Afghanistan

[Tazio]

There are a lot of people over there that can almost say with 100% clarity that they will be dead by the end of the month. Once the Taliban stabilise their government the reprisals will begin for people who worked for the western forces or Afghan military. A chilling thought knowing you don't have long left but no way out.

[Beni]

29 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Lots of references in the MSM to the UK's "worst national humiliation since Suez". The two are not remotely comparable IMO. 

 

You do realise that describing this as the "worst national humiliation since Suez" isn't actually comparing them yeah?

 

[Beni]

The US buzzing folk on the runway with helicopters to let planes take off. This is making the evacuation of Saigon look well organised. These images will live long in the memory and whoever is responsible, Biden is going to carry the can for it.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Beni

[HartleyLegend3]

4 minutes ago, Beni said:

The US buzzing folk on the runway with helicopters to let planes take off. This is making the evacuation of Saigon look well organised. These images will live long in the memory and whoever is responsible, Biden is going to carry the can for it.

 

 

 

 

That is utterly disgusting.  Arriving, selling themselves are liberators, hero's... Then leaving with "Get out the way or we will kill you" 

 

Just had Starmer on Sky news constantly mentioning "20 years of progress thrown away"  deluded idiot..

[Auldbenches]

This is also going to fire up Islamic radicals who will see this as a huge victory and are going to get active for decades.  Give it a couple of years and the west will see an increase in terrorist attacks. 

We will pay for this in the next few years. 

 

[Cruyff]

40 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

 

I'll not show the one of the plane in the air with what appears to be someone falling from it.

What did they think would happen? 🤔 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, pablo said:

 

Exactly. It's an awful situation and let's be honest, arguably the biggest failing of the West on the international stage in many of our lifetimes.

 

But I do think the anglophobes on here should go and have a refresher on the list of nations that have provided military support over the past 20 years.

 

Exactly, it was a NATO operation involving some 40 different countries, the US & UK were but 2 of them, granted the US & UK had by far the most boots on the ground, but we weren't the only troops who fought and died in Afghanistan, 157 Canadians, 88 French, 62 Germans, Italians, Spanish, Danes, Dutch, Polish, Czechs, Turks, Aussie's & New Zealanders and many many more all sent troops to fight the Taliban, and all of them suffered casualties.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan

Edited August 16, 2021 by Jambo-Jimbo

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

As much as they’re a basket case would you rather Russia or China has whip hand?

A sobering thought. 

I suppose the USA are the lesser of the evils.

[jack D and coke]

13 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I suppose the USA are the lesser of the evils.

Yeah. They’re mental but they’re our mental  

[ri Alban]

11 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah. They’re mental but they’re our mental  

Rather have the Russians.

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah. They’re mental but they’re our mental  

[redjambo]

23 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah. They’re mental but they’re our mental  

 

Indeed.

 

12 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Rather have the Russians.

 

Er, no.

[ri Alban]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

Indeed.

 

 

Er, no.

Suit yourself. 🤷‍♂️

[SwindonJambo]

18 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Rather have the Russians.

That fine bastion of human rights , law and order, open democracy and free and fair elections?

 

The US are far from perfect but much closer than those evil counts and their murderous dictator of a leader. 

[jack D and coke]

22 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Rather have the Russians.

[Roxy Hearts]

7 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Britain (Global Britain) still fancies itself as a world power, a major player. 

Risible. 

The Russians and Americans must laugh at us!

[Cade]

I'm sure Priti Patel will be deporting them all back to Afghanistan in about 6 month's time.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Evacuation flights have been temporary suspended from Kabul, whilst the runway is cleared of people.

[Sharpie]

9 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Biden didn't initiate the withdrawal, the Trump administration legislated it. Biden was in the WH when it was executed but he didn't begin the process.

And out of curiosity, what are "all Trumps good actions there" 

 

Probably being too kind to Trump but was thinking primarily of his decision to with draw. It is sort of interesting though to be called out for saying something that seemed positive about Trump. Biden didn't initiate the withdrawal then who did ?. I guess it is semantics but I see Trump having conceived and initiated the original removal of forces, and leaving a small group in place, Biden could have allowed that group to stay, he had the power, he was now President, but he stated in a TV interview that the Afghanistan army were fit, equipped and able to defend their country, and as of this opinion initiated the move of the remaining US forces. Proven to be totally wrong. The said Afghanistani army crumbled and gave up without a shot fired. Surely someone in his staff Intelligence, et al could have advised that.

Just on another small point he was asked a question by a reporter last night and gave a strange answer and you can see him become aware of what he had said and stumble to amend it. I had some hopes for him, a fellow old man, spent lots of years in politics but he is a disappointment, and if things totally fall apart his successor will be a politically inexperienced new President.

[i8hibsh]

23 minutes ago, Cade said:

I'm sure Priti Patel will be deporting them all back to Afghanistan in about 6 month's time.

 

 

Why wouldn't she though?

 

United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, Sweden and Canada take in a staggering amount of refugees every year.  America alone takes in over 1  million every year.  No country in the world takes in more.  The United Kingdom takes in way more than it's fair equitable share.

 

The United Kingdom is in 2.5 trillion pounds debt.  We are just coming out of a pandemic that has destroyed our economy.  We have high terror threat levels throughout.  What are you suggesting Cade?

 

There are over 200 countries on the planet.................you can see where I am going with this I am sure.

 

Why is it always the same countries to accommodate?  The countries that the world shits on everyday and looks on with disgust.  Surely there are better countries than the vile Western ones?

 

 

[Sharpie]

2 hours ago, Beni said:

 

You do realise that describing this as the "worst national humiliation since Suez" isn't actually comparing them yeah?

 

 

Had a little bit of experience of the Suez situation. Twenty months to be exact. The gist of the problem was ownership and operation of the Canal, it was a political discussion. There was no war, Egyptian army were never involved. The fates of British  were generally abduction of off duty personnel who were murdered and their bodies desecrated. The opposition were not characterized as terrorists they were in fact known as activists. The guardsman who had the bed space next to mine was a victim twenty year old Gdsn Ken Wallace who was the Padres servant and escort. They were ambushed in an intersection in Port Said and Ken shot to death. That was our only casualty.

The political settlement was achieved in 1954, and we left the Zone then.

I became a policemanr in 1955, and in 1956 received a letter advising me to report to my Battalion encampment in England ,reserves were being called, police are exempt so I didn't have to go. The British, French and Israel forces invaded Egypt and kicked ass, I do not see United States being able to do that to the Taliban now, they were unable with lots of assistance to do it for twenty years.

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Beni said:

 

You do realise that describing this as the "worst national humiliation since Suez" isn't actually comparing them yeah?

 

Yeah.

The difference is Suez WAS a national humiliation which ended any pretence that Britain was a major power capable of operating in opposition to the wishes of the real great power of the USA. Afganistan is a humiliation for the Western coalition led by the United States and by association the UK and other minor partners of the USA  Not, as Suez  was, a defining humiliation for the UK in particular in relation to its relationship with the USA. France just a decade after its collapse and occupation in WW2 had had its humiliation and had already lost even the pretence of being a world power belonging  at the top table. Israel ...well it didn't do badly from the confrontation of the other two with Nasser. 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Rather have the Russians.

There has been an historic affiliaton between the Scot Nats and Russia. See the Kremlin bar in Milnes Bar.

[Beni]

11 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

Had a little bit of experience of the Suez situation. Twenty months to be exact. The gist of the problem was ownership and operation of the Canal, it was a political discussion. There was no war, Egyptian army were never involved. The fates of British  were generally abduction of off duty personnel who were murdered and their bodies desecrated. The opposition were not characterized as terrorists they were in fact known as activists. The guardsman who had the bed space next to mine was a victim twenty year old Gdsn Ken Wallace who was the Padres servant and escort. They were ambushed in an intersection in Port Said and Ken shot to death. That was our only casualty.

The political settlement was achieved in 1954, and we left the Zone then.

I became a policemanr in 1955, and in 1956 received a letter advising me to report to my Battalion encampment in England ,reserves were being called, police are exempt so I didn't have to go. The British, French and Israel forces invaded Egypt and kicked ass, I do not see United States being able to do that to the Taliban now, they were unable with lots of assistance to do it for twenty years.

 

It's great to hear the experiences of someone who served at the Suez canal. No doubt Britain and its allies were able to overpower Egypt militarily, but the humiliation lay in having to bow to international pressure and leave almost immediately.

The humiliation in Afghanistan lies in the fact that it took just a few weeks for the regime Nato had expensively put in place over 20 years to crumble.

[Savage Vince]

4 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

Think the USA are just sick of trying to save a country that don’t want to be saved. 

 

This is what insanity looks like, I guess. 

 

What the Americans did in Iraq and Afghanistan is up there with the worst of humanity. The marines beat, raped, killed and tortured people at random. There was no media there to report it. A free for all. 

 

They got their arses handed to them in Afghanistan. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Savage Vince

[Auldbenches]

31 minutes ago, Cade said:

I'm sure Priti Patel will be deporting them all back to Afghanistan in about 6 month's time.

She'll be bust implementing her new anti drug policy.  Which is to name and shame middle class drug users.

That's the war against drugs over then.

Sorry for taking it off topic, but it is Patel we are talking about. 

[Beni]

15 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Yeah.

The difference is Suez WAS a national humiliation which ended any pretence that Britain was a major power capable of operating in opposition to the wishes of the real great power of the USA. Afganistan is a humiliation for the Western coalition led by the United States and by sddociation the UK and other minor partners of the USA  Not, as Suez  was, a defining humiliation for the UK in particular in relation to its relationship with the USA. France just a decade after its collapse and occupation in WW2 had had its humiliation and had already lost even the pretence of being a world power belonging  at the top table. Israel ...well it didn't do badly from the confrontation of the other two with Nasser. 

 

 

Nobody is saying that Suez wasn't a massive humiliation, the opposite in fact, that's why it's being used as a benchmark.

If you don't think events in Afghanistan are humiliating after 20 years, many lives lost and many billions spent, fair enough, some people do, and their referencing Suez isn't them comparing them.

 

[Auldbenches]

23 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Why wouldn't she though?

 

United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, Sweden and Canada take in a staggering amount of refugees every year.  America alone takes in over 1  million every year.  No country in the world takes in more.  The United Kingdom takes in way more than it's fair equitable share.

 

The United Kingdom is in 2.5 trillion pounds debt.  We are just coming out of a pandemic that has destroyed our economy.  We have high terror threat levels throughout.  What are you suggesting Cade?

 

There are over 200 countries on the planet.................you can see where I am going with this I am sure.

 

Why is it always the same countries to accommodate?  The countries that the world shits on everyday and looks on with disgust.  Surely there are better countries than the vile Western ones?

 

 

Maybe because we have to accep more responsibility than some other countries because we helped the usa start all this and left as it is today?  

We can't just ignore these people after giving 20 years of false hope.  

Other countries will do their bit, but we should do more as it's partly our fault.  

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

Nobody is saying that Suez wasn't a massive humiliation, the opposite in fact, that's why it's being used as a benchmark.

If you don't think events in Afghanistan are humiliating after 20 years, many lives lost and many billions spent, fair enough, some people do, and their referencing Suez isn't them comparing them.

 

Sorry but "worst humiliation since Suez" is comparing them as examples of humiliations. And in the case of the UK they are not comparable.

Worst humiliation for the USA since Vietnam is more in line with comparing humiliations against a benchmark of comparable national humiliation.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Beni]

30 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Why wouldn't she though?

 

United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, Sweden and Canada take in a staggering amount of refugees every year.  America alone takes in over 1  million every year.  No country in the world takes in more.  The United Kingdom takes in way more than it's fair equitable share.

 

The United Kingdom is in 2.5 trillion pounds debt.  We are just coming out of a pandemic that has destroyed our economy.  We have high terror threat levels throughout.  What are you suggesting Cade?

 

There are over 200 countries on the planet.................you can see where I am going with this I am sure.

 

Why is it always the same countries to accommodate?  The countries that the world shits on everyday and looks on with disgust.  Surely there are better countries than the vile Western ones?

 

 

 

How many of those 200 countries have started wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria in the last 20 years?

Asking for thousands of people currently stranded at Kabul airport, who may well face death at the hands of the Taliban if they can't leave.

[i8hibsh]

12 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Maybe because we have to accep more responsibility than some other countries because we helped the usa start all this and left as it is today?  

We can't just ignore these people after giving 20 years of false hope.  

Other countries will do their bit, but we should do more as it's partly our fault.  

 

 

No it is not.  The entire region is in constant conflict and has been since time began.  I fully accept the mistakes 20 years ago but we are not the root of troubles in Afghanstan and the surrounding region.  

[i8hibsh]

7 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

How many of those 200 countries have started wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria in the last 20 years?

Asking for thousands of people currently stranded at Kabul airport, who may well face death at the hands of the Taliban if they can't leave.

 

 

I personally care about the 68 million living in the United Kingdom first and foremost.  They come first as far as I am concerned.

 

 

[Sharpie]

A small point of interest about the Suez Campaign and how the Afghanistan situation may evolve.

When designated as on Active Service it is saying you are on a campaign. British military have a General Service Medal which is awarded after a period of service in said area.

I was awarded the General Service Medal, but its was not until 1977, twenty two years after my service in Suez Canal Zone. The government's tried to pretend they wee not in a military type situation and cover it by denying those who deserved their medal. Veterans fought for the medal and as I say I received mine in the mail in a small box with no covering memoranda or other info. I know some who valued it so much after the insult they threw it in the garbage.

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

No it is not.  The entire region is in constant conflict and has been since time began.  I fully accept the mistakes 20 years ago but we are not the root of troubles in Afghanstan and the surrounding region.  

The whole area is a mess, but it's not just mistakes we made 20 years ago, it's the 20 year there and for what?

We've left good people at the hands of evil bassas.  

 

Wee side point.

Do you think this is their Berlin wall?  This all began after the wall came down and we thought we had won, then decided to force our values on the rest of the world. 

They'll think they have won and I'm really concerned about how this will come back to haunt us.  

What a shambles our politicians leave.  

[i8hibsh]

Just now, Auldbenches said:

The whole area is a mess, but it's not just mistakes we made 20 years ago, it's the 20 year there and for what?

We've left good people at the hands of evil bassas.  

 

Wee side point.

Do you think this is their Berlin wall?  This all began after the wall came down and we thought we had won, then decided to force our values on the rest of the world. 

They'll think they have won and I'm really concerned about how this will come back to haunt us.  

What a shambles our politicians leave.  

 

 

Our involvement has been an embarrassment really.  Trillions spent by countries like the USA, UK etc, 20 years of attention, thousands of soldiers lost and now we are right back to square one.

 

 

[Auldbenches]

Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Our involvement has been an embarrassment really.  Trillions spent by countries like the USA, UK etc, 20 years of attention, thousands of soldiers lost and now we are right back to square one.

 

 

That's what we get for hanging on the coattails of the USA.  

Special relationship when they need us 

Has Blair shown his face over the last couple of days?   ****er should be locked up. 

[Beni]

5 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I personally care about the 68 million living in the United Kingdom first and foremost.  They come first as far as I am concerned.

 

 

 

You don't have to stop caring in order to save people who's lives are at risk, it's not an either or situation.

Good to hear you're so concerned about everyone in the UK though. 👍

[ri Alban]

Trump or Putin?   🤔 

Yes, Trump will be back.

[i8hibsh]

5 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

You don't have to stop caring in order to save people who's lives are at risk, it's not an either or situation.

Good to hear you're so concerned about everyone in the UK though. 👍

 

 

There are approx 7.5 billion people in the world.  Believe it not, many are in far more grave danger than Afghanistani’s, and many many more more in need of help.

 

We simply can’t do it all.  Every country and every countries leader worth their salt will put their country first (sadly in this globalist age this seems to be no more in the West).  Do you think people in Afghanistan would put the UK before Afghanistan? Of course not.

 

UK first, and we have enough of our own shit going on.  It is not nice to say nor is it to hear but it simply is our reality. 

 

We do enough.

Edited August 16, 2021 by i8hibsh

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, SwindonJambo said:

That fine bastion of human rights , law and order, open democracy and free and fair elections?

 

The US are far from perfect but much closer than those evil counts and their murderous dictator of a leader. 

Did you not see American the last 5 years. Dead brilliant, so it is.

[Cade]

A] We have an obligation to the people in Afghanistan who worked for us during our occupation.

B] Any Afghan has the right to claim asylum anywhere they want and those nations have an obligation to take them in.

C] Even Arsehole Patel couldn't get away with actually sending people back to Afghanistan. She'll probably still try though.

 

[CJGJ]

Biden has wanted out for years and finally had the power to order a withdrawal

 

He made a terrible misjudgment in thinking the Afghan authorities had a chance to stand on their own two feet but without air power that has  clearly been shown to be wrong.

His staff and advisors have clearly got it wrong or he has over ruled them in his rush to get out

 

The UK could not be there on their own and it's hard to see what more Boris and co could do though you'd like to think they tried to get him to either change his mind or buy time for a more orderly withdrawal.........did he even listen to them or take their views on board ?

 

In the short term 'team USA' may have public support at home but even now things are changing when the chaos can be clearly seen, the wasted 20 years to improve the lives of the civilians especially the women is lost and the future for its population bleak.

In the longer term we could be back to the situation where a base of operations is now available for terrorists and religious fanatics to prosper...........the price to pay for us all could be heavy but of course it is still unknown

 

There are no winners once more in this and I feel sorry for the families who over the years have lost relatives and friends for what many will now see as nothing never mind the retribution that could follow on the population

Edited August 16, 2021 by CJGJ

[i8hibsh]

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

A] We have an obligation to the people in Afghanistan who worked for us during our occupation.

B] Any Afghan has the right to claim asylum anywhere they want and those nations have an obligation to take them in.

C] Even Arsehole Patel couldn't get away with actually sending people back to Afghanistan. She'll probably still try though.

 

 

 

No one is obligated ffs.  What planet do you live on?

[i8hibsh]

I think @Cade thinks the UK is going to wake up tomorrow with money under our pillows from the money fairy.

Edited August 16, 2021 by i8hibsh

[SwindonJambo]

6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Did you not see American the last 5 years. Dead brilliant, so it is.

I don't disagree. It's a shitshow. But Russia is much, much worse. If ever there was a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire, that would be it.

[i8hibsh]

 

 

Wonder how many refugees China will take in.

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Why wouldn't she though?

 

United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, Sweden and Canada take in a staggering amount of refugees every year.  America alone takes in over 1  million every year.  No country in the world takes in more.  The United Kingdom takes in way more than it's fair equitable share.

 

 

In the year 2020, the USA planned to take in a maximum of 18,000 refugees. It eventually resettled fewer than 12,000 refugees. Their ceiling is 15,000 for the year 2021.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/10/07/key-facts-about-refugees-to-the-u-s/

 

https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-u-s-refugee-resettlement/

 

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/refugees-and-asylees-united-states-2021

 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

In the year 2020, the USA planned to take in a maximum of 18,000 refugees. It eventually resettled fewer than 12,000 refugees. Their ceiling is 15,000 for the year 2021.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/10/07/key-facts-about-refugees-to-the-u-s/

 

https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-u-s-refugee-resettlement/

 

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/refugees-and-asylees-united-states-2021

 

 

 

 

Are you seriously using last year?

 

 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

I meant immigrants tho - this correction is very important.

Edited August 16, 2021 by i8hibsh

[Tynieman]

42 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

There are approx 7.5 billion people in the world.  Believe it not, many are in far more grave danger than Afghanistani’s, and many many more more in need of help.

 

We simply can’t do it all.  Every country and every countries leader worth their salt will put their country first (sadly in this globalist age this seems to be no more in the West).  Do you think people in Afghanistan would put the UK before Afghanistan? Of course not.

 

UK first, and we have enough of our own shit going on.  It is not nice to say nor is it to hear but it simply is our reality. 

 

We do enough.

 

“UK First”

 

Sounds familiar...