Afghanistan

[HartleyLegend3]

 

[Ked]

I dont know if we really ever had honour in our establishment.

But we certainly dont now and not just on this evidence.

 

[HartleyLegend3]

 

[William H. Bonney]

“We’ll be coming, we’ll be coming, we’ll be coming down the road”

[pablo]

I'm surprised there hasn't been more about this in the msm. Pretty horrific situation unfolding there. Grim.

[Cade]

Went in on a hair-trigger.

Fecked about for twenty years.

Abandoned them to their fate.

Back to square one.

[JackLadd]

Not sure how Biden can send any troops into this now. Good chance they will be killed or taken hostage for ransom, that is already going to happen as many won't be able to get out. 

[Jeffros Furios]

When Al Qaeda start thier global terrorism again we will probably send troops back to Afganistan .

Can only do so much with drones.

Various Afghan governments,  UK, US , NATO & UN have all failed. 

Then add in Pakistan and more recently China Iran and Russia and its a global shitshow .

[frankblack]

The bigger question is why the Afghan forces are not even pretending to put up a fight and folding as soon as their chums from the Taliban come to town.

 

Not too much you can do in a country like this if the people aren't willing to stand up to the terrorists because so many of them are their own families.

[Unknown user]

33 minutes ago, Cade said:

Went in on a hair-trigger.

Fecked about for twenty years.

Abandoned them to their fate.

Back to square one.

Yep, plus those that helped western forces are now in serious trouble. Pretty depressing stuff

[felix]

We should have learnt years ago, to stay out of other peoples business.

[micole]

All of our armed forces who lost their lives or were maimed both physically and mentally for what, nothing!!, it has all come full circle . The whole thing is a clusterfeck, a whole ego trip mainly by America,  my thoughts are very much with the men and women whole served over there they must be thinking WTF was that all for.....😡😡

[Roxy Hearts]

12 minutes ago, felix said:

We should have learnt years ago, to stay out of other peoples business.

It's the British way. Can't help themselves and have a history of it!

[Jambo-Jimbo]

41 minutes ago, frankblack said:

The bigger question is why the Afghan forces are not even pretending to put up a fight and folding as soon as their chums from the Taliban come to town.

 

Not too much you can do in a country like this if the people aren't willing to stand up to the terrorists because so many of them are their own families.

 

The Afghan army knew which way the wind was blowing, besides I'd bet deals were done, meaning the Taliban took over towns/cities without a fight.

[frankblack]

5 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

The Afghan army knew which way the wind was blowing, besides I'd bet deals were done, meaning the Taliban took over towns/cities without a fight.

 

The western forces did invest a lot of resources into training them up to defend themselves and when push comes to shove they won't even try.

 

What is the point investing any more resources into this country when they won't help themselves?

 

Questions need asked about how these forces are being assisted by some of their neighbours who are not all enemy states to the UK.

[Jeff]

This centuries Vietnam. So very sad and a middle finger to those who lost a loved one

[Cruyff]

****ed up situation. 

 

ISAF shouldn't have gone in there in the first place but once they were in they should have fully committed to it. Instead, they half arsed it and have now abandoned the Country and its people to the mercy of a bunch of backward dinosaurs. Heroin production will no doubt go through the roof and it will become a breeding ground for Islamic Terrorism. 

 

What is worse, all those ISAF service personnel and civilians that died or were brutally injured during the war have done so for nothing. It's a complete betrayal. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Apparently, the forces were set-up to maintain control via air support. So when US and U.K. withdraw air support, they were ****ed. They were never set up to actually counter what they face. Which is bizzare. 
 

I’m in two minds about these situation a huge part says let them get their own business. Then I think about their ideology and their actions and my view begins to change. I think investment is they key in these areas and change the power dynamic. You need to improve the situation, something we (west) have never really done. 
 

A lot of innocent people, particulary females are going to endure a lot of suffering.; sadly. 

 

Tom Tugendhat said that the US removed all the private contractors who serviced the helicopters & aircraft, in effect rendering them next to useless. 

 

Don't be shocked or surprised (I'm not) that what we are seeing now unfold, has been planned by the US with the Taliban over the last several months, perhaps even longer, the end game was always America getting out, that has been clear for several years now, however I think the speed that the Afghan army has collapsed has been a surprise though.

 

[Taffin]

I listened to an audiobook recently (1 or 2 years ago maybe) about a guy who'd been in terrorist organisations but had transitioned to being an informant for the West. I took from that, that the Taliban had repositioned themselves somewhat and were trying to be a more 'progressive' (by their standards) group that wanted to be seen differently and taken seriously on the global scene. Maybe they will maintain that and rule to a different standard than they did previously. The noises they're making right now back that up but for now of course it is only words. 

 

I'm not sure perpetually ongoing air support from the West was a good solution either. It's a very messy situation with not many outcomes satisfying to all parties and certainly no panacea imo 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Taffin

[HartleyLegend3]

7 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

The Afghan army knew which way the wind was blowing, besides I'd bet deals were done, meaning the Taliban took over towns/cities without a fight.

Yip, that's the way it's looking. Not a shot fired. Unless the media are not sharing that information? 

 

The whole thing was predicted before a shot was fired by the Uk/American army..

 

Everyone knew it was doomed to fail. 

The cost of life is horrendous and stains our generation. When folks look back 100 years from now they will say, "wtf were they on back then" 

 

It wasn't our fault though was it?

 We only voted for the war Criminal Tony Blair... 😬 He's not even in jail.. We even made him the peace envoy to the middle east..  How f-up is that.. 

[Cade]

25 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

****ed up situation. 

 

ISAF shouldn't have gone in there in the first place but once they were in they should have fully committed to it. Instead, they half arsed it and have now abandoned the Country and its people to the mercy of a bunch of backward dinosaurs. Heroin production will no doubt go through the roof and it will become a breeding ground for Islamic Terrorism. 

 

What is worse, all those ISAF service personnel and civilians that died or were brutally injured during the war have done so for nothing. It's a complete betrayal. 

Taliban banned poppy growing last time they were running the gaff.

They were subsidising farmers to grow food instead of poppies.

 

The heroin trade only really took off again after we invaded.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Cade

[Sharpie]

As a policeman which is what the U.S. and allies saw themselves as in Afghanistan, you have to learn just as in house rows and family disturbances that your presence is not welcome, their way of life is not like yours, but it is their's strange as it may seem to you, and their message to you the saviour is butt out and mind your own business.

[Cruyff]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

Taliban banned poppy growing last time they were running the gaff.

They were subsidising farmers to grow food instead of poppies.

 

The heroin trade only really took off again after we invaded.

 

 

They changed their policy on heroin yonks ago. It's now their main economic policy. 

[Tazio]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

Taliban banned poppy growing last time they were running the gaff.

They were subsidising farmers to grow food instead of poppies.

 

The heroin trade only really took off again after we invaded.

 

 

The western forces needed the help of the local warlords to help keep the Taliban in check. The cost of that was letting them go back to their favoured crop.  
the experts that said 20 years ago that invading Afghanistan was historically a disaster for everyone who’d ever tried it must be having a rye smile just now. From the Russians getting spanked in recent history, to the British getting thrown out twice in the Victorian era, and all the way back to ancient times it’s always been a impossible to control. 

[John Findlay]

Although it may abhor many in the West.

Let the Taliban get on with it.

[Cade]

Afghan regular army units in Kabul changing in to civilian clothes and going home.

 

That'll be that.

[pablo]

Commendable what the West tried to do, but surely a lesson learned from history is not to get involved in Afghanistan?

[frankblack]

18 minutes ago, Deke Thornton said:

They also accommodated Al Qaeda and Bin Laden while they planned and trained for the attacks on the US. That’s why the US went in - not to give girls an education or improve the lives of the Afghan people.

The big mistake the US made was in not going in, pulverising the Taliban in a short-term punitive strategy and then getting straight back out.

As for the UK, we had no business getting involved but Blair’s ego intervened.

 

That strategy doesn't work.  They hide inside villages or cross the border to Pakistan.

[Dagger Is Back]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

The Afghan army knew which way the wind was blowing, besides I'd bet deals were done, meaning the Taliban took over towns/cities without a fight.

These tinpot nations are even more corrupt than our own. As usual it’s the wee man on the street who suffers the most.

 

The rich and powerful will carve it all up grow stronger.

[Dagger Is Back]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

Although it may abhor many in the West.

Let the Taliban get on with it.

 

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Afghan regular army units in Kabul changing in to civilian clothes and going home.

 

That'll be that.

If the local population don’t have the calls to fight for their own freedom/families then why the hell should anyone else?

 

The US have spent around $980m since this started. What a colossal waste of money and American lives 

[Sharpie]

2 minutes ago, Dagger Is Back said:

 

If the local population don’t have the calls to fight for their own freedom/families then why the hell should anyone else?

 

The US have spent around $980m since this started. What a colossal waste of money and American lives 

  

And its not finished, U.S. announced last night another few thousand American troops to be sent there, what a mess. How many millions of people with the vote in the United States and the only choices they seem to have are an idiot and a dotage old man. Trump and Biden names that will go down in history, for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Psychedelicropcircle]

5 hours ago, Cade said:

Went in on a hair-trigger.

Fecked about for twenty years.

Abandoned them to their fate.

Back to square one.

Withdrew paying the bills. 

[Sharpie]

What a mess just listened to an hour of news absolutely devastating. I sincerely hope on Thanksgiving, Remembrance Day, we don't hear about the greatest army in history, Biden doing a Trump wanting them to Parade for him showing all their power, weapons, and fighting men, I make no allegations that the American soldier is not an efficient fighting man, but without competent leadership at the top government levels and military levels they are hindered in achieving their purpose and it makes the death of many fine young men and soldiers a tragedy of questionable necessity. Its not long ago that Trumpet was blasting that all U.S. military should be removed from Afghanistan, twenty years is long enough, correct, but you have to do it properly, and it has been proven that neither Trump or Biden have the leadership ability to do so.

Lots of coverage of the helicopters swooping in to rescue embassy staff, and a considerable amount of coverage of the helicopters doing the same in Saigon. Another U.S. debacle where they sacrificed mega lives of young men and women to prove they were the biggest, meanest, toughest on the block to be embarrassingly whipped by a lot of wee men in sandals. Trump can be excused for having no deep knowledge of that fiasco he wouldnae go.

I guess the obvious thing one would think is for NATO and the Americans to go back to Afghanistan and show they were not really trying, challenge the foe again and whip them. I recall havng a fight in the school playground and got whipped,some time later was told you know he is no sae tough you could beat him now I tried and got another whipping so that is not the answer.

Sad though it may seem the answer is to leave the Afghani population to sort out their structure, any thought of starting mass immigration to other countries will only be an invitation to impose those with adverse intent within our own borders. It is somewhat of an ambition of some to be remembered in history, I suspect Trump and Biden will both get any hope they may have satisfied, because they will both be well remembered over this fiasco.

[Boab]

3 hours ago, Deke Thornton said:

I don’t recall anyone from Vietnam ever launching an attack on US soil.

 

You’re right. 
Saudi Arabians did though !

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 hours ago, Deke Thornton said:

They also accommodated Al Qaeda and Bin Laden while they planned and trained for the attacks on the US. That’s why the US went in - not to give girls an education or improve the lives of the Afghan people.

The big mistake the US made was in not going in, pulverising the Taliban in a short-term punitive strategy and then getting straight back out.

As for the UK, we had no business getting involved but Blair’s ego intervened.

 

That was Iraq and was Blair's WMD 'fake news' debacle.

 

Afghanistan was a NATO mission after article 5 of the NATO treaty was envoked following 9/11.

 

[JackLadd]

China are ready to recognise the Taliban and no doubt move in one the mineral wealth there.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

China are ready to recognise the Taliban and no doubt move in one the mineral wealth there.

 

Of course they are, them and the Russians are gaining ever more influence at the expense of the West.

[JackLadd]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Of course they are, them and the Russians are gaining ever more influence at the expense of the West.

 

Yup, and they won't care a jot about them stoning and lashing woman etc.

[Peakybunnet]

4 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Although it may abhor many in the West.

Let the Taliban get on with it.

 

Yep we now need to work with them to help them run their country without attracting the likes of ISIS or Al Queda. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, JackLadd said:

 

Yup, and they won't care a jot about them stoning and lashing woman etc.

 

Nothing to do with them, they are there to do business, not try and impose Western style democracy upon a population, who most don't want it or are ready for democracy.

[JackLadd]

10 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Nothing to do with them, they are there to do business, not try and impose Western style democracy upon a population, who most don't want it or are ready for democracy.

 

That was part.of the idiocy of Cameron and Sarkozy with Libya and the Colonel.

[pablo]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Nothing to do with them, they are there to do business, not try and impose Western style democracy upon a population, who most don't want it or are ready for democracy.

 

Totally. But how can the West recognise and do business with a regime that carries out punishments on it's own people such as stoning, amputation and public execution? 

 

We can't is the short answer. That said, Bush and Blair have a hell of a lot to answer for. 

[Tynieman]

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

Not sure. I had a Vietnamese curry in Oregon once that might have counted as a war crime.

 

😂😂😂

[Auld Reekin']

7 hours ago, felix said:

We should have learnt years ago, to stay out of other peoples business.

 

Particularly when it comes to Afghanistan. No attempts to invade by foreign powers have ever been successful - not since Alexander The Great anyway - and Britain tried a few times in the 19th century with disastrous results on each occasion.

 

Regarding the o/p and Rory Stewart, Stewart wrote a fantastic book about his journey through Afghanistan - 'The Places In Between' - in early 2002. Not only is it a fascinating and superbly-written book, it's one of the best pieces of travel-literature I've ever read; highly recommended. (He should have stuck to writing...)

Edited August 15, 2021 by Auld Reekin'

[Jeff]

Read last night that they reckoned Afghan forces could keep the Taliban out of Kabul for 90 days... Not even a day later they've claimed it

[The Mighty Thor]

I feel for the families of the poor buggers who didn't come home and for those left maimed by 'serving their country' in what has turned out to be a spectacular waste of time, money and human life. 

 

Kabul is experiencing Bobby Ewing coming out the shower. 

[Dagger Is Back]

32 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Totally. But how can the West recognise and do business with a regime that carries out punishments on it's own people such as stoning, amputation and public execution? 

 

We can't is the short answer. That said, Bush and Blair have a hell of a lot to answer for. 

 

The West will continue to huff and puff and do business with whoever they feel can do them a turn. We have absolutely no morals or principles as far as I can see. We've regularly dropped our shorts to the Saudis and Chinese - that will never change

[Beni]

The Americans equipped the Afghan army with 17000 pieces of military hardware to fight the Taliban, these will now fall into the Taliban's lap. America has just equipped its enemy beyond their wildest dreams.

[Cade]

Boris calling a COBRA meeting and recalling Parliament.

I'm sure a strongly worded letter will be winging its way to Kabul in the coming days

 

[JackLadd]

18 minutes ago, Beni said:

The Americans equipped the Afghan army with 17000 pieces of military hardware to fight the Taliban, these will now fall into the Taliban's lap. America has just equipped its enemy beyond their wildest dreams.

 

They could take those weapons and wage jihad in Pakistan where they already have a presence. Pakistan that has a nuclear arsenal which they could seize.