Inflation

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

We've been importing too much food for too long, we've lost the ability it seems to eat seasonal produce, we want whatever we want whenever we want it, this will have to change.

 

 

This. 100x times over. People need to re-scope what they think are needs or wants.

[Dawnrazor]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

A lot of people did think that Brexit would be beneficial and the uplands would require sunglasses. Removing both your workforce pool and largest market at the same time is sheer lunacy. 

 

The fact that we cannot get the stuff out the fields but would rather import it from all over the globe is modern Britain in a nutshell. 

 

Prices go up, night follows day and bears do indeed jobby in the forest. 

But how did we get to the stage of needing the amount of foreign labour to do the jobs that used to get done before?

[Cade]

On the subject of farmland:

1/3 of the available arable land is used to keep animals.

1/3 of the available arable land is used to grow crops to feed these animals.

1/3 of the available arable land is used to grow food for human consumption.

That's part of the problem. Animals also produce huge amounts of waste and consume vast amounts of fresh water (which will be the next big commodity to become scarce)

Per acre, crops provide far more calories than animal pasture does.

Reduce meat production, plant more crops.

 

And on the subject of housing, the UK already has the smallest living spaces in Europe.

And it's getting smaller as properties are split into several flats.

Only about 2% of the land of the UK is currently built on.

There's plenty room.

Developers just choose to build in the cheapest places (like on flood plains) and avoid the more challenging engineering of building where bedrock is close to the surface and other such places.

Build them cheap, build them small, flog them for as much as you can.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

But how did we get to the stage of needing the amount of foreign labour to do the jobs that used to get done before?

A steadily declining workforce (population) and an indigenous population that surprisingly won't pick tatties or wipe pensioners arses for £4 an hour. 

 

This was all well known before our economic hara-kiri in June 2016. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

21 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I only have them for my frozen daiquiris 

🍹🍸👍

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, Cade said:

 

That's part of the problem. Animals also produce huge amounts of waste and consume vast amounts of fresh water (which will be the next big commodity to become scarce)

Just as an aside, the amount of water lost to leaks etc every day is around 3 billion litres.

 

Every day.

 

 

[joondalupjambo]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

We've been importing too much food for too long, we've lost the ability it seems to eat seasonal produce, we want whatever we want whenever we want it, this will have to change.

Like others do not necessarily disagree however tastes have changed both with overseas travel and a diverse population across the UK.  Seasonal UK produce probably won't satisfy what everyone now all eats regardless of how good the sentiment and how sensible it appears for many.  We will always be importing something to fulfill some of the consumers needs and wants.  Change is just too hard for many unfortunately.

[periodictabledancer]

2 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

I'm not sure about fruit but much of the veg is picked mechanically, obviously staff are needed but nothing like years gone bye, but aye, agricultural has suffered through  brexit, much more can be done, targeting agri' sub's to UK needs rather that othe EU countries should've been done better, I honestly thought brexit would've been a huge benefit to uk agricultural.

In what way do you think Brexit would benefit UK farmers - because they didn't think so (when asked by their own NFU).

In fact the NFU ignored what farmers told them and publicly stated "under no circumstances" would the NFU take a position on brexit 🤷‍♂️🤦

 

So what do you see that the NFU and UK farmers missed ? 

[periodictabledancer]

5 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Some further information on GDP & Inflation from the BoE's own forecasts

 

 

As someone who lived thro wacky pay claims of the 70s and super soaraway inflation, I want someone to explain how real inflation that means a current 20/25% reduction in my income caused by rampant food/fuel/energy prices can be cured by taking more money out of the pockets of workers who have not in any way caused the current problems , which are already known to be climbing even higher given projected price hikes.

Utter madness. 

[The Mighty Thor]

8 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

As someone who lived thro wacky pay claims of the 70s and super soaraway inflation, I want someone to explain how real inflation that means a current 20/25% reduction in my income caused by rampant food/fuel/energy prices can be cured by taking more money out of the pockets of workers who have not in any way caused the current problems , which are already known to be climbing even higher given projected price hikes.

Utter madness. 

I'm watching Sky where you've got Dominic Raab and Kwasi Kwarteng tie each other in knots on the economy. 

 

My hot take?

 

They haven't got a ****ing scooby what they're doing.

[Dazo]

9 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

As someone who lived thro wacky pay claims of the 70s and super soaraway inflation, I want someone to explain how real inflation that means a current 20/25% reduction in my income caused by rampant food/fuel/energy prices can be cured by taking more money out of the pockets of workers who have not in any way caused the current problems , which are already known to be climbing even higher given projected price hikes.

Utter madness. 

Bank of England coming across as a one trick pony. Inflation isn’t being caused by people chucking money about so their spending doesn’t need curbed. Maybe too simplistic but I agree it seems like maddness. I think Truss will make things worse. 

[Victorian]

5 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

She already has.

 

They'll be in the pot with lefty lawyers and judges as enemies of the state. 

 

Just realised this is true.  Truss,  Blabbermooth and assorted other plastic right wing berserkers are indeed going on the attack against the BoE.

 

"Fairytale forecasting"

"We'll review the remit of the BoE".

"It should be less independent"

 

"All the board members tend to vote the same way... there should be more diversity". 

 

This is China / Russia / NK stuff.

 

 

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Bank of England coming across as a one trick pony. Inflation isn’t being caused by people chucking money about so their spending doesn’t need curbed. Maybe too simplistic but I agree it seems like maddness. I think Truss will make things worse. 

 

The governer said so himself.  Most inflation is beyond the reach of domestic monetary decision making.  But there is additional domestic derived inflation.  That is being addressed with the interest rate.  

 

These people sort of know what they're doing like.

[The Mighty Thor]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Just realised this is true.  Truss,  Blabbermooth and assorted other plastic right wing berserkers are indeed going on the attack against the BoE.

 

"Fairytale forecasting"

"We'll review the remit of the BoE".

"It should be less independent"

 

"All the board members tend to vote the same way... there should be more diversity". 

 

This is China / Russia / NK stuff.

 

 

Blair gave the B of E independence on monetary policy in 1997 for good reason, to keep that decision making out of the hands of morons like Thick Lizzy

[Victorian]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Blair gave the B of E independence on monetary policy in 1997 for good reason, to keep that decision making out of the hands of morons like Thick Lizzy

 

Might as well let wee Nadine set monetary policy.  Get it over with.

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

The governer said so himself.  Most inflation is beyond the reach of domestic monetary decision making.  But there is additional domestic derived inflation.  That is being addressed with the interest rate.  

 

These people sort of know what they're doing like.

Of course they know what they are doing, loads of people do and don’t always agree as those making the decisions have shown with the votes on this matter over the years. 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Of course they know what they are doing, loads of people do and don’t always agree as those making the decisions have shown with the votes on this matter over the years. 

 

Not sure what makes it a one trick pony then.  Their prime function in this context is actually fairly uncomplicated.  To analyse economic conditions and data,  forecast the things that can be forecast with reasonable results.  The outcome is very uncomplicated.  To decide whether or not to set a new rate of base rate interest.

 

The irony is that the BoE MPC is indeed a one trick pony.  But not in the context of always tending to rely on the same action (the most recognised meaning of the phrase).

[Dawnrazor]

57 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

In what way do you think Brexit would benefit UK farmers - because they didn't think so (when asked by their own NFU).

In fact the NFU ignored what farmers told them and publicly stated "under no circumstances" would the NFU take a position on brexit 🤷‍♂️🤦

 

So what do you see that the NFU and UK farmers missed ? 

I don't think I saw anything that UK Farmers and the NFU didn't.

You make it sound like every farmer voted to stay, that's far from the case, even now in the area where I live and work it's still about 50 / 50 now, the farmers in the uplands wanted to stay because of the payments they get, understandably, and the farmers, mainly dairy and beef, further down the valley were desperate to leave as they didn't qualify for anything like their neighbours payments. 

I'd like to see more money for environmental schemes go to farmers who don't get it, selfishly because their loads of work for me on lowland farms and not the money available for them to carry it out.

One poll carried out by a land agency company showed 57 % of farmers questioned voted to leave.

Other things like the banning of Asulam for bracken spraying was a nonsense. 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Dawnrazor

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

I don't think I saw anything that UK Farmers and the NFU didn't.

You make it sound like every farmer voted to stay, that's far from the case, even now in the area where I live and work it's still about 50 / 50 now, the farmers in the uplands wanted to stay because of the payments they get, understandably, and the farmers, mainly dairy and beef, were desperate to leave as they didn't qualify for anything like their neighbours payments. 

I'd like to see more money for environmental schemes go to farmers who don't get it, selfishly because their loads of work for me on lowland farms and not the money available for them to carry it out.

One poll carried out by a land agency company showed 57 % of farmers questioned voted to leave.

 

 

Because they thought they were going to make bank out of it.

 

Oops. 

 

 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Because they thought they were going to make bank out of it.

 

Oops. 

 

 

Sorry?

[The Mighty Thor]

6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Sorry?

Farmers. Saw the pound signs they thought Brexit would bring without thinking about losing their labour pool and main export market. 

 

Not very astute that. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Truss saying on Sky that recession is not inevitable 🤔

 

 

[Dawnrazor]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Farmers. Saw the pound signs they thought Brexit would bring without thinking about losing their labour pool and main export market. 

 

Not very astute that. 

Every farmer that voted to leave or stay voted in their own interests, why wouldn't they? 

[Victorian]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Truss saying on Sky that recession is not inevitable 🤔

 

 

 

Not a lie,  remarkably.  But not in the way she's suggesting.  A recession could be averted,  or shortened,  by direct financial support.  Inflation (the effects of) could be artificially suppressed by simply injecting direct support into household incomes.  

 

Phree munney.  Erm... file under NOT ON THE AGENDA.

[Craig_]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

On the subject of farmland:

1/3 of the available arable land is used to keep animals.

1/3 of the available arable land is used to grow crops to feed these animals.

1/3 of the available arable land is used to grow food for human consumption.

That's part of the problem. Animals also produce huge amounts of waste and consume vast amounts of fresh water (which will be the next big commodity to become scarce)

Per acre, crops provide far more calories than animal pasture does.

Reduce meat production, plant more crops.

 

And on the subject of housing, the UK already has the smallest living spaces in Europe.

And it's getting smaller as properties are split into several flats.

Only about 2% of the land of the UK is currently built on.

There's plenty room.

Developers just choose to build in the cheapest places (like on flood plains) and avoid the more challenging engineering of building where bedrock is close to the surface and other such places.

Build them cheap, build them small, flog them for as much as you can.

 

 

Probably controversial, but maybe just need to encourage people to eat a little bit less. 

[The Mighty Thor]

5 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Every farmer that voted to leave or stay voted in their own interests, why wouldn't they? 

And yet they all ended up losing.

 

Genius stuff. 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

And yet they all ended up losing.

 

Genius stuff. 

Who's loosing? Some are making money hand over fist, the price of lamb and store ewes is as high as it's ever been.

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Who's loosing? Some are making money hand over fist, the price of lamb and store ewes is as high as it's ever been.

Oh I don't know....

 

This woman maybe? 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/feb/22/completely-contradictory-nfu-leader-attacks-uks-farming-policy&ved=2ahUKEwiCio-49K35AhXJgVwKHcIdCPAQFnoECCcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1ELGzOKIHK30sgwGvpZ77s

 

 

[periodictabledancer]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I'm watching Sky where you've got Dominic Raab and Kwasi Kwarteng tie each other in knots on the economy. 

 

My hot take?

 

They haven't got a ****ing scooby what they're doing.

The Tories currently  - " do nothing until nothing can be done".

C4News tonight made requests for a govt spokesman or a  member of Truss's campaign to appear and talk about the current inflation/recession crisis. Both refused to appear.

This is what the Tory wet dream of

" small government" looks like . Only it's small government by absence. 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Oh I don't know....

 

This woman maybe? 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/feb/22/completely-contradictory-nfu-leader-attacks-uks-farming-policy&ved=2ahUKEwiCio-49K35AhXJgVwKHcIdCPAQFnoECCcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1ELGzOKIHK30sgwGvpZ77s

 

 

So why is the market in lamb and store ewes so high?

The Farmers who benefit from the payment scheme voted to stay, the farmers who don't voted to leave.

What Minette Batters says about the lack of implementation and lack of strategy is correct, that's down to the shit government.

 

 

[Victorian]

Just now, periodictabledancer said:

The Tories currently  - " do nothing until nothing can be done".

C4News tonight made requests for a govt spokesman or a  member of Truss's campaign to appear and talk about the current inflation/recession crisis. Both refused to appear.

This is what the Tory wet dream of

" small government" looks like . Only it's small government by absence. 

 

Spaffer is taking a vital holiday,  4 weeks before he has nothing to be on holiday from.  Zahawi is also on holiday,  but not calling it a holiday.

[Don Dan]

Inflation needs government intervention via taxing those making vast profits and not by the BoE increasing the burden on those trying to make a living and feed themselves at the lower end of the scale. 
You can’t influence or sack the BoE but you certainly can with a government. This rate hike will come back a night the backside of the Tories. Especially when people are losing their homes and small businesses going bankrupt because there is very little money being spent. 
You still need people spending so as to keep the economy going. 
PS I’m no economist but I can run a household and personal budget pretty well. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Imaman
Tired tonight so typing shite.

[periodictabledancer]

24 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Every farmer that voted to leave or stay voted in their own interests, why wouldn't they? 

Those farmers  that voted to leave made two major errors -

 

UK govt would maintain the level of EU payments pre 2016. 

 

UK govt wouldn't sign trade deals out of dogma and desperation that knowingly disadvantaged them.

 

And look what they got. 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by periodictabledancer

[Nucky Thompson]

53 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 Thick Lizzy

  Touche

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

  Touche

Not mine sadly. I'm not that sharp.

 

Stolen off twitter

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, periodictabledancer said:

Those that voted to leave made teo major errors -

 

UK govt would maintain the level of EU payments pre 2016. 

 

UK govt wouldn't sign trade deals out of dogma and desperation that knowingly disadvantaged them.

 

And look what they got. 

 

The farmers that voted to leave don't get sub's, that's why they voted to leave, they've lost nothing.

[periodictabledancer]

18 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Who's loosing? Some are making money hand over fist, the price of lamb and store ewes is as high as it's ever been.

That's a tiny % of the industry.

[periodictabledancer]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

The farmers that voted to leave don't get sub's, that's why they voted to leave, they've lost nothing.

That's quite a statement that you can't possibly know to be true. 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, periodictabledancer said:

That's a tiny % of the industry.

It's not.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, periodictabledancer said:

That's quite a statement that you can't possibly know to be true. 

So farmers who were receiving little or no subs, like the majority around me, voted to leave so they would receive little or no sub's?

 

[The Mighty Thor]

8 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

So farmers who were receiving little or no subs, like the majority around me, voted to leave so they would receive little or no sub's?

 

Now they've got no subs, no workers and no market for their produce.

 

Oh and Australia & New Zealand have just been given competitive advantage to further knacker their market. 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Now they've got no subs, no workers and no market for their produce.

 

 

Eh? No subs? No workers? No market for their produce?

So the whole of the british agricultural sector are getting no subs and nobody is running and working on farms and they're selling absolutely nothing to nobody?

It's worse than I thought.

[Dawnrazor]

4 hours ago, joondalupjambo said:

Like others do not necessarily disagree however tastes have changed both with overseas travel and a diverse population across the UK.  Seasonal UK produce probably won't satisfy what everyone now all eats regardless of how good the sentiment and how sensible it appears for many.  We will always be importing something to fulfill some of the consumers needs and wants.  Change is just too hard for many unfortunately.

You're correct of course, people need to take i to account of air miles, and road miles, in their food, change is hard but it may become necessary. 

[tightrope]

5 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

 

This. 100x times over. People need to re-scope what they think are needs or wants.

I work, very hard. Will eat what I want, not waiting for a ****ing harvest so I can have a strawberry, oh the barley is off this year, too much rain. No lager for you fat boy. Aye right then. It's not ****ing Russia. 

[manaliveits105]

56 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Eh? No subs? No workers? No market for their produce?

So the whole of the british agricultural sector are getting no subs and nobody is running and working on farms and they're selling absolutely nothing to nobody?

It's worse than I thought.

the obsessed are strange people 

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, tightrope said:

I work, very hard. Will eat what I want, not waiting for a ****ing harvest so I can have a strawberry, oh the barley is off this year, too much rain. No lager for you fat boy. Aye right then. It's not ****ing Russia. 

 

😂😂

 

Not sure if satire, or not; either way, it made me laugh 👍

[Don Dan]

Being sacked was a stroke of luck for Boris Johnson

The UK is headed for more economic volatility - so where are the plans to deal with a new downturn from the two prime-ministerial hopefuls?

August 4, 2022 9:42 pm

The catastrophic prognosis for Britain’s economy would not have been believed a few months ago.
The last time that inflation passed 13 per cent, Liz Truss was five years old. Rishi Sunak had just been born.

Within a year there was a deep recession as the Government tried to control prices.

This time we are in trouble because of Russia’s war in Ukraine, cranking up energy prices – worsened by successive UK Governments’ failure to address energy security – as well as other global commodities such as wheat.

We are also in trouble because of Covid and Brexit (the headwinds of leaving our biggest trading bloc) and because of a slow response by the Treasury and the Bank of England, who are now playing catch-up.

With the tax burden set to rise to its highest since the 1940s, and energy bills expected to hit £4,210 in January (up from £1,271 10 months ago), household income will take a severe hit. Even the well-off are already feeling this crunch.

Stagflation is a big risk: slow growth, white-hot prices and high unemployment.

Read More

The Lionesses are right - girls deserve better than being mugged off over inequality in sport03 August, 2022

Perhaps history will judge him differently, but on current evidence the Bank of England governor Andrew Bailey is not covering himself in glory. He has been dealt an unlucky hand compared with his predecessors.

Rishi Sunak must take some responsibility for Britain’s lacklustre growth post-pandemic, while Liz Truss strains credulity when she claims that recession is “not inevitable”.

Neither Tory leadership contender has a plan to meaningfully soften the impact yet. They need one.

 

https://apple.news/AEwTXLhaTQ_mHYVGHY_Sj2Q

Some news outlets not ignoring the damage Brexit has caused and is contributing to our current fiscal shitshow. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Imaman

[Boof]

1 hour ago, Craig_ said:

 

Probably controversial, but maybe just need to encourage people to eat a little bit less. 

 

Less controversial might be to suggest that we - collectively - need to waste a lot less.

[Jeffros Furios]

5 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

the obsessed are strange people 

Nothing to see Volodya ....

[Taffin]

 

 

"Geez ma strawberries"