Russia Invades Ukraine

[NANOJAMBO]

3 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

So is this the sum total of Brandon's "sanctions"?

 

 

Meantime Russian roubles will continue flooding into the Tory party and p r icks like Farage & Arron Banks (who brought the UK brexit thanks to yet more Russian roubles) are telling us how Russia are the good guys. 

Interesting reading at the moment on the US view of the splintering of the west's  approach to Russia some years ago.

In a nutshell, we need Russian gas and Ukraine is screwed. Totally.  Putin wants the old style USSR installed on his borders and has been doing it for years, piece by piece. 

[Footballfirst]

UEFA getting in on the act?

 

 

[doctor jambo]

Russia will move on the other areas it wants and failed to take from Ukraine .

what a mess

[NANOJAMBO]

3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

UEFA getting in on the act?

 

 

Hopefully UEFA will do the right thing.

Russia should be treated like the pariah state it is and all sporting/cultural links severed.  

 

[SectionDJambo]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

UEFA getting in on the act?

 

 

Russians teams, both club and international, should be barred from any UEFA competitions until circumstances arise where the Russian government have crawled back under their rock. The same should happen for all other sports which have players who are representing Russia, or are playing under the Russian flag.

The trouble, of course, is that previous unjustified invasions by western powers will enable the Russians to muddy the water. They've already brought up the WMD and Iraq to discredit western intelligence.

The difference is that the people of the western countries can hold their politicians to account for their actions. Putin is untouchable in Russia as his murders and imprisonment of dissenting people has shown. The Russian people need to be aware that the rest of the world deplores what Putin is doing in their name. Sport, unfortunately, is one of the easiest and obvious targets. It should be joined by every other conceivable means of financial hurt as well though. War should be the last resort.

[dobmisterdobster]

17 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Russia will move on the other areas it wants and failed to take from Ukraine .

what a mess

 

They will carve up Ukraine like the did with Georgia. They won't take Kyiv.

[Pans Jambo]

32 minutes ago, Greenbank2 said:

Make no mistake, the only thing that these "sanctions" will mean for the likes of us is a further whammy to our cost of living. Oil price hitting $100 per barrel, grain futures soaring, Nordstream 2 will be scrapped and therefore increased competition for gas.  Meanwhile energy companies get richer, arms dealers and their industry rub their hands together and Oligarchs continue to build superyachts. It is the people of Europe who will suffer while the the posh boy elites continue to play their game of Risk.

Nobody in the media wants to talk about that....because the media is also controlled by the very people you describe in your post.

[NANOJAMBO]

Lest we forget. When people get tired of being told Russia funded brexit :  this is the influence it buys - and Farage is talking the same shite. 

 

@Arron_banks

 

Russia shouldn’t invade anyone but Ukraine isn’t a single unified country, in the same way Spain has its Basque problem. The EU stoked the fire burning in Eastern Ukraine on the Russia borders by pushing for membership & Nato expansion.

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

The difference is that the people of the western countries can hold their politicians to account for their actions.

Really? How is Boris and his muppets still in power then?

[NANOJAMBO]

6 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Russians teams, both club and international, should be barred from any UEFA competitions until circumstances arise where the Russian government have crawled back under their rock. The same should happen for all other sports which have players who are representing Russia, or are playing under the Russian flag.

The trouble, of course, is that previous unjustified invasions by western powers will enable the Russians to muddy the water. They've already brought up the WMD and Iraq to discredit western intelligence.

The difference is that the people of the western countries can hold their politicians to account for their actions. Putin is untouchable in Russia as his murders and imprisonment of dissenting people has shown. The Russian people need to be aware that the rest of the world deplores what Putin is doing in their name. Sport, unfortunately, is one of the easiest and obvious targets. It should be joined by every other conceivable means of financial hurt as well though. War should be the last resort.

100%.

Sporting and cultural sanctions were used against S Africa.

[Des Lynam]

13 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Hopefully UEFA will do the right thing.

Russia should be treated like the pariah state it is and all sporting/cultural links severed.  

 

I wouldn’t go as far as calling them a pariah state but I agree. Putin and the leadership won’t give a **** about UEFA. However the country is far more liberal now and information isn’t controlled anymore and these military actions could backfire on Putin. The young generation have moved on from romanticising about the USSR and are more westernised. 
 

I think today’s actions in recognising Donetsk and Luhansk is to create a buffer zone between Russia and NATO. Fighting in these regions has been going on since 2014 and the international community has done nothing about it. 

[SectionDJambo]

11 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Really? How is Boris and his muppets still in power then?

It’s in our hands.

They’re not actually due, or I believe allowed, to hold a General Election yet.

How he got in, or how he might get re-elected is for another thread. 

[SectionDJambo]

One thing that I can’t understand about Putin recognising those 2 areas of Ukraine as independent states.

How does that give him the belief, or self justification, for Russia being the peace keepers, and moving troops into those regions? Shouldn’t that be agreed at the UN?

Let’s say Mexico had a lot of American nationals living on it’s side of the Rio Grande. If those people claimed that land as theirs, because some old Western movie told them it was so, would that give the US a mandate to declare that region of Mexico as an independent state, and send in American troops to keep the peace, without asking anyone?

Where does nonsense like that end?

 

[Des Lynam]

 

15 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

 

Putin is untouchable in Russia as his murders and imprisonment of dissenting people has shown. The Russian people need to be aware that the rest of the world deplores what Putin is doing in their name.

 

They are fully aware. But like you or I it’s very difficult to control your own country’s geopolitical wants and needs. Putin is favoured in Russia because before he came to power the country was on its arse and whether we like or want to admit he got it off it’s knees. I have Russian friends and they’ll acknowledge things aren’t perfect but will always point out you’ll never understand unless you lived there at the time and saw how challenging life was. I would love to see real democratic change in Russia. 

 

If we’re going to call out others then we have to be willing to have the light shone in the other direction. Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria are a shameful history that many international countries will never be able to fully erase. 
 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

52 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Meantime Russian roubles will continue flooding into the Tory party and p r icks like Farage & Arron Banks (who brought the UK brexit thanks to yet more Russian roubles) are telling us how Russia are the good guys. 

Interesting reading at the moment on the US view of the splintering of the west's  approach to Russia some years ago.

In a nutshell, we need Russian gas and Ukraine is screwed. Totally.  Putin wants the old style USSR installed on his borders and has been doing it for years, piece by piece. 

 

Only 5% of UK gas imports are from Russia so no we don't need their gas. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

56 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The first meaningful response comes from Germany

 

 

 

Have they actually shut down the pipeline or are they just bluster saying they might if Putin doesn't behave. I think the latter tbh. Germany are utterly dependent on Russian gas and Putin knows it. 

[dobmisterdobster]

6 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

 

They are fully aware. But like you or I it’s very difficult to control your own country’s geopolitical wants and needs. Putin is favoured in Russia because before he came to power the country was on its arse and whether we like or want to admit he got it off it’s knees. I have Russian friends and they’ll acknowledge things aren’t perfect but will always point out you’ll never understand unless you lived there at the time and saw how challenging life was. I would love to see real democratic change in Russia. 

 

If we’re going to call out others then we have to be willing to have the light shone in the other direction. Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria are a shameful history that many international countries will never be able to fully erase. 
 

 

 

Russia was never really a democracy in the first place so I'm not surprised.

 

Funny you mention Syria as the situation there is just as much Russia's fault as it is ours.

[doctor jambo]

10 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Only 5% of UK gas imports are from Russia so no we don't need their gas. 

We need to start fracking and pay off our national debt 

[Seymour M Hersh]

37 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Really? How is Boris and his muppets still in power then?

 

There is not a General Election for a feyyears yet then they can be held to account. Or do you just think they should be overthrown at the whim of a few noisy people on social media?

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

We need to start fracking and pay off our national debt 

 

I would not disagree with that but whether it would do as you say I've no idea. It would help make us more self sufficient re fuel though. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Seymour M Hersh

[Boab]

22 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

One thing that I can’t understand about Putin recognising those 2 areas of Ukraine as independent states.

How does that give him the belief, or self justification, for Russia being the peace keepers, and moving troops into those regions? Shouldn’t that be agreed at the UN?

Let’s say Mexico had a lot of American nationals living on it’s side of the Rio Grande. If those people claimed that land as theirs, because some old Western movie told them it was so, would that give the US a mandate to declare that region of Mexico as an independent state, and send in American troops to keep the peace, without asking anyone?

Where does nonsense like that end?

 

The fluidity of the Mexican/US border has been fought over for a very long time.

I don't think an old western movie had any bearing on the turbulent past in that region.

🤣

[Des Lynam]

6 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Russia was never really a democracy in the first place so I'm not surprised.

 

Funny you mention Syria as the situation there is just as much Russia's fault as it is ours.

It’s only real period at behaving in a democratic fashion was after the collapse in 1991 till about 1999. Sadly the old paranoia of the west and renewed vigour in nationalism stunted any real change. 
 

 

[Footballfirst]

22 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Have they actually shut down the pipeline or are they just bluster saying they might if Putin doesn't behave. I think the latter tbh. Germany are utterly dependent on Russian gas and Putin knows it. 

The pipeline was only completed in September last year, but has not been commissioned as yet,

[Des Lynam]

23 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Have they actually shut down the pipeline or are they just bluster saying they might if Putin doesn't behave. I think the latter tbh. Germany are utterly dependent on Russian gas and Putin knows it. 

No they’ve basically put it on hold. There’s not a chance they’ll turn their back on this. 

[Savage Vince]

1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said:

The trouble, of course, is that previous unjustified invasions by western powers will enable the Russians to muddy the water. They've already brought up the WMD and Iraq to discredit western intelligence.

The difference is that the people of the western countries can hold their politicians to account for their actions. 

 

 

Thats a very wooly way to say how something that may or may not lead to significant death and conflict is worse than something that absolutely did lead to the death, rape, torture and homelessness of hundreds of thousands of civilians. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Savage Vince

[NANOJAMBO]

37 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Only 5% of UK gas imports are from Russia so no we don't need their gas. 

My post specifically mentioned "the west". 

[Pans Jambo]

29 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

There is not a General Election for a feyyears yet then they can be held to account. Or do you just think they should be overthrown at the whim of a few noisy people on social media?

[kingantti1874]

43 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Only 5% of UK gas imports are from Russia so no we don't need their gas. 

but we buy gas from the open market. Other countries who do rely on Russian gas will now look to the same markets 

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

My post specifically mentioned "the west". 

 

What sort of figures are the reliance on Russian gas for the west?

 

[kingantti1874]

46 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

 

They are fully aware. But like you or I it’s very difficult to control your own country’s geopolitical wants and needs. Putin is favoured in Russia because before he came to power the country was on its arse and whether we like or want to admit he got it off it’s knees. I have Russian friends and they’ll acknowledge things aren’t perfect but will always point out you’ll never understand unless you lived there at the time and saw how challenging life was. I would love to see real democratic change in Russia. 

 

If we’re going to call out others then we have to be willing to have the light shone in the other direction. Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria are a shameful history that many international countries will never be able to fully erase. 
 

 

they probably need to understand that this action will send them back to that. If he goes the whole hog and all the way to Kiev the sanctions will be unprecedented I think. 
 

I think the sanctions may be severe enough to push Putin into wider action. Very dangerous situation 
 

 

[Pans Jambo]

In the Guardian on-line:

 

Johnson says UK imposing sanctions on five Russian banks, and three wealthy individuals

Well done Boris, that'll teach those 3 Ruskies what's what!

[Ray Gin]

"Peacekeeping"

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60468237

[NANOJAMBO]

@mikegalsworthy

·

4m

Germany cancels a colossal gas pipeline from Russia. Boris Johnson sanctions just 3 oligarchs… who the US has sanctioned since 2018. Johnson’s claim that he’s leading actions against Russia are laughable. He’s dragging his feet and being dragged along.

 

 

[Cruyff]

If Nato stood up to Putin, he'd of shat the bed. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

@mikegalsworthy

·

4m

Germany cancels a colossal gas pipeline from Russia. Boris Johnson sanctions just 3 oligarchs… who the US has sanctioned since 2018. Johnson’s claim that he’s leading actions against Russia are laughable. He’s dragging his feet and being dragged along.

 

 

He couldn't run a bath.

[Cruyff]

Moving Russian troops into the contested area is just Putin trying to suck Ukraines best forces towards the East and away from Kiev. So when he does fully invade he can cut them off from the North and South.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

We need to start fracking and pay off our national debt 

Exactly 100%, what's the point in paying extra premiums & importing fuel from several countries when we have enough reserves for the next 20 years plus some when it's right under our nose of our own 

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, Boab said:

The fluidity of the Mexican/US border has been fought over for a very long time.

I don't think an old western movie had any bearing on the turbulent past in that region.

🤣

Point taken.

But the amount of trouble that gets caused around the world from what people have read in an old book or been watching on tv or social media is frightening. Any excuse, it seems, will do.

[Cade]

"Yeah, well I'm cancelling a game of tennis that one of your pals won in a Tory party donor raffle, so take THAT!"

 

 

Putin's betting on the leaders of the West being so far in his pocket that they won't do anything meaningful.

And he's probably right.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Cade

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

There is not a General Election for a feyyears yet then they can be held to account. Or do you just think they should be overthrown at the whim of a few noisy people on social media?

Empty vessels make most noise which sums up perfectly our prolific know it alls  ! 

[Costanza]

59 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Moving Russian troops into the contested area is just Putin trying to suck Ukraines best forces towards the East and away from Kiev. So when he does fully invade he can cut them off from the North and South.

I'd been looking for some links for good analysis on Russia's intentions and this guy seems pretty on the ball.

This article here seems to backup what you are saying and that the endgame is regime change or a buffer zone between Russia and NATO; either way this is going to be pretty bloody

 

Russia’s Shock and Awe | Foreign Affairs

 

Michael Kofman (@KofmanMichael) / Twitter

 

 

 

 

[Boab]

35 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Point taken.

But the amount of trouble that gets caused around the world from what people have read in an old book or been watching on tv or social media is frightening. Any excuse, it seems, will do.

Looking at the Red Tops headlines was depressing this morning.
Large swathes of the public are moronic fools. Who reads, or even worse, believes this tripe ?

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

There is not a General Election for a feyyears yet then they can be held to account. Or do you just think they should be overthrown at the whim of a few noisy people on social media?

3 GE in about 4 years, when they're supposed to do a full 5 year term. Yet Scotland has had 1 Indyref in 315.years. if Boris is sacked there'll be another GE, where Scotland gets another piece of filth we didn't vote for .

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

We need to start fracking and pay off our national debt 

Do we. Frack off.

[Craig_]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

In the Guardian on-line:

 

Johnson says UK imposing sanctions on five Russian banks, and three wealthy individuals

Well done Boris, that'll teach those 3 Ruskies what's what!

 

Presumably the three who didn't donate to the Tory party...

[Jeff]

2 minutes ago, Craig_ said:

 

Presumably the three who didn't donate to the Tory party...

 

Not far wrong

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Craig_ said:

 

Presumably the three who didn't donate to the Tory party...

Lol. Guaranteed that's the truth of the matter.

[XB52]

It's great the west being up in arms about a country annexing parts of another country. Pity they are quite happy to ignore, or fully support, the zionist entity of Israel doing the same 

[Des Lynam]

23 minutes ago, Costanza said:

I'd been looking for some links for good analysis on Russia's intentions and this guy seems pretty on the ball.

This article here seems to backup what you are saying and that the endgame is regime change or a buffer zone between Russia and NATO; either way this is going to be pretty bloody

 

Russia’s Shock and Awe | Foreign Affairs

 

Michael Kofman (@KofmanMichael) / Twitter

 

 

 

 

The buffer zone is the endgame. We might also be witnessing an attempt to change the world rules based order as Russia and China no longer want to play by them. 

[Des Lynam]

3 minutes ago, XB52 said:

It's great the west being up in arms about a country annexing parts of another country. Pity they are quite happy to ignore, or fully support, the zionist entity of Israel doing the same