****The All In One LGBTQ+ & Related Issues Mega Thread****

[Bobilius]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Wrong.  The why is completely relevant.  Rather doubt this will win any more Yes votes. In fact it'll reassure those undecided that there needs to be checks and balances. 

Couldn’t disagree more. It may make a few No voters more resolute but it won’t convert any to No. It will definitly make plenty Yes voters more resolute and will convert plenty to Yes. The brief look at Twitter I’ve had I’ve seen plenty saying it’s pushed them from Maybe to Yes. 

[Bobilius]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Or indy supporters, concerned by the causes championed by the SNP/Green coalition and the potential domination of an independent parliament by such freaks and geeks, hedging back to 'no'.

That would be the case with or without the Tory move today wouldn’t it though?

[Bobilius]

As far as political own goals go, this has to be right up there. Even Tory MSPs were begging them not to do it. 

 

[BlueRiver]

20 minutes ago, Bobilius said:

“Stuff like this”? For the first time in the 25 year history of the Scottish Parliament a s35 order has been used. Regardless of views on the GR bill, that is a massive constitutional move and it will be brought up again and again and again by the Indy campaign.

 

I know. I also don't think in 3-4 years time at any indy ref it'll play a major role. 

[Korky]

41 minutes ago, sadj said:

Based on that pathetic response to something you have NO idea about and all the assumptions youve made in your post. Im going to just not reply as I will get banned. Enjoy your celebration of people being denied the right to be themselves James 😶 

You’ve already been asked what rights trans people are being ‘denied’!

[Korky]

7 minutes ago, Bobilius said:

Couldn’t disagree more. It may make a few No voters more resolute but it won’t convert any to No. It will definitly make plenty Yes voters more resolute and will convert plenty to Yes. The brief look at Twitter I’ve had I’ve seen plenty saying it’s pushed them from Maybe to Yes. 

The reality is it won’t convert anyone either way. Views on independence are already deeply entrenched and this is an issue few people care about or really understand.

[XB52]

43 minutes ago, sadj said:

Based on that pathetic response to something you have NO idea about and all the assumptions youve made in your post. Im going to just not reply as I will get banned. Enjoy your celebration of people being denied the right to be themselves James 😶 

It's sad to see a minority celebrating a smaller minority losing hard fought for rights, although I am sure it will only be temporary. The glee actually sickens me.

[Bobilius]

5 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

I know. I also don't think in 3-4 years time at any indy ref it'll play a major role. 

That’s incredibly naive imo. They’re literally blocked a bill democratically voted for by 2/3 of our parliament. It’s central to the Indy argument.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Korky said:

The reality is it won’t convert anyone either way. Views on independence are already deeply entrenched and this is an issue few people care about or really understand.

Yep. I would completely agree with that.  That's the issue. Its at a standstill really as people are so entrenched  in their view about it.  This issue will have zero impact for the Indy cause. 

[Bobilius]

2 minutes ago, Korky said:

The reality is it won’t convert anyone either way. Views on independence are already deeply entrenched and this is an issue few people care about or really understand.

Deeply entrenched at either end of the scale. Plenty undecided and movable votes in the middle. This block moves zero voters towards No but will move some voters toward Yes. Huge gamble by Westminster.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, XB52 said:

It's sad to see a minority celebrating a smaller minority losing hard fought for rights, although I am sure it will only be temporary. The glee actually sickens me.

 

[Bobilius]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yep. I would completely agree with that.  That's the issue. Its at a standstill really as people are so entrenched  in their view about it.  This issue will have zero impact for the Indy cause. 

If you genuinely believe that then you’re kidding yourself. This will be a political powderkeg that will rumble on and on. (I don’t think you do genuinely believe it. I think you and a few other pro-Union posters are in denial)

 

Anyway, The Last Of Us is calling.

[Ron Burgundy]

1 minute ago, Bobilius said:

Deeply entrenched at either end of the scale. Plenty undecided and movable votes in the middle. This block moves zero voters towards No but will move some voters toward Yes. Huge gamble by Westminster.

Surely a lot of the undecided movable voters who are not insane will see this as a common sense intervention.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Bobilius said:

If you genuinely believe that then you’re kidding yourself. This will be a political powderkeg that will rumble on and on. (I don’t think you do genuinely believe it. I think you and a few other pro-Union posters are in denial)

 

Anyway, The Last Of Us is calling.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

 

3 minutes ago, Bobilius said:

If you genuinely believe that then you’re kidding yourself. This will be a political powderkeg that will rumble on and on. (I don’t think you do genuinely believe it. I think you and a few other pro-Union posters are in denial)

 

Anyway, The Last Of Us is calling.

sorry wrong gif lol.  ive a load of the white lotus ones 

have a good night 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Surely a lot of the undecided movable voters who are not insane will see this as a common sense intervention.

 

Thats my thinking. A safety net. 

[Sarah O]

40 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

You can mutilate your body as much as you like but you cannot change sex/mammal type no matter how much politicians try and tell you that fantasising about something makes it real.

The fact politicians actually spend time debating and wasting energy on something so feckin mental shows what a messed up place the world is.

People dying of hunger, living in poverty, or unable to get the medical treatment to save their lives yet we waste money on shit like this.

It's infuriating.

 

And because it's deemed right wing or uncool to state how feckin stupid it all is , intelligent people go along with it for fear of repercussions.

 

I used to think live and let live , they're hurting no one with their nonsense but not now. Now they want us all to buy into their mental illness and normalise it. GTF

 

[FWJ]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

What a load of crap.  The problem we have is if that legislation was enacted it would take away right for girls and women.  Something LGB people didnt do.  Its not the same  " fight " as LGB had.  " Suffering " ?  are you for real?  Arent you at all concerned about women and girls safety and rights to dignity and respect?  Seems your are the one with the issues around empathy and understanding , not me.

 

As for that old chestnut about expecting a gay person to have some inate pull to others fights , well that's  just nonsense.  The trans / self id lobby are vocal enough without my support or others.  

Do you still enjoy walking towards people “to see the fear in their eyes”  or is it less fun now that people better understand the risks of Covid?

[Sarah O]

38 minutes ago, Bobilius said:

And that’s why it’s a crazy decision numbers wise for the Tories. You are clearly against this particular bill and glad it’s has been blocked but at the end of the day it hasn’t converted you from Yes to No. There will however be people who are pro the bill and up to now who were No or Maybe who will be converted to Yes by this move.

It has pushed me from the SNP however. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Fabulous stuff on twitter. Lorna Slater slated for this. The replies are brilliant and so accurate.

 

 

 

[doctor jambo]

35 minutes ago, Bobilius said:

And that’s why it’s a crazy decision numbers wise for the Tories. You are clearly against this particular bill and glad it’s has been blocked but at the end of the day it hasn’t converted you from Yes to No. There will however be people who are pro the bill and up to now who were No or Maybe who will be converted to Yes by this move.

Not really - it is a direct appeal to the silent majority.

We will curb the insanity of the SNP.

We will contain their madness and PC bullshit.

We will guard your women and daughters .

You don’t have to admit it in public ( safer if you don’t !) but compared to the SNP we are the least mad in the room.

That is the play, and it will appeal to many.

[The Mighty Thor]

27 minutes ago, Bobilius said:

As far as political own goals go, this has to be right up there. Even Tory MSPs were begging them not to do it. 

 

That's got nothing to do with the constitutional own goal and more to do with the Tories knowing they'll be obliterated at the next election. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Do you still enjoy walking towards people “to see the fear in their eyes”  or is it less fun now that people better understand the risks of Covid?

 

 

desperate stuff. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Not really - it is a direct appeal to the silent majority.

We will curb the insanity of the SNP.

We will contain their madness and PC bullshit.

We will guard your women and daughters .

You don’t have to admit it in public ( safer if you don’t !) but compared to the SNP we are the least mad in the room.

That is the play, and it will appeal to many.

Great summary.

 

[manaliveits105]

Smurfs aw oor the place tonight trying to circle the wagons roond wee nippy 

the guid Scottish people have had enough of her bullshit 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, manaliveits105 said:

Smurfs aw oor the place tonight trying to circle the wagons roond wee nippy 

the guid Scottish people have had enough of her bullshit 

They really are. 

[Francis Albert]

54 minutes ago, Bobilius said:

“Stuff like this”? For the first time in the 25 year history of the Scottish Parliament a s35 order has been used. Regardless of views on the GR bill, that is a massive constitutional move and it will be brought up again and again and again by the Indy campaign.

s35 used once in 25 years suggests it is not being used capriciously to deny the Scottish Parliament's rights. Maybe the UK's case that it impacts on UK laws has some merit?

[doctor jambo]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

They really are. 

Indeed - she’s shot her load .

if you are going to go to the gallows for something , best be something the majority want.

This? niche topic , opposed by most, hardly likely to bring down the UK is it? Cannot see Scot’s manning the barricades over this and leapiing to independence .

More likely the other way.

It makes the tories look competent and rational.

Amd that’s saying something.

Sarawar played a blinder here voted for it so keeps the youth onside, yet is most definatley an SNP baby and easy to distance yourself from .

[Ron Burgundy]

11 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Smurfs aw oor the place tonight trying to circle the wagons roond wee nippy 

the guid Scottish people have had enough of her bullshit 

That's the thing I don't get and why I see it as almost cult-like.

 

If I wanted independence I'd want her as far from the political party as possible. She's a proven liar and now she's proven to be a complete nutjob playing to the latest idiotic trend.

 

If people want independence surely they want someone who has a chance of delivering it. She's blown it big time. Sane folk will (hopefully) never vote for a party who's leader actually believes anyone can be a woman or a man or neither or maybe take a day about.

 

SNP voters find it very hard to criticise their eternal leader.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

s35 used once in 25 years suggests it is not being used capriciously to deny the Scottish Parliament's rights. Maybe the UK's case that it impacts on UK laws has some merit?

😂

 

nah its the dice bring rolled by a party facing obliteration in around 18 months.

 

It forces Keith's hand as he now has to opine on it.

 

It also keeps their party chairman's tax evasion off the front pages.

 

If you actually think for one nano second that the party that's proposing to arrest you before you protest gives a shiny shite about women's or LGBTQ rights then you're beyond salvation 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Indeed - she’s shot her load .

if you are going to go to the gallows for something , best be something the majority want.

This? niche topic , opposed by most, hardly likely to bring down the UK is it? Cannot see Scot’s manning the barricades over this and leapiing to independence .

More likely the other way.

It makes the tories look competent and rational.

Amd that’s saying something.

Sarawar played a blinder here voted for it so keeps the youth onside, yet is most definatley an SNP baby and easy to distance yourself from .

Yep . I honestly feel there will be some sense of relief by the vast majority that the breaks for the time being have came to a halt with this legislation and with NS et al. Something had to give and it has. 

[doctor jambo]

11 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

That's the thing I don't get and why I see it as almost cult-like.

 

If I wanted independence I'd want her as far from the political party as possible. She's a proven liar and now she's proven to be a complete nutjob playing to the latest idiotic trend.

 

If people want independence surely they want someone who has a chance of delivering it. She's blown it big time. Sane folk will (hopefully) never vote for a party who's leader actually believes anyone can be a woman or a man or neither or maybe take a day about.

 

SNP voters find it very hard to criticise their eternal leader.

I have a feeling that she has been pandering to a part of the population into which she will slip after retiring , and is currying favour.

Politicians rarely do anything that is not in their own interests 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

That's the thing I don't get and why I see it as almost cult-like.

 

If I wanted independence I'd want her as far from the political party as possible. She's a proven liar and now she's proven to be a complete nutjob playing to the latest idiotic trend.

 

If people want independence surely they want someone who has a chance of delivering it. She's blown it big time. Sane folk will (hopefully) never vote for a party who's leader actually believes anyone can be a woman or a man or neither or maybe take a day about.

 

SNP voters find it very hard to criticise their eternal leader.

good posting. It boils down to reality versus fantasy,  Sturgeon et all are on the fantasy side whereas the general public believe in facts and reality.  If a politician is not able to say what a woman is , why would any voter waste the time of day with them in any other issues ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Sturgeon had an interesting view about section 28 it seems. 

 

Sturgeon is playing politics with her clumsy trans rights intervention | The Spectator

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I have a feeling that she has been pandering to a part of the population into which she will slip after retiring , and is currying favour.

Politicians rarely do anything that is not in their own interests 

She is hoping she is " on the right side of history"  shes picked her team let her deal with the consequences now.  

[FWJ]

36 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

 

 

desperate stuff. 

If that’s what pointing out your shameless hypocrisy is, then so be it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, FWJ said:

If that’s what pointing out your shameless hypocrisy is, then so be it.

Pathetic 

[Francis Albert]

30 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

😂

 

nah its the dice bring rolled by a party facing obliteration in around 18 months.

 

It forces Keith's hand as he now has to opine on it.

 

It also keeps their party chairman's tax evasion off the front pages.

 

If you actually think for one nano second that the party that's proposing to arrest you before you protest gives a shiny shite about women's or LGBTQ rights then you're beyond salvation 

Well that will certainly be the SNP party line. 

Never mind the merits of the issue.

[Bobilius]

50 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Not really - it is a direct appeal to the silent majority.

We will curb the insanity of the SNP.

We will contain their madness and PC bullshit.

We will guard your women and daughters .

You don’t have to admit it in public ( safer if you don’t !) but compared to the SNP we are the least mad in the room.

That is the play, and it will appeal to many.

That argument would definitely hold water if the bill had scraped through on SNP and Green votes. It went through with a 2/3 majority and MSPs from every party voting for it. Therefore, it’s not Westminter curbing SNP insanity, it’s Westminster curbing the democratically elected Scottish  Parliament.

[Bobilius]

54 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

It has pushed me from the SNP however. 

Understandable but again that’s the bill that’s done that, not the move today by Westminster and even then you remain pro-Indy.

[FWJ]

27 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Pathetic 

Not much I can say against such a detailed and compelling response.

[Francis Albert]

Will men who have self identified as women be legally or defacto women when they cross the border? 

If so the legislation affects the UK and s35 comes into play however strong the Holyrood vote.

 

 

[Bobilius]

10 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Will men who have self identified as women be legally or defacto women when they cross the border? 

If so the legislation affects the UK and s35 comes into play however strong the Holyrood vote.

 

 

Whatever the answer to that question is just now will be the same once (if) the GRR bill comes into law. Right now someone can go through the two year process and seek a GR certificate and be legally classed as a woman. They can then cross the border. Is the current right to go through that 2 year process impinging on the Equality Act?

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

2 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

You can mutilate your body as much as you like but you cannot change sex/mammal type no matter how much politicians try and tell you that fantasising about something makes it real.

The fact politicians actually spend time debating and wasting energy on something so feckin mental shows what a messed up place the world is.

People dying of hunger, living in poverty, or unable to get the medical treatment to save their lives yet we waste money on shit like this.

It's infuriating.

 

And because it's deemed right wing or uncool to state how feckin stupid it all is , intelligent people go along with it for fear of repercussions.

 

I used to think live and let live , they're hurting no one with their nonsense but not now. Now they want us all to buy into their mental illness and normalise it. GTF

 

 

I don't know who you mean by 'they' RB. Nothing in any human endeavour that is worth a damn is as simple as black and white; them versus us. Why are people so desperate to polarise everything and then get so angry with the other side. As if it was about sides.

 

The legislation wasn't crafted by Nicola Sturgeon alone. There were years of lobbying to recognise trans rights and the right for any individual to make their own minds up rather than have it proscribed, occasionally wrongly, by a doctor. 

 

What it is all about is normalising the right for people to choose for themselves.

 

I really don't understand why that is so threatening to you that you have to refer to that as a mental illness.

[Bobilius]

8 minutes ago, Bobilius said:

Whatever the answer to that question is just now will be the same once (if) the GRR bill comes into law. Right now someone can go through the two year process and seek a GR certificate and be legally classed as a woman. They can then cross the border. Is the current right to go through that 2 year process impinging on the Equality Act?

This question does raise some other interesting questions worth discussing…

 

Does a GRC gained in another country (Ireland, Denmark etc) allow the person to act as de facto woman in the UK? If so how is this compatible with the Equality Act?

 

If the Scottish GRR bill had sought to only reduce the “living as a woman” period from 2 years to 18 months would it still have caused issues with the Equality Act? Is it simply the fact it is different from the current UK legislatian?

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

24 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Will men who have self identified as women be legally or defacto women when they cross the border? 

If so the legislation affects the UK and s35 comes into play however strong the Holyrood vote.

 

 

 

It's not men identifying as women. It is people who identify as a woman or vice versa or neither being able to do so in Scotland. People of all genders travel all across the world....even LGBTQ+

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

😂

 

nah its the dice bring rolled by a party facing obliteration in around 18 months.

 

It forces Keith's hand as he now has to opine on it.

 

It also keeps their party chairman's tax evasion off the front pages.

 

If you actually think for one nano second that the party that's proposing to arrest you before you protest gives a shiny shite about women's or LGBTQ rights then you're beyond salvation 

Pretty good summation. 

[BlueRiver]

2 hours ago, Bobilius said:

And that’s why it’s a crazy decision numbers wise for the Tories. You are clearly against this particular bill and glad it’s has been blocked but at the end of the day it hasn’t converted you from Yes to No. There will however be people who are pro the bill and up to now who were No or Maybe who will be converted to Yes by this move.

 

Why would that logic only flow one way? 

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

1 minute ago, Bobilius said:

This question does raise some other interesting questions worth discussing…

 

Does a GRC gained in another country (Ireland, Denmark etc) allow the person to act as de facto woman in the UK? If so how is this compatible with the Equality Act?

 

If the Scottish GRR bill had sought to only reduce the “living as a woman” period from 2 years to 18 months would it still have caused issues with the Equality Act? Is it simply the fact it is different from the current UK legislatian?

 

No one really needs the answer to that. It's a philosophical point that doesn't exist in the real world. And, none of it is incompatible with the Equalities Act.

[Bobilius]

5 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Why would that logic only flow one way? 

What part of Westminster blocking something voted for by 2/3 of our Parliament would logically make a Maybe or Yes voter convert to a No?