Should Scotland be an independent country?

[The Mighty Thor]

5 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

If they go down that path then surely the lib Dems, Tories and Labour would have to work together and only stand one candidate in each seat. Saying that they may just ignore what the snp are doing and not accept it as any kind of defacto referendum 

That must be a long term tactic for the legacy parties as they've barely returned an MP in Scotland for the last 3 or 4 GEs

 

Good solid plan likes 👍 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

If they go down that path then surely the lib Dems, Tories and Labour would have to work together and only stand one candidate in each seat. Saying that they may just ignore what the snp are doing and not accept it as any kind of defacto referendum 

I think they would just completely ignore the election 

Edited August 24, 2022 by JudyJudyJudy

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

#prayforthesmurfs

Well Joanna would and does wipe rhd floor intellectually and politically against NS so if she stood against her it might help the Indy cause I feel . Too much baggage with  NS now . Too abrasive and marmite  a character to even attempt to convince wavering Yes voters to be fully fledged Yessers 

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I think they would just completely ignore the election 

I really don’t think they should. Why can’t they produce a positive case?

Why is it considered normal that our govt leaders basically fly in and out under cover and have nothing to do with normal people? Is that not insane to you?  it’s been since thatcher ffs none of these people can come here and this is normal to you??🤣
It’s baffling that somehow it’s considered ok to say no completely to what is being voted for or that it should be ok to just not get involved? I can’t fathom this thinking it shouid be easy to sell it if Yes is such a dreadful decision? 

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Well Joanna would and does wipe rhd floor intellectually and politically against NS so if she stood against her it might help the Indy cause I feel . Too much baggage with  NS now . Too abrasive and marmite  a character to even attempt to convince wavering Yes voters to be fully fledged Yessers 

NS hasn’t really done anything that I can think of. To advance it I mean.
Yes she’s won some thumping majorities but I’d say that more the crest of a wave than anything she actually done. 
Joanna Cherry might be a great choice for leader actually. 

[pablo]

11 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

If they go down that path then surely the lib Dems, Tories and Labour would have to work together and only stand one candidate in each seat. Saying that they may just ignore what the snp are doing and not accept it as any kind of defacto referendum 

 

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I think they would just completely ignore the election 

 

The next General Election will be fought for by the parties hoping to form the next UK government. Scots will cast their vote for all numbers of reasons,  as per usual. 

 

There's no way the SNP can win with this tactic, and the risk for them is huge. Should they actually win over 50% of votes for the first time ever, that will rightly be ignored for the reasons above. If they fail to do so, then they've lost a second referendum, as that's what they're claiming the next GE will be.

 

It's Sturgeon's "out", her walking away point, ready for her next job at the UN or whatever. 

 

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Loose Persons 

[Dazo]

6 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I really don’t think they should. Why can’t they produce a positive case?

Why is it considered normal that our govt leaders basically fly in and out under cover and have nothing to do with normal people? Is that not insane to you?  it’s been since thatcher ffs none of these people can come here and this is normal to you??🤣
It’s baffling that somehow it’s considered ok to say no completely to what is being voted for or that it should be ok to just not get involved? I can’t fathom this thinking it shouid be easy to sell it if Yes is such a dreadful decision? 

NS hasn’t really done anything that I can think of. To advance it I mean.
Yes she’s won some thumping majorities but I’d say that more the crest of a wave than anything she actually done. 
Joanna Cherry might be a great choice for leader actually. 

Let’s be honest here at this moment in time it is probably impossible to make a positive case for the status quo and Westminster rule. As bad as things are though it isn’t the norm and it will get better. I think if she doesn’t press ahead now and get a referendum with 12-18 months the chance will be gone. 

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Let’s be honest here at this moment in time it is probably impossible to make a positive case for the status quo and Westminster rule. As bad as things are though it isn’t the norm and it will get better. I think if she doesn’t press ahead now and get a referendum with 12-18 months the chance will be gone. 

I don’t recall it being very positive 8 years ago either and with a lot of fibs in there to get the No vote. 
Being mocked for suggesting Johnson would ever become PM and saying leaving the EU was scare stories  
Now it’s sort of a case that well you shouldn’t have believed everything we said anyway but forget it you’ll no be getting another one and if you try we’ll just take nowt to do with it anyway? 
Im not saying you personally but that is what some parts of the union side are saying is ok? 
 

[Dazo]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

I don’t recall it being very positive 8 years ago either and with a lot of fibs in there to get the No vote. 
Being mocked for suggesting Johnson would ever become PM and saying leaving the EU was scare stories  
Now it’s sort of a case that well you shouldn’t have believed everything we said anyway but forget it you’ll no be getting another one and if you try we’ll just take nowt to do with it anyway? 
Im not saying you personally but that is what some parts of the union side are saying is ok? 
 

If anyone believes any of the propaganda from either side during these things then they really need help. Take the extreme from either sides out the equation and you are left with a huge amount of the country who don’t listen to them but do believe in yes or no for other reasons. 
 

I find it all very lazy and derogatory to most of the country when people take the moral high ground saying you believed this or that. From either side that is. 

[jack D and coke]

11 minutes ago, Dazo said:

If anyone believes any of the propaganda from either side during these things then they really need help. Take the extreme from either sides out the equation and you are left with a huge amount of the country who don’t listen to them but do believe in yes or no for other reasons. 
 

I find it all very lazy and derogatory to most of the country when people take the moral high ground saying you believed this or that. From either side that is. 

It wasn’t  propaganda about getting Johnson for PM or that we’d be out the EU because they had to try appease ukip and people like Farage. This prick is getting himself back in the news cos the dinghys are still coming and he wants some harder brexit. 
There was propaganda tho like spain will veto Scotland from rejoining, the oils running oot, pensions in danger, couldn’t have bailed out the banks.

Or you could just call them lies?

Some people would never be swayed regardless I get that but it’s not true for everyone. 
 

[JudyJudyJudy]

47 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I don’t recall it being very positive 8 years ago either and with a lot of fibs in there to get the No vote. 
Being mocked for suggesting Johnson would ever become PM and saying leaving the EU was scare stories  
Now it’s sort of a case that well you shouldn’t have believed everything we said anyway but forget it you’ll no be getting another one and if you try we’ll just take nowt to do with it anyway? 
Im not saying you personally but that is what some parts of the union side are saying is ok? 
 

It works both ways with doomsday predictions . What if the predictions that if we got Indy it would be much worse than Brexit could ever be. ? What if that’s true or even close to the truth ? 

42 minutes ago, Dazo said:

If anyone believes any of the propaganda from either side during these things then they really need help. Take the extreme from either sides out the equation and you are left with a huge amount of the country who don’t listen to them but do believe in yes or no for other reasons. 
 

I find it all very lazy and derogatory to most of the country when people take the moral high ground saying you believed this or that. From either side that is. 

I voted yes for emotional reasons in 2014 , nationalistic reasons . I’ll probably be voting no with my practical head on if there is another Indy . But I am seriously doubting there will be one in next oct . It’s going to be a de facto general election 

[jack D and coke]

15 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

It works both ways with doomsday predictions . What if the predictions that if we got Indy it would be much worse than Brexit could ever be. ? What if that’s true or even close to the truth ? 

I voted yes for emotional reasons in 2014 , nationalistic reasons . I’ll probably be voting no with my practical head on if there is another Indy . But I am seriously doubting there will be one in next oct . It’s going to be a de facto general election 

Well we don’t know that’s certainly true. 
It’s also true that the No side lied a lot to get the No and now it’s a case of saying well tough shit for believing us you’ll no be getting another go anytime soon and even if you try exercise some democracy we’ll then say we’re no playing and claim it’s not valid? 
It’s too early in the morning for this anyway  coffee time. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Well we don’t know that’s certainly true. 
It’s also true that the No side lied a lot to get the No and now it’s a case of saying well tough shit for believing us you’ll no be getting another go anytime soon and even if you try exercise some democracy we’ll then say we’re no playing and claim it’s not valid? 
It’s too early in the morning for this anyway  coffee time. 

surprised your still posting as you seemed pished last night lol ...a Tuesday night too  

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

surprised your still posting as you seemed pished last night lol ...a Tuesday night too  

I had one or two yes😐😂

[Japan Jambo]

20 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Devo max could be the perfect solution - gives much more autonomy but respects the fact that Indy was voted down when the referendum took place. There just seem to be loads of vested interests infecting the whole debate, on both sides. 

 

Wherever this ends up I hope it's made clear who is accountable for what. This constant bickering and finger pointing is tiresome. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

I had one or two yes😐😂

why not. so did i. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

GERS figures coming along shortly. Remember when Kate Forbes and Derek McKay promised their alternative figures.... 2 years and still waiting for that pro Indy economic case.

[Mikey1874]

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Quelle surprise .  MIA today when the Gers is announced.  Must be bad news or they would be on every media platform.

 

 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

Quelle surprise .  MIA today when the Gers is announced.  Must be bad news or they would be on every media platform.

 

 

 

 

Will there be countries anywhere on earth in surplus do you think at this moment? 
How many other countries have these battered over their heads when they’re basically estimates too? 

Why isn’t there English GERS or GERE figures?
Would they be showing a surplus? 
And what twitter accounts are you following these days man😂

[manaliveits105]

6 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Quelle surprise .  MIA today when the Gers is announced.  Must be bad news or they would be on every media platform.

 

 

 

 

Is she appearing in the best of the fest comedy show ?

[Mikey1874]

John Swinney has praised the Gers figures this morning.

 

So presumably they rate them now as credible. 

[jack D and coke]

Never mind GERS. 

Should Scotland be an independent country? 
No just let this lot influence us and sit doon  

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

Exactly. Where's the birds, here?

 

 

 
Some of those slavic bursds🤤

[JudyJudyJudy]

43 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Will there be countries anywhere on earth in surplus do you think at this moment? 
How many other countries have these battered over their heads when they’re basically estimates too? 

Why isn’t there English GERS or GERE figures?
Would they be showing a surplus? 
And what twitter accounts are you following these days man😂

😮

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

 
Some of those slavic bursds🤤

And the Slavic men too ! Plus Germans or Nordic looks 

[JudyJudyJudy]

45 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Is she appearing in the best of the fest comedy show ?

No she’s virtue signalling again , more important than health and safety issues of manky bins . She doing a musical later on mind you 😂

 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

SNP supporters previously totally disregarded Gers figures as misleading.

 

Seems today they like them. 

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

SNP supporters previously totally disregarded Gers figures as misleading.

 

Seems today they like them. 

Unionist supporters previously battered everyone over the head overjoyed that GERS figures confirmed Scotland was potless. 
 

Seems today they hate them. 
 

edit: disclaimer I haven’t seen them yet😬😂

Edited August 24, 2022 by jack D and coke

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Happy to inflate my dinghy for her: https://photogallery.indiatimes.com/beauty-pageants/miss-world/angela-tanuzi-wins-miss-world-albania-2022-crown/articleshow/92225738.cms?picid=92225791

 

🛶

Goodness me😱😍
She looks like CGI or something. Almost perfect…

[Mikey1874]

10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Unionist supporters previously battered everyone over the head overjoyed that GERS figures confirmed Scotland was potless. 
 

Seems today they hate them. 
 

edit: disclaimer I haven’t seen them yet😬😂

 

It's really good news Scotland's tax revenues cover spending. Less cuts hopefully.

[Konrad von Carstein]

16 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Pretty sure SNP supporters are still a wee bit confused about how the light in the fridge only comes on when the door opens, so to expect them to grasp economics is probably asking a bit much, TBF.

 

A new low for you, disappointing

 

 

14 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Happy to inflate my dinghy for her: https://photogallery.indiatimes.com/beauty-pageants/miss-world/angela-tanuzi-wins-miss-world-albania-2022-crown/articleshow/92225738.cms?picid=92225791

 

🛶

Redeemed!!!!!

Wowsers!! 

 

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

Too many green outfits. Need to get her out of those.

I honestly didn’t notice…

 

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It's really good news Scotland's tax revenues cover spending. Less cuts hopefully.

Well I haven’t really ever looked to them before so would be a bit hypocritical to sing about them this time if they’re better. 
If like you say it means less cuts then can’t be a bad thing. 

 

[Mikey1874]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

Well I haven’t really ever looked to them before so would be a bit hypocritical to sing about them this time if they’re better. 
If like you say it means less cuts then can’t be a bad thing. 

 

 

Was predicted there was going to be a big deficit in revenue so its great news if that hasn't happened. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Don't worry. If and when a new referendum approaches, I feel capable of plumbing even lower depths. Keep the faith.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

GERS figures coming along shortly. Remember when Kate Forbes and Derek McKay promised their alternative figures.... 2 years and still waiting for that pro Indy economic case.

Called it last week. 

 

GERS out Friday and you and your buddies will be all over this thread like a tramp on hot chips.

 

Personally can't wait to see how big our imaginary deficit is this time. 

[Mikey1874]

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Called it last week. 

 

GERS out Friday and you and your buddies will be all over this thread like a tramp on hot chips.

 

Personally can't wait to see how big our imaginary deficit is this time. 

It's fine Kate will be along any year now with the more palatable ones for you nationalists 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Never mind GERS. 

Should Scotland be an independent country? 
No just let this lot influence us and sit doon  

I really don't think someone so spectacularly unlikeable should be advocating more guns.

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

It's fine Kate will be along any year now with the more palatable ones for you nationalists 

Not just Kate.

 

Here's a simple explainer or an explainer for the simple.

 

Have at it.

 

If you want to add some UK GERS data to the conversation then I'm sure there would be a lot of us most interested to see it. 

[DETTY29]

If Scotland can't be independent then let's do away with whole lot, lock, stock and barrell.

 

No England or Wales either.  No separate sporting nations or anything.

 

Just Great Britain and Northern Ireland or the (dis) United Kingdom of...

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

41 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Not just Kate.

 

Here's a simple explainer or an explainer for the simple.

 

Have at it.

 

If you want to add some UK GERS data to the conversation then I'm sure there would be a lot of us most interested to see it. 

but, but...nope got nothing and neither will Elmer 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

11 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

but, but...nope got nothing and neither will Elmer 

 

Be all over it when they're released, providing no insight but plenty memes. 

 

The Harry Dunne to his Lloyd Christmas will be on too offering the P5 economic perspective. 

 

Cannae wait. 😎

[Ainsley Harriott]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Not just Kate.

 

Here's a simple explainer or an explainer for the simple.

 

Have at it.

 

If you want to add some UK GERS data to the conversation then I'm sure there would be a lot of us most interested to see it. 

Phantom Power eh seems legit

[Unknown user]

11 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Phantom Power eh seems legit

 

Phantom power's a thing in audio technology. Some microphones have active circuitry that require a power supply to operate. This is sent down the mic cable from the board or preamp, so the cable's carrying both power supply and audio signal.

 

He's a film maker, apparently he knows his tech too.

[The Mighty Thor]

23 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Phantom Power eh seems legit

He's put forward a better analysis of the GERS numbers than you have so far.

 

The UK GERS numbers would be good to see right? 

 

HS2, Crossrail, trust and trace, PPE plus all the other shenanigans with a contracting economy 😂

[Konrad von Carstein]

35 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Be all over it when they're released, providing no insight but plenty memes. 

 

The Harry Dunne to his Lloyd Christmas will be on too offering the P5 economic perspective. 

 

Cannae wait. 😎

Had to Google the names

 

[manaliveits105]

Honest John Swinney refused 4 times tonight to answer Colin Mckays question why Scotlands deficit 12% of GDP was double that of the UKs 

anybody who votes for the snp really has to take a look at themselves .

[Don Dan]

COMMENT

Gers report: Record is not one the SNP likes hearing

August 24 2022, The Times

The annual Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (Gers) report is like an old vinyl record you listen to at the same time every year. Each time there’s a slightly different noise and crackle, but still the same song.

Scotland gets a very good fiscal deal by sharing resources with the rest of Britain but we’ve all got so used to hearing the numbers that it’s easy to forget how big they are.

Almost £2,000 per head more in public spending than elsewhere in Britain, combined with lower tax revenues, means Scotland has a very big deficit. Tucked away at the back of the report is a remarkable fact: in the five years to 2021 18 per cent of the UK’s borrowing was for the benefit of Scotland, which has just 8 per cent of the population.

The noise on this year’s record included an increase in oil revenues, as oil prices climbed. But we know now that high energy prices are a blight not a benefit. The oil uptick concealed a worrying drop in income tax, due to weak growth in the Scottish economy. Over the past decade it’s fallen below even the poor UK performance. Unless that failure is rectified, revenues will keep declining and public services will suffer.

Poorer UK regions share the resources of the wealthier parts, so they don’t have poor public services just because they don’t raise much tax. But Scotland isn’t (yet) one of those poorer parts.

The support we enjoy mostly goes into higher public spending. Thanks to the Barnett formula, Holyrood’s budget is 25-30 per cent more than equivalent services in England. Northern mayors and NHS managers would give their eye teeth for 25 per cent more money, but what do people in Scotland get from it? Certainly not 25 per cent more schools or hospitals.

A couple of billion pounds goes on making services free, for those who could afford them as well as those who can’t. Similar sums have upped some social security benefits; good news for many but the money can’t be spent on anything else. Gers also reveals we spend much more than levels in England on (often Labour-instigated) PFI deals. That’s before we get on to ferries.

Every year politicians argue about Gers and independence. SNP ministers contort the numbers to suggest it would somehow all be fine, but clearly a separated Scotland couldn’t afford today’s public services, not for decades, if ever. This is a fruitless debate. When you hear the Gers record, ask instead what we get for the money, and how we can grow the economy to get more of it.

Professor Jim Gallagher is chairman of Our Scottish Future

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