SNP and Greens coalition.

[JackLadd]

26 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s not about the result they wanted. Scottish independence has never went away since 1707. Not really or there wouldn’t be an SNP for starters. It’s ebbed and flowed at different times and at this moment it’s higher than usual or it has been for a good number of years. You can’t just tell it to go away that’s why I believe WM telling us we won’t be having one is fuel.  There has to be positive case for the union and it’s not really coming. 
Obviously I accept that a positive case for indy isnt floating for you either. 
I fully accepted the No and I’m not hell bent on Indy but things have changed since 2014 and this tory govt lurches further right and more bonkers all the time. Again I appreciate that some people don’t agree with me and never will. 
Fair dos. 
 

 

Lurching to the right like imposing a 1.5% social care tax that the snp voted against in WM? SNP propaganda is laughable.

[Des Lynam]

Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

I wouldn't be dealing with it. That's up to civil servants and economists. I couldn't care less about it, hasn't bothered any other nations.

It would be a major problem for Scotland. We can’t be in a monetary union with the rest of the UK because of Brexit. We could create a new currency and peg it to the pound using a currency board but would have to adopt the euro eventually. People have a sentimental attachment to the pound. We’d have no say over interest rates and no lender of last resort. We could have a new currency and an independent central bank but that would require strict financial responsibility. 

[XB52]

20 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

It would be a major problem for Scotland. We can’t be in a monetary union with the rest of the UK because of Brexit. We could create a new currency and peg it to the pound using a currency board but would have to adopt the euro eventually. People have a sentimental attachment to the pound. We’d have no say over interest rates and no lender of last resort. We could have a new currency and an independent central bank but that would require strict financial responsibility. 

Strict financial responsibility like the UK 😁😁😁😁

[JudyJudyJudy]

36 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I wouldn't be dealing with it. That's up to civil servants and economists. I couldn't care less about it, hasn't bothered any other nations.

“ couldn’t care less “ about a fundamental issue regarding currency ? It’s at the heart of the economy . Extraordinary 

[Roxy Hearts]

6 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

“ couldn’t care less “ about a fundamental issue regarding currency ? It’s at the heart of the economy . Extraordinary 

Yes! Scotland will fall into a hole in the ground and we'll have to use dirt. You can worry about it I won't. Enjoy your day. 

[The Mighty Thor]

7 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I'm not using Nationalist in derogatory manner at all. 

Scotland and their people made a choice, but that obviously doesn't matter because it wasn't the result that some people wanted.

 

Your point about playing billy big baws is laughable, Scots have been more than valuable to the British Empire, probably more than the English and they know it.

The British state is the Scottish, English Welsh and Northern Irish state

Technically the British state is England, Scotland and Wales. The United Kingdom adds Northern Ireland. 

 

The Billy Big baws argument is a viable one and the mentality behind it forms and has formed the decision making,  domestically and internationally, of Conservative and Unionist governments for decades. 

When your starting point is a Victorian era empire mentality your relevance in 21st global terms diminishes.

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Technically the British state is England, Scotland and Wales. The United Kingdom adds Northern Ireland. 

 

The Billy Big baws argument is a viable one and the mentality behind it forms and has formed the decision making,  domestically and internationally, of Conservative and Unionist governments for decades. 

When your starting point is a Victorian era empire mentality your relevance in 21st global terms diminishes.

Thanks for getting my point MT.

[Ron Burgundy]

30 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

He’s not taking the fall very well. In answer why its tweeted out because its funny AF.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19585125.humza-yousaf-spat-bbcs-glenn-campbell-mobility-scooter-fall-film/?ref=ar

That video is 30 seconds too short, I wanted to see him struggle to get up and his angry scowl.

He's fast becoming my favourite politician. Captain Chaos.

[jack D and coke]

51 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

He’s not taking the fall very well. In answer why its tweeted out because its funny AF.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19585125.humza-yousaf-spat-bbcs-glenn-campbell-mobility-scooter-fall-film/?ref=ar

How much would people have laughed if that was Johnson, Gove, Rees Mogg or wee Dougie Ross. I’d have pished myself. 
Humza is an arsehole of a man and get it right up him. 

Edited September 18, 2021 by jack D and coke

[Governor Tarkin]

9 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

It's not about flags, it's about belief in your nation and its people. 

 

If you look at it objectively, you can't slip a fag paper between the two. 

 

The very notion that a 'nation' should abrubtly end at some ephemeral demarcation, exiting purely as an artefact of a contentious historical process, is quite frankly, absurd.

 

Sir Cyril Radcliffe eat your heart out.

 

[henryheart]

My concern over the concept of nationalism is how people use it. We all have to come from somewhere and it is not unreasonable for people in a geographical area to see themselves as a group and for them to use that group to interact between themselves and with other groups. The underlying reason for the group is the wellbeing of the people within it, primarily on an economic and social benefit. Where it falls apart for me is when nationalism is used as a divisive or confrontational tool; divisive when it seeks to alienate people within the group because of their views, or confrontational because the group seeks to expand its powers or be derogatory to other groups. 

 

My problem with the current approach to Scottish Nationalism is that for many of the hardcore you are either in or out - there is no half measure and any opposite view is just shouted down; there is no scope for debate, so someone who is Scottish but does not agree with the position of political independence is seen as the enemy. This expands itself into confrontation with non Scots seen as an enemy to Scotland - namely England and the English. This may be extreme, but the dangerous thing is that is the norm for some. In days gone by they were seen as nutcase extremists, but now it is less the case.

 

Me - I'm an internationalist. I don't frankly care where anyone comes from and stand by the notion that the cause of all war is either one or both of nationalism and/or religion, so they should be avoided and downplayed at all costs.           

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Yes! Scotland will fall into a hole in the ground and we'll have to use dirt. You can worry about it I won't. Enjoy your day. 

I assume you must be financially comfortable then unlike many in Scotland ? Even those in work 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

 

He’s not taking the fall very well. In answer why its tweeted out because its funny AF.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19585125.humza-yousaf-spat-bbcs-glenn-campbell-mobility-scooter-fall-film/?ref=ar

That doesn’t surprise me . He has zero sense of humour 

[Mars plastic]

13 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

There will never be independence if you keep up the you’re not properly Scottish unless you vote yes bollocks. 
 

I do agree that if we were such a financial burden then why bother about us even if no UK government would want that on their record. 
 

People care about their financial security and not some freedom from England nonsense. 
 

Would you want Scotland to rejoin the EU? And how would you deal with the currency issue? 
 

I voted yes last time but would want a much clearer economic plan going forward to vote the same way again. 

How can Scotland ‘rejoin’ the EU if they’ve never been in it? 

[Roxy Hearts]

19 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I assume you must be financially comfortable then unlike many in Scotland ? Even those in work 

I'm an ordinary working bloke. I'm not financially comfortable either, just paying my way like most folk. I'm not looking for an argument JM48. I just tend to think once all the propaganda is over realpolitik will kick in and grown up discussions/negotiations take place. I understand people's concerns but I wish we could have the honest details from Westminster. Just my opinion. Have a really good day 👍

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

If you look at it objectively, you can't slip a fag paper between the two. 

 

The very notion that a 'nation' should abrubtly end at some ephemeral demarcation, exiting purely as an artefact of a contentious historical process, is quite frankly, absurd.

 

Sir Cyril Radcliffe eat your heart out.

 

A wee bit word salad GT 🤣. I was reading that with a Peter Cushing voice!

[JudyJudyJudy]

30 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm an ordinary working bloke. I'm not financially comfortable either, just paying my way like most folk. I'm not looking for an argument JM48. I just tend to think once all the propaganda is over realpolitik will kick in and grown up discussions/negotiations take place. I understand people's concerns but I wish we could have the honest details from Westminster. Just my opinion. Have a really good day 👍

👍👍👍 like I’ve said I’m on the fence about independence and the main concern is the economy after a yes vote ( if it happened ) I agree with every other reason / argument for Indy in particular Scottish people should have a Scottish Govt and not ruled by Westminster 

[Governor Tarkin]

43 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

A wee bit word salad GT 🤣. I was reading that with a Peter Cushing voice!

 

It makes perfect sense apart from the typo, but I'll give you the Peter Cushing bit.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Is the the coalition starting to bear fruit (or not)?

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/17/scotland-misses-freeport-snp-walks-talks/

 

Scotland is to miss out on a freeport after SNP ministers walked out on talks with UK officials about a joint agreement to establish new trade hubs.

The UK Government is now set to push ahead with plans to sideline the nationalist administration and invite bids for a single Scottish freeport, which it will establish unilaterally, after negotiations collapsed.

Officials had been discussing a deal that would have seen two ports in Scotland receive the special status, with the scheme a key part of Boris Johnson’s vision for boosting trade in post-Brexit Britain. 

Freeports receive significant tax breaks and exemptions from some customs rules, and advocates claim that would create thousands of jobs and boost local economies.

However, the SNP ministers demanded that the hubs were rebranded “greenports” north of the border and that operators must agree to meet certain environmental and employment standards, claiming the internationally renowned freeports brand was “tarnished” by links to smuggling, crime and tax evasion.

The UK Government saw the proposed changes as cosmetic and as part of an SNP attempt to claim credit for the scheme while unfairly presenting Scottish ports as superior to the eight sites that have already been chosen for England, including Teesside, Plymouth and Liverpool.

The failure to reach a deal means that a single Scottish freeport will now be at a disadvantage to counterparts in England, as while most of the tax breaks on offer are controlled by the Treasury, some, such as a reduction in Scotland’s equivalent to stamp duty, would need to be agreed by the SNP.

 

On Friday, Ivan McKee, the SNP trade minister, blamed the UK Government for the collapse in talks and claimed the Scottish Government would now “take forward plans to further develop our greenport model”.

 

‘This is a missed opportunity’

A UK Government source said: “We remain 100 per cent committed to freeports which have the potential to boost the Scottish economy and create highly paid jobs.

“We are deeply disappointed that the Scottish Government has chosen not to work with us on the scheme.

“A Scottish freeport will be a huge success but this is a missed opportunity. It is for the Scottish Government to explain why they have chosen not to work with us.”

Dundee, Port of Cromarty Firth and Aberdeen are among the Scottish ports that are desperate to obtain the special status. 

UK ministers expect Scottish ports to embrace the opportunity to apply to become Scotland’s only freeport, which they believe will neuter inevitable SNP claims that they are being “imposed” by Tory ministers who are trampling over the devolution settlement.

In a letter to Ivan McKee, the SNP trade minister, sent earlier this month, Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, claimed a deal between the governments was close with £120m in tax reliefs on offer over five years.

He confirmed two freeports would have been set up in Scotland under the deal, with the Scottish Government to have had a joint role in deciding winning bids, and “fair work practices” among the factors to be considered.

However, he made clear that he would not give into Mr McKee’s demand to change their name to “greenports” or insist on payment of the real living wage. He also said the SNP must make “a comparable tax offer in devolved policy areas as is in place for the English freeports”.

Mr McKee said he was unwilling to compromise on his conditions around “fair work and net zero”. 

He added: “It is difficult to comprehend why UK Ministers would seek to dilute a strong commitment to fair work, including payment of the real living wage, when seeking to implement their freeport policy in Scotland.

“The Scottish Government, therefore, has no option but to take forward plans to further develop our greenport model to meet the specific needs of Scotland’s economy.”

A spokesman for the UK Government said its freeport model already “embraces the highest employment and environmental standards”.

 

[Governor Tarkin]

39 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

smuggling, crime and tax evasion.

 

 

A normal day at the office.

 

[skinnybob72]

14 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

A normal day at the office.

 

for politicians north and south of the border

[Auldbenches]

2 hours ago, Mars plastic said:

How can Scotland ‘rejoin’ the EU if they’ve never been in it? 

The people of Scotland were part of it through the uk and they want to be part of it...again. 

If that isn't rejoining then it's just semantics. 

[Mars plastic]

1 hour ago, Auldbenches said:

The people of Scotland were part of it through the uk and they want to be part of it...again. 

If that isn't rejoining then it's just semantics. 

Not all of them they don’t. Over a million folk voted to leave. 

Two things though, Scotland won’t ever be independent so the point is moot, and should the population ever be daft enough to vote for it then it’ll be hunners of years before the deficit is reduced to meet the criteria set by the EU.

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

👍👍👍 like I’ve said I’m on the fence about independence and the main concern is the economy after a yes vote ( if it happened ) I agree with every other reason / argument for Indy in particular Scottish people should have a Scottish Govt and not ruled by Westminster 

👍

[Auldbenches]

18 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Not all of them they don’t. Over a million folk voted to leave. 

Two things though, Scotland won’t ever be independent so the point is moot, and should the population ever be daft enough to vote for it then it’ll be hunners of years before the deficit is reduced to meet the criteria set by the EU.

 

 

I was making a point about people in Scotland having already been sort of the EU.  So it would be rejoining 'if' it did happen.

The rest of it can be argued all day.  

Though I'm trying to avoid the score until the game is on Alba...so your talking shite.

I'm joking just looking avoiding the score. 

Scotland will be independent some day and we'll have to just disagree on that.

You happy with the first past the post Westminster voting system that limits real choice?  It is outdated 

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Don't waste your time. Match postponed, waterlogged pitch, mate. 

 

https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ

 

That crossed my mind as soon as I hit the link.  Little Turkish delight...

I can't not try and get you back.  I can't do links but I'll try something.  You wouldn't fall for it though.

I'm close to needing that defamation lawyer...

[Mars plastic]

25 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Scotland will be independent some day and we'll have to just disagree on that.

 

It won’t. Stop being silly. 
 

 

[Auldbenches]

Just now, Mars plastic said:

It won’t. Stop being silly. 
 

 

It will.  Stop being Tory. 

[Mars plastic]

10 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

It will.  Stop being Tory. 

Ok. Anyway, happy 7th.

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, Mars plastic said:

Ok. Anyway, happy 7th.

7th?  I really don't know the reference. 

Don't say anything about the score, not even a hint...

You spoil the game for me and I'll make sure we are independent by this time next week.  

[CF11JamTart]

3 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

7th?  I really don't know the reference. 

Don't say anything about the score, not even a hint...

You spoil the game for me and I'll make sure we are independent by this time next week.  

7 years ago today. 

[Mars plastic]

3 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

7th?  I really don't know the reference. 

Don't say anything about the score, not even a hint...

You spoil the game for me and I'll make sure we are independent by this time next week.  

 

[Auldbenches]

37 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

7 years ago today. 

I never knew that.   

[Auldbenches]

37 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

 

It's only half time...

You happy with tbe Westminster voting system?  

It's antiquated and needs changed bit it won't.  The liberal referendum proved that.  That means nearly all tory governments in the future. 

**** that 

[Mars plastic]

2 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

It's only half time...

You happy with tbe Westminster voting system?  

It's antiquated and needs changed bit it won't.  The liberal referendum proved that.  That means nearly all tory governments in the future. 

**** that 

I’m more concerned that the greens have two ministers in government, who polled about 8 votes between them, in order to prop up the snp. 

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, Mars plastic said:

I’m more concerned that the greens have two ministers in government, who polled about 8 votes between them, in order to prop up the snp. 

That's not answering the question.  The tories done a lot worse in paying all that money to the DUP for their 9 votes in parliament.  

You happy with the first past the post system? 

You don't want a discussion, you just want to criticise the Scottish government. 

[Mars plastic]

Just now, Auldbenches said:

That's not answering the question.  The tories done a lot worse in paying all that money to the DUP for their 9 votes in parliament.  

You happy with the first past the post system? 

You don't want a discussion, you just want to criticise the Scottish government. 

Correct. They govern Scotland badly and therefore draw deserved criticism. I’ve no idea why you’re waffling on about Westminster when the current incumbents in the shortbread senate are the ones solely responsible for turning Scotland into an utter shambles. 

[Des Lynam]

2 hours ago, Mars plastic said:

Not all of them they don’t. Over a million folk voted to leave. 

Two things though, Scotland won’t ever be independent so the point is moot, and should the population ever be daft enough to vote for it then it’ll be hunners of years before the deficit is reduced to meet the criteria set by the EU.

 

 

 

The deficit claim is slightly misleading. That’s only relevant if we were adopting the euro. Scotland could claim a transition period anyway. The current deficit is calculated using the GERS figures which are problematic for a start. 

[Mars plastic]

5 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

The deficit claim is slightly misleading. That’s only relevant if we were adopting the euro. Scotland could claim a transition period anyway. The current deficit is calculated using the GERS figures which are problematic for a start. 

The GERS figures produced by the SG? Those ones? 

[Des Lynam]

1 minute ago, Mars plastic said:

The GERS figures produced by the SG? Those ones? 

It’s produced by the National Statistics. It’s an independent body and they need to be cleared by The UK Statistics Authority. There is quite a lot in it that are estimates. 
 

There is also a precedent been set for a country entering the EU with a deficit above 3%. 

[Auldbenches]

37 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Correct. They govern Scotland badly and therefore draw deserved criticism. I’ve no idea why you’re waffling on about Westminster when the current incumbents in the shortbread senate are the ones solely responsible for turning Scotland into an utter shambles. 

Shortbread Senate?  Ffs  it's a more modern democracy than the first past the post system.  That matters to people and less would want to break away if it changed.  

I'd rather the shortbread Senate than that Eton prefect common room.  

Which has the better voting system at elections?

Not answering shoes you aren't up for a discussion and would be better buying spray paint so you can really express yourself...

[Mars plastic]

1 minute ago, Des Lynam said:

It’s produced by the National Statistics. It’s an independent body and they need to be cleared by The UK Statistics Authority. There is quite a lot in it that are estimates. 
 

There is also a precedent been set for a country entering the EU with a deficit above 3%. 

As I said, it’s all moot as it’ll never happen.

There was an, ahem, independence march in the snp favela of Dundee today and you could literally count how many were there. Bless. 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, Mars plastic said:

the shortbread senate

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, Mars plastic said:

Correct. They govern Scotland badly and therefore draw deserved criticism. I’ve no idea why you’re waffling on about Westminster when the current incumbents in the shortbread senate are the ones solely responsible for turning Scotland into an utter shambles. 

Who do you suggest governs Scotland? Labour or Tory. The same 2 that make a mess at Westminster! That's why it's mentioned. Imagine those subservient, useless parties serving Scotland, taking orders from that pit London.

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Who do you suggest governs Scotland? Labour or Tory. The same 2 that make a mess at Westminster! That's why it's mentioned. Imagine those subservient, useless parties serving Scotland, taking orders from that pit London.

Gives you the boak thinking about it.

[XB52]

1 minute ago, Deke Thornton said:

The electoral system (flawed as you rightly say) is also precisely why the SNP hold nearly all the Scottish parliamentary seats.

So you agree that the system in Scotland is much better. So you also agree with the SNP who gave been pushing for PR in Westminster for years

[Auldbenches]

7 minutes ago, Deke Thornton said:

The electoral system (flawed as you rightly say) is also precisely why the SNP hold nearly all the Scottish parliamentary seats.

The system here is more open to smaller parties getting seats. 

Which system is better?  

[Auldbenches]

Just now, Deke Thornton said:

I wouldn’t want first past the post for Holyrood but neither would I want the Holyrood voting system for the UK Parliament.

 

Intriguing answer.  Why not?  

[Auldbenches]

11 minutes ago, Deke Thornton said:

Hard to articulate in a definitive way. But I think the direct constituency representative aspect of MPs (perhaps not as strong now as it once was) is important in a National legislature but maybe less so in a devolved assembly. I can’t imagine ‘list’ MPs at Westminster.

It won't change and that's why some voters here want away.  Tired of the same thing getting in   the tories have won two 3rds of all elections since the war and labour only got in because of the Scottish vote.   That's now gone and means that system is always going to give  voters up here a government they never voted for.  

We just accept that?