Afghanistan

[Ulysses]

20 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Don't be silly. No one is calling for troops to go back in. He and his Administration had a duty and responsibility to ensure that Afghans had the same level of security and human rights as they did when ISAF left.

 

A duty and a responsibility?  At what price?  The United States spent about two trillion dollars on a military solution to prop up a government and a system in Afghanistan that was never going to be capable of standing on its own two feet.  The Trump Administration cut a deal with the Taliban that traded an American exit for security guarantees, leading inevitably to a further weakening of the Afghan government, and also making it inevitable that the Americans would exit regardless of who won last year's election.  What's the alternative?  Another 20 years and 2 trillion?

 

[Maple Leaf]

52 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

 

Must feel like winning the lotto to be on that plane out of there.

 

A quick peruse of that picture seems to indicate that the majority of those passengers are young males.  That probably isn't relevant, but since the biggest concern with the Taliban is their treatment of women, I would have thought that it would be women fleeing the country.

[Cruyff]

13 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

A duty and a responsibility?  At what price?  The United States spent about two trillion dollars on a military solution to prop up a government and a system in Afghanistan that was never going to be capable of standing on its own two feet.  The Trump Administration cut a deal with the Taliban that traded an American exit for security guarantees, leading inevitably to a further weakening of the Afghan government, and also making it inevitable that the Americans would exit regardless of who won last year's election.  What's the alternative?  Another 20 years and 2 trillion?

 

I'm sure there were other alternatives.

In Iraq and Syria for example, Special Forces were on the ground to provide training and guidance to Kurdish and Iraqi forces as well as Air Support, which culminated in the defeat of a much larger force in Isis.

 

Can the US and its Allies afford Afghanistan to become another Islamic State which harbours and trains foreign terrorists? Or worse, overthrows Pakistan which has nuclear weapons? 

 

The consequences of this could be dire, not just in the here and now for the Afghan people but perhaps for all of us. 

[Ulysses]

21 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I'm sure there were other alternatives.

In Iraq and Syria for example, Special Forces were on the ground to provide training and guidance to Kurdish and Iraqi forces as well as Air Support, which culminated in the defeat of a much larger force in Isis.

 

Can the US and its Allies afford Afghanistan to become another Islamic State which harbours and trains foreign terrorists? Or worse, overthrows Pakistan which has nuclear weapons? 

 

The consequences of this could be dire, not just in the here and now for the Afghan people but perhaps for all of us. 

 

The Americans provided training, guidance, mentoring and equipment to the military, the police and civilian authorities in Afghanistan.  None of that is helpful when in the ultimate Afghanistan is a failed entity.  If there had been a viable equivalent of the Kurds in Afghanistan it is possible that the Americans could have found a similar solution to the ISIS issue.

 

It is unlikely the Taliban will attempt to overthrow Pakistan, and less likely they will succeed.  China will see to that - at a price.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

A duty and a responsibility?  At what price?  The United States spent about two trillion dollars on a military solution to prop up a government and a system in Afghanistan that was never going to be capable of standing on its own two feet.  The Trump Administration cut a deal with the Taliban that traded an American exit for security guarantees, leading inevitably to a further weakening of the Afghan government, and also making it inevitable that the Americans would exit regardless of who won last year's election.  What's the alternative?  Another 20 years and 2 trillion?

 

 

And that's not factoring in inflation. 😯

 

[Cruyff]

26 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

The Americans provided training, guidance, mentoring and equipment to the military, the police and civilian authorities in Afghanistan.  None of that is helpful when in the ultimate Afghanistan is a failed entity.  If there had been a viable equivalent of the Kurds in Afghanistan it is possible that the Americans could have found a similar solution to the ISIS issue.

 

It is unlikely the Taliban will attempt to overthrow Pakistan, and less likely they will succeed.  China will see to that - at a price.

The ANA managed fine when they had the support and direction of the US and Allies on the ground and with Air cover. By all accounts the ANA failed because their moral, structure, wages and supply lines disintegrated when the Americans withdraw.

 

They were happy to back the winning horse even when the Yanks were there in small numbers but they obviously knew the repercussions of losing the fight to the Taliban on themselves, their families and villages if they stood up to them. Look what happened to Afghan Special Forces who fought to the last bullet, they surrendered and were executed. Those guys were their crack troops and that probably set the precedent for others to abandon their posts. 

 

There was a viable equivalent of the Kurds in Afghanistan. The US and UK special forces fought alongside the Northern Alliance against the Taliban to take Afghanistan in 2001. 

 

That's irrelevant now, they've missed the boat on deterring the Taliban from taking the Country. The withdrawl could have been done in a much more responsible and measured way as Biden himself insisted it would, instead of abandoning Afghanistan to its fate in the most crassest manner. Biden is rightly being rounded upon by both side Republicans and Democrats, left and right wing media as well their Allies. 

[Sharpie]

3 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

Maybe so, but decades have passed and the young American men and women having their limbs blown off certainly didn't cause the mess. I agree with Biden; if Afghans won't fight for their country, why should anyone else?

 

Edit: that's not to say I think they way they've handled the withdrawal has been anywhere close to competent.

 

I agree with your comments,I think your edit said it all.

[JackLadd]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

A quick peruse of that picture seems to indicate that the majority of those passengers are young males.  That probably isn't relevant, but since the biggest concern with the Taliban is their treatment of women, I would have thought that it would be women fleeing the country.

 

Misogynist Taliban thugs on every street corner might be a deterrent.  

[Ulysses]

44 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

The ANA managed fine when they had the support and direction of the US and Allies on the ground and with Air cover. By all accounts the ANA failed because their moral, structure, wages and supply lines disintegrated when the Americans withdraw.

 

They were happy to back the winning horse even when the Yanks were there in small numbers but they obviously knew the repercussions of losing the fight to the Taliban on themselves, their families and villages if they stood up to them. Look what happened to Afghan Special Forces who fought to the last bullet, they surrendered and were executed. Those guys were their crack troops and that probably set the precedent for others to abandon their posts. 

 

There was a viable equivalent of the Kurds in Afghanistan. The US and UK special forces fought alongside the Northern Alliance against the Taliban to take Afghanistan in 2001. 

 

That's irrelevant now, they've missed the boat on deterring the Taliban from taking the Country. The withdrawl could have been done in a much more responsible and measured way as Biden himself insisted it would, instead of abandoning Afghanistan to its fate in the most crassest manner. Biden is rightly being rounded upon by both side Republicans and Democrats, left and right wing media as well their Allies. 

 

It is irrelevant, and it became irrelevant when Donald Trump's administration decided that it was willing to trade some security guarantees for an exit.  Once that decision was made there was only ever going to be one direction of travel.  And in case that sounds like a criticism of the Trump administration, it isn't.  The United States has already spent a fortune on its military intervention in Afghanistan, and has gained nothing from it.  It is estimated that even if the U.S. gets out in 2021, it will continue to incur interest, healthcare, disability benefits and other costs from now until 2048.  It's easy to blame Biden for making the decision to cut the country's losses and run, but the likelihood is that this will settle down and in a few weeks it'll be the same old Congressional partisan shitshow, with the Republicans pinning the rap on Biden, Democrats circling the wagons, and the fat waste of oxygen in Mar-a-Turdo trying to pretend he had nothing to do with the whole mess.  It's also easy for you (or me) to say the Americans should keep wasting their tax dollars on Afghanistan, when we don't have to foot the bill - and don't tell me that the British are spending money there, because if they are it's a piss-ant fraction of what the Americans are wasting.  Afghanistan is a fiscal and security black hole - after all the Americans have spent on the place, Afghanistan's government and institutions ended up with absolutely no capacity to stand on their own two feet.  They were never capable of having that, and they never will be.

[Peakybunnet]

5 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

A quick peruse of that picture seems to indicate that the majority of those passengers are young males.  That probably isn't relevant, but since the biggest concern with the Taliban is their treatment of women, I would have thought that it would be women fleeing the country.

 

Think most will have been in the Afghan army and don't believe the Talibans promise that they won't harm them.

[indianajones]

7 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Don't be silly. No one is calling for troops to go back in. He and his Administration had a duty and responsibility to ensure that Afghans had the same level of security and human rights as they did when ISAF left. 

 

In Biden's own words, 

 

I dont care about either of them but can you imagine the scenes if this was the big  bad orange man at the helm? 

 

Forks oot!

[Hesh]

11 hours ago, muldoon74 said:

I've seen that one, does indeed show someone falling off... 

 

Question though... 

 

They all appear to be men/young men of fighting age, can't actually pick any women or children out in the crowds, yet they'd (it would appear) rather die fleeing their country than stay and fight for it & their families? 

Look again, a lot of men, sure but many women and children too

[Sertse]

I haven't been to Afghanistan however I have been to Iraq and seeing it all unfold leaves me with mixed emotions. I'm glad that we're out however what a farce the whole thing has been. The thing is if people there really, truly didn't want to be under Taliban control then they would have been fighting back. The ghost army they had threw their weapons and ran. The people have no desire to fight them. 

You just have to look at the sheer arrogance of the Americans flying gay pride flags over their embassy, the corruption of the government they installed and the general cultural makeup of the country to realise it was never going to hold.

"Democracy" is just American imperialism, did they genuinely care about "human rights" or whatever?  No or they would have invaded their best mates Saudi Arabia (who had much more to do with 9/11 than Afghanistan). "Human rights" is a weaponised neo-liberal term that gives a pretext to invade countries who don't comply with globalist ideology. The whole thing was about securing resources and building permanent bases.

Waste of money, time and lives.

[Taffin]

8 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Don't be silly. No one is calling for troops to go back in. He and his Administration had a duty and responsibility to ensure that Afghans had the same level of security and human rights as they did when ISAF left. 

 

In Biden's own words, 

 

That's how your first post I quoted came across as the quote from him was about pulling troops out. You seemed to take umbrage to his statement.

 

The quote above is ripe for criticism, I agree.

 

However if the Americans were already aware that the Afghan forces would fold like a pack of cards then it was a never ending cycle and there has to be a point where they say enough is enough and get out.

[XB52]

18 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

There has been an historic affiliaton between Scotland and Russia for centuries. 

FTFY 

[Beni]

9 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I wasn't apologising. And your analogy/example is trite. The temperatures in your example are well defined and irrefutable fact.

 Humiliation is a subjective thing.

A case can be made that "the UK" has not been humiliated this week. If it has been it is a different form and degree of humiliation from Suez. A case can also be made that the UK has suffered worse "humiliations" since Suez  than the one (if it is one) suffered this week.

 

I know you weren't apologising, I was attempting to be humourous, I thought the addition of a smiley would be enough to flag that but obviously it wasn't.   

 

We're just going round in circles now and that's unlikely to change, so probably best to leave it there.

[JFK-1]

18 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 

Probably being too kind to Trump but was thinking primarily of his decision to with draw. It is sort of interesting though to be called out for saying something that seemed positive about Trump. Biden didn't initiate the withdrawal then who did ?. I guess it is semantics but I see Trump having conceived and initiated the original removal of forces, and leaving a small group in place, Biden could have allowed that group to stay, he had the power, he was now President, but he stated in a TV interview that the Afghanistan army were fit, equipped and able to defend their country, and as of this opinion initiated the move of the remaining US forces. Proven to be totally wrong. The said Afghanistani army crumbled and gave up without a shot fired. Surely someone in his staff Intelligence, et al could have advised that.

Just on another small point he was asked a question by a reporter last night and gave a strange answer and you can see him become aware of what he had said and stumble to amend it. I had some hopes for him, a fellow old man, spent lots of years in politics but he is a disappointment, and if things totally fall apart his successor will be a politically inexperienced new President.

 

I don't think there is anything Biden could have done to please everyone. The withdrawal was initiated by Trump, Biden inherited it and delayed it somewhat. It was supposed to have happened in April.

Trump was cheered for initiating the withdrawal, would Biden have been cheered if he canceled it?

As for the Afghans last I heard the Taliban had around 17,000 'fighters'. While the Afghan army is at least twice the size of the British army. A force of around 300,000 equipped and trained men.

And that's what I don't understand about the total collapse. WTF? The 300,000 could annihilate that ragtag band anywhere anytime.

[Mysterion]

9 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

And that's what I don't understand about the total collapse. WTF? The 300,000 could annihilate that ragtag band anywhere anytime.

 

This is the bit that i don't fully understand either but I can remember a documentary a few years back and it makes me wonder.

 

It was possibly on BBC and it followed UK troops training Afghan troops. The Afghan soldiers had no discipline, no fear of punishment etc, wouldn't turn up on time, needed a lot of training. They literally would pitch up and shrug their shoulders, look offended at being called out for being sh*t.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if they had 250000 soldiers who turned up for the wages and got out of dodge at the first opportunity whilst the rest were shot trying to defend bases/cities/towns.

[Kenbo]

21 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I don't think there is anything Biden could have done to please everyone. The withdrawal was initiated by Trump, Biden inherited it and delayed it somewhat. It was supposed to have happened in April.

Trump was cheered for initiating the withdrawal, would Biden have been cheered if he canceled it?

As for the Afghans last I heard the Taliban had around 17,000 'fighters'. While the Afghan army is at least twice the size of the British army. A force of around 300,000 equipped and trained men.

And that's what I don't understand about the total collapse. WTF? The 300,000 could annihilate that ragtag band anywhere anytime.

I witnessed the 'training' first hand when I was in Afghanistan in 2012 and knew back then they would fold as soon as they were flying solo! 

[Sertse]

38 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I don't think there is anything Biden could have done to please everyone. The withdrawal was initiated by Trump, Biden inherited it and delayed it somewhat. It was supposed to have happened in April.

Trump was cheered for initiating the withdrawal, would Biden have been cheered if he canceled it?

As for the Afghans last I heard the Taliban had around 17,000 'fighters'. While the Afghan army is at least twice the size of the British army. A force of around 300,000 equipped and trained men.

And that's what I don't understand about the total collapse. WTF? The 300,000 could annihilate that ragtag band anywhere anytime.

There was never 300k, it would have been a clerical thing to rinse money. Happens in a lot of places. Battalions and even regiments which exist in name full of fake soldiers or people who 'signed up' then disappeared.

[SectionDJambo]

8 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

A quick peruse of that picture seems to indicate that the majority of those passengers are young males.  That probably isn't relevant, but since the biggest concern with the Taliban is their treatment of women, I would have thought that it would be women fleeing the country.

Another concern must be the possibility that there are some Taliban in there, looking to get into America to get up to no good later.

This all started from, what could have been, a position of relative strength for America when it helped the Afghan rebels repel the Soviet invaders. However, rather than build on that success, they managed to leave the people they used to inflict that defeat on the Soviets by pulling away and not following through to help rebuild Afghanistan then. That is what we are told spawned the Bin Laden situation which came back to bite them later.

The Americans need to realise that not every country, and it's culture, wants to live the American way. They had every reason to go into Afghanistan after 9/11, but helped create the problem themselves. They had no reason to try to inflict their way of life on Iraq. The WMD story was a lie as discovered by the UN inspectors prior to the invasion. Oil was the motive.

The middle east is a mix of different tribes and beliefs which requires dictators to keep the lid on. Injustice will happen under such regimes but the solution isn't to open the Pandora's Box of all those interpretations of holy story books. We've seen what happens as a result. Has there ever been a situation in the middle east where western interference has improved life for the population? I'm struggling to think of one.

[Cade]

The Republican that started it is to blame.

The Democrat that widened the scope is to blame.

The Republican that ordered the retreat and let them all out of jail is to blame.

The Democrat that actually carried out the retreat is to blame.

 

Right, that's the blame game over with.

[jack D and coke]

13 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

There really seems to be no hope for humanity.  Covid, Afghan, global warming, North Korea, poverty, corruption everywhere. 
 

pretty sick of it all tbh. You attempt to ignore the news and live your own life but sometimes it just pops up on the phone and videos like folk hanging onto planes and falling off is ****ing harrowing. 

I know mate it gets to you at times. 
All the ****ing conspiracy theorists nowadays an all. I don’t know how they function with all that added mince in their heads. 
No wonder I get fried at the weekends  

[Psychedelicropcircle]

Afghanistan has been on the dole for two decades, we’ve just withdrawn the money to force change. The real Afghanistan is wot your seeing.

[The Real Maroonblood]

10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I know mate it gets to you at times. 
All the ****ing conspiracy theorists nowadays an all. I don’t know how they function with all that added mince in their heads. 
No wonder I get fried at the weekends  

👍🍺

[Cruyff]

7 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

It is irrelevant, and it became irrelevant when Donald Trump's administration decided that it was willing to trade some security guarantees for an exit.  Once that decision was made there was only ever going to be one direction of travel.  And in case that sounds like a criticism of the Trump administration, it isn't.  The United States has already spent a fortune on its military intervention in Afghanistan, and has gained nothing from it.  It is estimated that even if the U.S. gets out in 2021, it will continue to incur interest, healthcare, disability benefits and other costs from now until 2048.  It's easy to blame Biden for making the decision to cut the country's losses and run, but the likelihood is that this will settle down and in a few weeks it'll be the same old Congressional partisan shitshow, with the Republicans pinning the rap on Biden, Democrats circling the wagons, and the fat waste of oxygen in Mar-a-Turdo trying to pretend he had nothing to do with the whole mess.  It's also easy for you (or me) to say the Americans should keep wasting their tax dollars on Afghanistan, when we don't have to foot the bill - and don't tell me that the British are spending money there, because if they are it's a piss-ant fraction of what the Americans are wasting.  Afghanistan is a fiscal and security black hole - after all the Americans have spent on the place, Afghanistan's government and institutions ended up with absolutely no capacity to stand on their own two feet.  They were never capable of having that, and they never will be.

Zzzzzz Biden supporter. 

2 hours ago, indianajones said:

 

I dont care about either of them but can you imagine the scenes if this was the big  bad orange man at the helm? 

 

Forks oot!

Exactly

[i8hibsh]

25 minutes ago, Cade said:

The Republican that started it is to blame.

The Democrat that widened the scope is to blame.

The Republican that ordered the retreat and let them all out of jail is to blame.

The Democrat that actually carried out the retreat is to blame.

 

Right, that's the blame game over with.

 

What about Afghanistan itself? 

[AlimOzturk]

8 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

What about Afghanistan itself? 

Exactly. At some point the country has to stand on its own and defend itself and fight for its own freedoms. 

[Rodger Mellie]

3 hours ago, indianajones said:

 

I dont care about either of them but can you imagine the scenes if this was the big  bad orange man at the helm? 

 

Forks oot!

The media here in the US are tearing into Biden for the chaotic scenes in Kabul. That includes CNN, ABC etc. . 

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, Rodger Mellie said:

The media here in the US are tearing into Biden for the chaotic scenes in Kabul. That includes CNN, ABC etc. . 

Has Trump been interviewed about his thoughts on it?

[i8hibsh]

20 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Exactly. At some point the country has to stand on its own and defend itself and fight for its own freedoms. 

 

It is always blame the west with absolutely everything nowadays.  I get the West had a part to play but jeez Louise start taking some accountability.

 

[Rodger Mellie]

6 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Has Trump been interviewed about his thoughts on it?

He said Biden should

‘ Resign in disgrace’. He’s got some brass neck 😀

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Rodger Mellie said:

He said Biden should

‘ Resign in disgrace’. He’s got some brass neck 😀

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Mysterion said:

 

This is the bit that i don't fully understand either but I can remember a documentary a few years back and it makes me wonder.

 

It was possibly on BBC and it followed UK troops training Afghan troops. The Afghan soldiers had no discipline, no fear of punishment etc, wouldn't turn up on time, needed a lot of training. They literally would pitch up and shrug their shoulders, look offended at being called out for being sh*t.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if they had 250000 soldiers who turned up for the wages and got out of dodge at the first opportunity whilst the rest were shot trying to defend bases/cities/towns.

 

Probably largely correct, easy money when there was little employment to be had in the country.

Of course there would have been some professional soldiers in the Afghan army, but these would have been the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Boab]

China has played a blinder here.

Taliban will form a government and will be recognised by many countries. The pressure on the West to fall into line will be how the Chinese will play this, as the Taliban will do nothing to jeopardise their gain, in the short term.

Of course, the likely scenario could be the CIA, and others, fermenting dissent, directly and indirectly.

The unrest ramped up in the MSM.

USA have f****d up big time here.

 

[Cruyff]

The Northern Alliance tribes still control North Afghanistan and are willing to defend their territory against the Taliban. The US and allies should help them to do that and ensure at the very least that the Taliban don't control the whole Country. 

[Stu_HMFC]

I wonder how many Taliban fighters are mixing with the locals on the planes departing the country. A photo of a plane is crammed inside hardly a woman or child in site. It's just crazy how fast they have taken over a whole country where have they been or hiding in the last 10 plus years ? why was nothing flagged up sooner surely they have been tipped off this was going to happen.  

[Maple Leaf]

2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Has Trump been interviewed about his thoughts on it?

 

I would genuinely be surprised if Trump could point to Afghanistan on a world map.

[Auldbenches]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Probably largely correct, easy money when there was little employment to be had in the country.

Of course there would have been some professional soldiers in the Afghan army, but these would have been the exception rather than the rule.

 

Don't know if this is true, but some told me about 4 years ago that the money for  joining the Afghan army was $500 per month compared to  $1000 from the Taliban $1500 from isis.  

I think it shows for many this is down to money more than ideology.  

 

 

[John Findlay]

8 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Don't know if this is true, but some told me about 4 years ago that the money for  joining the Afghan army was $500 per month compared to  $1000 from the Taliban $1500 from isis.  

I think it shows for many this is down to money more than ideology.  

 

 

But I wonder out of the three, which one actually paid what they were offering?

[Auldbenches]

Just now, John Findlay said:

But I wonder out of the three, which one actually paid what they were offering?

Exactly.  You can see why isis were desperate to get hold of oil etc so they could pay their fighters.  

[Sharpie]

Biden ran for President, and he won. I was offered a position as the officer I/c a police department. In taking the position I reviewed all the current policies, actions taken, and areas where I saw some opportunities to use initiative and advance performance, morale and general effectiveness.

I would have assumed that Biden a man well experienced in Government would have had his staff, advisers and himself do what I as a small timer done. I would have thought also that Afghanistan would have been his highest priority shared with the pandemic.

Being well aware of the danger of assumptions I will however assume that he spent time with his Intelligence forces, his military leaders, and his own personal advisers, so how could he on July 8, be so wrong about Afghanistan in his presentation to the American people. Has he been mistreated and misled by persons who have greater loyalty to another individual, are U.S security forces so out of touch with what is happening in places such as the one subject of this discussion.

I was not a supporter of Biden in the election, was totally ineligible to vote but felt that a scarecrow would be an improvement on the then incumbent. I found Trump a despicable inept human being, I saw Biden as a pretty nice elderly politician, but I had suggested that I assessed he was there mainly for his experience and stability of character to groom the candidate for first female U.S. President. The Afghan situation particularly his July 8 statement, and the total opposite result of the withdrawal have proven and exposed serious weaknesses in his Presidency, is  he actually in control or is he being controlled by others with different objectives, this still has to be established, but is rather alarming when one examines and accepts the United States role in world affairs.  

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

56 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

The Northern Alliance tribes still control North Afghanistan and are willing to defend their territory against the Taliban. The US and allies should help them to do that and ensure at the very least that the Taliban don't control the whole Country. 

 

It was the Northern Alliance (with US help) which brought down the Taliban the last time, something I'm sure which isn't lost on the current Taliban leadership.  If the Taliban go after the Northern Alliance then I can see the US stepping in to help them.

[Cruyff]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

It was the Northern Alliance (with US help) which brought down the Taliban the last time, something I'm sure which isn't lost on the current Taliban leadership.  If the Taliban go after the Northern Alliance then I can see the US stepping in to help them.

Yep, they guys will fight the Taliban and I do hope that the US and UK give them direction and training on the ground with Special Forces as well as Air Support as they did during the 2001 invasion and as they do in Iraq, Syria and other places in the world alongside local allies fighting Islamic Militants. If they don't, shame on them. 

[Tazio]

The Taliban fortunately seem to have little interest beyond Afghanistan, and possibly certain border areas of Pakistan. They do however now control most of a country which can and will be used as a giant terrorist training camp. Iran is a very useful buffer between Afghanistan and other Sunni countries. 

[Cade]

Human remains found in the wheel-well of one of the US air force transports.

It had diverted to a 3rd country after reporting trouble raising the landing gear.

 

Grim.

 

 

[Auldbenches]

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

The Taliban fortunately seem to have little interest beyond Afghanistan, and possibly certain border areas of Pakistan. They do however now control most of a country which can and will be used as a giant terrorist training camp. Iran is a very useful buffer between Afghanistan and other Sunni countries. 

Do you think this might be the tving that gets foreign forces back in there to try and bring them down again?  

We need to give the ones we've left behind to live with all this hope that they haven't been abandoned.  

 

[John Findlay]

Maybe one day the West will realise( though I very much doubt it), that it has no right to enforce( enforce is what it is) its perceived values and morals on any middle Eastern, Asian, African or far Eastern nation. I have as far as I am concerned no right to tell the likes of for example Malaysia, China, India etc how to run their countries or their citizens to run their lives, just because it may be different to how I run mine.

[Boab]

2 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Yep, they guys will fight the Taliban and I do hope that the US and UK give them direction and training on the ground with Special Forces as well as Air Support as they did during the 2001 invasion and as they do in Iraq, Syria and other places in the world alongside local allies fighting Islamic Militants. If they don't, shame on them. 

It will be an almighty mess if they do.

Think it will happen re. NA but covert.

China and Russia already making, predictable, noises about relations with the Taliban.

[Pap]

Sounds like the Taliban's talks with the US in Doha have productive..