Afghanistan

[Auld Reekin']

25 minutes ago, Beni said:

The Americans equipped the Afghan army with 17000 pieces of military hardware to fight the Taliban, these will now fall into the Taliban's lap. America has just equipped its enemy beyond their wildest dreams.

 

They did so the first time around as well, as they supplied arms and munitions to the mujahedeen who were fighting the Russians. Much of this ended-up in Taliban hands.

[felix]

9 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

It's the British way. Can't help themselves and have a history of it!

 

Of course.

We're a nation of past suppressors desperate to latch on to anyone big enough to be new colonialists.

1 hour ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

Particularly when it comes to Afghanistan. No attempts to invade by foreign powers have ever been successful - not since Alexander The Great anyway - and Britain tried a few times in the 19th century with disastrous results on each occasion.

 

Regarding the o/p and Rory Stewart, Stewart wrote a fantastic book about his journey through Afghanistan - 'The Places In Between' - in early 2002. Not only is it a fascinating and superbly-written book, it's one of the best pieces of travel-literature I've ever read; highly recommended. (He should have stuck to writing...)

👍

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, JackLadd said:

 

They could take those weapons and wage jihad in Pakistan where they already have a presence. Pakistan that has a nuclear arsenal which they could seize. 

 

If they ever get close you'd have to think India and Israel would jump in.

 

Total shambles... Blair & Bush are scumbags

[Sharpie]

Fox News are revelling in Bidens big error, according to one reporter he has destroyed all Trumps good actions there. I seem to recall he said he would and he did remove the majority of U.S.forces from Afghanistan with the intent to leave the security of the Country to the 350,000 military personnel which had been highly trained by these same American forces. He stated quite clearly that there would be total withdrawl ( a practise unfortunately not used by his father) in the near future.  Biden has done just that, a terrible decision leaving the Taliban in total control and leaving their military as reported a short time ago in possession of a large inventory of high grade air force equipment. Another six thousand US troops on their way, neither President is for me coming out of this looking good, two totally different characters and personalities, but identical in ability and decision making.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

27 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

Fox News are revelling in Bidens big error, according to one reporter he has destroyed all Trumps good actions there. I seem to recall he said he would and he did remove the majority of U.S.forces from Afghanistan with the intent to leave the security of the Country to the 350,000 military personnel which had been highly trained by these same American forces. He stated quite clearly that there would be total withdrawl ( a practise unfortunately not used by his father) in the near future.  Biden has done just that, a terrible decision leaving the Taliban in total control and leaving their military as reported a short time ago in possession of a large inventory of high grade air force equipment. Another six thousand US troops on their way, neither President is for me coming out of this looking good, two totally different characters and personalities, but identical in ability and decision making.

 

Bob, the whole escapade was doomed from the off, anyone with a modicum of historical sense could see it.

I see their President has been "rescued" from a situation he helped enable knowing full well he'd be the proverbial "all right jack" when it all inevitably went tits up.

Shockeroonie also that all the "leaders" of the "drive for democracy" have their usual exit route while their electorate are left ****ed!

There never was a "solution" other than to leave them to sort it out for themselves. I'm no politician (thank ****) yet could have given "them" that certainty 40 feckin years ago.

 

And then you watch the Taliban equivalent in the palace with their weapons and "you don't eff with us faces" and think, I'm optimistic about the future now. 

 

I despise politics and its participants, most of whom have as much genuine belief in what they're prattling on about as I do in what they hypocritically espouse. You can chuck your religion and your nationalism in the mix anaw.

Gonnae regret all this shite in the AM.

 

[JFK-1]

2 hours ago, Sharpie said:

Fox News are revelling in Bidens big error, according to one reporter he has destroyed all Trumps good actions there. I seem to recall he said he would and he did remove the majority of U.S.forces from Afghanistan with the intent to leave the security of the Country to the 350,000 military personnel which had been highly trained by these same American forces. He stated quite clearly that there would be total withdrawl ( a practise unfortunately not used by his father) in the near future.  Biden has done just that, a terrible decision leaving the Taliban in total control and leaving their military as reported a short time ago in possession of a large inventory of high grade air force equipment. Another six thousand US troops on their way, neither President is for me coming out of this looking good, two totally different characters and personalities, but identical in ability and decision making.

 

Biden didn't initiate the withdrawal, the Trump administration legislated it. Biden was in the WH when it was executed but he didn't begin the process.

And out of curiosity, what are "all Trumps good actions there" 

[The Mighty Thor]

17 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

It's the British way. Can't help themselves and have a history of it!

Britain (Global Britain) still fancies itself as a world power, a major player. 

Risible. 

[ri Alban]

Why don't they just give the Taliban, covid.

[ri Alban]

Maybe The Taliban will be different this time. Hopefully.

 

As for Trump, having a go at Biden, he was the ***** who started this. 

 

And I'm happy no more of the British forces will have to go there. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by ri Alban

[jack D and coke]

16 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

That strategy doesn't work.  They hide inside villages or cross the border to Pakistan.

Correct they don’t wear Taliban t-shirts. 
There was never any chance of success here. 
Its tragic for their female population though who have had proper lives for the last 20 years. 
 

[Herbert.]

17 hours ago, Deke Thornton said:

I don’t recall anyone from Vietnam ever launching an attack on US soil.

 

 

 

Have the taliban ever launched an attack on U.S soil?

[XB52]

10 hours ago, Beni said:

The Americans equipped the Afghan army with 17000 pieces of military hardware to fight the Taliban, these will now fall into the Taliban's lap. America has just equipped its enemy beyond their wildest dreams.

Well they did it before when they wanted the big bad Russians out. Also when they armed the Iraqis against Iran. They never learn

[Jamstomorrow]

10 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Well they did it before when they wanted the big bad Russians out. Also when they armed the Iraqis against Iran. They never learn

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend," springs to mind.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

9 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

If they ever get close you'd have to think India and Israel would jump in.

 

Total shambles... Blair & Bush are scumbags

The Taliban are scumbags

[iantjambo]

What a complete and utter mess. Everyone hates us and with good reason.

 

It’s no wonder we never get any points in the Eurovision Song Contest. 

[Maroon Sailor]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Maybe The Taliban will be different this time. Hopefully.

 

No chance. They have no regard for human life, especially women.

[iantjambo]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Maybe The Taliban will be different this time. Hopefully.

 

As for Trump, having a go at Biden, he was the ***** who started this. 

 

And I'm happy no more of the British forces will have to go there. 

If anything, I can see them being worse than before, unfortunately.

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The Taliban are scumbags

Yes they are

[The Mighty Thor]

13 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

No chance. They have no regard for human life, especially women.

It's arguable that those who sent young men and women out there to chase ghosts (who were in Saudi Arabia the whole time) at the cost of thousands of lives and limbs, have no regard for human life. 

[AlimOzturk]

10 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

If they ever get close you'd have to think India and Israel would jump in.

 

Total shambles... Blair & Bush are scumbags

They wouldn’t even come close to that level of power. America would go full

scale on their ass. Any sort of threat from the taliban wouldn’t be tolerated. Think the USA are just sick of trying to save a country that don’t want to be saved. 

[SectionDJambo]

4 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Biden didn't initiate the withdrawal, the Trump administration legislated it. Biden was in the WH when it was executed but he didn't begin the process.

And out of curiosity, what are "all Trumps good actions there" 

I know that we don't hear all of the debate of American politics in the UK, but it seems that even now, when Trump has no power to intimidate rival politicians with, the Democrats don't seem to want to lay a glove on him. They don't publicly refute his crazy, lying claims that he is the brightest man on the planet, who has made nothing but great deals and decisions. He gets to rant on in the style of past European dictators that it's all the fault of others and he's the only one capable of fixing the concerns of the population.

It's little wonder that the hard of thinking in America hang on his every word when there is nobody within the political opposition seemingly able to justifiably ridicule his nonsense. Biden is clearly too old to stand up verbally to him, but where is the much heralded Kamala Harris? I've never seen her since the inauguration in January.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

They wouldn’t even come close to that level of power. America would go full

scale on their ass. Any sort of threat from the taliban wouldn’t be tolerated. Think the USA are just sick of trying to save a country that don’t want to be saved. 

I think the USA needs saved.

Basket case country.

[AlimOzturk]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I think the USA needs saved.

Basket case country.

To western standards aii. They still have a hell of a military force that would crush any taliban regime who went near Pakistan’s nuclear Arsenal. Rightly so. 

[redjambo]

Life in Afghanistan will be much the same as in any other country that strictly applies Sharia. The "developed world" has decided obviously that the cost of having one more country living this way is less than the cost of having troops there to keep it a more open equal democracy.

 

I read yesterday (somewhere, can't find it now) that Joe Biden has been against troops being there for a long time now, saying that it wasn't the US Army's place to be doing things like defending Afghan women's rights. I find that sad, personally, but can see the argument that if we ignore China's human rights situation in our dealings with them, why shouldn't we also ignore other countries which fail to protect the human rights of all their people.

 

When we stop seeing human rights and freedom as ideals worth sacrificing ourselves for, then those ideals start to mean much less.

[Cade]

Biden was in an impossible position.

 

Trump had declared that they were leaving and had made deals with the Taliban.

If Biden had gone back on these deals, the Taliban would have attacked far harder than they have been this month and the same result would still happen, just with far greater loss of life and taking a few months instead of a few days. And of course this would mean more dead US soldiers. Not a good look.

Biden was trapped into a corner by Trump's stupidity.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Cade

[Jeff]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Why don't they just give the Taliban, covid.

 

You're probably not a million miles away from the truth haha

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I think the USA needs saved.

Basket case country.

 

It had the ideal opportunity post-war to at least attempt to create a democratic, free world by encouragement, trade and cooperation. Instead, greed, control and the desire to prop up undesirable régimes has led partially to the world we have at present. That time has gone now, however, and the USA no longer has the influence it once has. I was always hoping that the EU would take over the mantle, but the UK has seriously weakened those efforts now.

[AlimOzturk]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

Life in Afghanistan will be much the same as in any other country that strictly applies Sharia. The "developed world" has decided obviously that the cost of having one more country living this way is less than the cost of having troops there to keep it a more open equal democracy.

 

I read yesterday (somewhere, can't find it now) that Joe Biden has been against troops being there for a long time now, saying that it wasn't the US Army's place to be doing things like defending Afghan women's rights. I find that sad, personally, but can see the argument that if we ignore China's human rights situation in our dealings with them, why shouldn't we also ignore other countries which fail to protect the human rights of all their people.

 

When we stop seeing human rights and freedom as ideals worth sacrificing ourselves for, then those ideals start to mean much less.

We often think our way of life is the way every country should live because despite all the problems we generally get to live well. The problem with that is not every country aggress with democracy and what right do we have to involve ourselves and imposing our ideals on them?  Leave them to it. 

[Boab]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Life in Afghanistan will be much the same as in any other country that strictly applies Sharia. The "developed world" has decided obviously that the cost of having one more country living this way is less than the cost of having troops there to keep it a more open equal democracy.

 

I read yesterday (somewhere, can't find it now) that Joe Biden has been against troops being there for a long time now, saying that it wasn't the US Army's place to be doing things like defending Afghan women's rights. I find that sad, personally, but can see the argument that if we ignore China's human rights situation in our dealings with them, why shouldn't we also ignore other countries which fail to protect the human rights of all their people.

 

When we stop seeing human rights and freedom as ideals worth sacrificing ourselves for, then those ideals start to mean much less.

Woman’s rights, or indeed, human rights, are only applied when it suits the agenda. If they were true to that, we’d be baw deep in the Middle East.

Hypocritical nonsense from our MSM as usual.

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

We often think our way of life is the way every country should live because despite all the problems we generally get to live well. The problem with that is not every country aggress with democracy and what right do we have to involve ourselves and imposing our ideals on them?  Leave them to it. 

 

I hate to hark back to the event, but the same reasoning would mean that we should have come to a deal with Nazi Germany that it be left to govern its conquests in Europe as long as it left us alone. But we fought back. Why should we have involved ourselves?

Edited August 16, 2021 by redjambo

[Francis Albert]

Shame we didn't support (if only by keeping well out of it) the Russians all those years ago. 

[jambopilms]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I hate to hark back to the event, but the same reasoning would mean that we should have come to a deal with Nazi Germany that it be left to govern its conquests in Europe as long as it left us alone. But we fought back. Why should we have involved ourselves?

. Didn't read post correctly.

Edited August 16, 2021 by jambopilms

[Francis Albert]

58 minutes ago, iantjambo said:

What a complete and utter mess. Everyone hates us and with good reason.

 

It’s no wonder we never get any points in the Eurovision Song Contest. 

Why is the UK more to blame than other European states that got involved?

[Taffin]

25 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Life in Afghanistan will be much the same as in any other country that strictly applies Sharia. The "developed world" has decided obviously that the cost of having one more country living this way is less than the cost of having troops there to keep it a more open equal democracy.

 

I read yesterday (somewhere, can't find it now) that Joe Biden has been against troops being there for a long time now, saying that it wasn't the US Army's place to be doing things like defending Afghan women's rights. I find that sad, personally, but can see the argument that if we ignore China's human rights situation in our dealings with them, why shouldn't we also ignore other countries which fail to protect the human rights of all their people.

 

When we stop seeing human rights and freedom as ideals worth sacrificing ourselves for, then those ideals start to mean much less.

 

I agree with the sentiment but is it worth having young guys and girls blown up by IEDs  as our sacrifice to bring our ideals to a country that doesn't appear to want them, or at least not to the extent they're willing to fight for them themselves (see the Afghan military surrender of the last few days)?

[pablo]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Why is the UK more to blame than other European states that got involved?

 

Exactly. It's an awful situation and let's be honest, arguably the biggest failing of the West on the international stage in many of our lifetimes.

 

But I do think the anglophobes on here should go and have a refresher on the list of nations that have provided military support over the past 20 years.

[Costanza]

This must be the most tone deaf take on the whole thing I've seen.

 

 

[redjambo]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I agree with the sentiment but is it worth having young guys and girls blown up by IEDs  as our sacrifice to bring our ideals to a country that doesn't appear to want them, or at least not to the extent they're willing to fight for them themselves (see the Afghan military surrender of the last few days)?

 

Fair point, Taffin, but I don't think there were many women in charge of the various units of the Afghan military or the administrative areas that capitulated to the Taliban advance. The guys who surrendered, or negotiated surrender, would no doubt have thought "We can't win this. If we fight, lives will be lost, buildings/infrastructure will be lost, and the retribution will be great. Life is stricter under the Taliban for we guys but it is at least something we can survive." They made a cost-benefit decision. The women in the country didn't have the opportunity to make those kinds of decisions - for them the cost of living under a Taliban régime is and will be far greater.

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Christ. Couldn't be more of a parody if he'd suggested they all just rolled a fat one at 'got stoned'.

 

I'm sure he'll be changing his Facebook profile pic as we speak to further assist the women of Afghanistan.

 

And creating a relevant hashtag. You've got to have one of those.

[Boab]

18 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Exactly. It's an awful situation and let's be honest, arguably the biggest failing of the West on the international stage in many of our lifetimes.

 

But I do think the anglophobes on here should go and have a refresher on the list of nations that have provided military support over the past 20 years.

Interesting to note that both the Chinese and Russians are leaving their citizens there and have no plans to remove them. A lot of power play is going on. 

[Francis Albert]

Harold Wilson had the sense and strength to avoid entanglement in misjudged American adventures overseas and withstood intense pressure from LBJ to send at least a token force to Vietnam. 

Unfortunately his successors, from both major parties never understood or forgot the lesson.

 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I think the USA needs saved.

Basket case country.

As much as they’re a basket case would you rather Russia or China has whip hand?

A sobering thought. 

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Britain (Global Britain) still fancies itself as a world power, a major player. 

Risible. 

Small man syndrome, desperate to seem relevant. 
This situation happened at the beginning and now because of the US, the U.K. just tagged along.

[Francis Albert]

Lots of references in the MSM to the UK's "worst national humiliation since Suez". The two are not remotely comparable IMO. 

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Small man syndrome, desperate to seem relevant. 
This situation happened at the beginning and now because of the US, the U.K. just tagged along.

As did other European states. 

[Sooperstar]

There are videos purporting to show Afghans trying to hold onto the wings and engines of US military planes taking off from Kabul Airport in an attempt to escape, before inevitably falling to their deaths from height during take off. Bloody tragic if they're real. What an absolute mess.

[jack D and coke]

11 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Small man syndrome, desperate to seem relevant. 
This situation happened at the beginning and now because of the US, the U.K. just tagged along.

Blair should be on the end of a rope. 
He genuinely riles me when he’s wheeled out. Scum. 

[pablo]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Blair should be on the end of a rope. 
He genuinely riles me when he’s wheeled out. Scum. 

 

Alastair Campbell too by the way. Fannying about on breakfast TV without a care in the world.

[pablo]

5 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

There are videos purporting to show Afghans trying to hold onto the wings and engines of US military planes taking off from Kabul Airport in an attempt to escape, before inevitably falling to their deaths from height during take off. Bloody tragic if they're real. What an absolute mess.

 

 

I'll not show the one of the plane in the air with what appears to be someone falling from it.

[HartleyLegend3]

 

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Alastair Campbell too by the way. Fannying about on breakfast TV without a care in the world.

Aye it’s easy to throw blame about now at present govt withdrawing. 
You just know it’s going to bite us all on the arse somewhere down the line. 
I genuinely feel for decent Afghans. Must be a scary time for them. We should be looking to get their best people here it’s the least we owe them.