Should Scotland be an independent country?

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Has there been a single case of a woman being attacked at an abortion clinic in Scotland? We are not Utah or Mississippi.

But the problem is we sometimes follow the US in their mad antics  . No one should be protesting outside abortion clinics , in my view . 

[ri Alban]

10 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

What women ? Those with  or without a a penis ? Hard to keep up to speed with SNP ideology . Also your the guy who referred to Serena Williams as a “ he” so your hardly a radical feminist . 

 

I still want women who go for abortion protected from arseholes. But keep up the bollox. SW is a joke, as she's built like a man compared to the other women. So be outraged if you want. 

 

I do find it quiet weird how a gay guy who probably went through abuse for being gay, doesn't half like to put the boot into transpeople. Id have thought you'd understand their situation. You're not angry cause they've stolen your thunder, are you.

 

Anyway, I answered the bollox of the other poster, and it has feck all to do with independence. The SNP will have to win a general election post independence to enact their manifesto. 

 

 

And stop being such Karen, when people are obviously having a joke.

Edited June 28, 2022 by ri Alban

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I’m in complete agreement , bring it on  in genuinely intrigued how the Yes campaign will answer some of the burning issue post Indy , currency ,EU membership etc 

It will be skullduggery on a Pirates of the Caribbean level, mate !

Believe half of what you see, none of what you hear !

[jambomjm74]

Just now, Boab said:

I'm not ignoring it. Far from it.

1,057 people doesn't tell me anything...even if it was 100% yes to a poll next year.

The reality of the world should tell you that “now isn’t the time” one thing even the most ardent yes voter would agree with .. you must see that this is being played out to get the power to ask a referendum question … at a time which would suit. 
The Oct date is just a wheeze as is plan B… some sort of UDI via a general election.
Would that mean that Lothian and Borders could leave Scotland and join the U.K. if it won a council vote election ? Or could the Shetland’s join Denmark ? Both would fit with the majorities views  in these areas 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Has there been a single case of a woman being attacked at an abortion clinic in Scotland? We are not Utah or Mississippi.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/womans-shock-at-brazen-assault-after-pro-lifer-hits-campaigner-with-car-outside-citys-chalmers-clinic-3428565

 

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/woman-harassed-outside-abortion-clinic-calls-for-buffer-zones

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/anti-abortion-protestors-seen-filming-27175924

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20131693.calls-maree-todd-resign-sandyford-abortion-protest/

 

With religious nut jobs like Nadine Dorries who has over a decade of controversial abortion claims in government it will be an important topic here soon. 

[Shooter McGavin]

12 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Has there been a single case of a woman being attacked at an abortion clinic in Scotland? We are not Utah or Mississippi.

Is it really such a bad thing to put measures in place which will protect vulnerable women, clinicians etc from protestors? 

Unfortunately, there has been cases of protestors being verbally abusive and intimidating people around these clinics.

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/glasgow-plans-abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-to-protect-patients-from-activists-nicola-sturgeon

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Shooter McGavin

[graygo]

28 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

She won't. As soon as the going gets tough (which it will, quickly) and fingers start pointing in her direction she and Mr Murrell will be off to Geneva whilst the plebs eat grass and twigs for breakfast. 

 

You've stated that like it's a fact, it's not it's your opinion. I disagree but that's just my opinion.

[SpruceBringsteen]

Have to admit I'm surprised that there's going to be a second referendum.

 

Guess some folk just didn't mindlessly bash "DIVISIVE NIPPY KRANKIE" into their keyboard hard enough.

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I still want women who go for abortion protected from arseholes. But keep up the bollox. SW is a joke, as she's built like a man compared to the other women. So be outraged if you want. 

 

I do find it quiet weird how a gay guy who probably went through abuse for being gay, doesn't half like to put the boot into transpeople. Id have thought you'd understand their situation. You're not angry cause they've stolen your thunder, are you.

 

Anyway, I answered the bollox of the other poster, and it has feck all to do with independence. The SNP will have to win a general election post independence to enact their manifesto. 

 

 

And stop being such Karen, when people are obviously having a joke.

Built like man?

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I still want women who go for abortion protected from arseholes. But keep up the bollox. SW is a joke, as she's built like a man compared to the other women. So be outraged if you want. 

 

I do find it quiet weird how a gay guy who probably went through abuse for being gay, doesn't half like to put the boot into transpeople. Id have thought you'd understand their situation. You're not angry cause they've stolen your thunder, are you.

 

Anyway, I answered the bollox of the other poster, and it has feck all to do with independence. The SNP will have to win a general election post independence to enact their manifesto. 

 

 

And stop being such Karen, when people are obviously having a joke.

Oh dear where do I start !!!

 

Women come in all shapes and sizes . She’s no less a female cause she’s a bigger lassie. I assume you prefer skinny rakes like Emma who have zero power or muscle tone ( hint they can if they work at it ) 

 

There are plenty marginalised groups in society , so because I’m from a minority I should support others ? Trans identity is not the same as sexual orientation . My issue with some of the trans lobby is their willingness to trample on womens hard won sex based rights . But you knew that . I’m angry that they have hijacked the LGB rights groups . It’s shameful . it’s costing LGB dearly . 
 

Ahyway time will tell regarding the Indy vote . Let the best man / women / trans / non binary / Vulcan / Jedi win 
 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

43 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Could it possibly be that the current issues in Scotland are a combination of both Tory and SNP governance, rather than solely attributable to one or t'other?

How very dare you. No blame can, should or ever will be attached to our government of 12 years.

Their inability to arrest the decline in Scotland's public services, the decline in education standards and their disastrous attempt at running a shipyard is not their fault, as despite being 100% accountable for these, and other shitstorms, Boris is a useless ***** and therefore that excuses them from everything.

Very disappointed you needed reminding of this.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Built like man?

Most of my straight mates like a 

“ curvy “ woman like her . It’s a myth men.  fancy stick insects , also it’s a damaging stereotype which can harm womens self esteem .  

[graygo]

22 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

 The polls on yes / no have been up and down, that wasn’t my point. 
I’m pointing out the timing, wthe Oct 23 date is never going to seehich I clarified and you ignored.  Unsurprisingly it is not on the majority of peoples lists for next year.

Anyways this is a big wheeze, the Oct 23 date is never going to see a referendum and she knows it …  It makes great headlines and stirs up the pot nicely, which is what she wants here.
More and more division and bad feeling… 

 

Most of us know that.

[Boab]

8 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

The reality of the world should tell you that “now isn’t the time” one thing even the most ardent yes voter would agree with .. you must see that this is being played out to get the power to ask a referendum question … at a time which would suit. 
The Oct date is just a wheeze as is plan B… some sort of UDI via a general election.
Would that mean that Lothian and Borders could leave Scotland and join the U.K. if it won a council vote election ? Or could the Shetland’s join Denmark ? Both would fit with the majorities views  in these areas 

 

 

Now isn't the time, sounds like a BJ soundbite, which it may well be. 

Doesn't stop the rice pudding in a suit coming out with  “....fastest growing economy, coming out the pandemic...” bullshit he's continually trying to convince us with.

I've said my piece on this now.

Grant the Section 30 and get it over with. 

If the No camp had a spine, they would.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

How very dare you. No blame can, should or ever will be attached to our government of 12 years.

Their inability to arrest the decline in Scotland's public services, the decline in education standards and their disastrous attempt at running a shipyard is not their fault, as despite being 100% accountable for these, and other shitstorms, Boris is a useless ***** and therefore that excuses them from everything.

Very disappointed you needed reminding of this.

It’s cause we didn’t have enough money apparently but strangely if we become Indy then we will ? How. ? 

[Jeffros Furios]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Built like man?

She ain't as big as you Rab 

[manaliveits105]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

It’s cause we didn’t have enough money apparently but strangely if we become Indy then we will ? How. ? 

Murrells sofa is burstin wi wonga 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Built like man?

Now she’s All woman , maybe a Yes from me !! The biggest u turn ever 😂 

 

anyway best not to derail the thread 

 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

39 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

WM are no better than Russia if they don't grant a section 30. 

But a UDI is on the table at last.  

 

Roll on next October and independence.  

 

 

No more Tories!

Congratulations for yet another UK hating post. I know some posters think your really a unionist who posts stupid comments deliberately but I have to say, I don't.

I actually you do believe the stuff you post as other than politics, we are roughly on same side regarding other matters.

Your wrong though as there will be no UDI and no independence as majority of Scots can see through the SNP smoke and mirrors and realise there is absolutely no substance behind it.

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely. How can you have a reasoned debate with that? 

[OTT]

Quite pleased with today, its become apparent that the UK government need to be forced to the table. I think this does this. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

5 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Murrells sofa is burstin wi wonga 

Well there's enough of it gone missing from Scotland's public purse so it must be somewhere.

[graygo]

8 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Now she’s All woman , maybe a Yes from me !! The biggest u turn ever 😂 

 

anyway best not to derail the thread 

 

 

 

 

Why not? You do with just about every other thread that you post on. 

You don't even need to do it now, everybody knows you're gay, nobody cares.

Edited June 28, 2022 by graygo

[Footballfirst]

Application to the Supreme Court submitted.

 

https://www.supremecourt.uk/news/reference-by-the-lord-advocate-to-the-supreme-court-28-june.html

 

Reference by the Lord Advocate to the Supreme Court

28 June 2022

This afternoon (Tuesday 28 June), the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom (UKSC) received a reference by the Lord Advocate under paragraph 34 of Schedule 6 to the Scotland Act 1998 under the Supreme Court’s devolution jurisdiction.

Under devolution legislation enacted by the UK Parliament, the Supreme Court may decide devolution issues, such as whether the devolved executive and legislative authorities in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have acted or propose to act within their powers. Devolution cases can reach the Supreme Court through a reference from someone who can exercise relevant statutory power, such as – in this instance – the Lord Advocate.

This reference does not need to be granted permission by the Court for it to proceed.

The first step will be for the reference to be referred to the President of the Supreme Court, The Right Hon The Lord Reed of Allermuir for directions. He will decide whether there are preliminary matters to be addressed, when the case will be listed (heard), how many Justices will consider the reference, and which Justices will sit on the bench.

At this stage, we cannot confirm when the case will be heard.

We will announce further details via the UKSC website and Twitter account in due course.

For media enquiries, and to subscribe to updates about this case, contact the Supreme Court press office via [email protected] and [email protected].

[North Berwick Jambo]

Watching the all tories, over 70’’s & rangers fans sweat like a royal prince in a court case over the next 14 months or so will be worth the popcorn alone 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Malinga the Swinga]

32 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

 The polls on yes / no have been up and down, that wasn’t my point. 
I’m pointing out the timing, which I clarified and you ignored.  Unsurprisingly it is not on the majority of peoples lists for next year.

Anyways this is a big wheeze, the Oct 23 date is never going to see a referendum and she knows it …  It makes great headlines and stirs up the pot nicely, which is what she wants here.
More and more division and bad feeling… 

She couldn't give a **** if Scotland is divided. As long as she can convince the hard of thinking that independence is the answer to all Scotland's issues, she will maintain her strangling negative hold on country.

A government who won't accept any responsibility for anything, preferring instead to blame Westminster and the hated English, are a joke. The fact that even now, with Boris and his inept clowns in charge, she can't persuade a majority of electorate that independence is the answer should be a warning of what answer will be.

Another lost referendum and she is personally finished. Maybe she's frightened of next leader trying to frame her on trumped up charges, just as she did to Salmond. Don't blame her as precedence is there that the party turn on their own.

[i wish jj was my dad]

3 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

What seems to get lost in the telling is that in terms of day to day stuff it's actually the SNP that has the keys...

 

https://www.parliament.scot/about/how-parliament-works/devolved-and-reserved-powers

Which is the kinda thing we should be debating. But my heart sank when I heard the announcement. 

It will degenerate into what whatabootery and the extremists on both sides will chuck insults at anyone who doesn't conform to their way of thinking. 

If brexit hadn't happened and Johnson hadn't been given a mandate - democratic but monumentally stupid and harmful decisions IMO - Sturgeon would have had no excuse but to concentrate on making Scotland a better country. But she has the excuse and can point to a thumping majority in both WM and Holyrood as far as Scottish votes go. 

Instead, resource which should be directed into the recovery and tackling poverty is going to be  diverted into another ego contest. It truly is shameful. A plague on all of their houses. 

[1971fozzy]

It’s a NO from me , and I was yes last time. I wouldn’t trust her if she said today was Tuesday 

[OTT]

1 minute ago, 1971fozzy said:

It’s a NO from me , and I was yes last time. I wouldn’t trust her if she said today was Tuesday 

 

I don't like her either, but, Its about being free to chart our own future. 

 

Hopefully as things progress and the arguments are put forward you can be won back over  

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

It’s a NO from me , and I was yes last time. I wouldn’t trust her if she said today was Tuesday 

 

It is Tuesday so that says more about you than her.

[Malinga the Swinga]

4 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Which is the kinda thing we should be debating. But my heart sank when I heard the announcement. 

It will degenerate into what whatabootery and the extremists on both sides will chuck insults at anyone who doesn't conform to their way of thinking. 

If brexit hadn't happened and Johnson hadn't been given a mandate - democratic but monumentally stupid and harmful decisions IMO - Sturgeon would have had no excuse but to concentrate on making Scotland a better country. But she has the excuse and can point to a thumping majority in both WM and Holyrood as far as Scottish votes go. 

Instead, resource which should be directed into the recovery and tackling poverty is going to be  diverted into another ego contest. It truly is shameful. A plague on all of their houses. 

Well said. This is what all bar about the most extreme 5% on either side believe.

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

She couldn't give a **** if Scotland is divided. As long as she can convince the hard of thinking that independence is the answer to all Scotland's issues, she will maintain her strangling negative hold on country.

A government who won't accept any responsibility for anything, preferring instead to blame Westminster and the hated English, are a joke. The fact that even now, with Boris and his inept clowns in charge, she can't persuade a majority of electorate that independence is the answer should be a warning of what answer will be.

Another lost referendum and she is personally finished. Maybe she's frightened of next leader trying to frame her on trumped up charges, just as she did to Salmond. Don't blame her as precedence is there that the party turn on their own.

Yep 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Which is the kinda thing we should be debating. But my heart sank when I heard the announcement. 

It will degenerate into what whatabootery and the extremists on both sides will chuck insults at anyone who doesn't conform to their way of thinking. 

If brexit hadn't happened and Johnson hadn't been given a mandate - democratic but monumentally stupid and harmful decisions IMO - Sturgeon would have had no excuse but to concentrate on making Scotland a better country. But she has the excuse and can point to a thumping majority in both WM and Holyrood as far as Scottish votes go. 

Instead, resource which should be directed into the recovery and tackling poverty is going to be  diverted into another ego contest. It truly is shameful. A plague on all of their houses. 

Good post 

[Guest]

Quite clever of her tbh.

 

Avoid making a positive case and can concentrate on stoking grievance against Boris and Westminster etc.

 

When it comes to the next election after pretendy ref, it's highly unlikely they will lose so many seats as not to be the largest, thus claiming a mandate for Indy and continuing on the endless grievance journey.

 

The faithful will lap it up.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Jonkel Hoon

[hughesie27]

1 hour ago, skinnybob72 said:

The SNP have had 8 years since the last referendum so they should have had time to answer a lot of the ‘unknowns’ that would have dissuaded some from voting Yes. Such as 

 

what currency will we be using?

how do we set up a central bank?

are we guaranteed to get back into the EU immediately?

will we join NATO?

how much will it cost to set up our own HMRC, DVLA, etc?

do we take a %age of the UK’s debt with us? If so, how much? 
what happens to Faslane if the UK Gov move operations south? 
will we have a hard border with England?
 

We’re still seeing massive downside impacts of Brexit, with a lot of promises turning out to be lies. Why should we believe that Independence will be different?
 

I’m not for one moment suggesting the UK is in a good place but unless we can guarantee that an independent Scotland will be a better place to live and work then I will be voting NO. I’m not up for another leap into the unknown.  

 

Loads of those questions were answered at the time. Folk just didn't like the answer to questions like "can we rejoin the EU" being as simple as "Of course we will, very easily you ****ing idiot". They wanted every EU nation to make comment on a rhetorical political decision.

Edited June 28, 2022 by hughesie27

[The Real Maroonblood]

30 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

It’s a NO from me , and I was yes last time. I wouldn’t trust her if she said today was Tuesday 

Johnson is one to trust.

[manaliveits105]

Nationalists don’t seem to like people over 70 despite many of them having parents and grandparents in this category - weird weird people these smurfs 

[EH11_2NL]

I was a Yes last time but very undecided now. I honestly don't think we have the quality of politician at the moment to make it work. The only plus that I could possibly see is that Scottish Labour, and to an extent Scottish Conservatives, get their act together to provide meaningful opposition. The SNP are almost like a monopoly just now. That is never healthy.

Edited June 28, 2022 by EH11_2NL

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

I was a Yes last time but very undecided now. I honestly don't think we have the quality of politician at the moment to make it work. The only plus that I could possibly see is that Scottish Labour, and to an extent Scottish Conservatives, get their act together to provide meaningful opposition. The SNP are almost like a monopoly just now. That is never healthy.

👍👍

[Herbert.]

I would vote yes if sturgeon agreed to another general election if we won independence. 

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

I was a Yes last time but very undecided now. I honestly don't think we have the quality of politician at the moment to make it work. The only plus that I could possibly see is that Scottish Labour, and to an extent Scottish Conservatives, get their act together to provide meaningful opposition. The SNP are almost like a monopoly just now. That is never healthy.

That's why a section 30 has to be agreed.

Can you imagine the shit show if the supreme court rule against the Nats ?

To, then, go into a GE with one issue being put up, would be a disaster.

 

Thinking about it, it could be the play from down south. Self-inflicted implosion !

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, Herbert. said:

I would vote yes if sturgeon agreed to another general election if we won independence. 

That would be way down the line. It will be a consultative Ref which means the legislation to agree Indy could go on for a undefined time period.

It's a gamble from the Nats. Supreme Court ruling goes wrong, they could be in bother !

[hughesie27]

4 minutes ago, Herbert. said:

I would vote yes if sturgeon agreed to another general election if we won independence. 

Would take a couple years to actually gain independence where we could hold that election. I'm pretty sure the SNP agreed to have 1 within the 1st year of independence in 2014 so no reason for them not to this time.

[i wish jj was my dad]

8 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Nationalists don’t seem to like people over 70 despite many of them having parents and grandparents in this category - weird weird people these smurfs 

I know I shouldn't bit but can you feck off and pollute something else?  If you had the self awareness you might realise that arseholery on either side just hardens opinions on the other side. Unless you have something constructive to say leave the discussion to the grown ups.

[Don Dan]

8 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

I was a Yes last time but very undecided now. I honestly don't think we have the quality of politician at the moment to make it work. The only plus that I could possibly see is that Scottish Labour, and to an extent Scottish Conservatives, get their act together to provide meaningful opposition. The SNP are almost like a monopoly just now. That is never healthy.

The UK as a whole lack quaintly politicians.  It’s a disgrace really that out of 60+ million there are no prospects who can lead this country beit UK or Scotland. We seems to be stuck with political elite who are crooks and charlatans. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Boab said:

That would be way down the line. It will be a consultative Ref which means the legislation to agree Indy could go on for a undefined time period.

It's a gamble from the Nats. Supreme Court ruling goes wrong, they could be in bother !

Why would they be in bother ? 

[Boab]

1 minute ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I know I shouldn't bit but can you feck off and pollute something else?  If you had the self awareness you might realise that arseholery on either side just hardens opinions on the other side. Unless you have something constructive to say leave the discussion to the grown ups.

He's a troll, mate.

Concentrate on the debate and ignore.

👍

[Hansel]

Folk still can't see past Sturgeon

 

It's not about her or the SNP

 

It's a much bigger question than that. 

 

Personally, I'll vote Yes

Edited June 28, 2022 by Hansel

[Boab]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Why would they be in bother ? 

Because, frankly, J, the opposition parties, in the lead up to that GE, would have a field day, attacking a party going into a GE with a declared one issue !

Especially as we don't know the state of the gaff at that time. I can't see any recovery any time soon.

 

[Ked]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Oh dear where do I start !!!

 

Women come in all shapes and sizes . She’s no less a female cause she’s a bigger lassie. I assume you prefer skinny rakes like Emma who have zero power or muscle tone ( hint they can if they work at it ) 

 

There are plenty marginalised groups in society , so because I’m from a minority I should support others ? Trans identity is not the same as sexual orientation . My issue with some of the trans lobby is their willingness to trample on womens hard won sex based rights . But you knew that . I’m angry that they have hijacked the LGB rights groups . It’s shameful . it’s costing LGB dearly . 
 

Ahyway time will tell regarding the Indy vote . Let the best man / women / trans / non binary / Vulcan / Jedi win 
 

 

 

Come on James.

Because you like kissing men you should follow a proscribed political and cultural mindset.

Get with the programme.

Your sexuality should define that .