2021 Scottish Parliament Election (Thursday 6th May 2021)

[Boab]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

As the dust starts to settle I can't help wondering about the longer term political landscape in Scotland.

 

From the eyes of many Labour sold their souls when they stood next to the tories in the independence referendum, and now we've seen them openly trading votes to keep the SNP out. 

 

Labour are in their death throes and there are still many of their supporters who couldn't possibly bring themselves to vote tory.

 

There has to be another player in Scotland soon, tories and SNP don't cover everyone and the alternatives are laughable at the moment. Will we see an independent scottish labour party? Will there be a new party? Will it be Alba that pick up support?

Independence would deliver that party. I’m sure the left would need to create a party that was socialist not only in name but actions. The Labour Party had a chance to achieve that and done a number on the guy who was looking to go in that direction. Or rather the media did with the backing of forces behind the scenes. 
Politics is a murky world. 

[Pasquale for King]

30 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I don't believe they even have a hope in hell  of winning an Indy Vote in the next five years, assuming Boris decides to relent and allow them one (which isn't going to happen).

Once again it’s not up to him, so you’re happy to go against the democratic will of the people? 18 consecutive Polls showed a clear majority for independence. It’s happening whether you or anyone else don’t want it to. 

[Don Dan]

No point now in arguing and bickering and chucking insults about. This election is over. Sturgeon and the SNP (& the Greens) need to write to Westminster and ask for another Referendum then take them to court if it’s refused. More importantly put together and release now a credible White Paper that lays out the verifiable facts and benefits of going independent. 
 

If a referendum is granted then the discussions can be based on and around the White Paper.

[Pasquale for King]

23 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

May I pose a hypothetical question?

 

Nicola = We want a referendum

Bo Jo = NO

Nicola = See you in court

Supreme Court = NO needs Bo Jo to ok

Bo Jo = NO

Nicola = ???

 

Question was posed early this morning and expert replied "lets not go there". But where does that actually leave Nicola and the SNP? What can they do, what would be their options?

 

UDI?

 

 

International law states we have a right to self determination, not that the UK worries about breaking that obviously. 

[Pasquale for King]

34 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

"Would have settled for". The use of the conditional perfect tense confirms that I am happy with the outcome.  I hope that reassures you as, clearly, it seems to concern you. 

On a day to day basis, a Scottish Parliament,  stuffed full of nonentities,  all trying to "out-woke" each other, discussing issues that most of us aren't interested in, "taking the knee", trans rights, free contact lenses for your dug, really doesn't concern me in the slightest.  As Britain roars ahead with record growth this year, I will be happy if the inward looking, parochial,  navel gazing is all contained within the Holyrood bubble

Hahahahaha Brexit British nationalist separatists aren’t PAROCHIAL hahahahaha. Are you allowed a show in the festival this year 😆😂. 
Nice of you to confirm your backward views if we didn’t know them already. 
 

[Boab]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

International law states we have a right to self determination, not that the UK worries about breaking that obviously. 

That was the bit that got me during debates before the Election. Ross accusing the SNP of being prepared to break the law, which is not true incidentally, to achieve a 2nd Ref. This from a party that has broke not only UK law but international.

You couldn’t make it up. They are up to their tits in corruption.

[BudgeUp]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

That argument works both ways, so we could vote to rejoin the UK too when the masses see the shitshow unfolding with the reality of independence.

That would be your right. To vote for a party that would offer that. 

[Unknown user]

15 minutes ago, Boab said:

Independence would deliver that party. I’m sure the left would need to create a party that was socialist not only in name but actions. The Labour Party had a chance to achieve that and done a number on the guy who was looking to go in that direction. Or rather the media did with the backing of forces behind the scenes. 
Politics is a murky world. 

 

I think it'll be in stages. There'll undoubtedly be big change after independence, the SNP will suddenly become completely irrelevant to many and different parties will form IMO.

 

But something will change before that too, labour and the libdems are spent forces for the most part up here.

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, Boab said:

That was the bit that got me during debates before the Election. Ross accusing the SNP of being prepared to break the law, which is not true incidentally, to achieve a 2nd Ref. This from a party that has broke not only UK law but international.

You couldn’t make it up. They are up to their tits in corruption.

Exactly, the hypocrisy of them considering the billions of pounds contracts for their donors and that absolute crook of a PM. 

[gjcc]

19 minutes ago, Dirty Deeds said:

The UK doesn't have a written constitution and relies on precedent.  The precedent was set in 2014.

Cool, the precedent is that a referendum was permitted when polling was at c. 30%. So now it’s at c. 50% it must be a given. 

[Shanks said no]

25 minutes ago, Dirty Deeds said:

The UK doesn't have a written constitution and relies on precedent.  The precedent was set in 2014.

 

Not sure that is correct. Sturgeon has to go to WM and ask for a section 30 order, either temporary or permanent, which will devolve powers to the SP. This is set out in the Scotland Act. So in this case its not purely reliant on precedent. If it was just a case of asking and getting then the SP would have a damn sight more powers already on a whole manner of topics.

[XB52]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

That argument works both ways, so we could vote to rejoin the UK too when the masses see the shitshow unfolding with the reality of independence.

Of course we could, that's called democracy. A word unionists seem to be having a big problem with

[Boris]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

That argument works both ways, so we could vote to rejoin the UK too when the masses see the shitshow unfolding with the reality of independence.

Assuming rUK would want us back of course, and what would the terms be?

 

If independence happened, then I think most folk would get on with it. Current political parties would evolve to the new landscape with the usual western liberal democratic focus. Would expect a social democratic Coalition of some sort. Tory vote to decline slightly, Labour to increase, SNP to eventually wither on the vine as members splinter into the existing parties that suit their position on the political spectrum.

Eventually, of course, not overnight.

 

 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

In all the analysis why is no consideration given to the possibility that some of the SNP votes were an acknowlegement of the great job the SNP has done in running Scotland?

 

And why are all Green votes and Lib Dem for that matter lumped into the indy camp. 

 

It was after all not a referendum on independence but an election to the Scottish Parliament.

 

Anyway after the last referendum the SNP sensibly said they would want polls running at 60% pro-Indy for two years before they had another go. 

It's not the pro independence camp that's doing this, FA. It seems they like to add all votes from SC/SL/SLD together for some pro union mythical total. When over half of SL voters are pro independence. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

Cobblers.

 

It's not John, Ross wrote a letter to the unionist party leaders suggesting working together to beat the SNP by not putting up candidates in seats where one of them was close to the SNP. Sarwar rejected it out of hand. 

[Pasquale for King]

20 minutes ago, Boris said:

Assuming rUK would want us back of course, and what would the terms be?

 

If independence happened, then I think most folk would get on with it. Current political parties would evolve to the new landscape with the usual western liberal democratic focus. Would expect a social democratic Coalition of some sort. Tory vote to decline slightly, Labour to increase, SNP to eventually wither on the vine as members splinter into the existing parties that suit their position on the political spectrum.

Eventually, of course, not overnight.

 

 

Indeed it would, the only way to actually get rid of the SNP is to have independence. I think Labour would need to change it’s name though as many have vowed to never vote for them again. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Indeed it would, the only way to actually get rid of the SNP is to have independence. I think Labour would need to change it’s name though as many have vowed to never vote for them again. 

I'm not so sure, I think an actual independent Scottish Labour would generally be viewed with open minds

[gjcc]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Indeed it would, the only way to actually get rid of the SNP is to have independence. I think Labour would need to change it’s name though as many have vowed to never vote for them again. 

I’d be inclined to vote Labour in an independent Scotland. Sarwar comes across well too, which is an improvement on the recent Area Managers. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

I'm not so sure, I think an actual independent Scottish Labour would generally be viewed with open minds

I’m only going by what SNP folk who have switched have said, I myself could never vote for “Labour” in any guise. It would be strange to have another countries political party names, NI doesn’t, tradition aside. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, gjcc said:

I’d be inclined to vote Labour in an independent Scotland. Sarwar comes across well too, which is an improvement on the recent Area Managers. 

What the guy that has his kids at private school even though the party says it widens the social divide, and pays his workers the bare minimum on zero hour contracts? Not for me. 

[Boab]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

What the guy that has his kids at private school even though the party says it widens the social divide, and pays his workers the bare minimum on zero hour contracts? Not for me. 

Yip. Look behind the front.

A wrong ‘un.

[Cade]

If the Scottish Parliament was the same size as Westminster and if we used the FPTP system up here, the SNP would have a majority of 454.

 

FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY FOUR.

 

 

[frankblack]

40 minutes ago, Boris said:

Assuming rUK would want us back of course, and what would the terms be?

 

If independence happened, then I think most folk would get on with it. Current political parties would evolve to the new landscape with the usual western liberal democratic focus. Would expect a social democratic Coalition of some sort. Tory vote to decline slightly, Labour to increase, SNP to eventually wither on the vine as members splinter into the existing parties that suit their position on the political spectrum.

Eventually, of course, not overnight.

 

 

 

Personally I think we need to see far more detail from the nationalists on the unanswered questions to determine the viability of their proposals.

 

We shouldn't have to rejoin the UK unless the decision to leave was based on flawed information about the economic consequences.  I would hope any indy campaign drives a hole through any political spin so voting is done with all the facts.

Edited May 9, 2021 by frankblack

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

In all the analysis why is no consideration given to the possibility that some of the SNP votes were an acknowlegement of the great job the SNP has done in running Scotland?

 

And why are all Green votes and Lib Dem for that matter lumped into the indy camp. 

 

It was after all not a referendum on independence but an election to the Scottish Parliament.

 

Anyway after the last referendum the SNP sensibly said they would want polls running at 60% pro-Indy for two years before they had another go. 

Great job my backside. Disasterous on health and utterly shambolic on education, including delaying publication of report on education that was due in February but is rumoured to be so damming, it was delayed until after election. 

If they wait on opinion polls to be 60%, they will be waiting for long time. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Given results in Wales, Scotland and England, could it be that all those in power were simply being rewarded for success of vaccination programme. 

Voters have short memories and as things looking up in all countries, those in power received the benefit. 

Might be simple explanation but simple explanation often correct one. 

[pablo]

 

There's an interesting dynamic to consider in the likely voting patterns in a future independent Scotland. Of the 800 thousand to 1 million Scots in England and the rest UK who would be eligible to vote, I wonder how they might? Obviously a split across the board to some extent, but a bit like the ex-pats in Spain etc..........

[Boris]

23 minutes ago, gjcc said:

I’d be inclined to vote Labour in an independent Scotland. Sarwar comes across well too, which is an improvement on the recent Area Managers. 

Agree.

[Boris]

8 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

There's an interesting dynamic to consider in the likely voting patterns in a future independent Scotland. Of the 800 thousand to 1 million Scots in England and the rest UK who would be eligible to vote, I wonder how they might? Obviously a split across the board to some extent, but a bit like the ex-pats in Spain etc..........

If they are eligible, of course!

[pablo]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

If they are eligible, of course!

 

Obviously....but ex-pats are usually eligible to vote, aren't they? You're not trying to suggest that a Scot currently working down south wouldn't be offered Scottish citizenship because they're not living in Scotland when independence was won? That would just be one more bonkers thing to add to the pile.

[luckydug]

4 hours ago, Homme said:

Folk are assuming all SNP and Green voters are indy supporters 🤔

I would bet my boots that there will be a decent percentage of Yes supporting Labour supporters and even some Tory Yes voters. 

Much more than the alternative scenario. 

 

[Boris]

7 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Obviously....but ex-pats are usually eligible to vote, aren't they? You're not trying to suggest that a Scot currently working down south wouldn't be offered Scottish citizenship because they're not living in Scotland when independence was won? That would just be one more bonkers thing to add to the pile.

No not saying that at all. Just wonder how many would take up the offer, and then have to go through the rigmarole of rUK residency/right to work in the current post Brexit environment. 

[Homme]

9 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I would bet my boots that there will be a decent percentage of Yes supporting Labour supporters and even some Tory Yes voters. 

Much more than the alternative scenario. 

 

 

What they doing backing unionist parties for then?

 

They've cost a majority and caused the total votes for unionist parties to be greater than indy ones.

[Homme]

50 minutes ago, gjcc said:

I’d be inclined to vote Labour in an independent Scotland. Sarwar comes across well too, which is an improvement on the recent Area Managers. 

 

This is where I am too.

[Pasquale for King]

47 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

There's an interesting dynamic to consider in the likely voting patterns in a future independent Scotland. Of the 800 thousand to 1 million Scots in England and the rest UK who would be eligible to vote, I wonder how they might? Obviously a split across the board to some extent, but a bit like the ex-pats in Spain etc..........

You have to be a resident in Scotland to register to vote. 
They have Scottish citizenship unless they’ve given it up. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[luckydug]

24 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Obviously....but ex-pats are usually eligible to vote, aren't they? You're not trying to suggest that a Scot currently working down south wouldn't be offered Scottish citizenship because they're not living in Scotland when independence was won? That would just be one more bonkers thing to add to the pile.

Ex-pats including Scots resident in 

Other parts of UK were not elegible to vote in 2014 referendum iirc. 

I remember a Tory voting relative of mine who stays in England bumping his gums about 'bloody foreigners' 

getting to vote for independence while a 'true Scot😂' like him couldn't vote. 

I laughed like **** 🤣

I would laugh even more if it turns out he could've voted after all. 😂

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Hahahahaha Brexit British nationalist separatists aren’t PAROCHIAL hahahahaha. Are you allowed a show in the festival this year 😆😂. 
Nice of you to confirm your backward views if we didn’t know them already. 
 

If it's "backward" to challenge the ideology,  the illiberal zealots who believe their views are morally superior to others' then I'm happy with that. Ironically,  they are some of the most intolerant people of all. Given some of the indoctrination that goes on in schools and unis then it's important to challenge,  question and stand up to the "progressive " view. 

[luckydug]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

If it's "backward" to challenge the ideology,  the illiberal zealots who believe their views are morally superior to others' then I'm happy with that. Ironically,  they are some of the most intolerant people of all. Given some of the indoctrination that goes on in schools and unis then it's important to challenge,  question and stand up to the "progressive " view. 

😂😂😂

[pablo]

7 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Ex-pats including Scots resident in 

Other parts of UK were not elegible to vote in 2014 referendum iirc. 

I remember a Tory voting relative of mine who stays in England bumping his gums about 'bloody foreigners' 

getting to vote for independence while a 'true Scot😂' like him couldn't vote. 

I laughed like **** 🤣

I would laugh even more if it turns out he could've voted after all. 😂

 

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about Scottish citizens voting in an independent Scottish General election. There could potentially be a lot of them living in England. Although I tend to agree with @Boris in wondering how many people would take up Scottish citizenship. 

[Shanks said no]

14 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about Scottish citizens voting in an independent Scottish General election. There could potentially be a lot of them living in England. Although I tend to agree with @Boris in wondering how many people would take up Scottish citizenship. 

 

Currently citizenship doesn't give you the right to vote.

You must:

- be registered to vote at an address in Scotland.

- be 16 or over on the day of the election ('polling day')

- not be legally excluded from voting.

[pablo]

1 minute ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

 

Currently citizenship doesn't give you the right to vote.

You must:

- be registered to vote at an address in Scotland.

- be 16 or over on the day of the election ('polling day')

- not be legally excluded from voting.

 

Again, I'm talking about a general election in a future independent Scotland when people have Scottish citizenship. As an overseas voter, just like now in UK elections? 

[Jeffros Furios]

27 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

If it's "backward" to challenge the ideology,  the illiberal zealots who believe their views are morally superior to others' then I'm happy with that. Ironically,  they are some of the most intolerant people of all. Given some of the indoctrination that goes on in schools and unis then it's important to challenge,  question and stand up to the "progressive " view. 

"Progressives" are usually Britain hating narrow minded clowns .

[Shanks said no]

5 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Again, I'm talking about a general election in a future independent Scotland when people have Scottish citizenship. As an overseas voter, just like now in UK elections? 

 

I stand corrected then, I thought you needed a registered address in Scotland / UK depending on type of vote. Didn't realise that you could vote without one.

[SwindonJambo]

2 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Again, I'm talking about a general election in a future independent Scotland when people have Scottish citizenship. As an overseas voter, just like now in UK elections? 

For the last 20 years, UK citizens have lost their voting rights 15 years after leaving. The government have just removed that rule, meaning that all UK citizens can vote regardless of how long ago they left or how long they ever lived here in the first place.  This will include non dom tax exiles who can spend up to 90 days a year in the UK without being liable for UK tax.

[Enzo Chiefo]

11 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

"Progressives" are usually Britain hating narrow minded clowns .

Yes, you're right. Will side with anyone against the UK. Just witness the sycophantic behaviour towards the EU during Brexit negotiations. All seems quiet now though, given the EUs catastrophic handling of vaccine procurement and delivery. Thankfully, we ignored those who warned of "idiocy" and "lunacy" and arranged our own UK world leading procurement.

[Boris]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, you're right. Will side with anyone against the UK. Just witness the sycophantic behaviour towards the EU during Brexit negotiations. All seems quiet now though, given the EUs catastrophic handling of vaccine procurement and delivery. Thankfully, we ignored those who warned of "idiocy" and "lunacy" and arranged our own UK world leading procurement.

The UK could have done exactly the same as part of the EU. As I understand it. Not disagreeing that the EU have had a shitemare over it, but UK membership or not of the EU is irrelevant.

 

If by progressive you mean someone who isn't into petty narrow minded nationalist veneer to a cynical capital led profit grab, whilst being prepared to rip up treaties signed in good faith, then call me progressive. 

 

 

 

[Jeffros Furios]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

The UK could have done exactly the same as part of the EU. As I understand it. Not disagreeing that the EU have had a shitemare over it, but UK membership or not of the EU is irrelevant.

 

If by progressive you mean someone who isn't into petty narrow minded nationalist veneer to a cynical capital led profit grab, whilst being prepared to rip up treaties signed in good faith, then call me progressive. 

 

 

 

Na you're just a good old fashioned Communist Boris 😀

[Pasquale for King]

57 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

If it's "backward" to challenge the ideology,  the illiberal zealots who believe their views are morally superior to others' then I'm happy with that. Ironically,  they are some of the most intolerant people of all. Given some of the indoctrination that goes on in schools and unis then it's important to challenge,  question and stand up to the "progressive " view. 

It’s progressive to move with the times and not dream of Empires abs Victorian values. Indoctrination in schools and universities? You right wingers really live a world that time forgot, still fighting WWII 80 years later. All you have to do is look at how the media have whipped the English into voting for Brexit to see indoctrination, or the state Broadcaster up here. 
its 2021 in case you hadn’t noticed. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about Scottish citizens voting in an independent Scottish General election. There could potentially be a lot of them living in England. Although I tend to agree with @Boris in wondering how many people would take up Scottish citizenship. 

The Scottish government will decide the plebiscite so that might change for future elections and referendums. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Given results in Wales, Scotland and England, could it be that all those in power were simply being rewarded for success of vaccination programme. 

Voters have short memories and as things looking up in all countries, those in power received the benefit. 

Might be simple explanation but simple explanation often correct one. 

As much as folk say the Tory, Labour, SNP administrations are making a pig's ear of running their countries, fundamentally they haven't to an extent for folk to seek significant change.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s progressive to move with the times and not dream of Empires abs Victorian values. Indoctrination in schools and universities? You right wingers really live a world that time forgot, still fighting WWII 80 years later. All you have to do is look at how the media have whipped the English into voting for Brexit to see indoctrination, or the state Broadcaster up here. 
its 2021 in case you hadn’t noticed. 

I'm not sure I mentioned the Empire or WW2??  I'd rather it was the 80s or 90s to be honest. Don't remember teachers being reported to the Police, under "terrorism" laws for challenging woke ideology in schools then. Or undergraduates at Uni dictating to lecturers how they should think while trying to re-write history and knock down statues. Or to have "trigger warnings" about content that might upset them. No wonder folk are so feckin fragile. I don't think Scotland is a great example of looking forward and outward given half the country are obsessed by battles from the 14th and 17th centuries or meaningless declarations from the distant past involving the Pope. As you say, it's 2021.