Should Scotland be an independent country?

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Not a meme is it? It's an image 

Is that it?

 

Is that what you're going with?

 

Your equally vacant mucker posted the Sturgeon SS officer image and you backed it up with that image in the very next post. The very next post. 

Image only. No comment. No calling out of IQ5's pretty poor attempt. 

 

We see you. We know what you're about. 

 

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Is that it?

 

Is that what you're going with?

 

Your equally vacant mucker posted the Sturgeon SS officer image and you backed it up with that image in the very next post. The very next post. 

Image only. No comment. No calling out of IQ5's pretty poor attempt. 

 

We see you. We know what you're about. 

 

 

Try not get yourself too worked up now 

[Konrad von Carstein]

29 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

As usual being glossed over by our resident Sturgeonites - nothing to see here 

dishonesty and wrong uns absolutely rife in the snp it seems all under chief mammy’s watch 

Said with no sense of self awareness at all...

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Try not get yourself too worked up now 

You don't possess the wit to get me worked up. 

 

Stick to posting offensive pictures, there's a good lad. 

[pablo]

This has all got particularly shit over the last two pages or so.

 

No need really.

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, pablo said:

This has all got particularly shit over the last two pages or so.

 

No need really.

Indeed.

 

It's what happens when the boys run out of both argument and intelligence.

 

The Nazi pictures were a reasonable glimpse of where they're at. 

[The Old Tolbooth]

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

[That thing you do]

7 hours ago, jonesy said:

I think a silent majority would rather have neither the hectoring harpie, Ms SSturgeon, nor the unhinged loon, Ms Truss, anywhere near their lives. I guess one positive that could come out of independence would be 50% of that cringey combo would be cut out.

Probably 100%. SNP will split on Indy as its a broad church.

 

Just because SNP is the vehicle to independence doesnt mean they will be the perpetual government, though other parties will need to be trusted again to get a shoe in

[That thing you do]

16 hours ago, Shooter McGavin said:

“OnCe In A LiFeTiMe VoTe!!!!”

 

I’ll take this chance to clear this up for some of the simpletons on here.

 

We were told the main reason to stay in the UK was staying in the EU, we decided to remain in the UK and were abruptly taken out of the EU shortly after.
 

Although, Scotland overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU.

 

So we’re now being asked if we’d like to re-consider, as the consequences of leaving the EU are proving to be disastrous, and independence opens up the opportunity to join again.
 

It’s really that simple, and I can’t believe it needs to be explained, but simple people can’t seem to grasp it.

100% agree.

 

SNP were voted in on the basis of giving peopke the choice due to change in circumstances

 

Thats the choice to say Yes, No, Change your mind, not change your mind.

 

I completely defend anyones right to say no. But some of you in wanting to avoid a ref in case you get the wrong answer are failing to realise the supreme court stuff now is about our right as a nation to have a say.

 

Not the right to a yes vote.

 

If you are happy with the status quo and Truss governing you I am truly baffled.

[periodictabledancer]

2 hours ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

😂😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

Absolutely disgusting 

 

 

 

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/world-news/nicola-sturgeon-deletes-tweet-celebrating-27641347

 

 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Absolutely disgusting 

 

 

 

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/world-news/nicola-sturgeon-deletes-tweet-celebrating-27641347

 

 

 

 

Is it ok to send some lovely bombs to actually kill Russians instead?
#tweetsdontkillrussiansbombsdo
 

[Boab]

53 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

100% agree.

 

SNP were voted in on the basis of giving peopke the choice due to change in circumstances

 

Thats the choice to say Yes, No, Change your mind, not change your mind.

 

I completely defend anyones right to say no. But some of you in wanting to avoid a ref in case you get the wrong answer are failing to realise the supreme court stuff now is about our right as a nation to have a say.

 

Not the right to a yes vote.

 

If you are happy with the status quo and Truss governing you I am truly baffled.

Yea. Time to get this thread back on track. Ignore the trolls and we'll maybe get somewhere.

Re; the Supreme Court, you're right, and it's not said enough that this ref, if it is given the green light, will be an advisory Ref. If there was a majority Yes vote, we wouldn't wake up on the 20th Oct next year and be independent. It would only trigger negotiations to further that cause. The union would still be a binding thing.

A lot of people aren't aware of this.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Boab

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Is it ok to send some lovely bombs to actually kill Russians instead?
#tweetsdontkillrussiansbombsdo
 

Stop justifying a cruel and odious tweet which celebrates the death of young conscripts really . Any death in war isn’t acceptable . She’s shown her true colours by supporting that tweet and getting pelters not only from “ naw bags” but Indy supporters ( which is heartening to see that not all of them belong to the cult of the Sturgeon ) 

 

[jack D and coke]

We need much more cruel and odious tweets imo. 

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Is it ok to send some lovely bombs to actually kill Russians instead?
#tweetsdontkillrussiansbombsdo
 

 

Yaaaassss

 

 

[jack D and coke]

James have a good read through the Daily Express and post what they’re saying about Jeremy Corbyn today about that interview he gave yesterday. 
They must be absalootly rajin no? 😀
 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, windsor1874 said:

You know the unionists are desperate when they're clinging to stuff like this How else would the defence of Ukraine be achieved if it wasnt by combatting Russian troops?! Of course the purpose is to kill them. They're the invading force. 

 

As an aside, have you not got a job/hobbies/some semblance of a normal life to lead? Or do you just keep clicking refresh on Google searches of Sturgeon and trans people?

 

Correct **** the ivans.
There’s not enough there of them dead or this might be over. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

James have a good read through the Daily Express and post what they’re saying about Jeremy Corbyn today about that interview he gave yesterday. 
They must be absalootly rajin no? 😀
 

Please, go on...

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Please, go on...

It was trending on twitter last night…the express must be getting slack if they’ve missed this beaut! 😀

[henryheart]

4 hours ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Theres nothing wrong with being in a union, if it works.

Scotland hasn’t voted for the tories for about 60 years, but here we are, and looks like we’re stuck with them for the foreseeable. I personally wouldn’t describe that as a “working” relationship.

 

Of-course there would need to be a vote on re-joining the EU, and giving the overwhelming support for remaining in the EU, I’d hazard a guess we’d vote to rejoin.

 

Either way, it’s Scottish people deciding what they want for Scotland, not the Tory party deciding.

 

 

It strikes me that the people of Scotland have repeatedly decided what they want for Scotland. More than than a million people in Scotland voted to leave the EU in the referendum, which is more than has ever voted for the Scottish independence parties in any election. Of course more people in Scotland voted to stay in the EU, myself included, but if you use that argument then it also has to be accepted that there has never been an occasion when the pro-independence parties have won the majority of the votes cast in any election for either the UK or Scottish Parliaments.

[Boab]

10 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

It strikes me that the people of Scotland have repeatedly decided what they want for Scotland. More than than a million people in Scotland voted to leave the EU in the referendum, which is more than has ever voted for the Scottish independence parties in any election. Of course more people in Scotland voted to stay in the EU, myself included, but if you use that argument then it also has to be accepted that there has never been an occasion when the pro-independence parties have won the majority of the votes cast in any election for either the UK or Scottish Parliaments.

Not sure about your figures.

Over 1.3M voted for Scottish Independence parties in the last Scottish Election last year.

Far more than the million or so who voted to leave the EU.

[manaliveits105]

Yet 55% do not want a referendum so smurfs should just pipe down, move on and let the good Scottish people get on with their lives 

 

[henryheart]

13 minutes ago, Boab said:

Not sure about your figures.

Over 1.3M voted for Scottish Independence parties in the last Scottish Election last year.

Far more than the million or so who voted to leave the EU.

 

Sorry you are right. I should have referred only to UK elections rather than Scottish Parliament elections. In the UK election in the aftermath of Brexit the pro independence parties vote was less than the 1 million who voted for Brexit. As you say, in the most recent Scottish Parliament elections the number of pro independence party votes exceeded the number of pro brexit votes.

[Boab]

56 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

Sorry you are right. I should have referred only to UK elections rather than Scottish Parliament elections. In the UK election in the aftermath of Brexit the pro independence parties vote was less than the 1 million who voted for Brexit. As you say, in the most recent Scottish Parliament elections the number of pro independence party votes exceeded the number of pro brexit votes.

No worries.

👍

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Boab said:

Not sure about your figures.

Over 1.3M voted for Scottish Independence parties in the last Scottish Election last year.

Far more than the million or so who voted to leave the EU.

 

I got thinking about list votes so I looked up the numbers.

 

Between SNP & Green, they got 1,326,194 from the constituencies.

 

Between those 2 plus Alba, they got 1,359,611 from the list vote.

 

That's pretty crazy, we all get 1 vote in each, so that's an extra 33,000 votes for independence with Alba in play.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, windsor1874 said:

You know the unionists are desperate when they're clinging to stuff like this How else would the defence of Ukraine be achieved if it wasnt by combatting Russian troops?! Of course the purpose is to kill them. They're the invading force. 

 

As an aside, have you not got a job/hobbies/some semblance of a normal life to lead? Or do you just keep clicking refresh on Google searches of Sturgeon and trans people?

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

It was trending on twitter last night…the express must be getting slack if they’ve missed this beaut! 😀

 

[Jeffros Furios]

Corbyn =  w a n k e r 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Jeffros Furios

[JudyJudyJudy]

18 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Corbyn =  w a n k e r 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Leave JC alone ! 😂

[Dawnrazor]

19 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Corbyn =  w a n k e r 

He put a Vegan in the Shadow Agriculture Minister role, he lost the rural vote there. 

[OTT]

5 hours ago, That thing you do said:

Probably 100%. SNP will split on Indy as its a broad church.

 

Just because SNP is the vehicle to independence doesnt mean they will be the perpetual government, though other parties will need to be trusted again to get a shoe in

 

I would expect this to happen. I think there are a lot of careerists in the SNP now that lack the passion for Indy that many of the old guard had (Salmond and the 2014 older generation of politicians). I think the Alba split showed there is dissatisfaction amongst many of the older grass roots activists. The move to NATO backed by the likes of Alyn Smith, Stewart MacDonald and the youth wing is at odds with the principles many of those grass roots activists were brought up with. The firmness of the anti nuclear stance I think is on shaky ground too tbh. You've also got the obsession with gender/ transgender issues too which these indy supporters don't back and doesn't appear to have universal backing within the party - Joan McAlpine and Joanna Cherry two vocal critics on it and at great personal and professional cost. 

 

My point is that although its a broad church, I think some of Sturgeons actions are at odds with that idea and folk are being pushed into going along with party policy that they fundamentally disagree with because it is the most realistic vehicle for Independence. Once that cause that brings them together is removed, then there isn't anything to stick around for and I'm actually quite looking forward to when that day comes so that this polarising issue can be removed and the government of the day can with all the levers of independence focus on tackling the cost of living crisis, child poverty and to experiment with drug legislation to find a system which best fits our cultures needs - its clear the UK governments one size fits all approach isn't working and Portugal had huge success by going a completely different way, likewise Switzerland. 

[OTT]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

It was trending on twitter last night…the express must be getting slack if they’ve missed this beaut! 😀

 

I have a lot of time for Corbyn, but he's got a weird take on Russia. They invade so the best approach is to deprive Ukraine of arms to defend itself and let Russia consume the country?

 

Do we do the same when they invade Lithuania or Finland? 

 

Its one of the things that annoys me with many of the vocal Alba activists on twitter. They seem almost pro-russian in their attacks on the West defending Ukraine. I think nations rights to self determination is important as is their sovereignty, so to see some of the hot takes from other Alba members when Ukraine very clearly is defending itself is really disappointing. I appreciate its not all black and white and Russia had agreements on eastern expansion of Nato which has been broken but their approach has been horrific. Beyond all of that, average joe on the street in Ukraine has saw countless family members murdered by Russia and their lives turned upside down. To sympathise with Russia on that is weird. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Was quite enjoying this thread but **** this thread 

[manaliveits105]

Anas Sarwar defends Liz Truss for calling Nicola Sturgeon an ‘attention-seeker’

Scottish Labour leader pours scorn on SNP claims that Tory leadership contender’s comments were an insult to Scotland
 

Guid lad Anas 

[Dazo]

15 hours ago, That thing you do said:

Probably 100%. SNP will split on Indy as its a broad church.

 

Just because SNP is the vehicle to independence doesnt mean they will be the perpetual government, though other parties will need to be trusted again to get a shoe in

100% ? There is literally nothing to suggest they will split. There are jobs/careers embroiled with the snp machine and they aren’t going risk that. Are they suddenly going to become Labour, Tories or some made up party and expect to stay on the gravy train ? 
 

Maybe over time when independence is out the way and their voters start to see  how utterly useless they are at running the country they will be out. Some will ride, most will fall in the current incumbents.  

[The Mighty Thor]

5 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Anas Sarwar defends Liz Truss for calling Nicola Sturgeon an ‘attention-seeker’

Scottish Labour leader pours scorn on SNP claims that Tory leadership contender’s comments were an insult to Scotland
 

Guid lad Anas 

Poor Anus will very quickly get to find out what being ignored is all about as he leads his branch office into yet another electoral hammering. That of course assumes he's in post long enough. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Dazo said:

100% ? There is literally nothing to suggest they will split. There are jobs/careers embroiled with the snp machine and they aren’t going risk that. Are they suddenly going to become Labour, Tories or some made up party and expect to stay on the gravy train ? 
 

Maybe over time when independence is out the way and their voters start to see  how utterly useless they are at running the country they will be out. Some will ride, most will fall in the current incumbents.  

Yes the gravy train Will be still travelling full steam ahead of Scotland became Indy . The egos of certain politicians wouldn’t stand not being in the limelight , Nicky is desperate to be Scotlands first real First minister . Desperate for that place in history 

[manaliveits105]

Only 5 out of the target 10 national nhs treatment centres opened - another failure by Chief Mammy 

 

[That thing you do]

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/business-62406689?fbclid=IwAR3eA7sAikYKy-D4_r-7BMJAG4ZqPysqzX9N4PALxy4hnesQiDrPcMpmpFc

 

13.3% inflation in UK. Recession all of 2023

 

And for those of you who are fans of the status quo living standards are going "down down" while Captain Truss or Sunak are "Burning Bridges" blaming France for their Brexit mess.

 

Whats depressing is someone thinking Rees Mogg plus the chaos of the UK generally is "ok" and best Scotland can do.

 

Sorry but I only need to look at UK v Norway handling of oil wealth to know Scotland would do better.

[Unknown user]

7 hours ago, Dazo said:

100% ? There is literally nothing to suggest they will split. 

 

Their support will splinter once their core policy is no more, I'd certainly have no reason to vote for them again.

If they don't split they'll become marginalised as support drifts away to reflect the other ideologies. I'll look left, some will look right. Ironically, a moderate conservative party would do pretty well up here post independence I reckon.

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Their support will splinter once their core policy is no more, I'd certainly have no reason to vote for them again.

If they don't split they'll become marginalised as support drifts away to reflect the other ideologies. I'll look left, some will look right. Ironically, a moderate conservative party would do pretty well up here post independence I reckon.

All debatable and absolutely possible. The only thing 100% though is the first government after independence will be a snp government. 

 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

All debatable and absolutely possible. The only thing 100% though is the first government after independence will be a snp government. 

 

 

The only actual 100% is that Scotland will get whatever England votes for under the current system.

[Dazo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

The only actual 100% is that Scotland will get whatever England votes for under the current system.

100% made up. 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

100% made up. 

 

England gets the government it votes for.

 

Scotland also gets the government England votes for.

[Dazo]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

England gets the government it votes for.

 

Scotland also gets the government England votes for.

England or Scotland don’t get a vote, it’s a uk vote. The uk gets the government the uk votes for. Doesn’t matter how much you hate the tories those simple pretty basic facts never change. 

[Mikey1874]

While it remains unclear whether enough people care, a key problem remains the competence of the Scottish Government. Mediocre at best. It also has several number 'working parties' or Government commissions with nice ideas but very little action.

 

For me, if you want Independence, show that it works. Use your existing powers.

 

Independence is presented as a brave, exciting future. A new, better energy policy for example. Maybe attracting more people with a more generous immigration law.

 

But then look closer. There was once a brave, bold policy to reform local government finance. Was it 2007 council tax was going to be replaced. But you'll see council tax still exists. I live in a £300k plus valued flat paying low band Council tax. 

 

There are plenty other examples. Be bold Scottish Government. Show Independence would be good now. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

While it remains unclear whether enough people care, a key problem remains the competence of the Scottish Government. Mediocre at best. It also has several number 'working parties' or Government commissions with nice ideas but very little action.

 

For me, if you want Independence, show that it works. Use your existing powers.

 

Independence is presented as a brave, exciting future. A new, better energy policy for example. Maybe attracting more people with a more generous immigration law.

 

But then look closer. There was once a brave, bold policy to reform local government finance. Was it 2007 council tax was going to be replaced. But you'll see council tax still exists. I live in a £300k plus valued flat paying low band Council tax. 

 

There are plenty other examples. Be bold Scottish Government. Show Independence would be good now. 

 

Independence is about Scotland governing itself, voting for our own governments and holding them accountable, making our own decisions.

 

The rest is hopeful, I'm sure we won't all be singing kum ba ya round the campfire as the money rolls in, but we'll have a say in our national government.