Russia Invades Ukraine

[ArcticJambo]

42 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

did you really expect anything else to happen?

no!

[SectionDJambo]

These are obviously very dangerous times. Putin's plan appears to have gone astray, in that the Russian forces have not swiftly overwhelmed the Ukrainian forces, as he would have thought. He is being, pretty much, isolated by the rest of the world, and you would imagine that it's just a matter of time before it is suggested in western political circles that he be accused of having committed war crimes against unarmed civilians. His mate in Belarus, the modern day Benito, has also allowed Putin to murder Ukrainian civilians from his territory.

The sporting world, which Russia, and the Soviets before them, have showed off their elite physical and mental strength to, in the same way Hitler tried in 1936, to show the Russian way of life to be superior, look like almost completely refusing to allow them to compete or host any events for the foreseeable future.

Although sanctions will also hurt the rest of the world, they will over time hurt Russia even more. 

He could find himself with no alternative, in his head, for personal survival other than using nuclear weapons. I hope, as seemed to be the case during Trump's presidency, that there are military people in Russia who will stop him from creating an irreversible catastrophe for the world.

[SE16 3LN]

26 minutes ago, Boab said:

But that's the thing here. Russia invoked Article 51 of the UN Charter as a reason to go in. We can all say that a self defence line is bollocks, and it probably is, but the fact remains they think they are defending the proto states inside Ukraine.
As for Poland, not a chance in hell as that would involve NATO directly.
No way this will go further than Ukraine.

I think you're wrong Boab. When Guerilla war is being launched from inside Poland, Putin will go in. As I say, the only chance of avoiding UK/NATO military involvement is for the Russians to stop Putin. That's a hope not an expectation.

[Cade]

Putin's not attacking any NATO nation.

Even as unhinged as he is right now, he's not suicidal.

 

Moldova needs to be mobilising.

[Japan Jambo]

On 24/02/2022 at 10:41, Francis Albert said:

Would we be better off with Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn? 

He might welcome extension of his range of vacation options. He and Diane Abbot had the choice of all of Eastern Europe in the good old days of Soviet occupation.

 

sorry made me laugh...

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Japan Jambo

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Putin's not attacking any NATO nation.

Even as unhinged as he is right now, he's not suicidal.

 

Moldova needs to be mobilising.

 

Particularly as there are Russian armed forces already stationed within its borders.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_Group_of_Russian_Forces

[Shooter McGavin]

Like others have said, seems very unlikely Russia would step onto NATO territory, and for us to get involved before that’s happened would be madness.

 

It would appear that heavy sanctions, that could cripple the Russian economy, and the hope that Ukraine keep fending them off, would offer the best chance of a resolution, Russia standing down effectively.

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Insightful comment, informed opinion and respectful debate, aye?

Damn, is there another Covid thread I haven't seen?

[redjambo]

Just now, Shooter McGavin said:

Like others have said, seems very unlikely Russia would step onto NATO territory, and for us to get involved before that’s happened would be madness.

 

It would appear that heavy sanctions, that could cripple the Russian economy, and the hope that Ukraine keep fending them off, would offer the best chance of a resolution, Russia standing down effectively.

 

Perhaps, but they won't retreat from Ukraine without having grabbed more territory than that covering the two republics that they propped up before they came in, and then the West will probably leave them alone with that gained territory just to keep the peace. Effectively they may well achieve what they set out to do.

[132goals1958]

3 hours ago, jonesy said:

 

Archive pictures from Da Nang.

 

 

Along with a military coo

 

[Costanza]

"Mr Medvedev also condemned Russia's suspension from the Council of Europe, but boasted that it offered Moscow an opportunity to restore the death penalty to Russian law."

 

Medvedev was supposed to be the more pro Western less authoritarian one....

[Victorian]

The complete mis-match in a pound-for-pound war between NATO and Russia actually makes the risk of rapid escalation to nuclear weapons much more likely.  Putin,  amongst his other areas of insanity,  is desperate for the world to view Russia as at least an equal to the west.  His forces would not be a match in a 'conventional' battle and it would undoubtedly be incompatible with his ego.

 

 

[theshed]

For the clued up people unlike me but why can’t someone just take putin out? 

 

[Victorian]

Just now, jonesy said:

There won't be a nuclear weapon fired by either Russia or NATO over this.

 

Not over this.  But it's a different calculus if a NATO member is attacked.  It gets a bit dangerous then.

[milky_26]

Just now, theshed said:

For the clued up people unlike me but why can’t someone just take putin out? 

 

1) trying to get to him would be very difficult, he no doubt has multiple doubles and lots of security, look at castro the USA tried multiple times to try and kill him but were never successful

2) there would be a power vacuum that multiple people would try and take over, there is no guarantees that the new man would be better, probably worse as they would need to show power and retalliation for an assassination

3)we should not take out leaders of other countries if we dont like them/what they are doing, that would make us as bad as they are

4)it would probably escalate the conflict significantly

[Japan Jambo]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Because he's busy invading Ukraine. He doesn't have time to dip into Moscow's dating scene.

 

👏🤣

[theshed]

5 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

1) trying to get to him would be very difficult, he no doubt has multiple doubles and lots of security, look at castro the USA tried multiple times to try and kill him but were never successful

2) there would be a power vacuum that multiple people would try and take over, there is no guarantees that the new man would be better, probably worse as they would need to show power and retalliation for an assassination

3)we should not take out leaders of other countries if we dont like them/what they are doing, that would make us as bad as they are

4)it would probably escalate the conflict significantly

 

Cheers 👍

[theshed]

5 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Because he's busy invading Ukraine. He doesn't have time to dip into Moscow's dating scene.

 

I asked for that 😂😂

[Cade]

32 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Particularly as there are Russian armed forces already stationed within its borders.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_Group_of_Russian_Forces

 

Aye, that's why I reckon Putin is after the entire south coast of Ukraine, to link up with Transnistria.

[Boab]

36 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

I think you're wrong Boab. When Guerilla war is being launched from inside Poland, Putin will go in. As I say, the only chance of avoiding UK/NATO military involvement is for the Russians to stop Putin. That's a hope not an expectation.

Sorry but geographically that doesn't make any sense unless he wants the whole country. I don't think that is his play here. I think the Dnieper River will be where draws a line. Essentially cutting the country in half. The Western half of Ukraine, where Poland is, will not be occupied long term IMO for the very reason of not incurring the wrath of NATO.

All conjecture of course but I think it's pretty likely he'll want to come to the table with Eastern Ukraine in his pocket.

[chuck berrys hairline]

🤣

[Victorian]

During the past in the Soviet times there was always a tangible presence of Kremlin hierarchal figures and Communist Party senior officials and the like who would represent a checks and balances brake on the leader,  as well as being the machinery to remove and replace the leader.  It seems unlikely that Putin hasn't dismantled all of that.  This Russian leader will be more difficult to displace than Soviet leaders of the past.  People are talking about Palace Coups and the like but it might be bloody difficult.  

 

Perhaps the modern day equivalent of the Palace Coup could be an insurgency of the oligarchy.  But it's likely to be much less coherent,  articulated and non-violent.

[dobmisterdobster]

5 minutes ago, chuck berrys hairline said:

🤣

 

Zoinks! 😂

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Russian cargo ship seized by French Police in the Channel.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-crisis-russian-cargo-ship-seized-in-channel-by-french-police-12551980

[Jambo-Jimbo]

France & Italy seem to be coming onboard with chucking Russia out of SWIFT, Germany still refusing seemingly.

[westbow]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-ukraine-russia-biden-b2022421.html?amp

Not followed this thread so it may have already been brought up.

Trump believed US forces had entered the fray. 😂

[3fingersreid]

Reading the reports of the Ukrainian resistance from both the military and more importantly the civilian population , this could make the Chechnya (sp) bloodbath the Russians found themselves in seem like a party if he takes the whole of Ukraine or the bulk of it . 
 

when the Russian soldier body count starts piling up the Russian public will ( hopefully) make their feelings clear and demand change 

[chuck berrys hairline]

🇸🇰 Slovakia will provide Ukraine with military equipment worth almost 11 million euros, according to the Ministry of Defense.

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

You really are a piece of work. 

 

I've made it quite clear that I believe the UK and NATO should be taking military action to reduce the number of deaths that will result from Putins actions, actions which are a breach of International law. This should include a "no fly zone" and military action on the ground to protect Ukranian Civilians and the democratic govt.  of Ukraine.

 

What side are you on Buddy?

For NATO to take the step of enforcing a no-fly zone, they also have to be prepared to shoot down any unauthorised aircraft entering the zone.   Since NATO isn't a combatant (yet), shooting down a Russian plane would most likely lead to immediate war.

 

NATO countries don't want to provoke a  war.   No-one really knows how far an angry Putin would go though - maybe he'd even order some of his  planes into a no-fly zone in the hope that one would get shot down.   He's unhinged and dangerous.

 

 

[Herbert.]

2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

So you want to sit back and let the Russians slaughter Ukranian people and remove their democratically elected govt. Explain how you can justify that?

 

Putin made it quite clear last week that he would restore the Russian empire and made particular reference to parts of Poland. Understand, the policy of sacrificing the Ukranian people, which you seem to be arguing for, will not stop Putin from doing what he's doing. Learn the lessons of History, get off your knees, and support the only action that has a hope of stopping the destruction of Europe. You know, it will be necessary, if not now, next week or next year, Putin will invade a NATO member. Tell me why you think that's not true.

 

 

Putin knows he can't take on NATO, If he was going to push for Poland or another nato member he would have had to do it the day he went into the ukraine. Nato has time to bolster defences along the Russian border now and get anti air and anti tank weapons to countries that need them.

[Cade]

Various NATO and EU nations are banning all Russian aircraft from their skies.

 

Russia is responding in kind.

 

Sanctions are one thing, not being able to import or export goods is another. Blockade the arseholes.

[Lord Montpelier]

8 minutes ago, Cade said:

Various NATO and EU nations are banning all Russian aircraft from their skies.

 

Russia is responding in kind.

 

Sanctions are one thing, not being able to import or export goods is another. Blockade the arseholes.

Agree. I'd be stopping all physical, financial, and goods movement in and out of Russia. Plus switching off all Western provided Internet services . Screw them , make them squirm 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Lord Montpelier

[Jeff]

Belarus need absolutely battered as well

[JudyJudyJudy]

Imagine if things go even more pear shaped ? We are at brink of WW3 and we send the only peace envoy who might be of any influence and he brokers a peace deal ! Stand forward 

 

 

[Jeff]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Imagine if things go even more pear shaped ? We are at brink of WW3 and we send the only peace envoy who might be of any influence and he brokers a peace deal ! Stand forward 

 

 

 

Russia will invade Mexico instead

[Masonic]

these left wing nutjobs that have been installed all over the shop after society as a whole went soft is costing people their lives minute by minute

 

nobody cares about social media clout shoutouts they need weapons n bodies to fight the scum russians

[redjambo]

Just now, Masonic said:

these left wing nutjobs that have been installed all over the shop after society as a whole went soft is costing people their lives minute by minute

 

nobody cares about social media clout shoutouts they need weapons n bodies to fight the scum russians

 

[Cade]

[The Real Maroonblood]

10 minutes ago, Masonic said:

these left wing nutjobs that have been installed all over the shop after society as a whole went soft is costing people their lives minute by minute

 

nobody cares about social media clout shoutouts they need weapons n bodies to fight the scum russians

[Boab]

14 minutes ago, Masonic said:

these left wing nutjobs that have been installed all over the shop after society as a whole went soft is costing people their lives minute by minute

 

nobody cares about social media clout shoutouts they need weapons n bodies to fight the scum russians

Yip.

That commie Johnson needs stopped.

Don't even get me started on that Trot Rees Mogg !

😡

[Sooperstar]

Turkey has banned the passage of Russian warships through the Black Sea and is providing humanitarian aid and military support to Ukraine. Per tweet from Zelensky.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Sooperstar

[Nucky Thompson]

25 minutes ago, Masonic said:

these left wing nutjobs that have been installed all over the shop after society as a whole went soft is costing people their lives minute by minute

 

nobody cares about social media clout shoutouts they need weapons n bodies to fight the scum russians

[Lone Striker]

12 minutes ago, Cade said:

Various NATO and EU nations are banning all Russian aircraft from their skies.

 

Russia is responding in kind.

 

Sanctions are one thing, not being able to import or export goods is another. Blockade the arseholes.

Yep, although most western countries would take a significant hit too.   Apparently a significant percentage of the world's wheat and agricultural fertilisers  come from Russia.  Time for western governments & economists to work out how to adjust. 

[westbow]

6 minutes ago, Boab said:

Yip.

That commie Johnson needs stopped.

Don't even get me started on that Trot Rees Mogg !

😡

Mustn’t forget Erdogan of Turkey and Orban of Hungary. Couple of left wing peaceniks.

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, Lone Striker said:

Yep, although most western countries would take a significant hit too.   Apparently a significant percentage of the world's wheat and agricultural fertilisers  come from Russia.  Time for western governments & economists to work out how to adjust. 

I’m not sure of the Russian production figures but it’s big numbers from Ukraine. I read it was something like 15% of the worlds grain and 18% of the world’s corn. 

[Sooperstar]

6 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Turkey has banned the passage of Russian warships through the Black Sea and is providing humanitarian aid and military support to Ukraine. Per tweet from Zelensky.

Posting the tweet as there are some people who think it is being misinterpreted and that Zelensky is merely saying how important it is that the Black Sea is closed, not that Turkey have actually agreed to it.

 

 

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Turkey has banned the passage of Russian warships through the Black Sea and is providing humanitarian aid and military support to Ukraine. Per tweet from Zelensky.

 

Have you got a link? Turkey only very recently said that they weren't able to do this (I assume you mean through the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles, not the Black Sea in general).

[NANOJAMBO]

 

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, chuck berrys hairline said:

🤣

Actually true. 

[Sooperstar]

15 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Posting the tweet as there are some people who think it is being misinterpreted and that Zelensky is merely saying how important it is that the Black Sea is closed, not that Turkey have actually agreed to it.

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Have you got a link? Turkey only very recently said that they weren't able to do this (I assume you mean through the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles, not the Black Sea in general).

See quoted post above yours.