Should Scotland be an independent country?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I don't know why Scots bother with Hoose Jocks. They will always be traitors. Not long til we rid ourselves of them.

Sincerely hope your brand of racism/xenophobia isn’t what an Indy Scotland becomes

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

Pesky English thieves are your words, not mine!

 

I'm just saying, Scotland's a rich country in the best way, with natural resources.

Don't bother with them. It's the only patter they have left. Trying to embarrass folk into voting to stay. 

 

Brexit England got rid of the pesky French and Germans. Or does that only count if you're Scottish. 🤔

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Sincerely hope your brand of racism/xenophobia isn’t what an Indy Scotland becomes

I'm talking about so called Scots. So explain your comment, liar.

[Ked]

8 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Energy is clearly the primary reason for the cost of living crisis and attempting to look further is straw clutching.  Its that obvious that its not worth debating.

 

As for ScExit I was merely pointing out the contradictions in the arguments here for independence.  Why would you be outraged at Brexit but be all for cutting ties with your biggest trading partner?  If you want your independence so badly, why are you so desperate for Brussels to run the country instead of Westminster?

 

The other argument seems to be that the Tories will win the next election.  I'll repeat what I said before - there is next to no chance of them getting back in.  They are toxic nationwide and a Labour landslide should be inevitable.

Energy if Scotland leaves the national grid should be much cheaper.

90% or close to it is renewable.

 

I'm not so sure about the Tories bud but for me that's irrelevant.

 

[Ked]

14 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Anyone making economic predictions 30 years ahead is writing fables. There are massive challenges for humanity in the next 30 years and the political constructs of what Holyrood has control of will have little bearing on those.

100%.

 

 

[Ked]

6 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Sincerely hope your brand of racism/xenophobia isn’t what an Indy Scotland becomes

It won't.

What hopefully it will mean is his juvenile pish is put to side as we have only ourselves to blame.

 

[Ked]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Pesky English thieves are your words, not mine!

 

I'm just saying, Scotland's a rich country in the best way, with natural resources.

It really is.

It's also a country we'll able to afford itself.

It cannot be overstated the wealth of our natural resource.

Something to their credit the SNP sought to protect.

I really don't think we appreciate the water that pours from our taps.

 

[Ked]

17 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I don't know why Scots bother with Hoose Jocks. They will always be traitors. Not long til we rid ourselves of them.

You are so full of shite.

Grow the fek up.

[Boab]

2 hours ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Just to pick up on something that gets lost a lot of the time - not everyone who votes SNP wants independence, the SNP have even acknowledged that in the past (though they now seem to be conveniently forgetting it).  

Never vote SNP but voted Yes, and will do again. There will be many in this boat. 

I think England's path is irreversible, and I don't like where it's going.

There is an opportunity for all parties to lead after a period of time if Indy was achieved. 

You'll never hear them saying it but I'll bet you they're thinking it !

 

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Just to pick up on something that gets lost a lot of the time - not everyone who votes SNP wants independence, the SNP have even acknowledged that in the past (though they now seem to be conveniently forgetting it).  

There won't be many who vote SNP while also being against independence.

 

I bet that there are many more who support independence but won't vote SNP.

[ri Alban]

If you need persuaded to vote for your country, you're not worth the energy. I'd rather deport you but I'm not in charge. Maybe someone will get elected who will.

 

 

Anyway your treachery from 2014 is about to be rectified. 

 

 

Never let them forget or forgive what they did to Scotland.

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by ri Alban

[Lord Montpelier]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

If you need persuaded to vote for your country, you're not worth the energy. I'd rather deport you but I'm not in charge. Maybe someone will get elected who will.

 

 

Anyway your treachery from 2014 is about to be rectified. 

 

 

Never let them forget or forgive what they did to Scotland.

 

Your a bit of an extremist, aren't you ?

[ri Alban]

The enemy within , you failed. 

 

Tick Tock!!!

[Japan Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Your a bit of an extremist, aren't you ?

 

Just a bit? 

[pablo]

40 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

So who determines when the numbers suit your argument and what is that number? 50%? 

 

Not sure but the majority of us are happy enough with not having a second referendum and Westminster respecting the will of the majority. I believe the SNP require 60% to amend their own constitution?

 

40 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Unfortunately we don't have a written constitution so being unconstitutional is a movable feast. 

That's nonsense. It's FPTP. MPs are not returned on a 50% +1 basis so that argument doesn't stand up.

 

Using a GE for a referendum is ridiculous, I was pointing out the absurdity of it. Why would the FM get away with dictating to the electorate what a GE is about to them? It's about electing the Westminster government. Votes will be cast for a number of reasons. Let's see what the electoral commission thinks after they've picked themselves off the floor laughing.

 

40 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Trust me, there's a lot of people out there who find the lying, corruption and noncing quite frankly toxic. Hence the reason we want no part of it. 

 

A Westminster party just emptied a nonce in several hours. Whereas six years after one of your own nonces felt up a young boy in a pub, he was still around being protected by the inner circle.

 

Justice moves faster in Westminster, maybe that's why the SNP want no part of it? To turn a blind eye to their own noncing for longer.

[JudyJudyJudy]

52 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Sincerely hope your brand of racism/xenophobia isn’t what an Indy Scotland becomes

It’s. Awful 

31 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

If you need persuaded to vote for your country, you're not worth the energy. I'd rather deport you but I'm not in charge. Maybe someone will get elected who will.

 

 

Anyway your treachery from 2014 is about to be rectified. 

 

 

Never let them forget or forgive what they did to Scotland.

 

Shameful comment 

29 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Your a bit of an extremist, aren't you ?

“ a bit “ ! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Not sure but the majority of us are happy enough with not having a second referendum and Westminster respecting the will of the majority. I believe the SNP require 60% to amend their own constitution?

 

 

Using a GE for a referendum is ridiculous, I was pointing out the absurdity of it. Why would the FM get away with dictating to the electorate what a GE is about to them? It's about electing the Westminster government. Votes will be cast for a number of reasons. Let's see what the electoral commission thinks after they've picked themselves off the floor laughing.

 

 

A Westminster party just emptied a nonce in several hours. Whereas six years after one of your own nonces felt up a young boy in a pub, he was still around being protected by the inner circle.

 

Justice moves faster in Westminster, maybe that's why the SNP want no part of it? To turn a blind eye to their own noncing for longer.

All good points 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

59 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I'm talking about so called Scots. So explain your comment, liar.

You’re to the right of Hitler

[Cruyff]

There should be no argument against Scotland having a 2nd Indy Ref. It's democracy in action. 

 

Sturgeon knows she won't get permission anyway and she'll be quite happy about that. It's win win for her. She appeased her party by calling one, it inevitably gets rejected which will give the SNP another boost and she can continue in power. 

[The Mighty Thor]

38 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Not sure but the majority of us are happy enough with not having a second referendum and Westminster respecting the will of the majority. I believe the SNP require 60% to amend their own constitution?

No one is talking about the SNP constitution as fine well you know. 

When was the vote taken on whether Scots want another Independence vote that backs up your claim thst a majority don't want it? You've just made that up. 

38 minutes ago, pablo said:

Using a GE for a referendum is ridiculous, I was pointing out the absurdity of it. Why would the FM get away with dictating to the electorate what a GE is about to them? It's about electing the Westminster government. Votes will be cast for a number of reasons. Let's see what the electoral commission thinks after they've picked themselves off the floor laughing.

It is indeed and Scotland returned 45 MPs out of 59 seats. 

The electoral commission have just been castrated by Johnsons government to the point where they are now irrelevant. As is your point. 

 

38 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

A Westminster party just emptied a nonce in several hours. Whereas six years after one of your own nonces felt up a young boy in a pub, he was still around being protected by the inner circle.

 

Justice moves faster in Westminster, maybe that's why the SNP want no part of it? To turn a blind eye to their own noncing for longer.

 I assume you mean the deputy chief whip who resigned and up to right now has not been 'emptied' at all. In fact this is his second such offence and guess what? Spaffer says there's nothing to see here and the matter is closed. Fun fact - this guy had to have a chaperone follow him around to prevent him getting into 'awkward situations'. Again. 

 

So your rather lengthy post is utterly devoid of fact, indeed its mostly stuff you've just made up. 

 

My apologies. The news has just broken that the Tory nonce has just had the whip removed. 

 

Only two thirds of your post is made up stuff then. 👍

Edited July 1, 2022 by The Mighty Thor

[Lord Montpelier]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Just a bit? 

I'm surprised he / she continues to enjoy a platform for their comments here. Usually goes quiet when called out for it though. 

[LarrysRightFoot]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

If you need persuaded to vote for your country, you're not worth the energy. I'd rather deport you but I'm not in charge. Maybe someone will get elected who will.

 

 

Anyway your treachery from 2014 is about to be rectified. 

 

 

Never let them forget or forgive what they did to Scotland.

 

I think those who vote against independence do so as they think it’s the right thing for their country. 

[LarrysRightFoot]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

There won't be many who vote SNP while also being against independence.

 

I bet that there are many more who support independence but won't vote SNP.

Potentially, its something the SNP have acknowledged in the past though. 
 

FWIW I can’t, outwith wanting independence, understand why someone would vote SNP, their record is poor and getting poorer. 

[Lord Montpelier]

3 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

I think those who vote against independence do so as they think it’s the right thing for their country. 

Treacherous behaviour. According to the extremist anyway. 

[frankblack]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

Energy if Scotland leaves the national grid should be much cheaper.

90% or close to it is renewable.

 

I'm not so sure about the Tories bud but for me that's irrelevant.

 

 

Nope.  Scotland would need to invest in nuclear stations for when there isn't enough wind so I think your logic is wrong.

[vegas-voss]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Nope.  Scotland would need to invest in nuclear stations for when there isn't enough wind so I think your logic is wrong.

Not enough wind ? 

 

We live in Scotland it's windy as **** nearly all year off the coast even more so and we would also have waves

[Ked]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Nope.  Scotland would need to invest in nuclear stations for when there isn't enough wind so I think your logic is wrong.

Oh come on.

The technological possibilities are endless.

As is the increasing ability for storage.

Let's not try to fit bad argument to suit what you want.

Already we produce renewable energy at an impressive rate.

That's only going to improve.

One minute the argument is oil is dead the next it's renewable are a non starter.

 

We should compile a list of reasons why independence won't work.

Currency=red herring

Energy=positive

Trade =difficult 

I'd like to know other areas of governing ourselves that those opposed are concerned with.

Not just for arguments sake but I'd like to know.

I honestly fail to see why we wouldn't.

I understand that some feel affinity to the Union .

I've no wish to slag folk off for that.

But If that's so just admit it.

 

[Ked]

7 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Not enough wind ? 

 

We live in Scotland it's windy as **** nearly all year off the coast even more so and we would also have waves

The current figures are all the proof.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

57 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I'm surprised he / she continues to enjoy a platform for their comments here. Usually goes quiet when called out for it though. 

Yes he seems to be rather manic today . Earlier he was Calling out respectable tennis players as war criminals as well as well as the issue of decent Scot’s who have the cheek to have an opposing view to him regarding Scotlands future . He goes on a rampage like this now and then , then 

“ leaves “ For a few weeks . Taking a 

“ time out “ 😎

34 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Nope.  Scotland would need to invest in nuclear stations for when there isn't enough wind so I think your logic is wrong.

There’s enough wind on this to last us a generation or two 

[Malinga the Swinga]

42 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Treacherous behaviour. According to the extremist anyway. 

As someone born and married in Scotland, married to a Scottish girl and three Scottish children, I find it tedious in the extreme that someone with as little personal intelligence questions my Scottishness.

I genuinely think he's been dumped by someone who was Scottish anti independence, either boy or girl, and blames them for whatever has happened to his life.

Either that or he's a troll.

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

As someone born and married in Scotland, married to a Scottish girl and three Scottish children, I find it tedious in the extreme that someone with as little personal intelligence questions my Scottishness.

I genuinely think he's been dumped by someone who was Scottish anti independence, either boy or girl, and blames them for whatever has happened to his life.

Either that or he's a troll.

I just find his intolerance regarding others opinion about this issue rather converging really . In 2014 I was pissed off with the No voters but I didn’t view them as “ traitors “ I felt they have made an error of Judgement but respected their right to this and respected the result , whilst unhappy about it as we live in a democracy and should respect this . 

[Lord Montpelier]

31 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

As someone born and married in Scotland, married to a Scottish girl and three Scottish children, I find it tedious in the extreme that someone with as little personal intelligence questions my Scottishness.

I genuinely think he's been dumped by someone who was Scottish anti independence, either boy or girl, and blames them for whatever has happened to his life.

Either that or he's a troll.

Gut feel is the extremist means every word he / she says. Should be emptied before going too far, with some of what I've read being very borderline. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

26 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I just find his intolerance regarding others opinion about this issue rather converging really . In 2014 I was pissed off with the No voters but I didn’t view them as “ traitors “ I felt they have made an error of Judgement but respected their right to this and respected the result , whilst unhappy about it as we live in a democracy and should respect this . 

Meant “ concerning “ ‘ not “ converging “ 

[XB52]

6 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Gut feel is the extremist means every word he / she says. Should be emptied before going too far, with some of what I've read being very borderline. 

Not got a clue why he hasn't been banned. His posts are embarrassing, although I only see the ones quoted as he was on my ignore list even before manwithaniqof5. Said it before, I really hope he is a unionist troll, either that or he really is a brain dead racist

[Lord Montpelier]

Just now, XB52 said:

Not got a clue why he hasn't been banned. His posts are embarrassing, although I only see the ones quoted as he was on my ignore list even before manwithaniqof5. Said it before, I really hope he is a unionist troll, either that or he really is a brain dead racist

Correct. He's not a troll , he's an extremist, and should be punted for his xenophobic antagonist nonsence. 

 

Let's see if he defends him / herself. Doubt it

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Correct. He's not a troll , he's an extremist, and should be punted for his xenophobic antagonist nonsence. 

 

Let's see if he defends him / herself. Doubt it

 

Then report his posts, this thread isn't about ri.

 

Why shouldn't Scotland be independent?

[Lord Montpelier]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Then report his posts, this thread isn't about ri.

 

Why shouldn't Scotland be independent?

Your right, it's not about Ri. But he's not doing a great job of promoting the independence agenda, im sure you would agree ?

[Unknown user]

Just now, Lord Montpelier said:

Your right, it's not about Ri. But he's not doing a great job of promoting the independence agenda, im sure you would agree ?

 

I don't care, I'm interested in the topic at hand, it's not about him.

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

Oh come on.

The technological possibilities are endless.

As is the increasing ability for storage.

Let's not try to fit bad argument to suit what you want.

Already we produce renewable energy at an impressive rate.

That's only going to improve.

One minute the argument is oil is dead the next it's renewable are a non starter.

 

The technology isn't there and you need a backup such as nuclear or battery storage.  Nuclear seems to be the better option.

 

Here are the pros and cons of different energy sources.  I picked the BBC site but all pretty much say the same:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zbsdmp3/revision/4

 

1 hour ago, Ked said:

We should compile a list of reasons why independence won't work.

Currency=red herring

Energy=positive

Trade =difficult 

I'd like to know other areas of governing ourselves that those opposed are concerned with.

Not just for arguments sake but I'd like to know.

I honestly fail to see why we wouldn't.

I understand that some feel affinity to the Union .

I've no wish to slag folk off for that.

But If that's so just admit it.

 

 

Desperate stuff.  How about compiling a list of details the SNP have committed to on the financial wellbeing of the country post independence.

[Lord Montpelier]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I don't care, I'm interested in the topic at hand, it's not about him.

So you support the Extremists views on independence ? 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

So you support the Extremists views on independence ? 

 

No, I assume we're all grown up enough to ignore extent views on all sides.

[Lord Montpelier]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

No, I assume we're all grown up enough to ignore extent views on all sides.

I did think so to be fair. What we are basically saying is the Extremist is on his / her own with their opinions and should be banned from here. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I did think so to be fair. What we are basically saying is the Extremist is on his / her own with their opinions and should be banned from here. 

No, I'm saying let's stop derailing a good thread.

[XB52]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

The technology isn't there and you need a backup such as nuclear or battery storage.  Nuclear seems to be the better option.

 

Scotland seems to manage fine just now and there will be no new nuclear power stations built in Scotland in my lifetime. Offshore wind and wave power will be the main power sources of the future in Scotland, along with hydro. Of course there is the small matter of our oil and gas to keep us going while renewable technology improves 

[Unknown user]

Just now, XB52 said:

Scotland seems to manage fine just now and there will be no new nuclear power stations built in Scotland in my lifetime. Offshore wind and wave power will be the main power sources of the future in Scotland, along with hydro. Of course there is the small matter of our oil and gas to keep us going while renewable technology improves 

A country that can produce it's own power and drinking water has a bright future.

[frankblack]

31 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Scotland seems to manage fine just now and there will be no new nuclear power stations built in Scotland in my lifetime. Offshore wind and wave power will be the main power sources of the future in Scotland, along with hydro. Of course there is the small matter of our oil and gas to keep us going while renewable technology improves 

 

You clearly didn't read the link or do any research on the disadvantages renewables have.

 

Sure they can be great but won't be all the time.  Even too strong a wind will shut down wind turbines let alone not enough!

[Pans Jambo]

So our current energy generating sources are not good enough/reliable enough eh? 
 

Wait a minute! Is Scotland not currently still part of the union? 

I thought Scotland generated more power than it uses currently but what do I know?

 

So its shite as part of the union and the minute we vote yes it gets EVEN WORSE and its all no more wind, massive power cuts and candles is it aye?

 

Jeezo!

Edited July 1, 2022 by Pans Jambo

[pablo]

Someone was saying several pages ago that if enough Scots want to be Independent it won't matter about anything else. It was in the context of Ireland and their modern history. I totally get that, and I also totally understand and respect the position of the likes of @Smithee and @The Mighty Thor. I disagree obviously but the belief is authentic and comes from the heart. 

 

I read this excellent book fairly recently called We don't know ourselves by Fintan O'Toole. Bloody brilliant book, the author gives his opinion on Irish history and the changes in the country through his own experience of the significant topics since partial independence from Britain. Really recommend it.

 

But it didn't resonate as being anything like Scotland or Scotland's relationship with everyone else on the island.

 

Also, just my tuppence worth, but some of the recent friction and nastiness on this thread . Bet you everyone on here would sit in the pub, having a pint and a blether about Hearts and get on just dandy.

 

 

[Ked]

3 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

The technology isn't there and you need a backup such as nuclear or battery storage.  Nuclear seems to be the better option.

 

Here are the pros and cons of different energy sources.  I picked the BBC site but all pretty much say the same:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zbsdmp3/revision/4

 

 

Desperate stuff.  How about compiling a list of details the SNP have committed to on the financial wellbeing of the country post independence.

How about we just discuss this ourselves mate.

How is it desperate?

 

It's an honest request to debate the things that concern everyone about going independent.

Not about the SNP.

While I agree they should make a case I'm up for arguing what I think.

I'm going to vote for independence and I'm happy to say why and argue the case for it.

 

The storage technology isn't there but it's coming.

Nuclear power plants are a long project.

Scotlands position on renewable energy is gathering pace.

It's just one of many positives .

 

And that's the thing Frank .

Independent Scotland is such a positive move.

In itself the very essence of recognising our responsibilty has to be the way .

If we vote to remain as part of the UK it just signals greyness a lack of ambition resigned to waiting on the giro.

It's not a good place to be.

 

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, Ked said:

How about we just discuss this ourselves mate.

How is it desperate?

 

It's an honest request to debate the things that concern everyone about going independent.

Not about the SNP.

While I agree they should make a case I'm up for arguing what I think.

I'm going to vote for independence and I'm happy to say why and argue the case for it.

 

The storage technology isn't there but it's coming.

Nuclear power plants are a long project.

Scotlands position on renewable energy is gathering pace.

It's just one of many positives .

 

And that's the thing Frank .

Independent Scotland is such a positive move.

In itself the very essence of recognising our responsibilty has to be the way .

If we vote to remain as part of the UK it just signals greyness a lack of ambition resigned to waiting on the giro.

It's not a good place to be.

 

Good stuff that👆🏼👍🏼