Should Scotland be an independent country?

[Pans Jambo]

2 hours ago, That thing you do said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/business-62406689?fbclid=IwAR3eA7sAikYKy-D4_r-7BMJAG4ZqPysqzX9N4PALxy4hnesQiDrPcMpmpFc

 

13.3% inflation in UK. Recession all of 2023

 

And for those of you who are fans of the status quo living standards are going "down down" while Captain Truss or Sunak are "Burning Bridges" blaming France for their Brexit mess.

 

Whats depressing is someone thinking Rees Mogg plus the chaos of the UK generally is "ok" and best Scotland can do.

 

Sorry but I only need to look at UK v Norway handling of oil wealth to know Scotland would do better.

Well said but alas, nobody will take this on. Mention Sturgeon though...

[Pans Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

But you'll see council tax still exists. I live in a £300k plus valued flat paying low band Council tax. 

Yeah, I've heard all that before. You want your council tax raised aye?

 

"Use the powers that you have, raise taxes up to pay for vital services"

 

"Scotland is the most taxed part of the UK"

 

"Why is Scotland's tax higher than the rest of the UK"?

 

Rinse, repeat.

[pablo]

3 hours ago, Dazo said:

England or Scotland don’t get a vote, it’s a uk vote. The uk gets the government the uk votes for. Doesn’t matter how much you hate the tories those simple pretty basic facts never change. 

 

Spot on. It's not even difficult to understand.  

[Unknown user]

24 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Spot on. It's not even difficult to understand.  

 

Aye it's so complex we simply can't understand it

 

Is it really too difficult a concept to comprehend? Or is it just a different perspective on the same thing, but based on the premise that it doesn't matter that Scotland has no say.

 

Scotland votes, but England decides.

[Roxy Hearts]

4 hours ago, Dazo said:

All debatable and absolutely possible. The only thing 100% though is the first government after independence will be a snp government. 

 

I'll be voting Conservative if we achieve independence but with a small c or my vote is up for grabs except Labour!

[pablo]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Aye it's so complex we simply can't understand it

 

Is it really too difficult a concept to comprehend? Or is it just a different perspective on the same thing, but based on the premise that it doesn't matter that Scotland has no say.

 

Scotland votes, but England decides.

 

 

Scotland doesn't vote though. It's a UK election and each UK citizen has one vote. England doesn't vote either. The UK is a unitary sovereign state. It's not a question of perspective at all.

 

[Unknown user]

Yeah but Scotland isn't a sovereign state dur

 

Aye, that's the point.

[manaliveits105]

Indyref2 addict Nicola Sturgeon must end Scotland’s drug deaths nightmare

Independence may be the drug of her choice, but it’s about time the First Minister gave it up to stop more Scots dying

 

That one of the country’s most dedicated campaigners has accused Nicola Sturgeon’s government of caring more about a new independence referendum than ending Scotland’s drug deaths nightmare is one of the most devastating attacks yet on the First Minister

 

well said 

[Dazo]

4 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Scotland doesn't vote though. It's a UK election and each UK citizen has one vote. England doesn't vote either. The UK is a unitary sovereign state. It's not a question of perspective at all.

 

I wouldn’t bother, a lost soul that one with every possible Scottish chip on his shoulder. He won’t accept a single thing whether factually correct or not if it any way impacts the cause. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Dazo said:

I wouldn’t bother, a lost soul that one with every possible Scottish chip on his shoulder. He won’t accept a single thing whether factually correct or not if it any way impacts the cause. 

Aw dazo don't sneer when you type, it's not pretty!

[pablo]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Yeah but Scotland isn't a sovereign state dur

 

Aye, that's the point.

 

It's exactly the point.

 

That's how democracy works around the world. 

[periodictabledancer]

3 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Indyref2 addict Nicola Sturgeon must end Scotland’s drug deaths nightmare

Independence may be the drug of her choice, but it’s about time the First Minister gave it up to stop more Scots dying

 

That one of the country’s most dedicated campaigners has accused Nicola Sturgeon’s government of caring more about a new independence referendum than ending Scotland’s drug deaths nightmare is one of the most devastating attacks yet on the First Minister

 

well said 

She leads a party founded nearly a century ago whose entire raison d'etre is independence. That's not going to change and people will simply have to accept that simple fact. 

In the meantime I'm sure we can all look forward to a Westminster led review of the UK led policy on drugs. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

It's exactly the point.

 

That's how democracy works around the world. 

 

If no one in Scotland bothered voting at the next general election, it would make no difference to who the party in power is.

 

That's how shit democracy works.

[pablo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

If no one in Scotland bothered voting at the next general election, it would make no difference to who the party in power is.

 

That's how shit democracy works.

 

Completely irrelevant.

 

Then no Scottish MPs would be returned to Westminster. Or the sitting MP would remain? 

 

If Scotland was a sovereign state, equal to the UK. Shetland and Orkney would get the government the central belt voted for.

 

 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Completely irrelevant.

 

Then no Scottish MPs would be returned to Westminster. Or the sitting MP would remain? 

 

If Scotland was a sovereign state, equal to the UK. Shetland and Orkney would get the government the central belt voted for.

 

That'll be why you're not into freedom if you see that as being irrelevant.

 

Me, I'd like a meaningful vote. 

[pablo]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

That'll be why you're not into freedom if you see that as being irrelevant.

 

Me, I'd like a meaningful vote. 

 

You have the same vote as everyone else in the UK. 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

You have the same vote as everyone else in the UK. 

Cool

[Nucky Thompson]

19 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

You have the same vote as everyone else in the UK. 

Exactly and Scotland helped boot the Tories out in 1997.

 

The 1997 general election in Scotland: Regional & Federal Studies: Vol 7, No 3 (tandfonline.com)

 

 

[Unknown user]

15 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Exactly and Scotland helped boot the Tories out in 1997.

 

The 1997 general election in Scotland: Regional & Federal Studies: Vol 7, No 3 (tandfonline.com)

 

 

 

Even ignoring that you're talking a quarter century ago, we got a Labour government because England voted Labour.

[Nucky Thompson]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Even ignoring that you're talking a quarter century ago, we got a Labour government because England voted Labour.

 

18 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Even ignoring that you're talking a quarter century ago, we got a Labour government because England voted Labour.

Scotland voted Labour too

[Unknown user]

11 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

 

Scotland voted Labour too

 

I know.

Scotland voted Labour the time before too, but because England voted Tory, we got Tory.

 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

Completely irrelevant.

 

Then no Scottish MPs would be returned to Westminster. Or the sitting MP would remain? 

 

If Scotland was a sovereign state, equal to the UK. Shetland and Orkney would get the government the central belt voted for.

 

 

It would be all one country voting! Don't think it's quite the same. 

[manaliveits105]

Jacob Rees-Mogg has told Sky News that 'all Nicola Sturgeon does is campaign to break the union', adding that she is 'very often wrong' and is 'always moaning'.
 

nails her on education , health and public services on which he says she should be held to account 

 

hear hear Jacob 

huzzah !!

[The Mighty Thor]

5 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Jacob Rees-Mogg has told Sky News that 'all Nicola Sturgeon does is campaign to break the union', adding that she is 'very often wrong' and is 'always moaning'.
 

nails her on education , health and public services on which he says she should be held to account 

 

hear hear Jacob 

huzzah !!

Leader of a party who's raison d'etre is independence keeps talking about independence?

 

Sharp guy is Jacob. 

 

I can see why you'd vote for him. 

[Roxy Hearts]

33 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Leader of a party who's raison d'etre is independence keeps talking about independence?

 

Sharp guy is Jacob. 

 

I can see why you'd vote for him. 

Anyone that listens to that moron Mogg is a moron themselves. That gormless, insufferable excuse for a politician hasn't done one thing to benefit his inglorious union! 

[Guest]

Pathetic attention seeker

 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

39 minutes ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

Pathetic attention seeker

 

 

She's not wrong though, maybe shouldn't have said it, but she's not wrong. Willie Rennie is a weapons grade arsehole.

[Boab]

32 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

She's not wrong though, maybe shouldn't have said it, but she's not wrong. Willie Rennie is a weapons grade arsehole.

Poor Willie ! 😂

I can't bring myself to dislike the guy.

My missus, during the debates before the last SG election, thought it was a shame because she thought they were making fun of him ! 😂

That's the way I view him..and his party.

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

Pathetic attention seeker

 

 

Sturgeon has no class and should be nowhere near leading the Scottish administration 

[SectionDJambo]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Leader of a party who's raison d'etre is independence keeps talking about independence?

 

Sharp guy is Jacob. 

 

I can see why you'd vote for him. 

I find it quite remarkable why anyone would give any time to listening to Rees Mogg. He is spectacularly inept himself, but, then again, only gets things wrong for the "right reasons". As for moaning, what has he been doing to deflect from the reality of Brexit recently? Moaning about how the French are out to get us and people should consider going on holiday to Portugal instead. He maybe shouldn't accuse anyone else of making several mistakes and moaning a lot.

As for his comments about how the Scottish government has failed in education and running the NHS in Scotland, can he show us a shining light from his government's record on those issues in England? Nope.

He's one of these people who thinks he is smarter than the riff raff of the common man, and we should believe him because he dresses like he's in a Dickens novel and has a posh accent. He's a fraudster. 

I'm no fan of Sturgeon, but the likes of Rees Mogg and his English National Party within the Conservative Party, are the biggest vote winners that Sturgeon could hope for. If him and his chums were running the country efficiently, properly and fairly, the argument for independence probably wouldn't be as much in the public domain.

 

[Dazo]

Glorious double standards in full flow 😂

[Boab]

1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said:

I find it quite remarkable why anyone would give any time to listening to Rees Mogg. He is spectacularly inept himself, but, then again, only gets things wrong for the "right reasons". As for moaning, what has he been doing to deflect from the reality of Brexit recently? Moaning about how the French are out to get us and people should consider going on holiday to Portugal instead. He maybe shouldn't accuse anyone else of making several mistakes and moaning a lot.

As for his comments about how the Scottish government has failed in education and running the NHS in Scotland, can he show us a shining light from his government's record on those issues in England? Nope.

He's one of these people who thinks he is smarter than the riff raff of the common man, and we should believe him because he dresses like he's in a Dickens novel and has a posh accent. He's a fraudster. 

I'm no fan of Sturgeon, but the likes of Rees Mogg and his English National Party within the Conservative Party, are the biggest vote winners that Sturgeon could hope for. If him and his chums were running the country efficiently, properly and fairly, the argument for independence probably wouldn't be as much in the public domain.

 

This.

Don't confuse wealth and privilege with intelligence.

The man's a moron.

[Nookie Bear]

Curious to see what a post-Independence Scotland would look like, politically.

 

Voting YES because of Boris, rees-Mogg or the Tories in general is not really a solid enough reason for leaving imo. Surely the best option is to push for a change to the electoral system (although this currently benefits the SNP massively, ironically)

 

Voting NO because of Sturgeon is equally silly because the SNP will surely undergo massive upheaval post-Indy.  Will it see a resurgence of Labour? Would also be interesting to see how Scottish Conservatives fare, as they gained 25% of the vote in 2019 up here (180k more votes than labour).

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

Pathetic attention seeker

 

 

Wow 

[jack D and coke]

You have to admire the levels of obsession from some people.
Since Truss uttered those words there’s likely been some team of obsessives doggedly going through every interview NS has gave and every FMQ’s known to man looking for this  

It’s pretty impressive tbh. 
Let’s not also get away from the fact it was the ignore statement that people were on about not this attention seeking nonsense. 
Swing and miss again I guess troops…

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

You have to admire the levels of obsession from some people.
Since Truss uttered those words there’s likely been some team of obsessives doggedly going through every interview NS has gave and every FMQ’s known to man looking for this  

It’s pretty impressive tbh. 
Let’s not also get away from the fact it was the ignore statement that people were on about not this attention seeking nonsense. 
Swing and miss again I guess troops…

Attention seekers shouldn’t be ignored ? 

[Boab]

3 hours ago, Dazo said:

Glorious double standards in full flow 😂

A bit, D.

It was noticeable that it was  Swinney and not NS who condemned straight away.

NS knew she couldn't because of that clip. Maybe the idiot, Truss, was advised to bait her on the clip to see if she'd bite.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Boab

[Dazo]

Just now, Boab said:

A bit, D.

It was noticeable that is was Swinney and NS who condemned straight away.

NS knew she couldn't because of that clip. Maybe the idiot, Truss, was advised to bait her on the clip to see if she'd bite.

Definitely, it’s just a game to these arseholes. Genuinely they couldn’t give a shit about us. 

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Attention seekers shouldn’t be ignored ? 

Wasn’t my point though…😐

[Dazo]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Wasn’t my point though…😐

😂

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Boab said:

A bit, D.

It was noticeable that it was  Swinney and not NS who condemned straight away.

NS knew she couldn't because of that clip. Maybe the idiot, Truss, was advised to bait her on the clip to see if she'd bite.

You think truss watches some FMQ? I can’t remember who said it but even top Labour MSP’s said when they spoke about anything happening up here when Labour ran it in holyrood Tony Blair used to stare out the window. Couldn’t have cared less. 
Swinney is possibly a decent enough bloke but he’s so lacking in any charisma as well. 
They really should have just said nothing imo Truss is doing a top job on herself without any assistance. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

You think truss watches some FMQ? I can’t remember who said it but even top Labour MSP’s said when they spoke about anything happening up here when Labour ran it in holyrood Tony Blair used to stare out the window. Couldn’t have cared less. 
Swinney is possibly a decent enough bloke but he’s so lacking in any charisma as well. 
They really should have just said nothing imo Truss is doing a top job on herself without any assistance. 

Her getting the gig would be tremendous news.

[That thing you do]

Sunak saying he fixed levelling up formulas to benefit Tory Shires.

 

A pound in Croydon is worth more than a pound in strathclyde

 

 

"Im ok with the status quo"

 

Im not. 

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

6 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

You have to admire the levels of obsession from some people.
Since Truss uttered those words there’s likely been some team of obsessives doggedly going through every interview NS has gave and every FMQ’s known to man looking for this  

It’s pretty impressive tbh. 
Let’s not also get away from the fact it was the ignore statement that people were on about not this attention seeking nonsense. 
Swing and miss again I guess troops…

If Nicola Sturgeon was a nobody like Mogg they wouldn't give a dog turd. The fact that she's a very capable, intelligent woman and wins votes is the issue for the morons. 

[Pans Jambo]

3 hours ago, That thing you do said:

Sunak saying he fixed levelling up formulas to benefit Tory Shires.

 

A pound in Croydon is worth more than a pound in strathclyde

 

 

"Im ok with the status quo"

 

Im not. 

 

 

Saying what we all knew anyway. Take money from the needy and give it the wealthy. Its the tory way. 
Theyve stolen the money, changed the laws, asset stripped, lied and now theyre admitting it. 
 

Whats wrong with people

looking to stay a part of this union? Something wanting about them!

[manaliveits105]

Poverty relief should be Sturgeon’s priority - not Indyref2 navel-gazing

Scotland’s poorest communities, killing themselves with alcohol, need more of the SNP’s time and resources and fewer empty promises

[OTT]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Saying what we all knew anyway. Take money from the needy and give it the wealthy. Its the tory way. 
Theyve stolen the money, changed the laws, asset stripped, lied and now theyre admitting it. 
 

Whats wrong with people

looking to stay a part of this union? Something wanting about them!

 

It really is vile isn't it? 

 

Pure shameless selfishness from the Torys. 

 

I cannot fathom why so many folk are entrenched in the view that the Union/status quo is the way to go. The standard of living in the UK versus Ireland or mainland Europe is shocking and we're entirely at the mercy of a voter base that clearly hold different views to the voters in Scotland, We've not voted Tory since 1955 and have had to lurch through the thatcher years for a brief restbite of Blair and Brown who had to swing to the right to actually get elected in England. We're watching Starmer attempt to poorly imitate that whilst selling out the very Unions on which his party is founded. I don't see brief moments of labour governments being a viable reason to veto independence.  

 

Things do not get better for Scotland within the Union. Sunak is on record saying he wants to end the 'devolve and forget' culture (getting them to devolve anything seems to be like getting a derby win out of hibs ) which says to me the view of the tory party is that devolution needs to be rolled back and rendered toothless. We've already saw Truss who is the bookies favourite show absolutely zero respect to the position of first minister (to both Scotland and Wales). I think the Tory's genuinely view Scotland and Wales as possessions which is such an unbelievably poisonous mindset and if we're not, then we deserve a right to choose if post Brexit this is really what we as a nation want. 

 

I am feeling a bit like I'm losing patience with no voters. It doesn't matter how bad life gets within the Union, in their heads Independence means we somehow become the Ethiopia of Europe. Its ridiculous and depressing.

[dobmisterdobster]

2 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

If Nicola Sturgeon was a nobody like Mogg they wouldn't give a dog turd. The fact that she's a very capable, intelligent woman and wins votes is the issue for the morons. 

 

It's a pity she is more concerned with her public image and being a social media influencer than being the First Minister.

[Roxy Hearts]

14 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

It's a pity she is more concerned with her public image and being a social media influencer than being the First Minister.

Absolute garbage! You're just another bandwagon unionist. Same old crap. She has wound up the disgusting, anti Scottish establishment so much that she  really has them greeting. More power to her and I hope that f wit Truss has a TV meeting with her!

 

Sturgeon is flawed like most politicians but I'd rather have her looking after our interests than any f wit unionist! 

[Roxy Hearts]

5 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

More like the fact she's a bitter, incapable woman winning votes from morons.

Don't see it that way Jonesy. All I see just now is bitter words against her from bitter, unionist morons like Truss, Mogg etc. Absolute anti Scottish f wits! There's an underlying racist element from these English Nationalists. IMO.