Should Scotland be an independent country?

[Cruyff]

Even though i cannot stand the SNP, i'll be voting yes just to get the Tories and the corrupt WM establishment away to f#ck. 

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, Hansel said:

Folk still can't see past Sturgeon

 

It's not about her or the SNP

 

It's a much bigger question than that. 

 

Personally, I'll vote Yes

Likewise. The Nats are only a conduit to a far bigger thing.

[Hansel]

Just now, Boab said:

Likewise. The Nats are only a conduit to a far bigger thing.

A means to an end 👍 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, Hansel said:

Folk still can't see past Sturgeon

 

It's not about her or the SNP

 

It's a much bigger question than that. 

 

Personally, I'll vote Yes

Spot on.

[Boab]

Just now, Hansel said:

A means to an end 👍 

 

As I said earlier, I'm surprised there aren't more noises in support, especially from Labour supporters.

It's a huge opportunity.

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, Hansel said:

Folk still can't see past Sturgeon

 

It's not about her or the SNP

 

It's a much bigger question than that. 

 

Personally, I'll vote Yes

Not at the moment it's not. The SNP and Sturgeon are the movement for independence, the two are intertwined and inseparable.

Guarantee, as Herbert said, an immediate general election and guarantee an immediate dissolution of SNP upon independence (they would have achieved their sole aim), then it would be worth considering.

Until then, I trust them as much as I do Boris and co, who is basically not at all.

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Ked said:

Come on James.

Because you like kissing men you should follow a proscribed political and cultural mindset.

Get with the programme.

Your sexuality should define that .

 

I know . Nowt like stereotyping . He does that a lot . 

[graygo]

14 minutes ago, Boab said:

That would be way down the line. It will be a consultative Ref which means the legislation to agree Indy could go on for a undefined time period.

It's a gamble from the Nats. Supreme Court ruling goes wrong, they could be in bother !

Supreme Court are not expected to rule in the Scottish government's favour, NS knows that.

[frankblack]

I've been in the office but did I miss the Scottish Government getting a Section 30 Order or are the nationalists having a referendum with no power?

[Ked]

2 minutes ago, Hansel said:

Folk still can't see past Sturgeon

 

It's not about her or the SNP

 

It's a much bigger question than that. 

 

Personally, I'll vote Yes

So will I.

 

And I am very critical of the current SG.

We will never address the deep seeted problems of Scotland as part of a union which by definition was set up to keep us down/quiet.

I'm not suggesting that we are oppressed .

But there is imo a psyche that pervades how we see ourselves.

We need to grow up take responsibility and stand on our own two feet.

Make no mistake London will not easily accommodate that.

And the question really will be down to if the Scottish voters shite it.

But imo Scotland is very different and essentially a conservative minded country which has punched above its weight until the last half century.

The handout of Barnett dulls that and creates a dependency.

So I'd ask conservatives.

Are you more conservative or more unionist ?

 

[hughesie27]

11 minutes ago, Hansel said:

Folk still can't see past Sturgeon

 

It's not about her or the SNP

 

It's a much bigger question than that. 

 

Personally, I'll vote Yes

It's not even about the next 10 or so years. Some folk are only interested in how things will impact their immediate day to day lives and that's a valid perspective to have. Other folk are built different and care more about long term goals.

[Boab]

Just now, graygo said:

Supreme Court are not expected to rule in the Scottish government's favour, NS knows that.

Maybe, mate, which makes it a continuing gamble. 

They could go into a GE with Indy as their aim, win a majority and still have it constitutionally refused. 

Big doings ahead !

[Malinga the Swinga]

9 minutes ago, Boab said:

He's a troll, mate.

Concentrate on the debate and ignore.

👍

Maybe he is, but it's amazing how you don't call out the trolls with opposing view.

 

Both sides could agree to stop name calling, stop negative campaigning and only concentrate on positive aspects.

They won't though, as both sides are weak, clueless and entirely rely on combination of fear, bitterness and hatred to maintain grip on power.

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

I've been in the office but did I miss the Scottish Government getting a Section 30 Order or are the nationalists having a referendum with no power?

Have a guess?

[graygo]

Just now, Boab said:

Maybe, mate, which makes it a continuing gamble. 

They could go into a GE with Indy as their aim, win a majority and still have it constitutionally refused. 

Big doings ahead !

 

Civil unrest would probably ensue, not impossible.

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

It's not even about the next 10 or so years. Some folk are only interested in how things will impact their immediate day to day lives and that's a valid perspective to have. Other folk are built different and care more about long term goals.

How many generations are you prepared to sacrifice on a wing and a prayer?

Give us details first so we know what we are voting for. We got it wrong in Brexit, I don't want us to get it wrong again.

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Maybe he is, but it's amazing how you don't call out the trolls with opposing view.

 

Both sides could agree to stop name calling, stop negative campaigning and only concentrate on positive aspects.

They won't though, as both sides are weak, clueless and entirely rely on combination of fear, bitterness and hatred to maintain grip on power.

 

 

Paragraph 1. There may well be. I'll leave that to you. 👍

The rest, agree. Politics has fear as a weapon and that won't change.

[Boab]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Civil unrest would probably ensue, not impossible.

No won the vote in 2014 and that didn't stop morons attacking wee lassies with saltires in George Sq. 

Imagine they'd lost !

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

How many generations are you prepared to sacrifice on a wing and a prayer?

Give us details first so we know what we are voting for. We got it wrong in Brexit, I don't want us to get it wrong again.

 

This.

 

How are the nationalist voters going to feel when the rest of the UK thrives while Scotland is in a depression for decades?

 

Never mind though, we won't be getting dictated to by Westminster while we become the poor man of Europe.

[hughesie27]

5 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

How many generations are you prepared to sacrifice on a wing and a prayer?

Give us details first so we know what we are voting for. We got it wrong in Brexit, I don't want us to get it wrong again.

We absolutely need more detail and answers which will come I'm sure. I'm not going to blindly vote Yes if they don't come up with a substantial plan. But folk getting hung up on not having 100% assurance that we will be accepted into the EU (when we aren't in it anyway!) Need to broaden their viewpoint.

[Malinga the Swinga]

3 minutes ago, Boab said:

No won the vote in 2014 and that didn't stop morons attacking wee lassies with saltires in George Sq. 

Imagine they'd lost !

We could just offer independence to Glasgow and Dundee. Leave the rest of us to live in civilisation.

[JudyJudyJudy]

22 minutes ago, Boab said:

Because, frankly, J, the opposition parties, in the lead up to that GE, would have a field day, attacking a party going into a GE with a declared one issue !

Especially as we don't know the state of the gaff at that time. I can't see any recovery any time soon.

 

Yea that’s what I was thinking ! 

[Japan Jambo]

3 hours ago, Dazo said:

What you are thinking is despite making an utter ***** of the current powers if the get even more all of a sudden the snp become great at running the country. 😂

 

Can any side be genuinely confident of a result ? I know sure as hell won’t be. The country is completely divided, not sure how any result can be good. 

 

Can't even empty the bins why on earth would I believe that?

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

We could just offer independence to Glasgow and Dundee. Leave the rest of us to live in civilisation.

Good deal. The morons would need to move though !

You could ship them off to Rwanda !

👍

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

We could just offer independence to Glasgow and Dundee. Leave the rest of us to live in civilisation.

 

What will happen is that this vote will be a farce.

 

No will simply campaign to their voters to boycott an illegal referendum.  Yes will therefore win with near 100% but be able to do **** all about it.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, hughesie27 said:

We absolutely need more detail and answers which will come I'm sure. I'm not going to blindly vote Yes if they don't come up with a substantial plan. But folk getting hung up on not having 100% assurance that we will be accepted into the EU (when we aren't in it anyway!) Need to broaden their viewpoint.

Personally I am in no hurry to join EU, even though I voted to remain . We wouldn't get same deal as before and would be at back and call of Germany/France. 

That's not biggest topic, at least for me 

Currency, economy, pensions and defence are top of list. Last referendum saw zero concrete plans laid out. If they do same again, then they haven't learned a thing.

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, Boab said:

Good deal. The morons would need to move though !

You could ship them off to Rwanda !

👍

That's too harsh on Rwanda. I was thinking of building a wall round both places and just letting them get on with it.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

How many generations are you prepared to sacrifice on a wing and a prayer?

Give us details first so we know what we are voting for. We got it wrong in Brexit, I don't want us to get it wrong again.

See this is the issue I have . How Long would an Indy Scotland be in dire economic straights with the impact falling squarely on our children ? Voting yes would be a Scexit really . 

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

See this is the issue I have . How Long would an Indy Scotland be in dire economic straights with the impact falling squarely on our children ? Voting yes would be a Scexit really . 

 

Far far worse as rUK is our biggest trading partner.  How many financial sector jobs as an example will disappear overnight over the border?

 

The majority of their customers, suppliers, and supporting businesses will be outside Scotland.

Edited June 28, 2022 by frankblack

[Boab]

6 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

That's too harsh on Rwanda. I was thinking of building a wall round both places and just letting them get on with it.

 

If only Hadrian had made a better fist of it !

 

[frankblack]

5 minutes ago, Boab said:

If only Hadrian had made a better fist of it !

 

 

Scotland will need to build their own to join the EU.  The UK won't contribute, much like Trump with Mexico....

[hughesie27]

14 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Personally I am in no hurry to join EU, even though I voted to remain . We wouldn't get same deal as before and would be at back and call of Germany/France. 

That's not biggest topic, at least for me 

Currency, economy, pensions and defence are top of list. Last referendum saw zero concrete plans laid out. If they do same again, then they haven't learned a thing.

 

They are definitely going to need to provide more solid answer than Las time if they want to win folk over.

 

From memory I think their answer to Currency was that initially at least it would be a Scottish £ backed by BoE. The tories of course said the BoE would never agree to this so SNP said if that was the case they'd be within their rights to walk away from any portion of the national deficit they had to repay.

[hughesie27]

14 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Far far worse as rUK is our biggest trading partner.  How many financial sector jobs as an example will disappear overnight over the border?

Independence doesn't occur overnight so none. You'd like to think the rUK Gov would have learned a lesson from Brexit by the time it came to getting to negotiations. Perhaps it would even be a Labour Gov by then. 

[XB52]

If nothing else, maybe now the unionists might just accept that NS does actually want independence. One thing off their list of grievances

[Dawnrazor]

8 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

They are definitely going to need to provide more solid answer than Las time if they want to win folk over.

 

From memory I think their answer to Currency was that initially at least it would be a Scottish £ backed by BoE. The tories of course said the BoE would never agree to this so SNP said if that was the case they'd be within their rights to walk away from any portion of the national deficit they had to repay.

Exactly this, will Scotland be able to use the pound sterling, if not how will walking away from a debt effect Scotland post independence? After 8 years I'm astonished these haven't had a concrete answer.

[Ked]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1632419/uk-scotland-sturgeon-independence-locational-marginal-pricing-energy

 

The daily express no less.

 

[Ked]

Asides from the article which could see an independent Scotland gain favour with big business Scotland is an attractive place for those who may wish to escape the ever growing problems of English cities.

Especially those well heeled entrepreneurs.

There's a lot to offer here if it's not a high tax economy.

Bearing in mind its factual that high tax economies bear less revenue.

[frankblack]

10 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Independence doesn't occur overnight so none. You'd like to think the rUK Gov would have learned a lesson from Brexit by the time it came to getting to negotiations. Perhaps it would even be a Labour Gov by then. 

 

Niave thinking

Most banks and other financial services organisations are headquartered down south.

 

What would an independent Scotland have to offer keep them here (other than cheaper wages)?

[FWJ]

54 minutes ago, Ked said:

So will I.

 

And I am very critical of the current SG.

We will never address the deep seeted problems of Scotland as part of a union which by definition was set up to keep us down/quiet.

I'm not suggesting that we are oppressed .

But there is imo a psyche that pervades how we see ourselves.

We need to grow up take responsibility and stand on our own two feet.

Make no mistake London will not easily accommodate that.

And the question really will be down to if the Scottish voters shite it.

But imo Scotland is very different and essentially a conservative minded country which has punched above its weight until the last half century.

The handout of Barnett dulls that and creates a dependency.

So I'd ask conservatives.

Are you more conservative or more unionist ?

 

Was it?   It paid off our debts and gave us access to England’s colonies - an opportunity we grasped with both hands and became very enthusiastic empire builders.

I voted ‘yes’ last time - after quite a bit of thought - and probably will again, but I hate that if you dare express any doubt about an any aspect of independence there is quite a few who will just mock you as a ‘yoon’. 
 

If more supporters of independence spent time explaining their views and addressing the concerns of wavering voters rather than just hurling insults about I’m sure they could persuade more to vote ‘yes’.

 

And, yeah yeah it works the other way too.

 

(Other than the first bit this wasn’t directed at you, BTW Ked, just a general observation / lament / rant.)

Edited June 28, 2022 by FWJ

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

Asides from the article which could see an independent Scotland gain favour with big business Scotland is an attractive place for those who may wish to escape the ever growing problems of English cities.

Especially those well heeled entrepreneurs.

There's a lot to offer here if it's not a high tax economy.

Bearing in mind its factual that high tax economies bear less revenue.

 

How will an independent Scotland run their services like the NHS and benefits without high taxation?

[i wish jj was my dad]

43 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

This.

 

How are the nationalist voters going to feel when the rest of the UK thrives while Scotland is in a depression for decades?

 

Never mind though, we won't be getting dictated to by Westminster while we become the poor man of Europe.

If England continues to vote for right wing charlatans who are happy to cut the country's own throat to enrich their pals I don't see rUK thriving tbh. 

Ireland is actually thriving and a model scotland can aspire to. Do we have the patience and fortitude for it? I doubt it.

[Ked]

1 minute ago, FWJ said:

Was it?   It paid off our debts and gave us access to England’s colonies - an opportunity we grasped with both hands and became very enthusiastic empire builders.

I voted ‘yes’ last time - after quite a bit of thought - and probably will again, but I hate that if you dare express any doubt about an any aspect of independence there is quite a few who will just mock you as a ‘yoon’. 
 

If more supporters of independence spent time explaining their views and addressing the concerns of wavering voters rather than just hurling insults about I’m sure they could persuade more to vote ‘yes’.

 

And, yeah yeah it works the other way too.

 

(Other than the first bit this wasn’t directed at you, BTW Ked, just a general observation / lament / rant.)

The benefit to England and any union between a country of disproportionate size could only benefit the larger state.

It closed a back door .

Scotland or rather Scotlands elite benefitted greatly from the union.

And we Scots disproportionately added to its wealth.

Those days are gone and now I feel Scotland is held back.

I didn't take it the wrong way and entirely agree on the yoon chat.

It's embarrassing as is the notion of some kilted response to oppression.

 

[Ked]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

How will an independent Scotland run their services like the NHS and benefits without high taxation?

Do you really think that Scotland implementing high taxation generates more revenue?

Because the evidence points to the opposite.

There is absolutely no doubt that initially we would need to borrow like every single advanced nation world wide.

This notion that Scotland cannot afford itself is total nonsense.

For the last 50 years the UK has carried a debt of at least 70% of its gdp.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

46 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Far far worse as rUK is our biggest trading partner.  How many financial sector jobs as an example will disappear overnight over the border?

 

The majority of their customers, suppliers, and supporting businesses will be outside Scotland.

Think it’s 70% trade to England 

[Weakened Offender]

4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The problem with likes of Doogz is  that they change their minds that often that nobody knows where they stand.

 

 

Oh!

 

😀

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Most of my straight mates like a 

“ curvy “ woman like her . It’s a myth men.  fancy stick insects , also it’s a damaging stereotype which can harm womens self esteem .  

Yeah I’m the same, can’t stand skinny women. 

[Montgomery Brewster]

21 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

If England continues to vote for right wing charlatans who are happy to cut the country's own throat to enrich their pals I don't see rUK thriving tbh. 

Ireland is actually thriving and a model scotland can aspire to. Do we have the patience and fortitude for it? I doubt it.

Ireland has a fraction of the natural resources of what lies / in and around Scotland. They are doing quite nicely thank you. 
 

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Now she’s All woman , maybe a Yes from me !! The biggest u turn ever 😂 

 

anyway best not to derail the thread 

 

 

 

Christina is some woman 😆

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Montgomery Brewster said:

Ireland has a fraction of the natural resources of what lies / in and around Scotland. They are doing quite nicely thank you. 
 

The pensions are going to be tripled also. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah I’m the same, can’t stand skinny women. 

I always thought Diana Dors was stunning when she was older and she had some weight about her . Lovely person too .