TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

[Spookie]

3 hours ago, Bob Loblaw said:

Before we discuss any extensions, we need to make sure we can consistently sell out the current ground and that this years ST sales aren't a flash in the pan. Given the fact it's the first time it's ever happened it's a genuine possibility we don't hit it again next year, thus negating the need for anything bigger. If we do it 3/4 seasons in a row it's time to look at it.

This,  if we fail to secure europe again then there will be a drop In sales for sure, Its key we recruit well in this window to help us achieve another windfall next season. Do that consistently for 3/4 seasons then the club would look into upgrading Tynecastle 

 

Build an exciting football team and they will come,  but you have to be consistent

[Watt-Zeefuik]

36 minutes ago, North Berwick Jambo said:

Easily fit a shiny new 30,000+ stadium in Saughton Park with plenty room left over for parking & other facilities. The overall  area from the running track to the gardens and over to Balgreen is massive. Train line next door for a new station, roads on three sides making it easier to reach the bypass, Glasgow road etc. Oh and I suppose it’s still technically on Gorgie Road.  

 

Sure, and where do we find the £80-90m to build it?

[Libertarian]

42 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Exactly. I don't mind having 5k OF fans if it means 25k Hearts fans can be there.

 

(This of course doesn't override my earlier post about financial impossibility in the near future, but anyway. . .)

I suppose that the trick is to get right the balance of developing the stadium as well as the team to ensure that the club continues to progress 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

8 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

I suppose that the trick is to get right the balance of developing the stadium as well as the team to ensure that the club continues to progress 

 

Yes. Fortunately the answer to both is "consolidate our place in Europe." If we're getting to the group stages more often than not, and making the EL group stages a few times a decade, both our finances and our support should grow together.

[Rogue Daddy]

35 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Yes. Fortunately the answer to both is "consolidate our place in Europe." If we're getting to the group stages more often than not, and making the EL group stages a few times a decade, both our finances and our support should grow together.

Yes, absolutely agree… and it’s difficult not to get carried away… but IMO, I really feel we’ve turned a massive corner the last couple of seasons. It’s different to seasons past. As I said above, Fan Ownership, FOH, no debt… 3/4th should absolutely be our worst finishing position(s) going forward. We’ve given ourselves a fantastic platform… we’re so much better run than everyone else. 
 

FTH

[Hectormasson]

6 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Yeah... but would the cost for an extra 4k be worth it? As much as I love Tynie, if it definitely can't be upgraded to 30k then, as you say, it would have to be a move... and I think 30K is a good number that we should be aspiring to.

Get a bigger ground than the wee team, and blow them up , bigger stadium a must, big team big ground,   hearts are edinburghs team, fth always and forever......🇶🇦🇶🇦🇶🇦🇶🇦🇶🇦🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻🙌🙌🙌

[OTT]

18 minutes ago, Hectormasson said:

Get a bigger ground than the wee team, and blow them up , bigger stadium a must, big team big ground,   hearts are edinburghs team, fth always and forever......🇶🇦🇶🇦🇶🇦🇶🇦🇶🇦🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻🙌🙌🙌

 

I think just for a mentality thing it would be good to have the biggest non-OF stadium in the country. Aberdeen and Hibs stadiums are both bigger. Yet we're bigger than both of them and have the potential to be a lot bigger. 

 

Simple stuff like not being able to get seats together will put off more casual fans. You want to go to a game with 2 of your mates? Shit out of luck. Appreciate the caution some have, but you need some ambition too - if we're looking at the same situation next year then alarm bells should be going that the stadium isn't big enough. 

 

I think this year is going to be a fantastic acid test for our European games and cat A fixtures. Can we sell out all of them? Absolutely yes. Demand for the games against the smaller sides in the league will probably be high too and this could be the really interesting thing to look at. Before Covid and Levein went tits up, we were averaging 17-18k finishing midtable. We're going to be right back at that and in a stadium with a capacity of 19.8k, thats a sign we need more seats. 

[Libertarian]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

I think just for a mentality thing it would be good to have the biggest non-OF stadium in the country. Aberdeen and Hibs stadiums are both bigger. Yet we're bigger than both of them and have the potential to be a lot bigger. 

 

Simple stuff like not being able to get seats together will put off more casual fans. You want to go to a game with 2 of your mates? Shit out of luck. Appreciate the caution some have, but you need some ambition too - if we're looking at the same situation next year then alarm bells should be going that the stadium isn't big enough. 

 

I think this year is going to be a fantastic acid test for our European games and cat A fixtures. Can we sell out all of them? Absolutely yes. Demand for the games against the smaller sides in the league will probably be high too and this could be the really interesting thing to look at. Before Covid and Levein went tits up, we were averaging 17-18k finishing midtable. We're going to be right back at that and in a stadium with a capacity of 19.8k, thats a sign we need more seats. 

Couldn't agree more. We need at least another 6,000 seats.

[Rocky jamboa]

I think 20k is about right for us. Possibly this season we will need to turn fans away but that's the first time that's happened since the 2005/06 season. 

 

Do we have the option of moving any glamour euro ties to murrayfield or do you need to stick to the 1 stadium? I.e. if we drew a man utd

[Thomaso]

3 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Yes. Fortunately the answer to both is "consolidate our place in Europe." If we're getting to the group stages more often than not, and making the EL group stages a few times a decade, both our finances and our support should grow together.

The key is what happens on the park and right now that’s where our resources need to go.

[Hectormasson]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

 

I think just for a mentality thing it would be good to have the biggest non-OF stadium in the country. Aberdeen and Hibs stadiums are both bigger. Yet we're bigger than both of them and have the potential to be a lot bigger. 

 

Simple stuff like not being able to get seats together will put off more casual fans. You want to go to a game with 2 of your mates? Shit out of luck. Appreciate the caution some have, but you need some ambition too - if we're looking at the same situation next year then alarm bells should be going that the stadium isn't big enough. 

 

I think this year is going to be a fantastic acid test for our European games and cat A fixtures. Can we sell out all of them? Absolutely yes. Demand for the games against the smaller sides in the league will probably be high too and this could be the really interesting thing to look at. Before Covid and Levein went tits up, we were averaging 17-18k finishing midtable. We're going to be right back at that and in a stadium with a capacity of 19.8k, thats a sign we need more seats. 

Totally agree ,always thought 20 k was too small, we were getting 23+25k in the mid 80s v dunfmline and clydebank, and regular decent gates,if the team was winning   like to see us make it a capacity of upto25/30 k if it  can be done , play semis ,maybe music etc and the odd international ?  I'd like it so its more possible to pay at gate as a walk up.or something similar , the fans are there,  and we could get more in .....up to hearts to keep winning,and I'm sure we will  let's hope we do..

[FarmerTweedy]

13 hours ago, Armageddon said:

Folk saying we can’t fill in the corners, they put a man on the moon FFS 😬

Absolutely nobody is saying we can't fill in the corners. People with any sense are saying it wouldn't be cost effective to do so.

[Toggie88]

2 minutes ago, Hectormasson said:

Totally agree ,always thought 20 k was too small, we were getting 23+25k in the mid 80s v dunfmline and clydebank, and regular decent gates,if the team was winning   like to see us make it a capacity of upto25/30 k if it  can be done , play semis ,maybe music etc and the odd international ?  I'd like it so its more possible to pay at gate as a walk up.or something similar , the fans are there,  and we could get more in .....up to hearts to keep winning,and I'm sure we will  let's hope we do..

Agree with this. If our long term aim to compete with the OF, then we need room to grow. 
 

There’s no shortage of potential new fans with the expected growth of the Lothians in the next decades, plus a tourist/visitor market which could be capitalized on (sat next to a group over from Holland at the Motherwell game), but if there’s no chance of them getting a ticket it’s just lost revenue. 
 

 

[FarmerTweedy]

14 hours ago, Texaco said:

Agree with all this. In the meantime in times of unprecedented success, although not popular, Murrayfield is an option for large European games. I've been to see CF Montreal play and they use the 19000 Saputo stadium for most games and the Olympic stadium 61000 next door for the odd big play off type game and this works well. Caveat is it would have to be cost effective for the club and we have a team that's comfortable to play and win there.

I might be wrong, but I'm fairly sure we can't pick and choose where we play each european game, we have to either play them all at Tynecastle or all at Murrayfield (the caveat being it might be the case in some european competitions that if we got far enough, Tynecastle might not meet the criteria for the later stages and we might have to switch to Murrayfield at that point). 

 

Whether I'm right or not, we'll be playing at Tynecastle unless we're not allowed to!

[Bungalow Bill]

I’ve mentioned it on other threads. The club need to find ways of keeping those who can’t get tickets engaged with the club, we also need to generate revenue from them. 

[FarmerTweedy]

13 hours ago, tazhearts said:

IF it was even possible to "fill the corners" how many extra seats would that give us? 

Less than a lot of people think!

[Allowayjambo1874]

9 minutes ago, Hectormasson said:

Totally agree ,always thought 20 k was too small, we were getting 23+25k in the mid 80s v dunfmline and clydebank, and regular decent gates,if the team was winning   like to see us make it a capacity of upto25/30 k if it  can be done , play semis ,maybe music etc and the odd international ?  I'd like it so its more possible to pay at gate as a walk up.or something similar , the fans are there,  and we could get more in .....up to hearts to keep winning,and I'm sure we will  let's hope we do..

Sorry but that’s just not true.

 

if you don’t believe me check out London Hearts.

 

we’ve only just scraped 20k once v Clydebank which was the game before Dens when we thought there was a chance the league could be clinched, the rest of the time around 10k crowds. 
 

only one cup match broke 20k v Dunfermline in 1988 rest of time between 10-15k.

 

It’s a bit knee-jerk for all this discussion about spending money we don’t have on expanding a stadium that in two years might be fit for purpose capacity wise if we have a poor season.

 

We absolutely need to let this ride for 4-5 years and if we are in the same situation we are now year on year then it’s a fair shout to expand or relocate but right now people need to settle down a bit.

 

[Bull's-eye]

11 minutes ago, Apache Mal said:

I’ve mentioned it on other threads. The club need to find ways of keeping those who can’t get tickets engaged with the club, we also need to generate revenue from them. 

 

Nonsense.

 

Success on the pitch defines how we move forward.

That's how football works.

 

For those who haven't got a season ticket, tough.

Suck it up and do what you can to get on the list and get involved.

[Bull's-eye]

The stadium is perfect the way it is for the league we play in.

With zero outside investment and a league not fit for purpose the financial outlay to upgrade Tynecastle would be a waste of money.

 

A level playing field is all we need to get outside investment. It'll never happen.

 

Be happy and proud of our club and stadium the way it is ❤️

[OTT]

30 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Success on the pitch defines how we move forward.

That's how football works.

 

For those who haven't got a season ticket, tough.

Suck it up and do what you can to get on the list and get involved.

 

Completely disagree. @Apache Mal is right about engagement, we're in the midst of a cost of living crisis where people are struggling financially. There will be a lot of fans that are more casual and can only afford to take in a handful of games a season. Season tickets aren't cheap and the up front cost for many is a barrier. Saying tough luck isn't good enough IMO. You need to look to maintain their engagement or they'll forget to come back. Got to remember football is competing with a lot of other cheaper activities. 

 

I want to be clear though, this is an amazing problem to have. Like, you want this kind of problem. Rather have not enough seats to sell than to struggle to sell what we have. The trend since Budge has taken over largely (with the exception of covid) in terms of attendance has been going up but we've approached our ceiling due to the capacity. Fair enough, accept the view of 'do it again' but if next season we have the same problem then I think it will be time to look at what can be done to fix that before the club loses more money!! Since ultimately that means better players and competing at a higher level which should be what everyone wants. 

 

May also be worth considering the supply vs demand problem. If season tickets are sold out and there is a waiting list, I would expect to see a rise in the cost for a season ticket the following year. Do season ticket holders want to see a rise in their cost to support the team or do they want to get behind increasing capacity by say, 20% which would solve the problem and increase the clubs revenue. 

[Armageddon]

What if we reduced the press area and the players seats behind the dug outs - could be a UEFA requirement right enough

[Section Q]

Our success on the pitch will decide our attendance and capacity. Also the benefits of a well run club and the feel good factor for the fans. I don't want to see Tynie altered too much, and definitely not open to a move, but a capacity of 24-25k sounds about right.

[Bull's-eye]

6 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Completely disagree. @Apache Mal is right about engagement, we're in the midst of a cost of living crisis where people are struggling financially. There will be a lot of fans that are more casual and can only afford to take in a handful of games a season. Season tickets aren't cheap and the up front cost for many is a barrier. Saying tough luck isn't good enough IMO. You need to look to maintain their engagement or they'll forget to come back. Got to remember football is competing with a lot of other cheaper activities. 

 

I want to be clear though, this is an amazing problem to have. Like, you want this kind of problem. Rather have not enough seats to sell than to struggle to sell what we have. The trend since Budge has taken over largely (with the exception of covid) in terms of attendance has been going up but we've approached our ceiling due to the capacity. Fair enough, accept the view of 'do it again' but if next season we have the same problem then I think it will be time to look at what can be done to fix that before the club loses more money!! Since ultimately that means better players and competing at a higher level which should be what everyone wants. 

 

May also be worth considering the supply vs demand problem. If season tickets are sold out and there is a waiting list, I would expect to see a rise in the cost for a season ticket the following year. Do season ticket holders want to see a rise in their cost to support the team or do they want to get behind increasing capacity by say, 20% which would solve the problem and increase the clubs revenue. 

 

Comedy from start to finish, great effort 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Hectormasson]

7 hours ago, Allowayjambo1874 said:

Sorry but that’s just not true.

 

if you don’t believe me check out London Hearts.

 

we’ve only just scraped 20k once v Clydebank which was the game before Dens when we thought there was a chance the league could be clinched, the rest of the time around 10k crowds. 
 

only one cup match broke 20k v Dunfermline in 1988 rest of time between 10-15k.

 

It’s a bit knee-jerk for all this discussion about spending money we don’t have on expanding a stadium that in two years might be fit for purpose capacity wise if we have a poor season.

 

We absolutely need to let this ride for 4-5 years and if we are in the same situation we are now year on year then it’s a fair shout to expand or relocate but right now people need to settle down a bit.

 

We got a lot of big gates then, more,,15k plus old firm and hibs and aberdeen, well over 20k in a lot of games  well in cup plus more, I was there at them all  ,   there was shit gates also,  but I'm talking when playing ok ,

[washniklaw]

Having read this thread over the past couple of day I think its really important that the student accommodation proposed for the old high school site is stalled. Truthfully, I believe we as a club are close to the position where we could purchase that site. We could redevelop with the community of Gorgie in mind rather than property developers looking at a fast buck from Student flats.

 

Strategically that sites offers us options. Pushing the school end back, extending the current stand, car parking options, better access points and exit to our 4 stands.  
 

With the clubs ethos we could partner with any number of companies to create something that benefits local people as well as the club.

 

The Wheatfield pitch would also be a target for purchase but at the moment there doesn’t seem to be the same time pressure.

[kingantti1874]

41 minutes ago, washniklaw said:

Having read this thread over the past couple of day I think its really important that the student accommodation proposed for the old high school site is stalled. Truthfully, I believe we as a club are close to the position where we could purchase that site. We could redevelop with the community of Gorgie in mind rather than property developers looking at a fast buck from Student flats.

 

Strategically that sites offers us options. Pushing the school end back, extending the current stand, car parking options, better access points and exit to our 4 stands.  
 

With the clubs ethos we could partner with any number of companies to create something that benefits local people as well as the club.

 

The Wheatfield pitch would also be a target for purchase but at the moment there doesn’t seem to be the same time pressure.

still not sure why we were no in for it already. 

[washniklaw]

31 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

still not sure why we were no in for it already. 

I really hope there is movement behind the scenes that we might not know about yet. It looks like an obvious strategic move for the club.
 

We have good people at the club who are clear that they want the club to grow. It will be tough to do that without land in which we can expand. 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, washniklaw said:

I really hope there is movement behind the scenes that we might not know about yet. It looks like an obvious strategic move for the club.
 

We have good people at the club who are clear that they want the club to grow. It will be tough to do that without land in which we can expand. 

 

We can't expand, attendance is capped due to the ethanol tanks at the distillery.

[Nobreath]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

We can't expand, attendance is capped due to the ethanol tanks at the distillery.

 

Would that not affect the potential for student flats?

[Unknown user]

Just now, Nobreath said:

 

Would that not affect the potential for student flats?

 

No, we're talking a couple of hundred students vs tens of thousands of fans.

[Bungalow Bill]

26 minutes ago, washniklaw said:

I really hope there is movement behind the scenes that we might not know about yet. It looks like an obvious strategic move for the club.
 

We have good people at the club who are clear that they want the club to grow. It will be tough to do that without land in which we can expand. 

We wouldn’t get planning permission to do anything with it. It’s being allocated for student accommodation. 

[OTT]

3 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Comedy from start to finish, great effort 🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

If you want to disagree with what I've said, please pick a point and tell me why I'm wrong. 

29 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

We can't expand, attendance is capped due to the ethanol tanks at the distillery.

 

IIRC the distillery quoted us £1.5m to move them several years ago. Its probably a bit more expensive now, but would be interesting to explore further. They wouldn't quote us a price and not be prepared to do it IMO so could well still be on the table. 

[taylor75]

Should the foh try block the sale of the High school  for student  flats are try purchase the land ?

[Libertarian]

Yes to both points.

[Boyces beard]

Sure i read somewhere that the student flat idea was no longer going ahead, could have just made that up though.

[John Findlay]

3 minutes ago, Boyces beard said:

Sure i read somewhere that the student flat idea was no longer going ahead, could have just made that up though.

No you haven't made that up. I too believe that idea has been knocked on the head.

[Jambo-Fox]

12 minutes ago, taylor75 said:

Should the foh try block the sale of the High school  for student  flats are try purchase the land ?

Yes! What’s the proposal to make it happen?

[jambo-in-furness]

Definitely.

[Boyces beard]

13 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

No you haven't made that up. I too believe that idea has been knocked on the head.

Cheers John, we should definitely be making enquiries regarding the land, even if it was just used for parking for the time being. If we are ever in a financial position to deal with the brewery regarding moving the tanks it would give us huge scope for development in the future.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Boyces beard

[OTT]

Just now, John Findlay said:

No you haven't made that up. I too believe that idea has been knocked on the head.

 

If thats true John thats fantastic news. 

 

I really think Hearts need to buy that site.  Listed building status is a big obstacle but Budge and her team have shown they can get the job done, they've built a lot of credibility in the community and I think if they went to the council with proposals they'd be heard out (unlike Vlad or the pie man). We saw it with the stand, they moved quickly and managed work with the council to get the stand sorted before the Nursery created a hurdle we wouldn't be able to overcome. Its not even the full school that would need to be pulled down, literally just a side bit that you can't really see from the street.  (check google maps, its like 2 sections behind the stand which wouldn't change the visuals of the school). 

 

Even if we couldn't do much with the site for 5 years, I'd still support buying it because its about protecting our future at Tynecastle. We don't want more obstacles being created. 

[Sooks]

The developers sound like a parcel of rogues they are refusing to engage with the living rent reps and the community but have been lobbying and calling the councillors every day

 

May be Anderson will buy the site and use it for some thing that benefits the community

[Bull's-eye]

52 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

If you want to disagree with what I've said, please pick a point and tell me why I'm wrong. 

 

IIRC the distillery quoted us £1.5m to move them several years ago. Its probably a bit more expensive now, but would be interesting to explore further. They wouldn't quote us a price and not be prepared to do it IMO so could well still be on the table. 

 

When you started your comedy sketch by quoting the cost of living crisis a few days after the stadium sells out you deserve to be laughed at. 

 

[DETTY29]

I'd also heard there may be some challenge with the student accommodation and it was mentioned here ages too.  But someone countered by saying it was in final stages of planning sign off.

 

Here is the proposal in the architects site, 545 residents, car free.

 

https://michaellaird.co.uk/projects/former-tynecastle-high-school/#:~:text=The redevelopment of the former,which will be sensitively refurbished.

 

I think a key image is this one and what parts of the old building will be retained.

 

If and a huge if we could do something I do think at least the front facades etc could not be knocked down and would have to remain.

 

 

 

[OTT]

4 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

When you started your comedy sketch by quoting the cost of living crisis a few days after the stadium sells out you deserve to be laughed at. 

 

 

So the cost of living crisis isn't happening? Fuel and energy prices aren't through the roof? I don't know if you're aware but the few hundred quid it costs for a season ticket is a lot of money to some folk. There will be some fans that can't afford to go regularly at the best of times, maybe 1 or 2 games is all they can afford and look forward to. I think its a shame and a worry to lock these fans out because of capacity restrictions (the point of this thread). I think if you spoke to anyone at the club or any club really, they'd tell you that once someone stops going, getting them to start going again is difficult. 

 

The idea that not everyone can afford a season ticket isn't a controversial or a laughable point. 

 

I'm happy to see the club selling out, I think its great but I think if the same thing happens next season then I think the club needs to think about expansion to ensure walk ups are catered for too.

[Jambo_Gaz]

26 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

I'd also heard there may be some challenge with the student accommodation and it was mentioned here ages too.  But someone countered by saying it was in final stages of planning sign off.

 

Here is the proposal in the architects site, 545 residents, car free.

 

https://michaellaird.co.uk/projects/former-tynecastle-high-school/#:~:text=The redevelopment of the former,which will be sensitively refurbished.

 

I think a key image is this one and what parts of the old building will be retained.

 

If and a huge if we could do something I do think at least the front facades etc could not be knocked down and would have to remain.

 

 

 

Car free...

 

Aka we don't want to waste valuable profits on parking so we'll just play up the environmental angle and look good. 

[Famous 1874]

I wonder if the board have even talked about buying that land. 

 

If we could get it, would make it very likely that our long term future will be in Gorgie. 

 

Just need the brewery to sell up next. Wonder if we could pick up the car park behind the wheatfield too 

[Bungalow Bill]

Category B listed building. They’ll likely have to keep the facade when developing into student flats. 
 

We wouldn’t get planning permission to pull down the buildings. Why are folk being obtuse to this?

[Ked]

As far as I know its still going ahead.

The attention in the Gorgie area is currently focused on the Westfield student flats.

There's a real reek of brown envelopes about both sites.

Apparently the Tynecastle site deemed not fit for social housing due to vague excuses such as air pollution but OK  for student flats.

There's also plans in place for student accommodation above the Scotmid shop on Gorgie.

Meanwhile a 1 bedroom flat is around 900pcm .

Also near completion is the Murieston vrescent student block.

 

There's also talk of student flats along at the old telecom site.

It's reckoned at current rates Gorgie will have a 50% student population.

Which could have some benefits but the affordable housing situation in the community is a disgrace .

And mirrors what has happened to an extent down Leith.

 

Like I said the reek of brown envelopes 

[the general]

If the takeover had been completed earlier we would have bought it

[wavydavy]

2 hours ago, Nobreath said:

 

Would that not affect the potential for student flats?

 

Of course not it's ECC planning that grant premission so they can make the rules or interpret them to suit what they want just like the SFA.

 

So currently anything to do with cycleways and buliding flats seems to get the green light no matter how many people it inconveniences.

 

Remember folks the mantra nowadays is everything is done to suit the minority. If you happen to be one of the majority then too bad.