Russia Invades Ukraine

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, RS86 said:

Haven't read back so unsure if this has already been covered, but Belarus are holding a referendum to amend their constitution so that they can host Russian nuclear weapons.

We host American nuclear weapons. Didn't 

bother with a referendum.

[Victorian]

Right,  time for DEFCON 1 from us.  Wheel out Kerry Katona again.

[Francis Albert]

Ukraine commits to not joining the EU or NATO. The Russian-majority parts of Ukraine get autonomy. Something like that I would guess.

[Lone Striker]

6 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Who expected Poland shaming Germany yesterday to the extent they've completely changed their stance on arms to Ukr and have committed to increased defence spending ? 

Not Vlad, that's for sure.

What terms would Ukr wnat/expect ? Who kows ? Nato membership is gone now anyway given the Russian occupation. What is Vald prepared to inflict , and will it escalate as/if Ukr resistance continues ? He said he doesn't even think Ukr should exist - where does he go from here ? 

 

Will he go down the Grozny route and reduce Kyiv to rubble - given he thinks and said he regards Uhraine as Russia(n) -  that's gonna be a problem back home. He really needs a quick win. 

 

 

Its hard to see how any sustainable settlement can come out of this, given Putin's angry demands and the brave resistance by Ukrainian forces and citizens towards having any Russian presence.

 

Putin - I will stop further military action if you agree to give  full government control of Ukraine to me

 

Zelensky - No.  But I will call off our military and citizen resistance if you agree to remove all your military and stop firing missiles into Ukraine and stop interfering in our democracy.   Oh and by the way,  thank you for  showing us that we don't need to apply to join NATO now in order to defend our country.   

 

Both sides would benefit from stopping further fighting, but is there really any goodwill/bargaining positions for either of them to achieve it ?

[Homme]

Hopefully Zelensky isn't going to the Border for these talks. I wouldn't trust the Belarusian and Russians whatsoever at this moment.

[SectionDJambo]

Putin seems to have thought that the Ukrainian people would just fold as soon as the aggression started. He also seems to have believed that western governments were so tied into Russia that they couldn’t hurt him with meaningful sanctions. He’s actually managed to bring nations closer together, against him, after spending years trying to cause divisions.

He was wrong all the way and now he’s upping his threatening behaviour to suggest he’ll use nuclear weapons if he doesn’t get his way. He’s a pariah to most of the rest of the world now, and there’s no recovery from that.
He had the chance to make Russia a major economic power and entice countries, worldwide, into his fold by showing the financial benefits of being his mate. He’s blown it.

All that remains to be seen is what further damage he is prepared to inflict on the world when he chucks the toys out of the pram.

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

To be fair we've been taking an economic hit for 12 years, firstly from Gideon's austerity, then latterly from 'getting Brexit done' so getting bent over for a good cause will actually feel like a blessed relief. 

Thread title belatedly changed but for some Boris and the evil Tories and of course Brexit remains a focus. 

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

Really can't see point in talks, Putin's word is worth nothing. Man of action that he loves to be seen as he will make any offer impossible to except or just lie, make a decent offer them create a pretext few days later to go back on it.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Homme said:

Hopefully Zelensky isn't going to the Border for these talks. I wouldn't trust the Belarusian and Russians whatsoever at this moment.

I can’t imagine he’d travel personally, just too risky.

 

Also, wouldn’t expect either head of state to be there anyway.

[Victorian]

We pretty much need these guys to show up now.

 

[Cruyff]

Zelenskyy is some man btw. Respect. A great leader.

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, Mac_fae_Gillie said:

Really can't see point in talks, Putin's word is worth nothing. Man of action that he loves to be seen as he will make any offer impossible to except or just lie, make a decent offer them create a pretext few days later to go back on it.

This- Putin's word is worthless, but ultimately it's for Ukraine to decide.

Problem is, Vlad's threatening to destroy the world but  the Ukranians know THEIR world will be destroyed no matter what. Hard to see what Ukraine can get from this that will make them back down. Maybe Vlad needs time for his armies/generals to regroup/rethink and it's all a con. 

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

We pretty much need these guys to show up now.

 

One of my favourite films. 

[Herbert.]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

They're misguided as to the realities of war. I didn't call you out for anything to do with your views on the Russian invasion though, because I have no idea what they are. It's your distinct lack of empathy that is concerning. But let's not get ravelled up in that and take the thread off course. You are what you are.

 

 

Is calling someone out for "crying themselves to sleep" me showing lack of empathy to Ukraine? Or is it me not wanting Britain to get involved in war?

[Victorian]

Celtic have claimed the title on average points if there's a holocaust.  

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Celtic have claimed the title on average points if there's a holocaust.  

There’s preemptive and then there’s preemptive.

”we did it for Covid. It’s only fair we do it for a nuclear holocaust”

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Zelenskyy is some man btw. Respect. A great leader.

There is nothing this man can’t do…

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

Mate, you were having a pop at someone's lack of knowledge, an Irishman nonetheless, and spelled their bloody name wrong!

Mate we're discussing a war in the heart of Europe and you're quibbling over a typo 😂

[NANOJAMBO]

If you're on Twitter, this guy is worth following ...

 

@AndrewPRLevi

 

Seems likely he now fears NATO will take out his armoured columns, to prevent the massive war crime that the assault on Kyiv will be if it goes ahead. He knows he’s losing. He has little left to gamble with, except to make Biden hesitate before doing what’s needed …

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Mate we're discussing a war in the heart of Europe and you're quibbling over a typo 😂

You were slagging his knowledge of Sinn Fein, couldn't even get their name right

[chuck berrys hairline]

Zelenskyy - Gigachad

[NANOJAMBO]

5 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

There is nothing this man can’t do…

 

 

Imagine being a nuclear superpower and getting yer arse kicked by a guy in pink satin & rhinestones. 

[Cruyff]

8 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

There is nothing this man can’t do…

 

 

Legend. 

 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

Also, a reminder with what Zelenskyy had to deal with earlier in his incumbency…

 

 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

6 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

If you're on Twitter, this guy is worth following ...

 

@AndrewPRLevi

 

Seems likely he now fears NATO will take out his armoured columns, to prevent the massive war crime that the assault on Kyiv will be if it goes ahead. He knows he’s losing. He has little left to gamble with, except to make Biden hesitate before doing what’s needed …

Thanks, have followed although the idea that Putin fears direct NATO action still seems like a stretch to me.

[Sharpie]

Sometimes it seems on these discussions that people suggest lobbing nukes like you would hand grenades. The way my understanding of nukes is that for example two landing on precise targets could wipe out Edinburgh and all therein. If the big bang didn't get you the after blast radiation would.

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

Also, a reminder with what Zelenskyy had to deal with earlier in his incumbency…

 

 

It's what happens when your leaderhip was in hock to the Russian regime. 

Some of the stuff going on right now with the GOP/Fox is unreal. It's actually happening in the America of McCarthyism and Carlson/Trump/Trailer Queen/Gaetz are all cheerleadong Putin.  

 

Not a huge amount different over here either. Just different players. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

18 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Putin seems to have thought that the Ukrainian people would just fold as soon as the aggression started. He also seems to have believed that western governments were so tied into Russia that they couldn’t hurt him with meaningful sanctions. He’s actually managed to bring nations closer together, against him, after spending years trying to cause divisions.

He was wrong all the way and now he’s upping his threatening behaviour to suggest he’ll use nuclear weapons if he doesn’t get his way. He’s a pariah to most of the rest of the world now, and there’s no recovery from that.
He had the chance to make Russia a major economic power and entice countries, worldwide, into his fold by showing the financial benefits of being his mate. He’s blown it.

All that remains to be seen is what further damage he is prepared to inflict on the world when he chucks the toys out of the pram.

 

There was a guy from the Russia Programme at Chatham House who was saying similar, that Putin had the chance to consolidate his legacy by lifting Russia up from the gutter and turning it into an economic powerhouse, but he's blown all of that now, by doing what nearly all dictators do, when they are never happy with what they have, they always want more.

 

Putin has turned Russia into a pariah state, which will take decades to fix long after he's gone, it will take the World a very long time and will take a massive effort from Russia for the World to trust them ever again.

[Sharpie]

2 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

Thanks, have followed although the idea that Putin fears direct NATO action still seems like a stretch to me.

 

I watched a program on Putin last night. He is classified as being the leader of the massive Russian Mafia. He is suspected in the destruction of an apartment building when in his initial power journey. No suspects have ever been named in that incident. He wiggled his way into power with connections to the leadership, he is considered nothing more than a gangster. When the threat of retaliation against Putin related actions really get imminent he will be removed, but a lot of damage can be done before then.

[redjambo]

8 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

Thanks, have followed although the idea that Putin fears direct NATO action still seems like a stretch to me.

 

Yup, me too. It's a fairly solid red line.

[The Mighty Thor]

33 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Thread title belatedly changed but for some Boris and the evil Tories and of course Brexit remains a focus. 

It's relevant. 

They're stinking of Russian money and influence. Reeking of it.  

Their slow response and general inaction speaks volumes.

They could of course clear it all up. Release the Russia Report unredacted and print a full list of who donated what to whom and when. 

They won't. 

So you can ram your snide comments up your fundament. 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

Sometimes it seems on these discussions that people suggest lobbing nukes like you would hand grenades. The way my understanding of nukes is that for example two landing on precise targets could wipe out Edinburgh and all therein. If the big bang didn't get you the after blast radiation would.

Yep, not a pretty thought. While Putin’s nuclear posturing is almost certainly just that - posturing - there is always a tiny but non-zero risk that errors or misunderstandings could lead to a catastrophe.

[highlandjambo3]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Sometimes you just have to beat violence with violence . Talking to the deranged will get you nowhere, other than giving them time to regroup and push again.

This is what happened with the Serbs in Bosnia….in the beginning we spent 2 years as a UN peace keeping force getting nowhere…..Serbs ran us ragged as we had no mandate to kick their arses and they knew it.  We then changed the whole mandate from UN to NATO…..so gloves were off but, the Serbs were so used to pissing over us they didn’t really comprehend what the change to NATO would mean for them.  Well, they learned the hard way as we proceeded to kick the shit out of them en mass for a couple of weeks.

[NANOJAMBO]

7 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

I watched a program on Putin last night. He is classified as being the leader of the massive Russian Mafia. He is suspected in the destruction of an apartment building when in his initial power journey. No suspects have ever been named in that incident. He wiggled his way into power with connections to the leadership, he is considered nothing more than a gangster. When the threat of retaliation against Putin related actions really get imminent he will be removed, but a lot of damage can be done before then.

And British intelligence thought he was one of the good guys during his power grab, back in the day.  

[Cruyff]

Putin isnt going to nuke anyone but i do worry that he is feeling the pressure and knows that there will a coup to remove him if he doesn't win this war soon. That could mean he starts using some serious bombs to force a surrender in Kyiv but so far it seems that the Russians have tried to limit civilian casualties. 

[NANOJAMBO]

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It's relevant. 

They're stinking of Russian money and influence. Reeking of it.  

Their slow response and general inaction speaks volumes.

They could of course clear it all up. Release the Russia Report unredacted and print a full list of who donated what to whom and when. 

They won't. 

So you can ram your snide comments up your fundament. 

Clearly FA missed Dan Hannan's disgraceful pro-Putin comments last night which are so bad he's deleted his tweets . Another one (along with  Farage) who's desperately  rowing back from the halcyon days of 2016. 

 

FA - you KNOW who Hannan is , dontcha ? 

[Tazio]

4 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Putin isnt going to nuke anyone but i do worry that he is feeling the pressure and knows that there will a coup to remove him if he doesn't win this war soon. That could mean he starts using some serious bombs to force a surrender in Kyiv but so far it seems that the Russians have tried to limit civilian casualties. 

I think he’ll realise the whole venture isn’t going to work but before they withdraw he’ll make one grand gesture to prove their power. So some poor city is going to get battered the day before a peace agreement is made so he can save face.

[Gizmo]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Sometimes you just have to beat violence with violence. Talking to the deranged will get you nowhere, other than giving them time to regroup and push again.

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

The west may as well get rid of their nukes, seems Russia can do what they want.

 

😬

[Francis Albert]

15 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It's relevant. 

They're stinking of Russian money and influence. Reeking of it.  

Their slow response and general inaction speaks volumes.

They could of course clear it all up. Release the Russia Report unredacted and print a full list of who donated what to whom and when. 

They won't. 

So you can ram your snide comments up your fundament. 

The UK did more than most in response and indeed even before the invasion. Some arms supplies (denied over flight of Germany) and leading proponents of kicking Russia out of Swift while Germany Italy and Hungary dragged their feet.The EU dragged its feet and even Donald Tusk has called the EU response shameful.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

BBC reporting that talks are due to begin shortly, if they haven't already started.

[The Mighty Thor]

 

Just now, Francis Albert said:

The UK did more than most in response and indeed even before the invasion. Some arms supplies (denied over flight of Germany) and leading proponents of kicking Russia out of Swift while Germany Italy and Hungary dragged their feet.The EU dragged its feet and even Donald Tusk has called the EU response shameful.

You not read the first bit, the relevant bit to the Tories being absolutely up to their baws in filthy Russian money? The bit you started with?

It was 3 individuals already sanctioned and 4 banks nobody had heard of that Johnson led with. Gave the serious players a few days of a window to move assets around. 

[NANOJAMBO]

 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

Let’s hope the psycho from North Korea doesn’t think it’s a race to be the first one in  nearly 80 years to use one.

Edited February 27, 2022 by HeartsandonlyHearts

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

 

 

Biden is actually doing the opposite and dismissing them from the military.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

17 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

This is what happened with the Serbs in Bosnia….in the beginning we spent 2 years as a UN peace keeping force getting nowhere…..Serbs ran us ragged as we had no mandate to kick their arses and they knew it.  We then changed the whole mandate from UN to NATO…..so gloves were off but, the Serbs were so used to pissing over us they didn’t really comprehend what the change to NATO would mean for them.  Well, they learned the hard way as we proceeded to kick the shit out of them en mass for a couple of weeks.

 

Always remember Col. Bob Stewart at the Serb check point, when the Serbs refused to move, Col. Bob gave them 10 minutes (or something like that) to move & GTF or he'd get the tanks to run over them, then he ordered every British gun to aim at the Serbs.

The Serbs shat themselves big time, was probably the first time they'd come face to face with real soldiers.

 

[Victorian]

In one way,  Putin has actually achieved something to his advantage,  whether or not it was an active objective.  That's the humanitarian crisis.  He's already set in train a very large and hazardous humanitarian crisis.  It has become a useful negotiating chip for him because the Ukranians and their NATO allies will need to proceed on the basis of protecting displaced people.  

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

 

These guy's will probably get hounded with calls about the recent road traffic accident they were in.

[Footballfirst]

 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

So, doesn’t look like the Russian negotiating team is full of heavy hitters…

 

 

 

[redjambo]

6 minutes ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

Let’s hope the psycho from North Korea doesn’t think it’s a race to be the first one in  nearly 80 years to use one.

 

He's probably relieved right now.