***** The Hearts B super thread - Liam Fox confirmed as coach ******

[GBJambo]

32 minutes ago, hmfc4life1991 said:

It's honestly ridiculous that he's still waiting. Been lying on a makeshift bed in a neck brace jn the middle of the street basically for well over an hour!! 

Is he still there? Hope it’s nothing serious which could make it worse if he’s not getting medical attention 

 

 

[Footballfirst]

On today's evidence the LL is proving a far bigger challenge than the Hearts coaching staff probably imagined.  Individual errors can happen, but the defence doesn't appear to have learned from mistakes, given the way that they are losing goals, and is plainly lacking confidence

 

The squad is threadbare with just a couple of injuries (Watson and Flatman) and the decision to put a couple of the more experienced guys out on loan.

 

The U18s are similarly affected with them having to play U16s in order to make up the numbers (they lost 4-0 at Aberdeen yesterday).  Hearts apparently tried to sign a centre back from Celtic, but he was told (on the bus) that he wouldn't be able to play because Celtic hadn't completed their part of the registration process.  

[hmfc4life1991]

33 minutes ago, GBJambo said:

Is he still there? Hope it’s nothing serious which could make it worse if he’s not getting medical attention 

 

 

I mean he was still there at 20 past 5 when I left. No idea when he was finally picked up. 

[Footballfirst]

I've been told that the ambulance came at 17:50.  Considering that the injury occurred at 15:40 and he was carried off 15 minutes later, that is shocking.

[steve123]

Horrible news about injury, just realised the level they were playing against I worked with a boy that plays for Boness although not in the squad today- Got to wonder what they are learning from this and if they are really the quality if been beaten by such teams.

[frankblack]

9 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I've been told that the ambulance came at 17:50.  Considering that the injury occurred at 15:40 and he was carried off 15 minutes later, that is shocking.

 

Sadly that is an all too frequent occurrence with our ambulance service.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

17 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I've been told that the ambulance came at 17:50.  Considering that the injury occurred at 15:40 and he was carried off 15 minutes later, that is shocking.

Awful. Hope he is OK.

[VALDOS']

21 minutes ago, steve123 said:

Horrible news about injury, just realised the level they were playing against I worked with a boy that plays for Boness although not in the squad today- Got to wonder what they are learning from this and if they are really the quality if been beaten by such teams.

I think a lot of these players will probably be slightly shocked by the physical side of the game at this level, definitely a lot less protection provided.

But the idea is that will stand them in good stead for the future

 

[Jarhead]

I thought CSS had looked decent but Bo’ness were a different level again. I think they would be pretty competitive at League 2 level. 
I’m not sure how Hearts managed to reach half time without being at least 6 goals down. 
Although they hit the woodwork a few times in the 2nd half I’m unsure if Hearts improved or Bo’ness just took their foot off the gas. 
I hate saying this but Hearts 1st half performance was naive in the extreme. 
It’s a strange thing but we may just have to accept that the style of football we are playing will be a struggle against older and physically stronger players. It might be good for their technical development but it may be at the detriment of winning games especially when the pitches deteriorate during the winter. 
The young lads will have to learn quickly if they want to get anything out of this level. 
 

The injury to the keeper happened right in front and he took a sickening hit when attempting to collect the ball on the ground. The wait for the ambulance was really disappointing (mildly understating feeling!) as the injury could have been very serious. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

What was our starting line up today?

[Footballfirst]

7 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

What was our starting line up today?

Looked like a 4-1-4-1 formation to start with.

McFarlane

Gordon, Rathie, Darge, Dall

Tait

Thomas Denholm Pollock McLuckie

Ferguson

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

Looked like a 4-1-4-1 formation to start with.

McFarlane

Gordon, Rathie, Darge, Dall

Tait

Thomas Denholm Pollock McLuckie

Ferguson

Thanks

who came on for McFarlane when he went off? And was stone injured do you know?

[Footballfirst]

Just now, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Thanks

who came on for McFarlane when he went off? And was stone injured do you know?

Stone came on for McFarlane.  I think McFarlane has started two LL games thus far, with Stone on the bench. It can only to be give him some game time, otherwise he wouldn't get any as he is too old for the U18s.

 

McFarlane put himself in harm's way when he got injured. He called out "keeper" but didn't get there. Rathie could have dealt with it, but Jamie McCormack got to the ball first just before the keeper's head got caught by McCormack's boot. It was a stonewall penalty.

[Bigteam]

14 hours ago, Jarhead said:

I thought CSS had looked decent but Bo’ness were a different level again. I think they would be pretty competitive at League 2 level. 
I’m not sure how Hearts managed to reach half time without being at least 6 goals down. 
Although they hit the woodwork a few times in the 2nd half I’m unsure if Hearts improved or Bo’ness just took their foot off the gas. 
I hate saying this but Hearts 1st half performance was naive in the extreme. 
It’s a strange thing but we may just have to accept that the style of football we are playing will be a struggle against older and physically stronger players. It might be good for their technical development but it may be at the detriment of winning games especially when the pitches deteriorate during the winter. 
The young lads will have to learn quickly if they want to get anything out of this level. 
 

The injury to the keeper happened right in front and he took a sickening hit when attempting to collect the ball on the ground. The wait for the ambulance was really disappointing (mildly understating feeling!) as the injury could have been very serious. 

Surely it’s all about individual development for the players at this level . Winning/losing is really irrelevant is it not ?

[Jarhead]

1 hour ago, Bigteam said:

Surely it’s all about individual development for the players at this level . Winning/losing is really irrelevant is it not ?

To an extent that’s true. However, winning breeds confidence which can accelerate their development. 
The first half yesterday will help no one if they don’t use it as a painful lesson that losing isn’t a lot of fun. 
I also suspect that the OF B teams have it stressed to them what the ultimate demands of professional football are. 
So yes, winning isn’t the be all and end all for our B team but I don’t see how they can expect to make it at Hearts if they find the Lowland League a struggle. To me it is as much about mindset as it is raw ability. 

[Footballfirst]

I was at Riccarton earlier this afternoon watching the U14s/U16s v ICT. I spoke to Frankie McAvoy to ask how Liam was.  He told me that he is not in hospital, but doesn't know the extent of any injury that remains.

[Rab WL]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

I was at Riccarton earlier this afternoon watching the U14s/U16s v ICT. I spoke to Frankie McAvoy to ask how Liam was.  He told me that he is not in hospital, but doesn't know the extent of any injury that remains.

Hope Liam is ok. BU’s too strong for the young Jambos and scored some fine goals.

hope lessons learned

 

[Baldy61]

Cant see mentioned anywhere.

Presume game v Celtic B still on today. 1pm Rosewell. 

 

 

 

[Niemi’s gloves]

Coverage on the @heartsbteam Twitter account. Team news due shortly 

2 hours ago, Baldy61 said:

Cant see mentioned anywhere.

Presume game v Celtic B still on today. 1pm Rosewell. 

 

 

 

 

[Niemi’s gloves]

Young team with no players with SPFL experience in the starting line up, though I assume the Watson in the subs is Leo Watson making a welcome return from injury. Under-18 goalkeeper Zac Paris between the sticks. Obviously McFarlane was injured last week but whether this means that Harry Stones is in the first team squad today, we’ll find out later. 

[Stanley_]

1-0 down after 4 minutes. It's going to be a long season.

[Sertse]

Paris? Is this his first game? Can't say I've heard of him

[Scott Leitch]

55 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

Young team with no players with SPFL experience in the starting line up, though I assume the Watson in the subs is Leo Watson making a welcome return from injury. Under-18 goalkeeper Zac Paris between the sticks. Obviously McFarlane was injured last week but whether this means that Harry Stones is in the first team squad today, we’ll find out later. 

I think McFarlane is with the first team squad today...

[Ford Prentice]

1-1 come on the young team.

[John Findlay]

7 minutes ago, Sertse said:

Paris? Is this his first game? Can't say I've heard of him

Went to Hearts from Spartans. 1-1 now

[Hesh]

17 minutes ago, Scott Leitch said:

I think McFarlane is with the first team squad today...

Not sure that’s correct after his injury the other week 

[Jarhead]

Feared the worst after the first 5 minutes but other than that they’ve played really well in the following 40. 
You can see the benefits from closing down the opposition at the times Naismith instructs them to. 

[sniffer]

28 minutes ago, Hesh said:

Not sure that’s correct after his injury the other week 

McFarlane is on the bench at Parkhead.

[Hesh]

5 minutes ago, sniffer said:

McFarlane is on the bench at Parkhead.

It’s a fair cop, I stand corrected 

[Saint Jambo]

Finished 1-1.

[Ford Prentice]

Well done the wee team. 

[heartsfc_fan]

Not a bad result.

[Baldy61]

Draw probably fair result. Good goal from jts. After going behind. Hopefully big team likewise but not holding breath. 

[Footballfirst]

That's the best I've seen the B Team play all season, including the 6-0 win over Berwick (10 men).

 

It's probably no coincidence that they weren't up against an experienced adult side, but players of a similar age and physique. 

 

It was still a youthful Hearts side whose starting line-up contained 6 U18s (Paris, Forrester, Rathie, Tait, Sandilands and McLuckie).

[davemclaren]

15 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

That's the best I've seen the B Team play all season, including the 6-0 win over Berwick (10 men).

 

It's probably no coincidence that they weren't up against an experienced adult side, but players of a similar age and physique. 

 

It was still a youthful Hearts side whose starting line-up contained 6 U18s (Paris, Forrester, Rathie, Tait, Sandilands and McLuckie).

Ignoring the principle around it, do you reckon playing at this level is looking a good move for Hearts so far?

[Footballfirst]

21 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Ignoring the principle around it, do you reckon playing at this level is looking a good move for Hearts so far?

No.  I don't think that Hearts understood the implications of fielding sides at U18 and B Team level as well as giving first team fringe players game time.  I think that they thought the B team was more like a reserve team arrangement.

 

If what I heard today from well connected people is correct, the club was not aware of the age restrictions placed on a B team and limitations of first team appearances, before committing itself to the League. I think that there was an expectation that they could field Smith, Logan, McGill, Neilson, Pollock etc. quite freely, but that is not the case.

 

Recent fist team selections have also seen the likes of Smith and Pollock sitting on the bench, with no minutes and no development.

 

Because of the need to play U18s in the B Team, It has also been necessary to recruit cast offs from Celtic and Rangers to make up the numbers in the U18 side.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Footballfirst

[davemclaren]

8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

No.  I don't think that Hearts understood the implications of fielding sides at U18 and B Team level as well as giving first team fringe players game time.  I think that they thought the B team was more like a reserve team arrangement.

 

If what I heard today from well connected people is correct, the club was not aware of the age restrictions placed on a B team and limitations of first team appearances, before committing itself to the League. I think that there was an expectation that they could field Smith, Logan, McGill, Neilson, Pollock etc. quite freely, but that is not the case.

 

Recent fist team selections have also seen the likes of Smith and Pollock sitting on the bench, with no minutes and no development.

 

Because of the need to play U18s in the B Team, It has also been necessary to recruit cast offs from Celtic and Rangers to make up the numbers in the U18 side.

 

 

Not very professional if that’s the case. 

[Gorgierools]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

No.  I don't think that Hearts understood the implications of fielding sides at U18 and B Team level as well as giving first team fringe players game time.  I think that they thought the B team was more like a reserve team arrangement.

 

If what I heard today from well connected people is correct, the club was not aware of the age restrictions placed on a B team and limitations of first team appearances, before committing itself to the League. I think that there was an expectation that they could field Smith, Logan, McGill, Neilson, Pollock etc. quite freely, but that is not the case.

 

Recent fist team selections have also seen the likes of Smith and Pollock sitting on the bench, with no minutes and no development.

 

Because of the need to play U18s in the B Team, It has also been necessary to recruit cast offs from Celtic and Rangers to make up the numbers in the U18 side.

 

 

If true, and I have no reason to doubt you, that's very unprofessional. 

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, Gorgierools said:

If true, and I have no reason to doubt you, that's very unprofessional. 

The only "rule" that was quoted in the joint SFA/SPFL/SLFL statement announcing the 3 x B Teams in the LL for this season, was the requirement to field a minimum of 7 players who were eligible to play for Scotland.

 

Even the SLFL own league rules do not make any reference to age restrictions other than that all players have to be 16 or over.

 

My understanding was that the OF B sides undertook an informal agreement about the age/appearance limits last season. That may/may not have been documented and circulated among the clubs. It appears that the same arrangements are in place for this season.

 

The questions are therefore, was the person signing off Hearts application aware of the unpublished "rules" and, if not, when did Hearts become aware.

 

All sides fielded by Hearts in this season's LL have complied with the the age limits, so the club was at least made aware of their obligations early in the piece.

[lost in space]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

No.  I don't think that Hearts understood the implications of fielding sides at U18 and B Team level as well as giving first team fringe players game time.  I think that they thought the B team was more like a reserve team arrangement.

 

If what I heard today from well connected people is correct, the club was not aware of the age restrictions placed on a B team and limitations of first team appearances, before committing itself to the League. I think that there was an expectation that they could field Smith, Logan, McGill, Neilson, Pollock etc. quite freely, but that is not the case.

 

Recent fist team selections have also seen the likes of Smith and Pollock sitting on the bench, with no minutes and no development.

 

Because of the need to play U18s in the B Team, It has also been necessary to recruit cast offs from Celtic and Rangers to make up the numbers in the U18 side.

 

 

Did Hearts not enter a B team into the league as there was not (at that time) a Reserve League?

I don't know the timelines but it seems to me that it was a reasonable/good plan to enter a B team - IF they were not sure there was going to be Reserves.

Can you clarity FF?

[Mikey1874]

No matter the problems you have to start somewhere. 

 

It does give the incentive to fill the squads. Certainly wouldn't turn nose up at Rangers or Celtic youngsters. 

 

More about where we are in 3 or 4 years.

 

 

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, lost in space said:

Did Hearts not enter a B team into the league as there was not (at that time) a Reserve League?

I don't know the timelines but it seems to me that it was a reasonable/good plan to enter a B team - IF they were not sure there was going to be Reserves.

Can you clarity FF?

There was certainly a timing issue about Hearts application to join the LL. At the time of the closing date, there appeared little prospect of a Reserve League happening this season, as Celtic, Rangers Hibs and others had indicated that they wanted to do their own thing.

 

We now know that 10 clubs across the SPFL have now gone down the route of forming a Reserve League of sorts (a nine game season).  I don't think that such a set up would have been deemed to be in Hearts best interests at the start of the season, so the B team was the best available option, if the club wished to avoid getting into multiple loan agreements.

[lost in space]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

There was certainly a timing issue about Hearts application to join the LL. At the time of the closing date, there appeared little prospect of a Reserve League happening this season, as Celtic, Rangers Hibs and others had indicated that they wanted to do their own thing.

 

We now know that 10 clubs across the SPFL have now gone down the route of forming a Reserve League of sorts (a nine game season).  I don't think that such a set up would have been deemed to be in Hearts best interests at the start of the season, so the B team was the best available option, if the club wished to avoid getting into multiple loan agreements.

Thanks. 

Yes, options were not ideal but does look, despite the issues you pointed out, that we made the right choice.

[Footballfirst]

Just now, lost in space said:

Thanks. 

Yes, options were not ideal but does look, despite the issues you pointed out, that we made the right choice.

Yes, I would agree with that for the "U20s", but it doesn't help the group of U21s at the club, who are either going to be punted out on loan, with a questionable future, or reliant on multiple injuries/suspensions for RN to give them a chance in the first team.

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

No.  I don't think that Hearts understood the implications of fielding sides at U18 and B Team level as well as giving first team fringe players game time.  I think that they thought the B team was more like a reserve team arrangement.

 

If what I heard today from well connected people is correct, the club was not aware of the age restrictions placed on a B team and limitations of first team appearances, before committing itself to the League. I think that there was an expectation that they could field Smith, Logan, McGill, Neilson, Pollock etc. quite freely, but that is not the case.

 

Recent fist team selections have also seen the likes of Smith and Pollock sitting on the bench, with no minutes and no development.

 

Because of the need to play U18s in the B Team, It has also been necessary to recruit cast offs from Celtic and Rangers to make up the numbers in the U18 side.

 

 

Interesting version of events. I do know that a couple of the younger first team squad knew that if we entered the Lowland League they would be too old to play and therefore had already requested to go out on loan to get game time. 

[Footballfirst]

It seems the Steven Naismith agrees with my view of today's game.

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/naisy-improvement-was-there

 

B Team manager Steven Naismith has put a much-improved display from his players down to having more time on the training ground to work on different aspects of the game, writes Jamie McIntosh. 

The Wee Jambos recovered from a shaky opening ten minutes to produce a very disciplined performance against Celtic B, one of their best displays of the season according to Naismith:
 
“It was a really good performance. I think it’s up there with one of our best ones. Our discipline out of possession and the structure of the team we did a lot of work on during the week.
 
“This is the first week we’ve been able to have a few training days leading up to a game and I think you could see that.
 
“I thought we showed really good composure in possession to not just sit in and play for a draw we tried to go and win the game and we probably had the better chances in the game, and I don’t think anyone could argue if we had won it.”
 
With some B Team regulars being called into the first team squad, The Wee Jambos had a number of under 18s in the squad and Naismith was very impressed with the way we stuck to an intense gameplan.
 
“It takes a lot for these younger players who think that a good attitude is chasing the ball down and running here and there, but the higher you go the more tactical and technical it gets.
 
“That was the most pleasing aspect of it. We had so many players who’s positions tweaked slightly, but they all grasped it well and then we’ve got five or six under 18’s playing. That is so valuable for these guys to play 80 or 90 minutes in a game like this.
 
The men in maroon travel to East Stirling next Friday and Naismith is hoping this performance can kickstart a positive run of results.
 
“After a really intense period where it’s game after game we have got a wee bit more time to work on things and go over this performance and improve other aspects of the game, so we need to use this now to try and build a level of consistency, because the only thing that is going to get these players into the first team is consistency.”

Edited August 21, 2022 by Footballfirst

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

As long as they learn it's the right decision to play, if not then no, but only time will tell,  far too early to know 

[VivaObua]

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier in the thread but does anyone know who's all involved staff wise with out B team and who's doing under 18 stuff?

[Footballfirst]

52 minutes ago, VivaObua said:

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier in the thread but does anyone know who's all involved staff wise with out B team and who's doing under 18 stuff?

The B Team has its regular coaches as Steven Naismith and Donald Park. The U18s normally have John McLaughlan and Steven Hamilton.  Others have stepped in from time to time, including Frankie McAvoy and Dale Carrick

Edited August 23, 2022 by Footballfirst

[VivaObua]

6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The B Team has its regular coaches at Steven Naismith and Donald Park. The U18s normally have John McLaughlan and Steven Hamilton.  Others have stepped in from time to time, including Frankie McAvoy and Dale Carrick

 

Thanks.