*** Hearts Summer Transfer Window 2022 - Snodgrass signs ***

[Mr Elwood P]

2 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Explain? Surley that's not  a reference to mental disabilities or conditions? 

Bit low if so. 

 

Expected better from you and quite a leap in the tone of the conversation regarding the exchange of posts about GVB. 

 

You've been triggered, fair enough. 

 

As I say-

 

 

 

 

 

David Cameron gif? It was the next logical step for this thread I suppose ...

[Mr Elwood P]

30 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Celtic have had CL group stage and even knockout round income occasionally over the past decade. It hasn't fundamentally altered the dynamics of the SPFL before and it won't this year. The year before that 2019-20 season both clubs made the Europa group stages and Celtic made the round of 32.

 

If either club starts locking up the CL group stages every season, then there's a chance for one of them to pull away from the other. Both clubs have routinely struggled to get through the CL playoff rounds on their own. At the very least, if we qualify for regular group stages, we'll close the gap on one of the cheeks, even if the other pulls away.

The last decade where Celtic have won something like 26/30 of the Honours in Scottish Football? Yeah definitely not been an unusual period at all ...

[karipidis]

11 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Yeah I think 1000/1 would be more appropriate. We've not had anyone win the Premiership outside of the Old Firm since the 1980's ...

I agree, but think after Leicesters win the bookies are a lot tighter with these odds 

[Rudy T]

35 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

Still surprised he made the comment waiting for Wolves to make a decision. Definitely implied that there's contact 

That'll be the same situation for anyone interested in signing him, it’s up to Wolves what they want or if they even want to let him go. 

[reaths17]

2 hours ago, merseyjambo said:

IIRC, we lost the first leg 2-1 then lost either 2 or 3-1 up there.

 

Got memories of the Georgie Aggro causing mayhem on the Mount Everest terrace that night and I’m sure the game had to be stopped.

memories no the great after such a long time, 77 we lost on pens, 84 bowman got sent off. lotta games against dundee utd over the years lol, only 2 that stand out are robbos double in 3-0 86 and last seasons 5-2 which will have confused with the rest in a years time but 86 will last forever, really thought we'd won the league that day. bus got ambushed at traffic lights coming back from one of those 2 cup games, windows got tanned and a laddie got a brick over the head that resulted in a polis escort to the hospital

[CMc]

52 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

Need striker in before start of the season. Week before or earlier preferably.

Would be great if we did. 
 

However…

 

Simms has played with most of the lads before. He shouldn’t need ages to reacclimatise if we get him.

 

Shankland has played with Forrest before and hopefully those two would not take ages to reconnect should he sign. 
 

They would not be coming in completely cold. 
 

I don’t know exactly our set up, but I know that lots of coaches drill defensive shape and set pieces and practice the build up from the back a huge amount in comparison to open play attack. Good coaches have a broad system in the final third - prioritising overloads, width and switches for example- but these are not always drilled to the point of automaticity in the way defensive and set piece structures are. 
 

Obviously more practice is better than less practice and the longer attacking players have to get on the same wavelength, the better. But I’d rather have virtually all the defenders and midfielders in already and be waiting on the attackers than the other way around. 
 

Edited June 30, 2022 by CMc

[Mr Elwood P]

40 minutes ago, karipidis said:

I agree, but think after Leicesters win the bookies are a lot tighter with these odds 

I don't think Hearts have every been anything close to Leicester's 5000/1. I've only ever seen us around 250/1 ...  

[ramrod]

Pretty sure Ronan will end up at Aberdeen , if nothing else we will ensure they pay top dollar for him .

[Aussie Jambo]

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

31 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Pretty sure Ronan will end up at Aberdeen , if nothing else we will ensure they pay top dollar for him .

Which is every reason, so long as we have a superior player to acquire, to at least keep this one bubbling. 

 

Pretty sure they forced our hand with Sammon years ago, ended up offering more than we should have. Well a £ would have been too much 

[Dick Dastardly]

3 hours ago, Wilson said:

EIA. Exercise Induced Asthma. Estimated 30% of elite footballers have it. Let's say some are sceptical...

It does sound quite dodgy 

[Sertse]

1 hour ago, jambopilms said:

Give it an hour someone will be along claiming to be ITK and Ronan is a done deal, then disappear or leave a few 👍👍or 😉😉

👀

[ShadyAcres]

Sod all to do with with Transfers but I've had a few beers and I couldn't be bothered finding a suitable thread. Why do we insist on wearing last season's kit in the new seasons friendlies?!  That's all ..oh yeah..Ronan....watch this space....err.. its happening  👀👀

[Goodfella]

14 minutes ago, ShadyAcres said:

Sod all to do with with Transfers but I've had a few beers and I couldn't be bothered finding a suitable thread. Why do we insist on wearing last season's kit in the new seasons friendlies?!  That's all ..oh yeah..Ronan....watch this space....err.. its happening  👀👀

 
👀 Heard it’s a definite with a few more exciting ones in the fire, as long as my mate who’s been surely right about the ITK cuff links releases is dead on. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

2 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

The last decade where Celtic have won something like 26/30 of the Honours in Scottish Football? Yeah definitely not been an unusual period at all ...

 

Yeah there was this other thing that happened with the OF, though, what was it . . .

 

EDIT: To put it another way, in the previous decade, Celtic reached the CL group stages while still losing the title. In 05-06, when we last mounted our most serious title contention, Celtic had just made the group stages, slipped up that season, then made the knockout rounds the following season.

 

Rangers made the knockout rounds that season while finishing third to us.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Led Tasso

[Mr Elwood P]

5 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Yeah there was this other thing that happened with the OF, though, what was it . . .

Yep. Rangers disappeared. Celtic had a clear run at the UEFA money. Celtic won almost everything. Clear evidence of how important that money is....

[Watt-Zeefuik]

6 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Yep. Rangers disappeared. Celtic had a clear run at the UEFA money. Celtic won almost everything. Clear evidence of how important that money is....

I added an edit to that comment late:

 

 

EDIT: To put it another way, in the previous decade, Celtic reached the CL group stages while still losing the title. In 05-06, when we last mounted our most serious title contention, Celtic had just made the group stages, slipped up that season, then made the knockout rounds the following season.

 

Rangers made the knockout rounds that season while finishing third to us.

 

 

Now you can say, yes, well the Rangers were cheating on their taxes in that time to catch Celtic which just shows how important money is, but nobody is disputing the importance of money. The point is that in the history of the CL era, there's never been a mechanism like the UECL group stages that offered a club like Hearts anything more than a pittance compared to the guaranteed money that the UCL stages offered. Yes, our 3m euros is a lot less than Celtic's 17m or whatever, but that's compared to prior years where it was 15m to 150k for reaching the qualifiers or whatever. And as I said, there's a smallish but still possible chance that our European winnings next season are effectively equal to Rangers because we split the UEL group TV pot. That's never been really truly attainable for a third place team before.

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

I added an edit to that comment late:

 

 

EDIT: To put it another way, in the previous decade, Celtic reached the CL group stages while still losing the title. In 05-06, when we last mounted our most serious title contention, Celtic had just made the group stages, slipped up that season, then made the knockout rounds the following season.

 

Rangers made the knockout rounds that season while finishing third to us.

 

 

Now you can say, yes, well the Rangers were cheating on their taxes in that time to catch Celtic which just shows how important money is, but nobody is disputing the importance of money. The point is that in the history of the CL era, there's never been a mechanism like the UECL group stages that offered a club like Hearts anything more than a pittance compared to the guaranteed money that the UCL stages offered. Yes, our 3m euros is a lot less than Celtic's 17m or whatever, but that's compared to prior years where it was 15m to 150k for reaching the qualifiers or whatever. And as I said, there's a smallish but still possible chance that our European winnings next season are effectively equal to Rangers because we split the UEL group TV pot. That's never been really truly attainable for a third place team before.

I'm pretty sure  that Champions League money this year is circa £40m? We're increasing our revenue by £5m but but Celtic are going to gain an additional £20-30m. Rangers can also qualify for Champions League. Gio's form in Europe makes that a distinction possibility. The clubs who are getting cut adrift are Aberdeen and Hibs. We're only minimising the damage with our own UEFA run ... 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

I'm pretty sure  that Champions League money this year is circa £40m? We're increasing our revenue by £5m but but Celtic are going to gain an additional £20-30m. Rangers can also qualify for Champions League. Gio's form in Europe makes that a distinction possibility. The clubs who are getting cut adrift are Aberdeen and Hibs. We're only minimising the damage with our own UEFA run ... 

 

It's all funny money because there's the TV pool that comes after the guaranteed prize money. Our prize guarantee is around 3m euros, and I think Celtic's is around 17-18m, but their TV pool will be much larger. Ours is larger depending on if we get into the UEL groups, and then that depends on which level Rangers end up in. If they make the CL, they split the TV pool with Celtic, but if we and Rangers both make the EL groups, Celtic get the full TV pool and we split the EL pool with Rangers. And then there's the prize money for victories, and then . . .

 

The real benefit to us comes from putting some distance between ourselves and the rest, and possibly bettering our European position by adding to the coefficient. Yes, us adding to the coefficient also helps the OF, but if we can get it from its current 36 to up around 50, which is fully doable if three teams are achieving success, there's a decent chance Scotland gets access to the top 6, which means third place gets a third CL QR bid, which also means two chances at EL group stages and guaranteed group play, regardless of what happens in scottish cup. And what happens if we happen to manage second every now and again? Cash bonanza!

 

Catching the OF is never going to be easy, but up until now there's been effectively no "toe-holds" for us to get a purchase on that let us climb. And if we never catch the OF, we're now getting European group play on the regular, which is a pretty sweet consolation prize!

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, Led Tasso said:

 

It's all funny money because there's the TV pool that comes after the guaranteed prize money. Our prize guarantee is around 3m euros, and I think Celtic's is around 17-18m, but their TV pool will be much larger. Ours is larger depending on if we get into the UEL groups, and then that depends on which level Rangers end up in. If they make the CL, they split the TV pool with Celtic, but if we and Rangers both make the EL groups, Celtic get the full TV pool and we split the EL pool with Rangers. And then there's the prize money for victories, and then . . .

 

The real benefit to us comes from putting some distance between ourselves and the rest, and possibly bettering our European position by adding to the coefficient. Yes, us adding to the coefficient also helps the OF, but if we can get it from its current 36 to up around 50, which is fully doable if three teams are achieving success, there's a decent chance Scotland gets access to the top 6, which means third place gets a third CL QR bid, which also means two chances at EL group stages and guaranteed group play, regardless of what happens in scottish cup. And what happens if we happen to manage second every now and again? Cash bonanza!

 

Catching the OF is never going to be easy, but up until now there's been effectively no "toe-holds" for us to get a purchase on that let us climb. And if we never catch the OF, we're now getting European group play on the regular, which is a pretty sweet consolation prize!

European games isn't just TV money, it's millions in ticket money too. This is where the gap increases further. Rangers absolutely rip their fans for every penny they can get. Exorbitant tickets and exorbitant kits. We have 30k less seats for these UEFA games and we are likely to get knocked out far earlier. It really is a financial chasm. definitely agree that being at the UEFA party is massively beneficial for Hearts though. Hopefully the extra cash can get us in the position to win one of these tricky one off games at Hampden ....

[FarmerTweedy]

9 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

The point vegas made on fitness is correct but materially irritating.

 

why can’t we be as fit as EPL teams? Watching them out run us in the cup final was gut wrenching (albeit I accept we had a number of players returning from long periods out) but that aside rangers were fitter than any team in the league.

 

really no excuse for it 

As you say, players returning from injury played a part, and so did others playing with injuries that we simply didn't have anyone to replace with.

 

The other thing though, and this is something lots of people don't seem to be able to grasp, is that not everyone has the same physical capacity for fitness.  For many players, it simply doesn't matter how hard they train, or how well, they're simply not physically capable of being as fit, or as strong, as other players. Lung capacity, heart strength, bone structure and much more are all factors and while these can be developed and improved with work, different people can reach different peak levels.  It's a fallacy that there's somehow automatically something wrong with our training methods or our players' attitudes if we get outrun by a top team. 

 

It's just another attribute of players that is a factor in how in-demand they are and what clubs want to sign them. In the same way that we might be able to afford a player that's got a good skill level but is a bit slow, but not be able to afford one with the same skill level and lightning pace too, so have to find a compromise between skill and pace, we might be able to afford someone who has good ability but who doesn't have a high capacity for fitness but not be able to afford someone with the same ability but who is also a superfit athlete.  So we have to compromise between ability level and fitness capability too.  Ideally, we would want to spot players who haven’t shown great fitness but actually do have capacity to get fitter and simply haven’t had the right training regime to achieve it, but that's probably not an easy thing to identify! 

 

Sadly, at the end of the day, the clubs with more money can afford not only the players with better skill, pace, strength, height, intelligence, etc, but also better fitness levels and likely higher fitness capacity. I'm not saying there's definitely nothing at all we could do to improve fitness levels at the club (I couldn't possibly know that without knowing all about our fitness regime and about the whole topic of fitness), but at the same time, the fact that a club with a budget many times the size of ours has a fitter team than we do is not in any way an indication that we're doing anything wrong. 

[FarmerTweedy]

9 hours ago, vegas-voss said:

Aye I don't get that either.I guess part of it is they have just bought a team of absolute athletes and that doesn't come cheap.

That's a very large part of it.

[FarmerTweedy]

6 hours ago, db211833 said:

Totally agree, no matter skill levels or physicality. The one thing players have full control of is being as fit as they possibly can be.

But some can't possibly be as fit as others can. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

1 hour ago, Goodfella said:

 
👀 Heard it’s a definite with a few more exciting ones in the fire, as long as my mate who’s been surely right about the ITK cuff links releases is dead on. 

What’s he said about shankland?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

27 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

But some can't possibly be as fit as others can. 

I think the other thing is that we can't get top players at their peak fitness age, in their mid-to-late 20s. We get prospects in their teens or early 20s, and we get players on the way down in their 30s. If we keep a player in his mid-20s, it means he's peaked.

[JKBMod 13]

Two posters removed for persistent off topic comments despite repeated warnings. If it's not related to Hearts transfer activity then please don't post it.

Thanks.

[cosanostra]

Anyone else get the feeling that Forrest might be an underrated signing and an important player for us. He looks direct, energetic and tenacious. 

Hope he's a good one. 

[Aussie Jambo]

3 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

Anyone else get the feeling that Forrest might be an underrated signing and an important player for us. He looks direct, energetic and tenacious. 

Hope he's a good one. 

Yes. I do. I think he will be one of our savours up front. Underestimated is the key word. His big brothers a good player. So sometimes wee brothers can be better. Let’s hope so. 

[Jambo in Bathgate]

If we get Shankland and Simms it will give us options that we haven’t had for a long time. I also think that Henderson may be a surprise too. We are due to have a Hearts developed striker who makes an impact by scoring goals. 

[Dazo]

2 hours ago, cosanostra said:

Anyone else get the feeling that Forrest might be an underrated signing and an important player for us. He looks direct, energetic and tenacious. 

Hope he's a good one. 

Underated ? On jkb? Never. 😂

 

Its so often the case that meh signings turn out great. 

[Finlay James]

3 hours ago, cosanostra said:

Anyone else get the feeling that Forrest might be an underrated signing and an important player for us. He looks direct, energetic and tenacious. 

Hope he's a good one. 

Agreed

[Braminho]

3 hours ago, cosanostra said:

Anyone else get the feeling that Forrest might be an underrated signing and an important player for us. He looks direct, energetic and tenacious. 

Hope he's a good one. 

Was saying the exact same thing yesterday 

[Baxfee]

Forrest was always going to be one of our better signings. Not flash just does the business - direct and scores. Forrest delivers, Ginnelly doesn’t! 

[gregzy2k7]

Would still like another winger of the same standard If not better than McKay, can you imagine if we potential got an injury to Baz McKay near start of season, we need quality that can come in and cover when he is out suspended etc.

[pettigrewsstylist]

10 hours ago, Rudy T said:

I think we all do but it’s a quandary with Simms if there’s a chance do we hold off on other signings or so we say to him and Everton decide by X date or it’s a non starter🤷‍♂️

RN clearly a fan of getting business done early and having newbies well integrated and familiarised during pre season so club will be thinking much the same. We need to look after No1. Simms may be one we stretch the boat for and carry as addtl expense if option comes up late. Cant see us being anywhere near front of queue in Evertons mind so i think it will be late if at all. That said, player could influence if he wants to come back. Maybe a loan deal till xmas will suit them for Euro exposure.

[vegas-voss]

4 hours ago, cosanostra said:

Anyone else get the feeling that Forrest might be an underrated signing and an important player for us. He looks direct, energetic and tenacious. 

Hope he's a good one. 

Thought he would be a great signing since we were linked to him.Whenever I watched Sportscene he was always a danger for Livingston.Didnt quite get folk turning their nose up at signing him.

[Bob Loblaw]

54 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

Forrest was always going to be one of our better signings. Not flash just does the business - direct and scores. Forrest delivers, Ginnelly doesn’t! 

I think Forrest will do well, but not sure he delivers more than Ginnelly. He scored 2 more goals than Ginnelly last year, but had more appearances and starts. 

 

Easy to dig at Ginnelly but it's not easy for any of our wide players to come in and out and produce. Will be a problem Forrest will have as well as he won't start every week.

[TyphoonJambo]

32 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

I think Forrest will do well, but not sure he delivers more than Ginnelly. He scored 2 more goals than Ginnelly last year, but had more appearances and starts. 

 

Easy to dig at Ginnelly but it's not easy for any of our wide players to come in and out and produce. Will be a problem Forrest will have as well as he won't start every week.

For me, and I realise it was only a friendly, but Gino looked the least interested at yesterday's game. Don't think he went past their RB once. Whilst on the other side, Kingsley and Cochrane were linking up well.

I wouldn't shed a tear if he left. Far too inconsistent. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by TypoonJambo

[TyphoonJambo]

5 hours ago, Aussie Jambo said:

Yes. I do. I think he will be one of our savours up front. Underestimated is the key word. His big brothers a good player. So sometimes wee brothers can be better. Let’s hope so. 

Tasty!!!

[Clark Griswold]

5 hours ago, cosanostra said:

Anyone else get the feeling that Forrest might be an underrated signing and an important player for us. He looks direct, energetic and tenacious. 

Hope he's a good one. 

Yeah I do. But I also was in the Jake Mulraney is underrated camp so shows what I know! 😂

[Rudy T]

57 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

I think Forrest will do well, but not sure he delivers more than Ginnelly. He scored 2 more goals than Ginnelly last year, but had more appearances and starts. 

 

Easy to dig at Ginnelly but it's not easy for any of our wide players to come in and out and produce. Will be a problem Forrest will have as well as he won't start every week.

You don’t get into that Livi team unless your prepared to work hard and have the right attitude, for me that’s the difference with Forrest and Gino. Ability wise Gino might edge it but if he’s not able or willing to put a shift in and fight for his place I fear he’ll be the forgotten man at Hearts this season, I can see Henderson making more appearances than Gino tbh.

[RustyRightPeg]

Just now, Rudy T said:

You don’t get into that Livi team unless your prepared to work hard and have the right attitude, for me that’s the difference with Forrest and Gino. Ability wise Gino might edge it but if he’s not able or willing to put a shift in and fight for his place I fear he’ll be the forgotten man at Hearts this season, I can see Henderson making more appearances than Gino tbh.

Hopefully the extra competition for places brings something extra out of Gino as there’s a real talent there. 
 

Unfortunately, I can’t see it. I commented earlier in the week that he’d been at the back of the running lines etc in training vids and didn’t look that bothered. It’s disappointing to see that it transferred into a match. 
 

A poster, can’t remember who, said Devlin and Cochrane were saying how well he trains on the Q&A, not sure if they’re trying to blow smoke up his arse or what but it certainly doesn’t look it from the snippets we saw. 

[Rick Sanchez]

If it was announced Ginnelly was free to leave I wouldn't be fussed tbh.

 

He's currently Neilson's only game plan away in Glasgow though, so I'd imagine he'll use him in Europe.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

Seems as if Gino just needs to keep his head down and get thinking straight

 

End of last season he was trying too hard, making bad decisions regarding whether to pass, shoot or keep dribbling a bit longer

 

End result being opponents get ball back, no goal, no corner, no penalty, no throw-in, nothing

[TheBigO]

1 hour ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Would still like another winger of the same standard If not better than McKay, can you imagine if we potential got an injury to Baz McKay near start of season, we need quality that can come in and cover when he is out suspended etc.

I mean that would be amazing but we need to be somewhat realistic.  Sure the plan is for Forrest and Grant to be of that standard and we'll see if they are up the grade.  I think we'll sign more forwards and that will be the plan with them too.

 

But the fact is you'll always have your best players and when they're out, they're replaced by guys not quite as good.  What we need to make sure is there's not too much of a drop off, or we have a wee change of shape (ie our spare CF is better than our spare winger, so we go 2 up top).

 

So while you're totally right, I reckon it's harder than it sounds!!  That applies to every team in the world at their own individual level too - Spurs have never had a Kane replacement, Liverpool with VVD etc.

 

Where we may differ at this exact time is we probably haven't maxed out either where our budget will end up in the coming seasons nor what the recruitment team are capable of as they're all pretty new.  So you may get your wish I guess!!!!

[HEARTS FOREVER]

2 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

Seems as if Gino just needs to keep his head down and get thinking straight

 

End of last season he was trying too hard, making bad decisions regarding whether to pass, shoot or keep dribbling a bit longer

 

End result being opponents get ball back, no goal, no corner, no penalty, no throw-in, nothing

Gino has one year left at the club, needs to get the finger out if he wants to be here longer. Big season for him imo. Really hope he steps it up because there’s  defo a player in there.

[TheBigO]

16 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

You don’t get into that Livi team unless your prepared to work hard and have the right attitude, for me that’s the difference with Forrest and Gino. Ability wise Gino might edge it but if he’s not able or willing to put a shift in and fight for his place I fear he’ll be the forgotten man at Hearts this season, I can see Henderson making more appearances than Gino tbh.

Are we now saying Gino is lazy?  I'm not sure that's fair to be honest.

 

He's sometimes not the most intelligent as far as decision making, but I've never seen a lack of effort from the lad.  Couple of games last season he played up top and worked his arse off in particular, one away at Celtic where it was thankless and he kept plugging away especially.

 

I quite like Gino.  Not irreplaceable at all, and if he were go, like most, wish him well and not think much more of it, but certainly happy enough if he stays.

 

I've liked his updates on the friendly but let's not get carried away about a personal opinion from someone watching the first bounce game of the season, in 38c heat, from over a fence (nae offence Typoon - just not wanting people to run too far with your comment!)

[Ricardo Quaresma]

Just now, HEARTS FOREVER said:

Gino has one year left at the club, needs to get the finger out if he wants to be here longer. Big season for him imo. Really hope he steps it up because there’s defo a player in there.

 

There definitely is; it would be really sad to see him leave

 

If he can get everything clicking, he's hard to stop

[TheBigO]

Just now, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

There definitely is; it would be really sad to see him leave

 

If he can get everything clicking, he's hard to stop

That's my thoughts.  Start of last season, I thought he was going to be a big player for us - he also seemed to have bulked up and looked strong as an ox.  Still might come

[franco2209]

1 hour ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

RN clearly a fan of getting business done early and having newbies well integrated and familiarised during pre season so club will be thinking much the same. We need to look after No1. Simms may be one we stretch the boat for and carry as addtl expense if option comes up late. Cant see us being anywhere near front of queue in Evertons mind so i think it will be late if at all. That said, player could influence if he wants to come back. Maybe a loan deal till xmas will suit them for Euro exposure.

At a Push,but may be too big a mast for us.😄

Edited July 1, 2022 by franco2209
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