’ in court documents, to return to Albania with his father owing to food sensitivities, sensory issues and difficulties communicating emotions. The only example listed in court documents was the young boy’s aversion to eating “the type of chicken nuggets that are available abroad”.

 

This story is only 3 days old. How many other are doing the same?

Edited February 14, 2025 by InternationalJambo

[Ron Burgundy]

4 minutes ago, dtgj said:

 

To be fair, they get put up in hotels because the UK Government (and in particular the Conservatives in power between 2010 and 2024) didn't bother to spend money on proper processing centres. I imagine other countries have done so. The countries you mention have all taken in refugees, as does the UK. 

Do you think that single males arriving here illegally without any sort of paperwork should be classed as refugees? Having passed through possibly numerous safe countries to get here?

No supposed refugee/asylum seeker should be allowed to mix with the general public until the government know exactly who they are. 

[dtgj]

5 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

But you don’t get deported. That’s the issue. 

Apart from all those that have been deported you mean? 

 

Just the other day the Home Office said 19,000 people had been deported since July - https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/deportation-flights-illegal-immigrants/

[Ron Burgundy]

Just now, dtgj said:

Apart from all those that have been deported you mean? 

 

Just the other day the Home Office said 19,000 people had been deported since July - https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/deportation-flights-illegal-immigrants/

If only they'd known about the chicken nugget loophole.

[dtgj]

2 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Do you think that single males arriving here illegally without any sort of paperwork should be classed as refugees? Having passed through possibly numerous safe countries to get here?

No supposed refugee/asylum seeker should be allowed to mix with the general public until the government know exactly who they are. 

 

Some of them might well be refugees. I haven't met them all or considered their cases. 

 

And I think my post was pretty clear that they should be processed in proper processing centres not housed in hotels? 

[InternationalJambo]

5 minutes ago, dtgj said:

Apart from all those that have been deported you mean? 

 

Just the other day the Home Office said 19,000 people had been deported since July - https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/deportation-flights-illegal-immigrants/

So I’d assume the numbers in this are included of people being offered cash to leave the country yes? Tax payers money I should add. 
 

Deportation of 18,800 people since July when the net numbers are over 750,000 for the last year which is expected to go above 1 million for 2025 is incredible work. 
 

Everything is fine. 

[ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ]

43 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

With regards TR I'm sure he wouldn't have been allowed to stay indefinitely and then get housing and allowances whilst he was there should he have tried to claim refugee status. But we are digressing.

 

If you are allowed to globetrot whilst seeking asylum does this not mean they are  basically looking for the cushiest country to live in, and who would blame them?  I'd do the same but would also expect the locals who would be paying for me to be there to maybe feel a bit pissed off if I went there and didn't contribute.

 

You're not a refugee, you'd be laughed out.

 

I don't know why you're pissed off at me, I didn't make up the rules, that was Winston Churchill and that lot 🤷‍♂️

[The Mighty Thor]

31 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

So the UK government are breaking the law by sending back "illegal" immigrants? 🤔

I'd imagine they would be if they tried to send back people claiming asylum without first hearing their claim.

 

It's all moot as we've already established that the UK has no asylum system at present* and furthermore you cannot claim asylum unless yiou are in the UK and you cannot enter the UK legally without having had an asylum claim settled. 

 

*with the exception of those seeking refuge under special circumstances from Afghanistan and Ukraine. 

[ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ]

33 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

So the UK government are breaking the law by sending back "illegal" immigrants? 🤔

 

They could well be, but I suspect it's actually people who've claimed refuge and been rejected due to not meeting the criteria.

 

Keep in mind though, seeking refuge is enough to make it legal, no matter what the eventual outcome is.

 

I must say, it's amazing that people who hold strong opinions on this don't know the rules they're complaining about.

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

So I’d assume the numbers in this are included of people being offered cash to leave the country yes? Tax payers money I should add. 
 

Deportation of 18,800 people since July when the net numbers are over 750,000 for the last year which is expected to go above 1 million for 2025 is incredible work. 
 

Everything is fine. 

You're conflating the number of people who arrived here legally, who would not be getting deported, to the 39,000 that arrived 'illegally' who would likely be gettimg returned after they have had their asylum claim heard. 

 

18,800 deportations now looks like a functioning system doesn't it?

[Ron Burgundy]

5 minutes ago, ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ said:

 

You're not a refugee, you'd be laughed out.

 

I don't know why you're pissed off at me, I didn't make up the rules, that was Winston Churchill and that lot 🤷‍♂️

Honestly, I'm not pissed off at you in the slightest. It's nice to have a chat with someone who most likely has an opposite opinion on the subject to me and it doesn't descend into name calling or snidey remarks.

[ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ]

19 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Honestly, I'm not pissed off at you in the slightest. It's nice to have a chat with someone who most likely has an opposite opinion on the subject to me and it doesn't descend into name calling or snidey remarks.

Cool, cheerfully withdrawn 👍

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

17 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Im not sure your grasping the issue and peoples concerns here Joe. Suspect thats not the first time someone has said that to you . 

Should rejoin the EU. The Dublin should sort out any immigration issues.

 

Good to see the horrible Julia Hartley-Brewer hand that extremely rich buffoon Tice his arse on a plate. Showed Reform up for the Russian stooges that they are. Didn't ever think I would type that.

 

 

 

[Sooperstar]

23 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Labour bullshitting about migrants?

Guy who owns a castle hotel in Cornwall said the govt offered him twice what he’d take in a year to close the hotel to the public and take 300 illegals. He was to get rid of all his staff etc too. 

There’s a rumor The Kings Manor on Milton Road is going down this route. 
What is going on?

But they’ve no money for this that and the next thing and screwing businesses for extra NI? 
There’s literally nothing surer than Reform making enormous strides next election. 

GB News reposted an interview from 2022 and you and many others have fallen for it.

 

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/camelot-castle-hotel-owner-cornwall-7689682

[Sooperstar]

10 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

GB News reposted an interview from 2022 and you and many others have fallen for it.

 

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/camelot-castle-hotel-owner-cornwall-7689682

It should be said though that I'm sure GB News didn't have any agenda when posting the 3 year old clip without any context.

 

There is no way they would have known that it would be jumped upon by the usual people and places who would immediately assume it was a current clip and then link it to the current Labour government.

[OTT]

56 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Should rejoin the EU. The Dublin should sort out any immigration issues.

 

Good to see the horrible Julia Hartley-Brewer hand that extremely rich buffoon Tice his arse on a plate. Showed Reform up for the Russian stooges that they are. Didn't ever think I would type that.

 

 

 

 

It would be interesting to see what that would look like. Did the UK not have extremely favourable terms prior to leaving?

 

(Had a look online)

 

- Opt Out from the Euro

- Exemption from the Schengen Area

- Rebate on EU contributions

- Greater control over the labour market & immigration (Apparently not required to open borders in the same way that newer EU members do

- Opt outs in certain parts of justice & home affairs 

- Social and employment law flexibility re EU directives

 

I.e the UK because of its older membership status had a bit of a sweetheart deal with the EU in those areas. The UK economy has been in the toilet since Brexit, so I do not see why the EU if the UK did reapply would offer the same terms. IMO it would be under the same terms as Croatia (for example). Whilst fair, that maybe wouldn't sit well with folk. 

 

The UK would not be negotiating from a position of strength and I think that would result in zero special concessions. 

[Gundermann]

4 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

Yes you did.

"Really? I can't think of the last time I heard a working-class northern English accent say that immigrants are not the cause of our problems"

 

On the BBC, FFS.

 

And when they do, they're dismissed as lefty wnks who aren't really working class.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Gundermann said:

 

On the BBC, FFS.

 

And when they do, they're dismissed as lefty wnks who aren't really working class.

"Really? I can't think of the last time I heard a working-class northern English accent say that immigrants are not the cause of our problems"

Is what you said.

[The Mighty Thor]

12 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

It would be interesting to see what that would look like. Did the UK not have extremely favourable terms prior to leaving?

 

(Had a look online)

 

- Opt Out from the Euro

- Exemption from the Schengen Area

- Rebate on EU contributions

- Greater control over the labour market & immigration (Apparently not required to open borders in the same way that newer EU members do

- Opt outs in certain parts of justice & home affairs 

- Social and employment law flexibility re EU directives

 

I.e the UK because of its older membership status had a bit of a sweetheart deal with the EU in those areas. The UK economy has been in the toilet since Brexit, so I do not see why the EU if the UK did reapply would offer the same terms. IMO it would be under the same terms as Croatia (for example). Whilst fair, that maybe wouldn't sit well with folk. 

 

The UK would not be negotiating from a position of strength and I think that would result in zero special concessions. 

 

It'll never happen. Starmer is shit feared of his own shadow and he's got the race baiting grifter breathing down his neck.

 

We're out and we're staying out and suffering the consequences of imposing economic sanctions on ourselves for at least another couple of election cycles by which time the fascination with populists will have faded and grown ups are back at the wheel. 

 

 

 

 

[Gundermann]

6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

"Really? I can't think of the last time I heard a working-class northern English accent say that immigrants are not the cause of our problems"

Is what you said.

 

In relation to my original post of a guy on BBCQT. As well you know.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Gundermann said:

 

In relation to my original post of a guy on BBCQT. As well you know.

I don't know that, you're a mind reader now?!

I asked you if you were in the North of England, because there were no caveats in your post where you said "Really? I can't think of the last time I heard a working-class northern English accent say that immigrants are not the cause of our problems"

You said you came to that conclusion by watching the BBC and reading the internet, then back tracked.

It's ok, it's obvious what you meant, everyone has their own prejudices, let's move on 👍

[Ulysses]

17 hours ago, ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ said:

 

It's been an education!

 

Indeed.

 

17 hours ago, ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ said:

Of sorts...

 

Also indeed.   

[Ulysses]

15 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Listen here you Johnny foreigner type, when Farage and Reform Ltd get in you'll not be coming here scrounging off our public services in your penthouse suite in the hostel in Preston. 

 

 

You're really not selling me this immigration lark at all.   

[Ulysses]

13 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

What are you getting at here?

 

That migrants who have applied to be here legally and are 'contributing' to the UK by working and paying their taxes (on top of the other levvies they pay just to be here) shouldn't be allowed to send their disposable income anywhere they chose?

 

I must have that wrong?

 

 

20 billion is about 0.6% of UK gross national income.

 

I send more than 0.6% of my gross personal income to Scotland every year.  Maybe the Irish should chuck me out as well. 

[Ulysses]

Since this has been turned into the "Reform good, migrants baaaaaaad" thread, I thought I'd start a new thread on the subject of the Labour Party, in case anyone was interested.  But no harm if you're not. 

 

 

 

 

[Ron Burgundy]

9 hours ago, Ulysses said:

Since this has been turned into the "Reform good, migrants baaaaaaad" thread, I thought I'd start a new thread on the subject of the Labour Party, in case anyone was interested.  But no harm if you're not. 

 

 

 

 

Have there been a lot of “Reform good” posts. I must have missed them. 
Is discussing illegal immigration and Labours failure to address it yet another topic that people who think they know best attempt to  shut down by snidely remarks such as “Reform good”. 
Deary *** me. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Have there been a lot of “Reform good” posts. I must have missed them. 
Is discussing illegal immigration and Labours failure to address it yet another topic that people who think they know best attempt to  shut down by snidely remarks such as “Reform good”. 
Deary *** me. 

👍

[Gundermann]

3 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Have there been a lot of “Reform good” posts. I must have missed them. 
Is discussing illegal immigration and Labours failure to address it yet another topic that people who think they know best attempt to  shut down by snidely remarks such as “Reform good”. 
Deary *** me. 

 

Illegal? How? Most 'illegals' are just those whose visas have run out apparently.

 

Not illegal to seek asylum.

 

Anyway, Labour has also apparently chucked out more people than your Tories did.

[Gundermann]

12 hours ago, Ulysses said:

Since this has been turned into the "Reform good, migrants baaaaaaad" thread, I thought I'd start a new thread on the subject of the Labour Party, in case anyone was interested.  But no harm if you're not. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah. Like someone said, there have been only 250k council houses built since Thatcher - yet we blame immigrants for lack of housing?

 

And, who to chuck out? Because all racists will eventually say 'oh, not that immigrant because...'. Like Farage with his own immigrant ancestry and his German wife. Most people I know have immigrant spouses or partners - ranging from each corner of Europe to Asia to Australia and North America. Are all these folk ok because we know them?

 

Same old simpletons blaming folk with little or no power for our problems instead of those who've held the power for decades.

Edited February 15, 2025 by Gundermann