Russia Invades Ukraine

[NANOJAMBO]

3 hours ago, Libertarian said:

14,000 dead in the Donbass suggests to me that there is already a civil war 

That's a non sequitur. 

[NANOJAMBO]

4 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

 The Ukrainian government have "embraced the West" far too quickly. They should not be members of NATO, well at least not in the foreseeable future, and this should have been made clear from the outset. However, there should be a door open for EU membership. Also, you make it sound as if the US actually caused the overthrow of the president, which I'm sure is your intention. They offered moral encouragement but this was certainly insufficient to cause the "revolution" or the success of it. It sounds lovely to say that they backed it, but what was there to finance? It was a people's revolution won by folk in the streets, not armies fighting each other. However, the US and the EU should most definitely have kept their noses completely out of the Euromaidan protests, imo. The Ukrainians would have been better to wait for future elections and elect a President who would more accurately reflect their wishes, using democratic processes. In the end, they moved far too fast. They were lucky that it didn't turn into all-out civil war.

 

The last bit I highlighted is the height of irony given the Russian interference in UK politics, the millions of Russian money flowing into the Tory party (who have refused to implement anything that will highlight the massive flow of Russian money into the London money laundering markets). And the Russian money that poured into the "Leave" campaign during brexit.

 

And let's not forget the Russian money that compromised Trump to the extent he advocated & supported polices that were contrary to US national interests and in some cases were overtly pro Russian. 

An unbelieveable post , even by Kickback standards. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by NANOJAMBO

[NANOJAMBO]

On 13/02/2022 at 20:46, Libertarian said:

Imagine Mexico or Canada were inviting Russian or Chinese military into threaten the USA. Do you think that the Americans would stand idly by and allow a threat like this to their national security?

You sound like Lee Harvey Oswald. 

 

 

[Libertarian]

5 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You sound like Lee Harvey 

Did you ever see the film Dr Strangelove? You remind me of one of the characters 

[redjambo]

5 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

The last bit I highlighted is the height of irony given the Russian interference in UK politics, the millions of Russian money flowing into the Tory party (who have refused to implement anything that will highlight the massive flow of Russian money into the London money laundering markets). And the Russian money that poured into the "Leave" campaign during brexit.

 

And let's not forget the Russian money that compromised Trump to the extent he advocated & supported polices that were contrary to US national interests and in some cases were overtly pro Russian. 

An unbelieveable post , even by Kickback standards.

 

 

Whataboutery at its finest. The Russians interfere in the domestic politics of other countries so the UK and the US should too. Lovely.

[Mister T]

6 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

America saved Europe twice,  in WWI & WWII - some people need a history lesson.

And America's might is a consequence of WWII - prior to that the US was literally nothing militarily. 

Not sure about WW1 as the tide had started to turn against Germany before the US entered the war, hence their last throw of the dice in the spring of 1918 before US troops arrived in France.

There's no doubting the USA's economic strength was the key factor in WW2. However it's always been a bugbear for me that they got their hands on a range of technology developed by the UK (eg radar, jet engines) for nowt while making the UK fully repay war loans with interest. The last repayment being in 2006. 

As we're seeing over at lochend, American's like to make sure there's something in it for them. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Mister T

[redjambo]

8 minutes ago, Mister T said:

As we're seeing over at lochend, American's like to make sure there's something in it for them. 

 

Indeed. It irks me that the US were in strong position after the fall of communism, for example, to encourage countries to properly adopt human rights and environmental policies, or indeed anything to make this world a better place, but just went about enriching themselves further. The rise of China means that they're too late now to make a real difference.

[Footballfirst]

It's increasingly looking like Russia is backing off by moving some troops away from the Ukrainian border.

 

Sky quote from the Russian Foreign Ministry: "February 15 2022 will go down in history as the day that Western war propaganda failed. Humiliated and destroyed without a single shot fired"

Edited February 15, 2022 by Footballfirst

[SwindonJambo]

2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

It's increasingly looking like Russia is backing off by moving some troops away from the Ukrainian border.

 

Sky quote from the Russian Foreign Ministry: "February 15 2022 will go down in history as the day that Western war propaganda failed. Humiliated and destroyed without a single shot fired"

And the markets have responded accordingly. I wouldn't relax just yet. Mr Putin isn't exactly trustworthy. It could easily be a bluff to give the Ukrainians a false sense of security. 

 

 

[coconut doug]

9 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

America saved Europe twice,  in WWI & WWII - some people need a history lesson.

And America's might is a consequence of WWII - prior to that the US was literally nothing militarily. 

 

Really. They would not have been in ww1 had the Germans not sunk the Lusitania and the Lusitania would not have been sunk had Churchill not withdrawn the naval protection and allowed German submarines access to the Bristol channel.

 

It took Pearl harbour to bring them into WW2. Public opinion was so much against entering the war that an incident of this type was needed. They had many prominent politicians advocating for the Nazis and huge pro Nazi demonstrations marching down 5th avenue. They were happy to stand by and watch the powers of the day damage each other for more than 2 years. Yes they did swing the war in our favour but they profited massively from it.

 

  Immediately before the war the USA was planning a war against the UK and the empire primarily to steal the empire. Plans were drawn up and preparations started. The evidence remains. Hitler warned the UK of American intentions at the time. Notions that they are our friends who would come to our aid at the rop of a hat are not backed up by reality.

 

The usa shafted us over Suez, they were initially working with the Argentinians over the Falklands invasion, giving the junta the nod to invade in the first place. They left us all exposed in Afghanistan earlier this year.

 

Prior to WW2 the usa was building up their military capability with a view to creating their own empire. Their military strength was not a consequence of WW2 it was the result of a deliberate policy to arm and conquer with their most ambitious campaign against us in plan red. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2039453/How-America-planned-destroy-BRITAIN-1930-bombing-raids-chemical-weapons.html We even had an agreement with the japanese in the far east to work cooperatively to thwart the USA's imperial ambitions. In the early 1930's the US Navy was of a very similar size to that of the RN i.e significantly bigger than anybody elses. They didn't militarise during and after  the war as a response to the needs of the free world and a desire to be the world's policeman and a force for good. They also got huge paryments from the UK after both world wars to allow them to achieve it. The reason they didn't have a large army was because they didn't have hostile neighbours.

 

[John Findlay]

19 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

Who are the Commies? You do understand that Russia is not a communist country and hasn't been one for over 30 years, don't you? 

 

 

Funny how one guy keeps winning their elections and those in opposition to this one guy, just seem to disappear into the nether.

Only difference between communism and nazism/fascism is how they are spelled. Both political ideologies that are despicable as each other.

[coconut doug]

Just now, John Findlay said:

Funny how one guy keeps winning their elections and those in opposition to this one guy, just seem to disappear into the nether.

Only difference between communism and nazism/fascism is how they are spelled. Both political ideologies that are despicable as each other.

 

So you are saying the Commies are the Nazis. If not, can you tell me where the Commies are?

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, coconut doug said:

 

So you are saying the Commies are the Nazis. If not, can you tell me where the Commies are?

Really? Yes Commies and Nazis are one and the same to me. Only others tag one far left and one far right, they both behave the same. For me there was no difference between Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin, both responsible for the killings of Millions of human beings.

For me Putin is no different to Hitler or Stalin. He is a dictator of their ilk. He may not be responsible for Millions of deaths........yet, but given the chance he will be.

[Lord Montpelier]

10 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Really? Yes Commies and Nazis are one and the same to me. Only others tag one far left and one far right, they both behave the same. For me there was no difference between Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin, both responsible for the killings of Millions of human beings.

For me Putin is no different to Hitler or Stalin. He is a dictator of their ilk. He may not be responsible for Millions of deaths........yet, but given the chance he will be.

Very true

 

I view the political landscape as a circle not a straight line. Go far enough to the left or right you meet back again on that circle with behaviours and actions that are very similar

[Boab]

Oh well, back to party gate headlines for the media !

[John Findlay]

6 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Very true

 

I view the political landscape as a circle not a straight line. Go far enough to the left or right you meet back again on that circle with behaviours and actions that are very similar

Agreed.

[JackLadd]

12 minutes ago, Boab said:

Oh well, back to party gate headlines for the media !

 

More second and third helpings of cake on the way. Wee Popeye mooth Laura Kuenssbird to remind us how evil BJ is 

Edited February 15, 2022 by JackLadd

[Boab]

Just now, JackLadd said:

 

More second and third helpings of cake on the way. Wee Popeye mooth Laura Kuenssbird to to tell us how evil BJ is 

The media don't need to tell me he's a prick. It's pretty evident !

[coconut doug]

23 hours ago, Libertarian said:

Just saw on the BBC cuddly Ukrainians marching in solidarity to oppose Russia. The demonstrators were waving Ukrainian flags as well as lots of red and black flags. The BBC didn't point out that the red and black flag is the Ukrainian Nazi flag. These are our allies.

 

I saw this too but cant find it now. Is it the one with the blue banner saying Ukraine will resist or something similar? If so the banner and the flag behind it show the insignia of "Democratic Axe" a fascist group who are a political party and private militia who are alleged to receive weapons from the Ukrainian government. The BBC missed this too. I wonder why?

 

  Their spokesman Yuri Hudymenko in an interview with the New York times a few days ago said “if anybody from the Ukrainian government attempts to sign such a document (a peace deal), a million people will take to the streets and that government will cease being the government.” I noticed that a Ukrainian diplomat suggested that the heat could be taken out of the situation if Ukraine relaxed its demand to join Nato. Within a few hours this position was reversed. The Russians also said that such an agreement would significantly ease tension. We almost had a solution by mistake but Boris was right in there to tell us that Ukraine’s right to join Nato was non-negotiable, even temporarily.

 

The red and black flags to represent the blood and soil of the nation are not flown by fascists we are told so it must be alright that they are our allies.

[il Duce McTarkin]

'Mon the Ivans.

 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

Really. They would not have been in ww1 had the Germans not sunk the Lusitania and the Lusitania would not have been sunk had Churchill not withdrawn the naval protection and allowed German submarines access to the Bristol channel.

 

It took Pearl harbour to bring them into WW2. Public opinion was so much against entering the war that an incident of this type was needed. They had many prominent politicians advocating for the Nazis and huge pro Nazi demonstrations marching down 5th avenue. They were happy to stand by and watch the powers of the day damage each other for more than 2 years. Yes they did swing the war in our favour but they profited massively from it.

 

  Immediately before the war the USA was planning a war against the UK and the empire primarily to steal the empire. Plans were drawn up and preparations started. The evidence remains. Hitler warned the UK of American intentions at the time. Notions that they are our friends who would come to our aid at the rop of a hat are not backed up by reality.

 

The usa shafted us over Suez, they were initially working with the Argentinians over the Falklands invasion, giving the junta the nod to invade in the first place. They left us all exposed in Afghanistan earlier this year.

 

Prior to WW2 the usa was building up their military capability with a view to creating their own empire. Their military strength was not a consequence of WW2 it was the result of a deliberate policy to arm and conquer with their most ambitious campaign against us in plan red. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2039453/How-America-planned-destroy-BRITAIN-1930-bombing-raids-chemical-weapons.html We even had an agreement with the japanese in the far east to work cooperatively to thwart the USA's imperial ambitions. In the early 1930's the US Navy was of a very similar size to that of the RN i.e significantly bigger than anybody elses. They didn't militarise during and after  the war as a response to the needs of the free world and a desire to be the world's policeman and a force for good. They also got huge paryments from the UK after both world wars to allow them to achieve it. The reason they didn't have a large army was because they didn't have hostile neighbours.

 

The reasons (or not) for their entry don't change the simple facts : they saved Europe twice.

Their military might does indeed stem directly from their massive involvement in WWII prior to which they barely had an army worthy of the name.

 

I have no idea why you have posted the amount of inconsequential history  you have and I'm not getting side tracked into a debate about it.

 

Some of the "Russia good/ America-Ukraine bad" stuff on here is embarrassing. 

 

 

 

[Jeffros Furios]

JambosBotback

[westbow]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

Really. They would not have been in ww1 had the Germans not sunk the Lusitania and the Lusitania would not have been sunk had Churchill not withdrawn the naval protection and allowed German submarines access to the Bristol channel.

 

Hi Doug. The USA entered WW1 due to the resumption of unrestricted sinking of US shipping. The Lusitania was sunk nearly two years before the US joined the war. It may have set the tone for the US attitude towards Germany but it was not a direct cause.  Similar to the Zimmerman telegraphs.
 

The Germans took a gamble by reintroducing unrestricted submarine warfare, they knew the US would react but they thought the UK would have been starved into submission first. 
 

 

[Debut 4]

3 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

It's increasingly looking like Russia is backing off by moving some troops away from the Ukrainian border.

 

Sky quote from the Russian Foreign Ministry: "February 15 2022 will go down in history as the day that Western war propaganda failed. Humiliated and destroyed without a single shot fired"

Or maybe Russia didn’t expect the response from NATO thinking they’d waltz into the Ukraine without any outcry?  Maybe they are getting apprehensive seeing the support rallying around Ukraine?

 

Sounds like comments from a bully who’s not had their own way.  

 

 

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

5 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Whataboutery at its finest. The Russians interfere in the domestic politics of other countries so the UK and the US should too. Lovely.

 

You're telling Ukraine what's good for it while asserting US interference. In the meantime the Russians are doing the very things you accuse the US/EU of - some of which have had (and in the case of brexit) continue to have,  serious  effects on our democracy & economy.

Unlike you , I'm not telling anyone what  they "should" do and I certainly don't ignore that reality is rarely as simple & one sided as you paint.  

 

 

[SwindonJambo]

18 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

JambosBotback

 

Perhaps even JambosRTBotback 😉

[JackLadd]

1 hour ago, Boab said:

The media don't need to tell me he's a prick. It's pretty evident !

 

Same prick who stumped up 10bn for a third of the Scottish work force to stay home for 18 months? 🤔

[Boab]

55 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Same prick who stumped up 10bn for a third of the Scottish work force to stay home for 18 months? 🤔

Yip. Same prick.

👍

[JackLadd]

3 minutes ago, Boab said:

Yip. Same prick.

👍

 

 

Circa 800k Scots should be very grateful to that prick. 👍

[Boab]

Just now, JackLadd said:

 

 

Circa 800k Scots should be very grateful to that prick. 👍

🤣

[Boab]

At least you acknowledge he is a prick

[westbow]

2 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Very true

 

I view the political landscape as a circle not a straight line. Go far enough to the left or right you meet back again on that circle with behaviours and actions that are very similar

Good post. How I’ve always seen things too. Zealots usually have a lot in common- tell them that though and they burst a gasket. Which is a good indicator of their extremism.

 

The further they go the more unbendingly dogmatic they get. They may have different ideologies but when it comes down to it, their world vision turns into a nightmare for the rest of the population.

[il Duce McTarkin]

The whole thing is a diversion.

While Putin feints and the 'west' parries, the nameless convene, and deals are struck in the shadows.

[Libertarian]

7 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

I saw this too but cant find it now. Is it the one with the blue banner saying Ukraine will resist or something similar? If so the banner and the flag behind it show the insignia of "Democratic Axe" a fascist group who are a political party and private militia who are alleged to receive weapons from the Ukrainian government. The BBC missed this too. I wonder why?

 

  Their spokesman Yuri Hudymenko in an interview with the New York times a few days ago said “if anybody from the Ukrainian government attempts to sign such a document (a peace deal), a million people will take to the streets and that government will cease being the government.” I noticed that a Ukrainian diplomat suggested that the heat could be taken out of the situation if Ukraine relaxed its demand to join Nato. Within a few hours this position was reversed. The Russians also said that such an agreement would significantly ease tension. We almost had a solution by mistake but Boris was right in there to tell us that Ukraine’s right to join Nato was non-negotiable, even temporarily.

 

The red and black flags to represent the blood and soil of the nation are not flown by fascists we are told so it must be alright that they are our allies.

You are absolutely spot on with this. We could be facing a major European war because the Ukrainian President (a former comedian: how apt) is too weak to stand up to the Nazi's in western Ukraine and these fascists are being encouraged by a PM who is a clown and an American President who appears to be senile. 

[SwindonJambo]

Meanwhile, the traded price of natural gas has sunk to a 5 month low. Putin won't stand for that so look forward to him stirring the shit tomorrow. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxwdwz5d8gxt/natural-gas

 

A collapse in the price of oil and gas would be good news, because it would take the wind right out his sails. And a few other nasty dictators around the World. They make bog all else of any use, apart from Vodka. 

[Libertarian]

3 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Meanwhile, the traded price of natural gas has sunk to a 5 month low. Putin won't stand for that so look forward to him stirring the shit tomorrow. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxwdwz5d8gxt/natural-gas

 

A collapse in the price of oil and gas would be good news, because it would take the wind right out his sails. And a few other nasty dictators around the World. They make bog all else of any use, apart from Vodka. 

Russian debt to GDP is 18 pc, the 6th lowest in the world and falling.  Russia has cleaned up the banking system and has a well run floating currency.The Russian economy is doing pretty well. The last time I looked UK debt was over 100 pc to GDP. If there is a war it's the western economies which are much more fragile.

[Homme]

1 hour ago, Libertarian said:

Russian debt to GDP is 18 pc, the 6th lowest in the world and falling.  Russia has cleaned up the banking system and has a well run floating currency.The Russian economy is doing pretty well. The last time I looked UK debt was over 100 pc to GDP. If there is a war it's the western economies which are much more fragile.

 

 

Aye ok.

[Lone Striker]

One of the many things I don't understand is why the UK government seems to turn a blind eye to dodgy Russian companies buying up assets in the UK in "normal " times  (highly probable money laundering activity) -  and then only wake up when they're looking for ways to impose financial sanctions on Russia at  crisis time (like Ukraine).

 

As a random  guess though, significant donations to the Conservative Party from wealthy Russians running those dodgy companies may have something to do with it.  

 

Democracy and dictatorship seem to come at similar costs.  Its usually ordinary citizens  living modest lives who end up paying for it.    Maybe the Illuminati  conspiracy theories aren't so wacky after all.   

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Jesus Christ! I suppose poisoning people in Salisbury didn't happen either or poisoning people in London for that matter as well. Putin on horseback emulating King Billy!

[Boab]

8 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

One of the many things I don't understand is why the UK government seems to turn a blind eye to dodgy Russian companies buying up assets in the UK in "normal " times  (highly probable money laundering activity) -  and then only wake up when they're looking for ways to impose financial sanctions on Russia at  crisis time (like Ukraine).

 

As a random  guess though, significant donations to the Conservative Party from wealthy Russians running those dodgy companies may have something to do with it.  

 

Democracy and dictatorship seem to come at similar costs.  Its usually ordinary citizens  living modest lives who end up paying for it.    Maybe the Illuminati  conspiracy theories aren't so wacky after all.   

 

 

Your second paragraph answers the first, mate.

[Bindy Badgy]

https://newsthump.com/2022/02/15/russia-pulls-back-from-ukraine-to-avoid-further-visits-from-liz-truss/

Quote

 

Moscow has ordered the withdrawal of its troops from the Ukrainian border in an attempt to avoid any more diplomatic visits from Liz Truss.

 

There are early signs that Russia is pulling back some of its forces from the Ukrainian border. But what has triggered this apparent withdrawal?

 
“We just can’t take any more visits from that witless woman,” explained Russian Foreign Minister Simonov Williams in reference to the UK Foreign Secretary.

 

“Things started badly when she got off the plane in a rubber Liz Truss costume. She ripped it off and said, ‘Look, I’m a Russian doll!’ to her own obvious amusement.

 

“Sporting a cossack style fur hat which she’d purchased on Amazon, she then refused to walk normally, instead of squatting down and performing what she referred to as a ‘Russian dance’ down the street.

 

“This was of course the Hopak, a traditional Ukrainian folk dance, and not something likely to diffuse regional tensions.

 

“During the diplomatic meeting itself – something which appeared to be an inconvenience on her city break itinerary – Ms Truss kept asking why this crane was particularly important to us and couldn’t we just build with another one. After all, she’d seen loads on the drive from the airport.

 

“When I said that this was not the time for bad jokes, she just stared at me blankly before asking if she could go inside that ‘funny building that looks like a load of hot air balloons.’

“She left promising to see us soon if the crane situation had not been resolved.

 

“So we’re pulling back. Thermonuclear war would be bad, but the return of Liz Truss is the very last thing we want.”

 

 

[coconut doug]

16 hours ago, Libertarian said:

You are absolutely spot on with this. We could be facing a major European war because the Ukrainian President (a former comedian: how apt) is too weak to stand up to the Nazi's in western Ukraine and these fascists are being encouraged by a PM who is a clown and an American President who appears to be senile. 

 

I think that's a serious risk. We have seen the Ukrainians being fired up by Biden and Johnson claiming that the Russians are planning to invade with even Zelensky demanding to see the evidence. The actions of US/UK have deliberately heightened tensions and they are continuing in the same vein by telling us the Russians have not withdrawn troops from their own territory as if the deployment of Russian troops within Russia is anything they can bargain with. And now we are getting increased sanctions for Russia "ready to go " should Russia invade. It seems there's all sorts of Russian linked corruption in shell companies and property ownership but this terrible corruption will only cease if Russia invades Ukraine. If Russia doesn't invade then presumably it's corruption as normal. Anyway the intel reports have the invasion marked down for today so we wont have long to wait.

[ri Alban]

On 15/02/2022 at 13:50, JackLadd said:

 

Same prick who stumped up 10bn for a third of the Scottish work force to stay home for 18 months? 🤔

He borrowed money and everyone in the UK were bribed with said borrowed money to stay home. 

But I forget, no one works up here and pay no tax,  so why then would he need to stump up £10b. 

 

 

Pity we couldn't borrow, maybe folk would have been paid a bit better.

[ri Alban]

On 15/02/2022 at 01:32, NANOJAMBO said:

America saved Europe twice,  in WWI & WWII - some people need a history lesson.

And America's might is a consequence of WWII - prior to that the US was literally nothing militarily. 

I think you'll find Russia saved Europe in WW2.

[Libertarian]

5 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

I think that's a serious risk. We have seen the Ukrainians being fired up by Biden and Johnson claiming that the Russians are planning to invade with even Zelensky demanding to see the evidence. The actions of US/UK have deliberately heightened tensions and they are continuing in the same vein by telling us the Russians have not withdrawn troops from their own territory as if the deployment of Russian troops within Russia is anything they can bargain with. And now we are getting increased sanctions for Russia "ready to go " should Russia invade. It seems there's all sorts of Russian linked corruption in shell companies and property ownership but this terrible corruption will only cease if Russia invades Ukraine. If Russia doesn't invade then presumably it's corruption as normal. Anyway the intel reports have the invasion marked down for today so we wont have long to wait.

Russia is not going to invade Ukraine. What the Russians have done is to basically make it crystal clear to the west that Ukraine will not be allowed to join NATO, will Ukraine be allowed to join the EU. Therefore Ukraine, which has lost 30% of its population since independence, has nowhere to go. The Ukrainian economy is a total disaster and the Ukrainian political leadership is largely to blame by alienating Russia. The political leadership in Ukraine have to have the guts to take on the Nazi's of western Ukraine in order to allow the country to become a neutral buffer state between the west and Russia. 

[Jeffros Furios]

Russian scum 

[henryheart]

9 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

Russia is not going to invade Ukraine. What the Russians have done is to basically make it crystal clear to the west that Ukraine will not be allowed to join NATO, will Ukraine be allowed to join the EU. Therefore Ukraine, which has lost 30% of its population since independence, has nowhere to go. The Ukrainian economy is a total disaster and the Ukrainian political leadership is largely to blame by alienating Russia. The political leadership in Ukraine have to have the guts to take on the Nazi's of western Ukraine in order to allow the country to become a neutral buffer state between the west and Russia. 

 

Exactly my thoughts. This is simply posturing and Russia putting down a marker for Putin to use as a negotiating tool in the future. There is absolutely no appetite amongst the general population in Russia for war and if Putin had been minded to invade he would simply have done it without warning. I hope that I've guessed this right!    

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

I think you'll find Russia saved Europe in WW2.

I wonder if the sailors on the Russian convoys think this?

[NANOJAMBO]

2 hours ago, Libertarian said:

Russia is not going to invade Ukraine. What the Russians have done is to basically make it crystal clear to the west that Ukraine will not be allowed to join NATO, will Ukraine be allowed to join the EU. Therefore Ukraine, which has lost 30% of its population since independence, has nowhere to go. The Ukrainian economy is a total disaster and the Ukrainian political leadership is largely to blame by alienating Russia. The political leadership in Ukraine have to have the guts to take on the Nazi's of western Ukraine in order to allow the country to become a neutral buffer state between the west and Russia. 

 

Victim blaming. You can't choose your own future because, if Russia doesn't like it,  it will destroy you (without  actually invading, so there's that) and it will be your own fault. 

Now imagine the outrage worldwide if the USA pulled that stunt in Central or South America today.. 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by NANOJAMBO

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

3 hours ago, Libertarian said:

Russia is not going to invade Ukraine. What the Russians have done is to basically make it crystal clear to the west that Ukraine will not be allowed to join NATO, will Ukraine be allowed to join the EU. Therefore Ukraine, which has lost 30% of its population since independence, has nowhere to go. The Ukrainian economy is a total disaster and the Ukrainian political leadership is largely to blame by alienating Russia. The political leadership in Ukraine have to have the guts to take on the Nazi's of western Ukraine in order to allow the country to become a neutral buffer state between the west and Russia. 

I’ll make this simple for you. Russia is a country run by *****, full of ***** and which needs bombed to the ****ing ground.