Should Scotland be an independent country?

[jack D and coke]

11 minutes ago, Dazo said:

They could give answers, plans or intentions from their side though without any input from the uk government. Make things a matter of fact how they intend to deal or negotiate with things that remain unanswered. I think it’s a lazy easy option from the snp not confront these things and just blame the uk government. 

They could yeah. I don’t know what you do but imagine your business partner made suggestions about any future relationship with you without any of your input because you refused to negotiate until they left. How would that likely work out? 

[Dazo]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

They could yeah. I don’t know what you do but imagine your business partner made suggestions about any future relationship with you without any of your input because you refused to negotiate until they left. How would that likely work out? 

In an already fractured partnership ? Probably wouldn’t make much difference in all honesty. 

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, Dazo said:

In an already fractured partnership ? Probably wouldn’t make much difference in all honesty. 

I don’t imagine it going that well. I was in a business partnership and it wasnt easy ironing things out before we split it. If either of us had just made suggestions without either of the others input it would’ve been carnage though. I couldn’t believe some of the shite he came out with  

[jack D and coke]

Have a wee listen to this. Hear the incredulous gasps as this boy mugs us off..

I mean who would buy energy eh  🤷🏽‍♂️

[Boab]

15 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The reason there isn’t absolutely overwhelming support for it imo is the fear factor. Weve been programmed to believe we’re subsidy junkies and will sink without trace. I’ve read some silly stuff this last few days. I saw someone on twitter last night claiming the snp would literally seize control after a Yes and they’re wouldn’t even be any elections again  

I seen on here we’d be the poorest country on earth. Yes on earth!! How has anyone been brain damaged to that extent? 
That Murdo Fraser the other day saying we still have all the benefits of North Sea oil and gas despite Nicola Sturgeons best efforts  I’m sorry but what?! They’ve been telling us it’s running oot and worthless for 40 ****ing years! The last indyref was based on oil hitting $120 a barrel it’s tipped to hit $200! I’m not basing it on oil but the lies were told to make sure we don’t think to hard about going anywhere. The British govt do not want anyone thinking it’ll all be ok. 

Correct.

Fear is the key.

I was watching a piece on the news, talking to a bunch of 18/19 year olds and they were up for Scotland going it alone. They would have been 10 or thereabouts at the last one.

The fear should be in the minds of those who think it will fail again. A new generation might put pay to that, and I hope it does. 

The UK is unsaveable, with an opposition leader who is doing a great job of doing **** all !

[Weakened Offender]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Have a wee listen to this. Hear the incredulous gasps as this boy mugs us off..

I mean who would buy energy eh  🤷🏽‍♂️

 

Absolutely incredible. 

[Dazo]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I don’t imagine it going that well. I was in a business partnership and it wasnt easy ironing things out before we split it. If either of us had just made suggestions without either of the others input it would’ve been carnage though. I couldn’t believe some of the shite he came out with  

I can’t believe sone of the shite the snp come out with 😂

 

I’m not saying it’s ideal but really what do they have to lose ? Because I’ll tell you now if a yes is returned at any future referendum( stop laughing at the back) the uk government will be utter ***** to deal with. 

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I can’t believe sone of the shite the snp come out with 😂

 

I’m not saying it’s ideal but really what do they have to lose ? Because I’ll tell you now if a yes is returned at any future referendum( stop laughing at the back) the uk government will be utter ***** to deal with. 

We joined the union to stop England harming us so we should stay to stop them harming us again? That’s the selling point isn’t it? You’ve just said that this union of the people who only want the best for us will be utter ***** to us. I don’t doubt it tbh. 

Theyre going to lose this time I’m almost certain. The last one kicked off off at Yes around 20 odd percent.

This one starts neck and neck. 

They reckon refusing a section 30 will add 5% to Yes. The union is toiling here. 

[pablo]

13 minutes ago, Boab said:

Correct.

Fear is the key.

I was watching a piece on the news, talking to a bunch of 18/19 year olds and they were up for Scotland going it alone. They would have been 10 or thereabouts at the last one.

The fear should be in the minds of those who think it will fail again. A new generation might put pay to that, and I hope it does. 

The UK is unsaveable, with an opposition leader who is doing a great job of doing **** all !

 

That might well be the case. 

 

But don't you even see the point of right now, why would the UK government have to engage with a minority viewpoint?

 

 

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

But put that aside if you can. Why would the UK government get involved now? Assuming there's no legal route to holding a referendum and given support from Independence is under 50% and way down the list of priorities of people, only 17% in a recent poll put the constitution as their number one priority, why would they?

 

Now if support was at 75% and universally accepted as the settled will of the Scottish people and it was want we wanted it wouldn't matter about pretend referendums or the decision of law officers. We would have our Independence and the UK would negotiate.

 

But that's not the case, so here we are. Some might say that the UK government is respecting the democratic wishes of the majority.

Fair comment 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

But put that aside if you can. Why would the UK government get involved now? Assuming there's no legal route to holding a referendum and given support from Independence is under 50% and way down the list of priorities of people, only 17% in a recent poll put the constitution as their number one priority, why would they?

 

Now if support was at 75% and universally accepted as the settled will of the Scottish people and it was want we wanted it wouldn't matter about pretend referendums or the decision of law officers. We would have our Independence and the UK would negotiate.

 

But that's not the case, so here we are. Some might say that the UK government is respecting the democratic wishes of the majority.

Good posting

45 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The reason there isn’t absolutely overwhelming support for it imo is the fear factor. Weve been programmed to believe we’re subsidy junkies and will sink without trace. I’ve read some silly stuff this last few days. I saw someone on twitter last night claiming the snp would literally seize control after a Yes and they’re wouldn’t even be any elections again  

I seen on here we’d be the poorest country on earth. Yes on earth!! How has anyone been brain damaged to that extent? 
That Murdo Fraser the other day saying we still have all the benefits of North Sea oil and gas despite Nicola Sturgeons best efforts  I’m sorry but what?! They’ve been telling us it’s running oot and worthless for 40 ****ing years! The last indyref was based on oil hitting $120 a barrel it’s tipped to hit $200! I’m not basing it on oil but the lies were told to make sure we don’t think to hard about going anywhere. The British govt do not want anyone thinking it’ll all be ok. 

Not sure regarding “ the fear “ factor . Maybe people are being very Astute and balancing up the pros and cons and deciding on no ? ( and yes too obviously) 

[Boab]

12 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

That might well be the case. 

 

But don't you even see the point of right now, why would the UK government have to engage with a minority viewpoint?

 

 

Depends whether you're talking about the latest poll or the last Scottish Election really.

The No vote is slightly ahead but the Scottish people at the last Election were asked to vote, or not vote, for a party who had a ref in their manifesto.

 

It's a matter of trust really. I believe the Nats when they said they would pursue another ref. They are doing what they said.

I wouldn't trust the UK government as far as I could throw them....possibly into the Thames if I done a bit of weights.

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Good posting

Not sure regarding “ the fear “ factor . Maybe people are being very Astute and balancing up the pros and cons and deciding on no ? ( and yes too obviously) 

That’s one way of looking at it.
Imo it’s fear and some of it just beyond silly. 

 

[Unknown user]

44 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Have a wee listen to this. Hear the incredulous gasps as this boy mugs us off..

I mean who would buy energy eh  🤷🏽‍♂️

 

We have too much renewable energy for a small country, no wonder we don't stand a chance on our own.

 

****sakes!

[pablo]

26 minutes ago, Boab said:

Depends whether you're talking about the latest poll or the last Scottish Election really.

The No vote is slightly ahead but the Scottish people at the last Election were asked to vote, or not vote, for a party who had a ref in their manifesto.

 

It's a matter of trust really. I believe the Nats when they said they would pursue another ref. They are doing what they said.

I wouldn't trust the UK government as far as I could throw them....possibly into the Thames if I done a bit of weights.

 

That's quite shaky ground. The FM is also on record as saying the election wasn't about independence but about economic recovery coming out of the pandemic.

 

She's on camera being asked by a voter who should she vote for if she wanted continuity but didn't support independence, the FM answered the SNP.

 

The UK government is holding to wishes of the majority, so fair enough. 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

That's quite shaky ground. The FM is also on record as saying the election wasn't about independence but about economic recovery coming out of the pandemic.

 

She's on camera being asked by a voter who should she vote for if she wanted continuity but didn't support independence, the FM answered the SNP.

 

The UK government is holding to wishes of the majority, so fair enough. 

 

If the election wasn't about independence how do the UK government know what the wishes of the majority are?

[pablo]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

If the election wasn't about independence how do the UK government know what the wishes of the majority are?

 

Opinion polls?

[Boab]

11 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

That's quite shaky ground. The FM is also on record as saying the election wasn't about independence but about economic recovery coming out of the pandemic.

 

She's on camera being asked by a voter who should she vote for if she wanted continuity but didn't support independence, the FM answered the SNP.

 

The UK government is holding to wishes of the majority, so fair enough. 

It's in the manifesto that they would seek to have another ref in the term.

It's there in black and white.

There's nothing shaky about it. 

They've now published legislation to that effect.

She's a politician however. To harp on about Indy when the pandemic was affecting everything, would have been an OG.

The timing of the proposed Ref 2 has been well thought out.

I've said many times and still still stick with it, if the No campaign is so strong, cede to another Ref. If it goes No, it will put it to bed for...well...a generation possibly !

Another poster talked about fear and he is right. What are the No camp scared about ?

[Unknown user]

11 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Opinion polls?

 

Given how far out they can be, statistically it's close enough to be pretty ambiguous. 

They should have an official opinion poll.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Some good replies to this article and tweet 

[pablo]

22 minutes ago, Boab said:

It's in the manifesto that they would seek to have another ref in the term.

It's there in black and white.

There's nothing shaky about it. 

They've now published legislation to that effect.

She's a politician however. To harp on about Indy when the pandemic was affecting everything, would have been an OG.

The timing of the proposed Ref 2 has been well thought out.

I've said many times and still still stick with it, if the No campaign is so strong, cede to another Ref. If it goes No, it will put it to bed for...well...a generation possibly !

Another poster talked about fear and he is right. What are the No camp scared about ?

 

No, I agree with you about if it's there in Manifesto, those silly enough to be fooled by what was said during an election campaign don't have much grounds for complaint. 

 

There's no need for the Remain side to cede anything. That's my point.

 

It's the majority position with law on our side. Until anything changes significantly with the numbers backing Independence.......

 

You can't have another referendum. We forbid you.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

You can't have another referendum. We forbid you.

 

You keep that patter up, loud and proud 

[pablo]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

You keep that patter up, loud and proud 

 

They already are every time they say "now is not the time" 

[Boab]

2 hours ago, pablo said:

 

No, I agree with you about if it's there in Manifesto, those silly enough to be fooled by what was said during an election campaign don't have much grounds for complaint. 

 

There's no need for the Remain side to cede anything. That's my point.

 

It's the majority position with law on our side. Until anything changes significantly with the numbers backing Independence.......

 

You can't have another referendum. We forbid you.

I agree also with what you said about the electorate being fooled. The only thing is, that's south of the border !

Foolish is being kind to the idiots that voted those criminals in with a landslide. 

I'll concede the latest poll, showing a majority No, is surprising. But that's all it is..a poll. As you say, it can change at any time but I'll take an election vote over a poll any day of the week and that was for another vote on Scotland's future. 

I said previously that it probably will go full blown legal, which will be messy, and probably won't help the Nat's cause ironically.

I, maybe naively, thought we would want to get away from those rats in Westminster but it seems foolish is UK wide at the minute !

[Japan Jambo]

On 21/06/2022 at 07:04, Dazo said:

So you want to break up a union but keep the benefits of the union that suit you ? Seems fair enough I’m sure the rUK will be happy to negotiate under those terms. 😂

 

That's such a 2016 way of thinking 🤣

[Japan Jambo]

On 21/06/2022 at 11:16, Smithee said:

Indeed, I'm against it.

 

But if it did happen I'm sure we could console ourselves with a local market of 400m+ that aren't run by petulant wankers.

 

Not getting 'velvet divorce' vibes here...

[JudyJudyJudy]

Not a fan of JRM but this tweet is pathetically, immature and  insular .  Robertson been well called out on it

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by JudyJudyJudy

[Malinga the Swinga]

6 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Some good replies to this article and tweet 

Don't know why anyone would listen to Angus Robertson. He doesn't even have his own opinion. Simply falls into line with whatever Mr Murrell opines as policy.

[manaliveits105]

9 hours ago, pablo said:

 

No, I agree with you about if it's there in Manifesto, those silly enough to be fooled by what was said during an election campaign don't have much grounds for complaint. 

 

There's no need for the Remain side to cede anything. That's my point.

 

It's the majority position with law on our side. Until anything changes significantly with the numbers backing Independence.......

 

You can't have another referendum. We forbid you.

Ra Ra well said 

they can smurf off !

[Lone Striker]

7 hours ago, Boab said:

.

I, maybe naively, thought we would want to get away from those rats in Westminster but it seems foolish is UK wide at the minute !

At least you're admitting to having made a naive assumption that having "rats in Westminster" was the  uppermost deciding factor in most Scots minds when it came to Indy support.   It clearly wasn't in 2014, and I suspect it isn't now either.    Lots of folk will have other priorities when making up their minds.

 

Its so ironic that while the SG is set on holding a referendum to try to achieve a sovereign  break with the UK, some parties in the  neighbouring  island of Ireland are starting to look at the possibility of achieving the  re-unification of the 2 countries at a sovereign level.   Both are fraught with difficulties - firstly in achieving a majority vote  in favour of the change, and then in delivering that change in a  way that satisfies the majority of folk who voted for it.      For example, what happens to the nuclear weapons base at Faslane in an Indy Scotland  .... or the future role of Stormont in a unified Ireland ? 

 

 

[Boab]

8 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

At least you're admitting to having made a naive assumption that having "rats in Westminster" was the  uppermost deciding factor in most Scots minds when it came to Indy support.   It clearly wasn't in 2014, and I suspect it isn't now either.    Lots of folk will have other priorities when making up their minds.

 

Its so ironic that while the SG is set on holding a referendum to try to achieve a sovereign  break with the UK, some parties in the  neighbouring  island of Ireland are starting to look at the possibility of achieving the  re-unification of the 2 countries at a sovereign level.   Both are fraught with difficulties - firstly in achieving a majority vote  in favour of the change, and then in delivering that change in a  way that satisfies the majority of folk who voted for it.      For example, what happens to the nuclear weapons base at Faslane in an Indy Scotland  .... or the future role of Stormont in a unified Ireland ? 

 

 

Maybe not in 2014 but I suspect differently from you, regardless of a poll !

 

[Lone Striker]

7 hours ago, Boab said:

Maybe not in 2014 but I suspect differently from you, regardless of a poll !

 

I agree with you  that an opinion poll is meaningless at this stage. 

 

 My thinking was more along the lines of there being 2 big global issues now that weren't grabbing peoples attention back in  2014  - namely Putin's aggression with resulting shortages of Russian gas & foodstuffs, and the dramatically  increasing cost of living for  the whole world.

 

It probably comes down to whether Scots think being independent makes things like that better or worse.

[jack D and coke]

54 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

I agree with you  that an opinion poll is meaningless at this stage. 

 

 My thinking was more along the lines of there being 2 big global issues now that weren't grabbing peoples attention back in  2014  - namely Putin's aggression with resulting shortages of Russian gas & foodstuffs, and the dramatically  increasing cost of living for  the whole world.

 

It probably comes down to whether Scots think being independent makes things like that better or worse.

Well it makes our abundant resources worth an awful lot more than they were in 2014 for starters. Putin will have his eye on us though. But no if Shetland goes independent tho they’ll be sound it’s just Scotland he wants to flatten. 
I wonder when they’ll aw start running oot again as well. Canny be far away from the last drop being extracted and then the wind will stop blawin no doubt. 
 

[Ainsley Harriott]

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

3 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

 

Comical stuff. Does anyone really believe shit Luke this advances the independence cause.

The guy screaming is bad enough but what the **** is the clown in armour about.

Asylums need to check as it appears two patients have escaped.

[Ainsley Harriott]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Comical stuff. Does anyone really believe shit Luke this advances the independence cause.

The guy screaming is bad enough but what the **** is the clown in armour about.

Asylums need to check as it appears two patients have escaped.

Haha that was my first thought. If that doesn't get you sectioned then what does 

[Mikey1874]

I am open to a consultancy. 

 

If I was running the campaign for independence I would be concentrating on building support and tackling some of the structural issues including working behind the scenes with the EU. 

 

The rush to a Referendum seems more about keeping those who attend the marches from revolting. Not Salmond or Joanna Cherry though. They are persona non grata. 

 

But people have spoken by saying they don't want a Referendum just now. I think Covid recovery should take priority and Scotland can show how it does things better. 

 

And that links to another point about the performance of the Government. I would have thought proving you can run things better would make the case for independence. Apart from benefits where they are seeking to tackle child poverty, no area of Government in Scotland that is doing better than the UK. 

 

I think there is a good case for independence but you need to take the people with you. Build the case. 

 

High risk to even undertake a consultative Referendum. Divisive, irrelevant and can lose influential friends. 

[Unknown user]

45 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

I am open to a consultancy. 

 

If I was running the campaign for independence I would be concentrating on building support and tackling some of the structural issues including working behind the scenes with the EU. 

 

The rush to a Referendum seems more about keeping those who attend the marches from revolting. Not Salmond or Joanna Cherry though. They are persona non grata. 

 

But people have spoken by saying they don't want a Referendum just now. I think Covid recovery should take priority and Scotland can show how it does things better. 

 

And that links to another point about the performance of the Government. I would have thought proving you can run things better would make the case for independence. Apart from benefits where they are seeking to tackle child poverty, no area of Government in Scotland that is doing better than the UK. 

 

I think there is a good case for independence but you need to take the people with you. Build the case. 

 

High risk to even undertake a consultative Referendum. Divisive, irrelevant and can lose influential friends. 

 

Why do so many unionists pretend they're open to independence and then give advice to the cause? It's a very strange kink.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

 

Dearie me 

[Lord Montpelier]

2 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

 

Come on, own up. Which one of our kickback Nationalists has been allowed out to stand on a soap box this weekend ?

[Ked]

1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Come on, own up. Which one of our kickback Nationalists has been allowed out to stand on a soap box this weekend ?

There's a clear favourite.

😄

[Unknown user]

The contempt they hold Scotland in is clear as day.

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/uk-levelling-up/boris-johnson-level-up-plan-in-trouble.html

 

The least we deserve is a government that serves Scotland.

[Konrad von Carstein]

16 minutes ago, Smithee said:

The contempt they hold Scotland in is clear as day.

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/uk-levelling-up/boris-johnson-level-up-plan-in-trouble.html

 

The least we deserve is a government that serves Scotland.

Posted this exact thing on the Tory Lies thread...wankers!

[Unknown user]

13 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Posted this exact thing on the Tory Lies thread...wankers!

Better together mate, better together

[Ked]

35 minutes ago, Smithee said:

The contempt they hold Scotland in is clear as day.

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/uk-levelling-up/boris-johnson-level-up-plan-in-trouble.html

 

The least we deserve is a government that serves Scotland.

Interesting read .

The bit that stood out in it for me was that the UK is a test case as it has one of the worst regional disparities in wealth out of developed nations.

It's a concern for other nations as well.

The life expectancy has only slightly levelled but its more a case of levelling down due to covid.

The contempt as you called it is also clear for Northern England.

They don't have the chance that we have to do something about it.

 

 

 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

Interesting read .

The bit that stood out in it for me was that the UK is a test case as it has one of the worst regional disparities in wealth out of developed nations.

It's a concern for other nations as well.

The life expectancy has only slightly levelled but its more a case of levelling down due to covid.

The contempt as you called it is also clear for Northern England.

They don't have the chance that we have to do something about it.

 

England got the government it voted for. As usual.

[Unknown user]

18 minutes ago, Ked said:

Interesting read .

The bit that stood out in it for me was that the UK is a test case as it has one of the worst regional disparities in wealth out of developed nations.

It's a concern for other nations as well.

The life expectancy has only slightly levelled but its more a case of levelling down due to covid.

The contempt as you called it is also clear for Northern England.

They don't have the chance that we have to do something about it.

 

In fact, northern England got the government they voted for.

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

I am open to a consultancy. 

 

If I was running the campaign for independence I would be concentrating on building support and tackling some of the structural issues including working behind the scenes with the EU. 

 

The rush to a Referendum seems more about keeping those who attend the marches from revolting. Not Salmond or Joanna Cherry though. They are persona non grata. 

 

But people have spoken by saying they don't want a Referendum just now. I think Covid recovery should take priority and Scotland can show how it does things better. 

 

And that links to another point about the performance of the Government. I would have thought proving you can run things better would make the case for independence. Apart from benefits where they are seeking to tackle child poverty, no area of Government in Scotland that is doing better than the UK. 

 

I think there is a good case for independence but you need to take the people with you. Build the case. 

 

High risk to even undertake a consultative Referendum. Divisive, irrelevant and can lose influential friends. 

 

A referendum on a straight up "independence - yes or no" question makes no sense right now (IMHO).

 

Either the SG looks for a negotiation mandate, or it stays quiet for a couple of years and sees what the lie of the land is then, again IMHO.

[manaliveits105]

The smurfs should just stfu we the Scottish nation aren’t interested in their pish 

[Ulysses]

18 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

The smurfs should just stfu we the Scottish nation aren’t interested in their pish 

 

Are you 9?