2021 Scottish Parliament Election (Thursday 6th May 2021)

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I wouldn’t say a lot, there are some though. Definitely more Tories who see the opportunities that an independent Scotland would present and the youth of the party’s. 

Im not convinced MPs who are settled in a well paid job at Westminster are that desperate for Indy either, especially those who won’t get a job back up here. 

I'm only saying a lot because the guy I quoted said a lot. I agree there are undoubtedly some, I just find it mental there could be a lot when everyone knows it's the SNP's core purpose.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

C'mon Red, you should know by now that JKB isn't a true reflection of the Hearts support 

 

Aye, well there is that. Even you must agree however that Doug's comment was pretty naff and that the support for independence extends further than just Hobos and Celtic supporters. In the same way that unionism isn't the preserve of Rangers supporters.

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

They won because they got more votes than the other parties, no matter how you try to spin it to make yourself feel better. If you honestly, absolutely believe that half this country can't think properly and they are ALL voting SNP, you've got a few marbles loose mate. That means you are attributing better thought processes to those bigoted thick huns who smashed up George Square than myself, for example. Reaaaaaaaaally? I don't think even someone as fervent as you believes that.  

For the record, I believe this is the SNP's record vote percentage in a system that literally prevents them from taking any more. This despite the collusion between parties who supposedly have diametrically opposed ideologies, selling their principles to achieve, well diddly squat actually. 
 

FPTP saw the SNP win a disproportionate number of constituency seats.  Pro-Indy parties won less than 50% of the vote on a turn out where a third couldn't be ersed voting.  I'm sure Boris will be able to decipher what "the people of Scotland " want.

[redjambo]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Yeah I get that, it just seems really unlikely.

I see 20% from the other side have changed too, that doesn't sit right either

 

I agree with the first point.

 

The second is more understandable given Brexit.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I'm only saying a lot because the guy I quoted said a lot. I agree there are undoubtedly some, I just find it mental there could be a lot when everyone knows it's the SNP's core purpose.

Yeah definitely. It’s like buying a ST these last few years and expecting to be entertained. 

[Swanny17]

No matter anyone’s views on here, a pro-independence majority exists in Scotland so regardless of what the Tories want, the democratic right is for the people of Scotland to decide their future. Yes or No, Stay or Leave, the results of this election is a mandate for the people of Scotland to decide whether I or anyone else likes it or not. 

[redjambo]

I personally don't think that the result of the election will influence Boris' views on a second referendum one iota, and the same would still have been the case if the SNP had gained an overall majority of MSPs. He won't be granting Scotland the opportunity to hold a second referendum unless forced to do so by the courts.

[Enzo Chiefo]

8 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I've got a fairly good inclination that Boris won't be greeting tonight 

Great weekend for Boris.  Mobbed for selfies in Hartlepool,  the Teeside mayor re-elected with 73% of the vote, Andy Street re-elected in W.Midlands, gaining councils, numerous councillors in Rotherham having had none previously.  A wee, whinging, girning nyaff from Scotland who won less than half the vote, isn't going to really bother him tbh.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

FPTP saw the SNP win a disproportionate number of constituency seats.  Pro-Indy parties won less than 50% of the vote on a turn out where a third couldn't be ersed voting.  I'm sure Boris will be able to decipher what "the people of Scotland " want.

 

But Boris' legitimacy to decide is fine even though the Tories only got 42% of the vote at the 2019 GE.

 

Right you are then

[Enzo Chiefo]

29 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Hahahahaha you think BJ can relate to the people of Hartlepool hahahahaha. Enjoy your night pal. 

He's certainly more in tune with the people than the woman who serves her own, rubbish strewn,  rat-infested constituency in Glasgow Southside

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

But Boris' legitimacy to decide is fine even though the Tories only got 42% of the vote at the 2019 GE.

 

Right you are then

It's a reserved matter. It has no place in the manifesto of a devolved executive. 

[gjcc]

Labour lose their majority on Durham County Council for the first time in 100 years. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

It's a reserved matter. It has no place in the manifesto of a devolved executive. 

 

You question the legitimacy of the Scottish government's mandate because they got less than 50% of the vote.

 

You don't question the legitimacy of the Westminster government's mandate when they got 42% of the vote.

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, Swanny17 said:

No matter anyone’s views on here, a pro-independence majority exists in Scotland so regardless of what the Tories want, the democratic right is for the people of Scotland to decide their future. Yes or No, Stay or Leave, the results of this election is a mandate for the people of Scotland to decide whether I or anyone else likes it or not. 

Hear hear 

[Unknown user]

By the way I was listening to an interesting conversation tonight.

 

This whole reserved matter stuff, of course any legislation to change the Union is reserved, Scotland doesn't legally have the right to change the Union as things stand.

But a referendum to guage the thoughts of the electorate isn't legislation to change the Union, so the assumption that Scotland needs permission from Westminster might not be quite as clear cut as previously thought.

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You question the legitimacy of the Scottish government's mandate because they got less than 50% of the vote.

 

You don't question the legitimacy of the Westminster government's mandate when they got 42% of the vote.

He is legimately dealing with matters within his competency. Sturgeon is using the result of a devolved election to claim a mandate for legislating on a reserved issue. Boris just needs to ignore it, as do the majority of Scots.

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

He's certainly more in tune with the people than the woman who serves her own, rubbish strewn,  rat-infested constituency in Glasgow Southside

That has no basis in fact, she’s more popular than he is across the U.K., she just won another landslide against the privately educated minimum wage paying twat who is in charge of the labour branch office up here. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

He is legimately dealing with matters within his competency. Sturgeon is using the result of a devolved election to claim a mandate for legislating on a reserved issue. Boris just needs to ignore it, as do the majority of Scots.

The point stands, you question one mandate, not the other.

 

It isn't about mandate, you didn't get the result you wanted so you're chipping at it. It is what it is.

 

[JamboGraham]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

By the way I was listening to an interesting conversation tonight.

 

This whole reserved matter stuff, of course any legislation to change the Union is reserved, Scotland doesn't legally have the right to change the Union as things stand.

But a referendum to guage the thoughts of the electorate isn't legislation to change the Union, so the assumption that Scotland needs permission from Westminster might not be quite as clear cut as previously thought.

 

It’s an interesting twist...but surely the union supporting response would be to boycott/ignore any such question which would simply lead to it being an easily ignored farce...would the electoral commission even get involved with something like that? Would potentially end up no more meaningful than an online poll...

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, JamboGraham said:

 

It’s an interesting twist...but surely the union supporting response would be to boycott/ignore any such question which would simply lead to it being an easily ignored farce...would the electoral commission even get involved with something like that? Would potentially end up no more meaningful than an online poll...

Quite possibly but it's a legitimate question to ask and if they choose not to engage with it, it's at their own risk

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

He is legimately dealing with matters within his competency. Sturgeon is using the result of a devolved election to claim a mandate for legislating on a reserved issue. Boris just needs to ignore it, as do the majority of Scots.

How very democratic, just ignore it. The majority of Scots voted for independence in 2014. 

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

By the way I was listening to an interesting conversation tonight.

 

This whole reserved matter stuff, of course any legislation to change the Union is reserved, Scotland doesn't legally have the right to change the Union as things stand.

But a referendum to guage the thoughts of the electorate isn't legislation to change the Union, so the assumption that Scotland needs permission from Westminster might not be quite as clear cut as previously thought.

Permission is not required, we have the right to self determination by international law. 

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Although I was one of the 'yes' voters, I'm not sure how the bit in bold is true.

Scots born people voted 75% in favour  of Indy. 
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-figures-revealed-majority-5408163

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/majority-of-scottish-born-voters-said-yes-z7v2mmhc8nt

 

Compiled by the woman that’s been on the BBC coverage Ailsa Henderson. 
https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/opinions/scottish-referendum-study

Edited May 8, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Space Mackerel]

13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

He is legimately dealing with matters within his competency. Sturgeon is using the result of a devolved election to claim a mandate for legislating on a reserved issue. Boris just needs to ignore it, as do the majority of Scots.

Anything to add?

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, jonesy said:

And I've almost completely gone the opposite way. 

 

Not that I'd be too sad to see independence, I just don't think that now (or anytime in the next five years or so) is a good time to throw another grenade into the economic equation.

The economic situation is only going to get worse as Brexit really hit’s. 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Fair enough.

 

At what point can a foreigner become a Scot?

 

Do they ever? I was ten years in Holland, I could have died there and still never be a Dutchman.

[Enzo Chiefo]

17 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

That has no basis in fact, she’s more popular than he is across the U.K., she just won another landslide against the privately educated minimum wage paying twat who is in charge of the labour branch office up here. 

Nothing wrong with being privately educated. I wasn't but I can completely understand why those who can afford it would do it.

Why would you criticise someone because of the school they went to? It's up to the woman with full control of education to up the standards in state schools.

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Hammered?? The SNP only won the election because of an ideological position and an electorate that is not exactly renowned, unlike the good people of Hartlepool, of adapting their thought process according to circumstances.  For the record, the pro- Independence parties gained less than 50% of the vote.

You said that English politics was none of Nicola Sturgeons business and that she had no right to comment. By your own rules how are you allowed to comment on politics on both side of the border?

[Famous 1874]

If there is another Indy referendum (I don’t think there should be) surely it should be on the unionist terms this time, as last time the nats got everything that they wanted.

 

Make it individuals who live in Scotland only, over 18’s year old and a 60% majority needed.
 

51% is too low for a decision of this magnitude, and clowns who don’t even live in Scotland to spout pish about how we will be better off, when in fact economically we will be nothing but ****ed as business after business leaves to move down south and pay their hq revenues to the English exchequer. My opinion only of course.

Would be another no vote I think anyway, as more votes went to unionist parties than nationalist parties.  

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

It’s pointless to highlight these things to Enzo and the other half dozen of his ilk. 
 

Like Boris (who incidentally despises folk like them) they just ignore it. 

I’ll double down too. Sky News are gaslighting their followers now.

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 minutes ago, The Wrinkly Ninja said:

You said that English politics was none of Nicola Sturgeons business and that she had no right to comment. By your own rules how are you allowed to comment on politics on both side of the border?

I'm not the FM addressing the country. She comes across as a bitter, parochial wee tyke. She didn't give her thoughts on the ending to Line of Duty or the Partido Popular gaining control in the Madrid elections, so why did she feel the need to comment on English elections ?

[Famous 1874]

1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

Aye, the losing parties always get to set the rules😂

Surely if the nationalist are that confident this time, they would be sound with that?

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

I’ll double down too. Sky News are gaslighting their followers now.

Twitter.

An echo chamber of distortion, half-truths and lies. Think I'll wait for the Sunday Times take on it tomorrow thanks.

[Pasquale for King]

19 minutes ago, jonesy said:

They could just tax punctuation mark errors on internet forums to make up for any deficit  

 

 

Hahahahaha **** knows how that happened 🙈. 

 

21 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Fair enough.

 

At what point can a foreigner become a Scot?

As soon as you arrive or you want to be in my eyes. I was just picking him up his quote. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

Time to go to bed mate. 

To be fair, it's been a successful couple of days. If Carlsberg did elections...

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Twitter.

An echo chamber of distortion, half-truths and lies. Think I'll wait for the Sunday Times take on it tomorrow thanks.

Enzo is very eggy today. Something up? 

[Enzo Chiefo]

45 minutes ago, gjcc said:

Labour lose their majority on Durham County Council for the first time in 100 years. 

[Pasquale for King]

10 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Nothing wrong with being privately educated. I wasn't but I can completely understand why those who can afford it would do it.

Why would you criticise someone because of the school they went to? It's up to the woman with full control of education to up the standards in state schools.

He’s been criticised for sending his kids to private schools, the Labour manifesto said they add to social injustice. 
 https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19251664.scottish-labour-leader-anas-sarwar-admits-hypocrisy-childrens-private-education/

It was also part of the discussion about your pal BJ the privately educated buffoon you think is in touch with the people of Hartlepool, whoosh as they say. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

35 minutes ago, Smithee said:

The point stands, you question one mandate, not the other.

 

It isn't about mandate, you didn't get the result you wanted so you're chipping at it. It is what it is.

 

I did get the result I wanted. Everyone knew SNP would win but as long as they didn't get an overall majority🥳

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He’s been criticised for sending his kids to private schools, the Labour manifesto said they add to social injustice. 
 https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19251664.scottish-labour-leader-anas-sarwar-admits-hypocrisy-childrens-private-education/

It was also part of the discussion about your pal BJ the privately educated buffoon you think is in touch with the people of Hartlepool, whoosh as they say. 

So you meant he was a hypocrite rather than a "privately educated twat"??

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Five years in China and I never became a Chinaman, either.

 

My concern is with the original post that "The majority of Scots voted for independence in 2014." The insinuation being that it was those dastardly foreigners (y'know, the ones that we should be welcoming to our shores for their brilliance and industry or because we are caring society) that prevented us from breaking off the shackles that evil Westminster placed upon us.

 

That would mean all those born anywhere outside of Scotland, such as my mother, both grandmothers, one grandfather, step-mother, wife, three of my five neighbours, aunt, uncle, both my sons and even Callum Paterson will never be considered Scots, despite the majority of them all contributing to Scots society in one way or another over the past one hundred years (my sons, a wee bit less so just yet!).

 

PfK is doubtless a good guy, but pro-indy folk really need to be careful how they frame their arguments to ensure they don't risk alienating the 'non-Scots'.

 

 

Nonsense, I was merely picking him up on his majority of Scots which was false. If you had paid any attention to my posts you would know I’m more progressive than most on here, don’t lump me in with folk who don’t accept your Chinese partner. 
As for being careful of how I speak I won’t take lessons off you anyway.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

You do realise no one in Scotland gives a **** about labour or Durham?🤣

Sturgeon seemed to in her rant earlier.

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Sorry, came wading in without reading the full history on the thread.

 

Both my jobs involve working with foreigners from around the world who have made Scotland/The UK their home, the vast majority of whom have nothing but good things to say about the people of Scotland. I'd hate for another referendum to funnel us into parochial narrow-mindedness of who's a Scot and who's not.

I’ve just answered that, everyone is welcome in my eyes. 

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

You do realise no one in Scotland gives a **** about labour or Durham?🤣

Or the Tories who had a lower percentage again than Thatcher at her lowest ebb. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Pasquale for King
More info

[Pasquale for King]

Great to see Laurence Fox lose his £10k deposit in London 😆. 

[Space Mackerel]

13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I did get the result I wanted. Everyone knew SNP would win but as long as they didn't get an overall majority🥳

The only reason there wasn’t an overall majority is because there was double digit tactical voting in 3 marginal constituencies. 
 

You gamed the system. 

[Space Mackerel]

But anyway

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

But anyway

Nicking that 👍🏽

[jamborich]

Ok just come in apologies is it no time to have a second referendum and just settle this, I have no doubt the result will be the same my worry is ref 3 

[OmiyaHearts]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

He's certainly more in tune with the people than the woman who serves her own, rubbish strewn,  rat-infested constituency in Glasgow Southside

No need for that. I live there and it's a fantastic place to live.