Should Scotland be an independent country?

[manaliveits105]

8 minutes ago, OTT said:

Yup. Most likely the elderly who voted in their droves to protect the union. Some gratitude eh? 

The auld nawbags - another disgrace by the snp cult

[OTT]

Frightening how literally everything the no camp said was bullshit. 

[pablo]

6 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

The council tax reforms failed as they were vote losers and too costly/difficult?

 

I must have imagined the SNP constructing a viable and fairer alternative to the current council tax system, putting it to the Scottish parliament, and having Labour, the Tories, and the Lib Dems reject it.

 

Scrapping the council tax was a 2007 election pledge that they U-turned on. To add to the list.

[H2]

Yawn yawn yawn. 

[manaliveits105]

5 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Scrapping the council tax was a 2007 election pledge that they U-turned on. To add to the list.

LIARS 

[Jeffros Furios]

3 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

LIARS 

MOVE ALONG VOLODYA  !! 

[dobmisterdobster]

9 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Back on topic 

Scotland’s poorest teenagers ‘betrayed’ by Nicola Sturgeon as exam pass rates plummet

‘Badge of shame’ for First Minister as ‘chasm’ widens between the most disadvantaged and the wealthiest

 

6 years ago she promised to close the gap = FAILED 

smurf off 

 

She's far too busy owning the Tories on Twitter dot com.

 

 

You expect her to care about failing education, record drug deaths/suicides etc?

 

[That thing you do]

19 hours ago, jambomjm74 said:

So independence… what would that really mean.  
Fairness, nae torries and making our own decisions… is that really what we’d get ?? Would it really be independence or actually just a messier more expensive version of what we have now. 

We would have to use the British pound for a number of years and so be held under the control of the Bank of Englands monetary policy until we create a new currency which would ultimately be tied to U.K. our biggest market  (see below) 
We share the same island (that’s why we are British not because we have mair goons up here)

To get goods into European:world markets we would transit the majority of goods through England.. we could double up our delays, a sort of supersized Brexit - at Carlisle and Dover.. cost £s and tonnes of extra forms to do the same things. Ultimately losing trade. 
Our infrastructure, army - electricity etc “the utilities” are mainly U.K. owned and any unwind would be incredibly costly and take many years .. in fact we’d probably find it sensible to share in the end. The big promise to the CND mob wouldn’t happened we’d keep those Nukes at Faslane as NATO would tell us too or we’d be out on our arse.
We’d have split families and friends across the U.K. Can I go and see granny yep but it’s a four hour wait at Carlisle and remember the £15 at the toll.. I’ll no bother then …

Most of the companies are cross U.K. but majority of business sits with U.K. registration. c 90% population and customers. .. decisions that may favour Scottish locations would change to U.K. this is an ongoing London / Edinburgh battle currently. Key jobs likely to move to England. Add higher tax for senior or high paid high worth its an easy decision. Also who would want paid in a non U.K. £ Sterling.. the rush south would surprise people up here. 

We currently have trade of c. 62% exports and 67% imports with the U.K.   just a “small” reliance on the U.K.. 

If we had independence, we’d have our own parliament .. (don’t we have that on a devolved basis already) but geographical and economically and socially be ruled by our relationship with the rest of the U.K. the larger party. 
We’d still all use English as our main language.. 

Does anyone else see a few minor flaws here also a real risk that independence would be a false dawn and the reality wouldn’t be independence just a continued more expensive status quo. 
ohh no that’s all just fear.. no it isn’t it’s just the costs and what would be a Sudo-independence at best.  

We’d see the reworking of the walls the Romans first built. Funnily enough the Romans built these to keep the Scots out…. 

 

Ok. Where to start with this.

 

If we voted yes in october 23 it is not a magic wand and next day we are on our own. Theres going to be a transition period.

 

During said transition period as terms are sorted out GBP continues to be currency in Scotland.

 

My suggestion would be that for a short time (12 Months) after transition we use GBP while we set up a scottish central bank, which would issue Scottish Pounds (pound scots- SCP). During this transition there is time to mark prices in both currencies (as countries did before the euro).

 

In addition, id also bring in a digital SCP to ensure fiscally, theres deflationary pressure on SCP (since digital currencies have a max supply). Id look to create a 70/30 split with 30% as a CBDC.

 

Whether there should be a short/long term pegging of the scots pound to sterling is for economists to decide. I dont think so. I think SCP will be harder as a currency than GBP. But, I dont profess to be a pegging expert, though ive studied dollar pegging a bit.

 

Even if Scotland opted to use Sterling longer theres no law against doing so and while BOE would set interest rates during that time, well, they do now and maintaining that longer term is similar to the ECB model for the Euro.

 

RUK will want us to do it so we prop up their balance of trade !

 

Cross Border goods would need checks (if Scotland joins EU or my preference EEA ) but people can move more freely as per ROI. We say RUK is our main trading partner but a good % of that is scottish goods headed overseas via english ports.

 

England in all this, technically, The Kingdom of England and Wales (no Scotland no UK) is not going to stop trading with Scotland. Its will literally be a small isolated market and not have the options frankly.

 

There would not be the capital flight some think there would. Actually, Scotland is more investible in this scenario as EU /RUK bridge than it is now as a UK region. 

 

No, Indy would not be expensive status quo. Indy would give Scotland the powers it needs over immigration economy etc where our priorities are different, needs different, we choose a different path.

 

Fundamentally, federalism (defence shared rest Scotland is autonomous) would suit me under certain circumstances but WM isnt going to to do it.

 

So its survive or thrive. I choose thrive.

 

[That thing you do]

12 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Ach, fell asleep. Anyway, I'm sure you'll agree with me that things like the (mercifully delayed/dropped?) named person scheme, covid restrictions dragged out as long as possible, minimum unit pricing on alcohol, near universal bus passes, and the bizarre and concerning hate crime bill are all evidence of a government which believes it knows better than you or I how we should be living oudaor lives.

 

When the government is non-discriminative and dull, The people are contented and generous. When the government is searching and discriminative, The people are disappointed and contentious.

 

 

 

Minimum pricing was brought in as it was successful elsewhere at tackling alcoholism. Rightly or wrongly the opposition say what will SNP do about x and so they do something.

 

Free Public transport also has its origins from trials and policies elsewhere in Europe (Finland I believe). This happens alot. "Policy borrowing" is where Curriculum for Excellence came from as did baby boxes.

 

Named persons intensions were again a solution to a specific problem. Like it or hate it the idea was a Baby P type scenario couldnt happen in Scotland.

 

Hate Crime Bill was again...what are you going to do about racism/sectarianism ...answer, legislation.

 

To be honest I dont personally like some of these either. But my question is do these policies in general make Scotland better even if they dont appeal to me? Mostly yes, though i think hate crime bill was unworkable tbh.

 

The drug death issue id personally decriminalise/provide facilities for addicts to get access via a clinic and take the lottery of black market pill contents out. But laws on that are reserved. Theres that rope tying hands again.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by That thing you do

[pablo]

22 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

Ok. Where to start with this.

 

If we voted yes in october 23 it is not a magic wand and next day we are on our own. Theres going to be a transition period.

 

During said transition period as terms are sorted out GBP continues to be currency in Scotland.

 

My suggestion would be that for a short time (12 Months) after transition we use GBP while we set up a scottish central bank, which would issue Scottish Pounds (pound scots- SCP). During this transition there is time to mark prices in both currencies (as countries did before the euro).

 

In addition, id also bring in a digital SCP to ensure fiscally, theres deflationary pressure on SCP (since digital currencies have a max supply). Id look to create a 70/30 split with 30% as a CBDC.

 

Whether there should be a short/long term pegging of the scots pound to sterling is for economists to decide. I dont think so. I think SCP will be harder as a currency than GBP. But, I dont profess to be a pegging expert, though ive studied dollar pegging a bit.

 

Even if Scotland opted to use Sterling longer theres no law against doing so and while BOE would set interest rates during that time, well, they do now and maintaining that longer term is similar to the ECB model for the Euro.

 

RUK will want us to do it so we prop up their balance of trade !

 

Cross Border goods would need checks (if Scotland joins EU or my preference EEA ) but people can move more freely as per ROI. We say RUK is our main trading partner but a good % of that is scottish goods headed overseas via english ports.

 

England in all this, technically, The Kingdom of England and Wales (no Scotland no UK) is not going to stop trading with Scotland. Its will literally be a small isolated market and not have the options frankly.

 

There would not be the capital flight some think there would. Actually, Scotland is more investible in this scenario as EU /RUK bridge than it is now as a UK region. 

 

No, Indy would not be expensive status quo. Indy would give Scotland the powers it needs over immigration economy etc where our priorities are different, needs different, we choose a different path.

 

Fundamentally, federalism (defence shared rest Scotland is autonomous) would suit me under certain circumstances but WM isnt going to to do it.

 

So its survive or thrive. I choose thrive.

 

 

Then why not just do it? Why wait for Westminster's cooperation and a negotiation?

[jack D and coke]

20 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Ach, fell asleep. Anyway, I'm sure you'll agree with me that things like the (mercifully delayed/dropped?) named person scheme, covid restrictions dragged out as long as possible, minimum unit pricing on alcohol, near universal bus passes, sleekit extension of the no booze on trains rules and the bizarre and concerning hate crime bill are all evidence of a government which believes it knows better than you or I how we should be living our lives.

 

When the government is non-discriminative and dull, The people are contented and generous. When the government is searching and discriminative, The people are disappointed and contentious.

 

 

 

I waited a full 24 hours for you to come up with that?

Pretty much what I thought pal😐👍🏼

[pablo]

13 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

Minimum pricing was brought in as it was successful elsewhere at tackling alcoholism. Rightly or wrongly the opposition say what will SNP do about x and so they do something.

 

Free Public transport also has its origins from trials and policies elsewhere in Europe (Finland I believe). This happens alot. "Policy borrowing" is where Curriculum for Excellence came from as did baby boxes.

 

Named persons intensions were again a solution to a specific problem. Like it or hate it the idea was a Baby P type scenario couldnt happen in Scotland.

 

Hate Crime Bill was again...what are you going to do about racism/sectarianism ...answer, legislation.

 

To be honest I dont personally like some of these either. But my question is do these policies in general make Scotland better even if they dont appeal to me? Mostly yes, though i think hate crime bill was unworkable tbh.

 

The drug death issue id personally decriminalise/provide facilities for addicts to get access via a clinic and take the lottery of black market pill contents out. But laws on that are reserved. Theres that rope tying hands again.

 

 

 

Why are Scotland's drug deaths much higher than other areas of the UK with similar socio-economic conditions?

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

Why are Scotland's drug deaths much higher than other areas of the UK with similar socio-economic conditions?

Why do you think? 
We do count them differently here for one possible explanation. Drugs in your system after death classed as drug death here. I read this the other day too. 
https://www.sdf.org.uk/blog-poverty-is-the-root-of-scotlands-fatal-drug-overdose-crisis/

[pablo]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Why do you think? 
We do count them differently here for one possible explanation. Drugs in your system after death classed as drug death here. I read this the other day too. 
https://www.sdf.org.uk/blog-poverty-is-the-root-of-scotlands-fatal-drug-overdose-crisis/

 

MUP has driven some of the most vulnerable in society, the homeless in particular away from strong booze and onto dangerous counterfeit street drugs.

 

Budget cuts have seriously affected the support services local councils are able to provide.

 

 A complex problem and the above obviously isn't the only factors. But we should be doing much better than we are.

 

Taking her eye off the ball and these things happen...just doesn't cut it here.

[jambomjm74]

47 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

Ok. Where to start with this.

 

If we voted yes in october 23 it is not a magic wand and next day we are on our own. Theres going to be a transition period.

 

During said transition period as terms are sorted out GBP continues to be currency in Scotland.

 

My suggestion would be that for a short time (12 Months) after transition we use GBP while we set up a scottish central bank, which would issue Scottish Pounds (pound scots- SCP). During this transition there is time to mark prices in both currencies (as countries did before the euro).

 

In addition, id also bring in a digital SCP to ensure fiscally, theres deflationary pressure on SCP (since digital currencies have a max supply). Id look to create a 70/30 split with 30% as a CBDC.

 

Whether there should be a short/long term pegging of the scots pound to sterling is for economists to decide. I dont think so. I think SCP will be harder as a currency than GBP. But, I dont profess to be a pegging expert, though ive studied dollar pegging a bit.

 

Even if Scotland opted to use Sterling longer theres no law against doing so and while BOE would set interest rates during that time, well, they do now and maintaining that longer term is similar to the ECB model for the Euro.

 

RUK will want us to do it so we prop up their balance of trade !

 

Cross Border goods would need checks (if Scotland joins EU or my preference EEA ) but people can move more freely as per ROI. We say RUK is our main trading partner but a good % of that is scottish goods headed overseas via english ports.

 

England in all this, technically, The Kingdom of England and Wales (no Scotland no UK) is not going to stop trading with Scotland. Its will literally be a small isolated market and not have the options frankly.

 

There would not be the capital flight some think there would. Actually, Scotland is more investible in this scenario as EU /RUK bridge than it is now as a UK region. 

 

No, Indy would not be expensive status quo. Indy would give Scotland the powers it needs over immigration economy etc where our priorities are different, needs different, we choose a different path.

 

Fundamentally, federalism (defence shared rest Scotland is autonomous) would suit me under certain circumstances but WM isnt going to to do it.

 

So its survive or thrive. I choose thrive.

 

Firstly there is no Oct 23rd vote. This is just game playing to raise the stakes and add more division and create a future environment for Indy .. they know there isn’t the support currently and are playing a long game. 
Your currency alternatives would leave us tied to the U.K., the key point I made was around a sudo-Indy. 
You failed to address any of the economic or geographic realities instead hoping that we’d thrive instead of survive… 

The biggest point you ignore is the time and cost of this sudo-independence, while the rest of the world doesn’t have this to deal with and we do. We’d go backwards .. 
The brain drain and asset movement down south would be a massive own goal … as would an increasingly uninterested england (you already say it doesn’t care, wait till it gets hostile) 

I’d love to believe that having our own politicians they’d sort everything out … how’s the attainment gap going, the only way to improve Scotland’s status quo… ohh it’s worsened after 10 years of Scot Govs no1 priority. Why would Indy not see the same failure(s) esp given the challenges and extra difficulty and focus else where  ??

Ultimately we’d have a Scot Parliament, governed by U.K. focused companies and the English/Welsh consumer whilst trying to convince them after a long and costly divorce (where we’ve called them out as being Tory scum / unfairn etc) to remains friends.  
It’s like Brexit on Steroids and ignores the truth and impotence of politicians. 

Sudo Indy 2 should be the headline 

[Unknown user]

45 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

Firstly there is no Oct 23rd vote. This is just game playing to raise the stakes and add more division and create a future environment for Indy .. they know there isn’t the support currently and are playing a long game. 
Your currency alternatives would leave us tied to the U.K., the key point I made was around a sudo-Indy. 
You failed to address any of the economic or geographic realities instead hoping that we’d thrive instead of survive… 

The biggest point you ignore is the time and cost of this sudo-independence, while the rest of the world doesn’t have this to deal with and we do. We’d go backwards .. 
The brain drain and asset movement down south would be a massive own goal … as would an increasingly uninterested england (you already say it doesn’t care, wait till it gets hostile) 

I’d love to believe that having our own politicians they’d sort everything out … how’s the attainment gap going, the only way to improve Scotland’s status quo… ohh it’s worsened after 10 years of Scot Govs no1 priority. Why would Indy not see the same failure(s) esp given the challenges and extra difficulty and focus else where  ??

Ultimately we’d have a Scot Parliament, governed by U.K. focused companies and the English/Welsh consumer whilst trying to convince them after a long and costly divorce (where we’ve called them out as being Tory scum / unfairn etc) to remains friends.  
It’s like Brexit on Steroids and ignores the truth and impotence of politicians. 

Sudo Indy 2 should be the headline 

 

Surely the headline writers can spell?

[Boab]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Surely the headline writers can spell?

It's all Greek to me !

😂

[jack D and coke]

It’s his spelling of the “torries” that gets to me I’ll admit 😐

 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s his spelling of the “torries” that gets to me I’ll admit 😐

 

 

I'm going to start spelling it sudo soon, it's infiltrating mi brane

[The Old Tolbooth]

21 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s his spelling of the “torries” that gets to me I’ll admit 😐

 

 

Not just me then  

[The Old Tolbooth]

Scottish Oil - Revenue goes to England.

Scottish Gas - Revenue goes to England.

Scottish Wind/Tidal - Revenue and actual power go to England.

And now... Scottish Water - England calling for it, as their private sector is failing them miserably.

 

Scotland's place in the Union...

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Not just me then  

Wee spelling and grammar mistakes rustle my jimmys so bad  

4 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

Scotland's place in the Union...

Seems to be just accept that things can never be any better than they are now. 
Accept perpetual Torrie govts 😐

[Ainsley Harriott]

12 hours ago, OTT said:

Frightening how literally everything the no camp said was bullshit. 

Scottish Civil Rights Movement 🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

Heard it all now. Martin Luther King 🤣🤣🤣

[Unknown user]

58 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Not just me then  

 

I was starting to wonder if Susan Doyle was a person, bloody sudo.

[The Old Tolbooth]

 

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I was starting to wonder if Susan Doyle was a person, bloody sudo.

 

 

[That thing you do]

3 hours ago, jambomjm74 said:

Firstly there is no Oct 23rd vote. This is just game playing to raise the stakes and add more division and create a future environment for Indy .. they know there isn’t the support currently and are playing a long game. 
Your currency alternatives would leave us tied to the U.K., the key point I made was around a sudo-Indy. 
You failed to address any of the economic or geographic realities instead hoping that we’d thrive instead of survive… 

The biggest point you ignore is the time and cost of this sudo-independence, while the rest of the world doesn’t have this to deal with and we do. We’d go backwards .. 
The brain drain and asset movement down south would be a massive own goal … as would an increasingly uninterested england (you already say it doesn’t care, wait till it gets hostile) 

I’d love to believe that having our own politicians they’d sort everything out … how’s the attainment gap going, the only way to improve Scotland’s status quo… ohh it’s worsened after 10 years of Scot Govs no1 priority. Why would Indy not see the same failure(s) esp given the challenges and extra difficulty and focus else where  ??

Ultimately we’d have a Scot Parliament, governed by U.K. focused companies and the English/Welsh consumer whilst trying to convince them after a long and costly divorce (where we’ve called them out as being Tory scum / unfairn etc) to remains friends.  
It’s like Brexit on Steroids and ignores the truth and impotence of politicians. 

Sudo Indy 2 should be the headline 

Oct 23 or not, its an analogy. You dont wake up the day after the vote independent, these things take time

 

My currency idea leave us (sensibly) for the transition period maintaining GBP while building out the Scottish Pound then moving to own currency.

 

Why would indy lead to a brain drain? Why would indy Scotland, creating new departments, seeking innovative individuals to shape it be unattractive?

 

Especially one EEA/EU bound thats welcoming and outward looking.

 

Youll get diaspora back. Edinburgh as a full soverign capital will get embassasies etc.

 

What would Brexit England offer? 

 

Brain drain has been happening for generations. Thats caused by London based centralisation.

 

It would attract more people not less.

Its not Brexit on steriods. Brexit is,about lifting the drawbridge and saying no to anything with Europe. 

 

Independence is about international outlook.

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Don’t spill your coffee with what I’m about to write ! It’s some bit of praise for the SG . 😎
 

I recently attended an online training session related to Social security Scotland and them taking over the responsibility for Disability living allowance and PIP . The handover is now complete and it is now the Scottish Govt responsibility to authorise these benefits . Both PIP and DLA claimants will be transferred to the Adult disability payment in due course . 
 

 

The presentation was excellent . There is a real emphasis on treating potential and current claimants with respect and dignity , unlike the UK approach which claimants felt stigmatised them and made them feel like they were chancers and not genuine with their claims . 
 

The new service is definitely more customer based and accessible too with a variety of ways one can contact SSS . The assessment process is also more customer focussed and not set out to

” trap “ people . Their applications will be considered with all available evidence and not just medical evidence but other evidence too . 
 

Crucially if your deemed to have a 

“chronic “ health condition , your claim will only be reviewed between 5 to 10 years after . There may also be some who will be awarded a lifeline claim due to their chronic health condition . This is in response to the horror stories previously were people with no limbs etc. were constantly reviewed ! 
 

Ofcourse there will be a rigorous process of awarding these benefits so it’s not s free for all but as stated it’s underpinned by humanity and respect. 
 

 

 

[BlueRiver]

52 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

Oct 23 or not, its an analogy. You dont wake up the day after the vote independent, these things take time

 

My currency idea leave us (sensibly) for the transition period maintaining GBP while building out the Scottish Pound then moving to own currency.

 

Why would indy lead to a brain drain? Why would indy Scotland, creating new departments, seeking innovative individuals to shape it be unattractive?

 

Especially one EEA/EU bound thats welcoming and outward looking.

 

Youll get diaspora back. Edinburgh as a full soverign capital will get embassasies etc.

 

What would Brexit England offer? 

 

Brain drain has been happening for generations. Thats caused by London based centralisation.

 

It would attract more people not less.

Its not Brexit on steriods. Brexit is,about lifting the drawbridge and saying no to anything with Europe. 

 

Independence is about international outlook.

 

 

 

Your last sentences sound very similar to an ideal of Global Britain that was floated a lot during another referendum. 
 

No longer shackled to the EU there would be a broader global vision for the UK…

 

I mean I’m not saying that Brexit and Scottish Indy are the same but there are strong parallels with the rhetoric deployed. 
 

 

[Unknown user]

23 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

Your last sentences sound very similar to an ideal of Global Britain that was floated a lot during another referendum. 
 

No longer shackled to the EU there would be a broader global vision for the UK…

 

I mean I’m not saying that Brexit and Scottish Indy are the same but there are strong parallels with the rhetoric deployed. 

 

You're right, they're not the same, the UK is a corrupt, sinking ship that's dragging Scotland down with it and we have no say in affairs or control over our borders, no sovereignty.

 

It's pretty much the situation that Leavers pretended the UK were in with the EU, so I suppose it's natural to hear similar points. It's really up to individuals to be smart enough to look and understand the differences in the situation.

[That thing you do]

47 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You're right, they're not the same, the UK is a corrupt, sinking ship that's dragging Scotland down with it and we have no say in affairs or control over our borders, no sovereignty.

 

It's pretty much the situation that Leavers pretended the UK were in with the EU, so I suppose it's natural to hear similar points. It's really up to individuals to be smart enough to look and understand the differences in the situation.

Exactly this

[Ainsley Harriott]

1 hour ago, BlueRiver said:

Your last sentences sound very similar to an ideal of Global Britain that was floated a lot during another referendum. 
 

No longer shackled to the EU there would be a broader global vision for the UK…

 

I mean I’m not saying that Brexit and Scottish Indy are the same but there are strong parallels with the rhetoric deployed. 
 

 

The deshackalying of 2 unions. Scottish Nationalists pretend Scottish independence is about freedom and self rule but the rush to rejoin the EU tells you it's actually about hatred of all things English.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Ainsley Harriott

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, Ainsley Harriott said:

The deshackalying of 2 unions. Scottish Nationalists pretend Scottish independence is about freedom and self rule but the rush to rejoin the EU tells you it's actually about hatred of all things English.

Another shocker 0/10

 

Trolling is no longer what it was. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Another shocker 0/10

 

Trolling is no longer what it was. 

Love how anything you don't agree with is trolling. No counter argument, obviously incapable of stringing one together.

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Another shocker 0/10

 

Trolling is no longer what it was. 

Must be the same village as the other one.

How novel is that.
 

[Boab]

6 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Love how anything you don't agree with is trolling. No counter argument, obviously incapable of stringing one together.

A counter argument would be, no, I don't agree that Scottish Nationalists hate everything English.

It's a pretty strong counter argument because it's..em..pretty sensible !

[jambomjm74]

2 hours ago, That thing you do said:

Oct 23 or not, its an analogy. You dont wake up the day after the vote independent, these things take time

 

My currency idea leave us (sensibly) for the transition period maintaining GBP while building out the Scottish Pound then moving to own currency.

 

Why would indy lead to a brain drain? Why would indy Scotland, creating new departments, seeking innovative individuals to shape it be unattractive?

 

Especially one EEA/EU bound thats welcoming and outward looking.

 

Youll get diaspora back. Edinburgh as a full soverign capital will get embassasies etc.

 

What would Brexit England offer? 

 

Brain drain has been happening for generations. Thats caused by London based centralisation.

 

It would attract more people not less.

Its not Brexit on steriods. Brexit is,about lifting the drawbridge and saying no to anything with Europe. 

 

Independence is about international outlook.

 

 

 

Current trade is virtually all with U.K.  62% export and 67% import.

Britain is one island and one people with a shared history, culture and language.. I get the Scottish stuff, I’m a proud Scot.

The brain drain would worsen.. U.K. firms and higher individually taxed. 

How wouldn’t Scexit be the same as Brexit… same barriers costs and negative impacts, with the same limited opportunities all based on we can do better on our own; which I don’t believe is the case. 

[The Mighty Thor]

30 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Love how anything you don't agree with is trolling. No counter argument, obviously incapable of stringing one together.

No your point was nonsense. As the majority of them are.

 

There's no counter argument to fuddery i'm afraid.

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

The deshackalying of 2 unions. Scottish Nationalists pretend Scottish independence is about freedom and self rule but the rush to rejoin the EU tells you it's actually about hatred of all things English.

HTF is wanting to join the single market or the EU and thereby enabling Scots free movement across Europe a sign of "hatred of all things English"?

 

That is Tucker Carlson levels of idiocy and if you could explain your pov rationally, supported by facts I'd be incredulous.

 

Oh for the days of Therapist.

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

24 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

No your point was nonsense. As the majority of them are.

 

There's no counter argument to fuddery i'm afraid.

Elmer Harriot

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

31 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

No your point was nonsense. As the majority of them are.

 

There's no counter argument to fuddery i'm afraid.

[Roxy Hearts]

2 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

The deshackalying of 2 unions. Scottish Nationalists pretend Scottish independence is about freedom and self rule but the rush to rejoin the EU tells you it's actually about hatred of all things English.

I've got English family and friends and think England is a great country. Most English politicians are grade A wallopers though.

 

I've got problems with some Scots!

[pablo]

17 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I've got English family and friends and think England is a great country. Most English politicians are grade A wallopers though.

 

I've got problems with some Scots!

 

Well done on referring to those who see things differently to you as Scots. That's progress.

[manaliveits105]

2 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Love how anything you don't agree with is trolling. No counter argument, obviously incapable of stringing one together.

Fair comment 

[OTT]

5 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

The deshackalying of 2 unions. Scottish Nationalists pretend Scottish independence is about freedom and self rule but the rush to rejoin the EU tells you it's actually about hatred of all things English.

 

This is so bloody lazy

 

Rejoining the EU

Self rule and joining the EU isn't a strange position. You wouldn't seriously argue that France, Italy, Spain, Germany or Portugal aren't Independent countries? The dynamic between them and the EU is totally different to us and the UK. We don't hold any meaningful power, EU members can veto. In the UK we can scream till we're blue in the face but if England want it, England get it. Thats just the way it is. My opinion is that its democratically unsustainable. Beyond that, Independence does not equal EU membership, its a decision that would need to be taken as a country again. For example, EFTA (European Free Trade Association) currently has many of the benefits of EU membership such as freedom of movement, as well as actually having a free trade deal with the UK. Unlike the EU membership could be achieved inside a year (likely 3-6 months) and there are no barriers to membership. 

 

Hatred of all things English

Complete and utter bollocks. Yessers are acutely aware that they're held to an impossible standard by the media and unionists. You're all desperate to prove that there is some sort of anti English conspiracy at the heart of the yes movement so it can be dismissed as 'blood and soil nationalism', but it couldn't be further from the truth. Many English people moving to Scotland are moving to Scotland to get out of the right wing nightmare that has been created south of the border. We want to convert those folks to voting yes and many of them actually are. If there was any hint of genuine anti English sentiment within the yes camp, we'd be pissing in the wind with the English vote, yet there is an English Scots for Yes group that has done some great work in convincing folks moving here from down south that independence is the best way forward. Independence will not and cannot be won by bigotry. Genuinely, the only talk of Independence = hatred of English folk is narrow minded lazy unionists that instead of attempting to justify this shambles of a union would rather make laughable accusations in the hope that mud eventually sticks. 

[jambomjm74]

9 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

The beauty of this thread is the yoons now knowing that they're in the minority on this site. It's joyous watching them slowly descend into rabidity as they cling onto any semblance of their dying union.

Sorry but that’s not true .. what is true is that nationalists are louder … why would you reply to “yoons” and other nonsense… 

just check Edinburgh voting patterns. 
The silent majority 
 

[jack D and coke]

15 minutes ago, jonesy said:

So which of those policies do you see as the SNP not trying to play a greater role in the lives of the population while not necessarily improving things? Cos I don't see any.

Apart from covid which affected the entire planet what ones have affected me or you?

Micro managing your life you said.
It really isn't is it…

 

[Boab]

31 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

Sorry but that’s not true .. what is true is that nationalists are louder … why would you reply to “yoons” and other nonsense… 

just check Edinburgh voting patterns. 
The silent majority 
 

He said the minority on this site. 

Have a look at the poll. It's not moved since the start of it.

He is bang on.

[jambomjm74]

Just now, Boab said:

He said the minority on this site. 

Have a look at the poll. It's not moved since the start of it.

He is bang on.

Has every member on this site voted.. only 300. 

I ain’t and wouldn’t as it’s a pointless question … many would avoid as it’s just not on their radar. 

The thread does attract more in favour  that certainly doesn’t mean that more are pro Indy on JKB… a fairer representation would be Edinburgh voting patterns. 

No he isn’t bang on and neither are you. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, jambomjm74 said:

Has every member on this site voted.. only 300. 

I ain’t and wouldn’t as it’s a pointless question … many would avoid as it’s just not on their radar. 

The thread does attract more in favour  that certainly doesn’t mean that more are pro Indy on JKB… a fairer representation would be Edinburgh voting patterns. 

No he isn’t bang on and neither are you. 

The thread attracts those who feel strongest about it for the most part, there does appear to be more independence support in that number.

[jambomjm74]

Just now, Smithee said:

The thread attracts those who feel strongest about it for the most part, there does appear to be more independence support in that number.

Those attracted to an independence poll … I’d suggest would be supporters of the poll and yes voters. 
Scottish polling is broadly 50/50 (is being generous) that includes Glasgow and Dundee who were always in favour of yes but not Edinburgh which was and has always been a No.