2021 Scottish Parliament Election (Thursday 6th May 2021)

[dobmisterdobster]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

Ah, so you'd prefer to see 62 SNP 11 everyone else?

 

No I wouldn't but if that's what people vote for then so be it.

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Nope, not missing anything. For a parliament that was set up to prevent a majority, they've come very, very close again. 

Some of the unionists are clutching at straws big time whilst patting themselves on the back for selling out their principles and voting for their ideological enemies to little actual effect - they still got hammered.  

But they did stop SNP getting majority. Close, very close but ultimately, they failed to achieve their objective. 

You can't stop people voting for a candidate, and if it suits them to vote to stop someone they don't like, that's their perogative. 

 

[Ulysses]

So, the actual voting strength is likely to be 64-64, which is a better position than 63-65.  And I guess the SNP have this woman to thank for that.

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Or Patrick Harvie. Or Lorna Slater.

It's only a bad thing when it suits. Thems the rules, and everyone is playing to them.

 

[redjambo]

13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

As long as the Presiding Officer is from an opposition party then the SNP are technically not a minority government as that makes it 64-64, apparently. 

 

Who gets the casting vote?

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Just sick of all the division. It's constant in Scotland. Indyref, Brexit, Indeyref2.

A wildcat referendum would be the straw that broke the camel's back 

It’s not a wildcat referendum if the Scottish government passes it. 
The country has always been divided I’m afraid. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Who gets the casting vote?

Good question, I don’t know. 

[Ulysses]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Good question, I don’t know. 

 

The Presiding Officer.

[dobmisterdobster]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Who gets the casting vote?

 

The presiding officer who has to vote no.

[kila]

10 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

On 26/04/2021 at 10:30, manaliveits105 said:

Has nothing to do with the Scottish Parliamentary Elections wrong thread 

 

lets stay on topic and concentrate on removing our own habitual lying leader - Nicoliar and her dishonest party 

 

Krankie oot !

 

 

[hughesie27]

7 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

No I wouldn't but if that's what people vote for then so be it.

So if over 50% of the casted votes were for Pro-Indy parties does that mean we should have another referendum?

[Malinga the Swinga]

3 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Just sick of all the division. It's constant in Scotland. Indyref, Brexit, Indeyref2.

A wildcat referendum would be the straw that broke the camel's back 

Would love for there to be a period of stability where all we worried about was Education, Jobs, the Economy, the Health Service, Industry and all the normal shitty day to day things that matter to people. 

[Pasquale for King]

So it seems that Manky Jaiket a well know unionist who ran as the Independent Green voice has stopped the Greens from getting two more seats in Glasgow and South Scotland. They were 100 short and he got a few thousand, well done the Electoral commission allowing him to call himself that. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Nope, not missing anything. For a parliament that was set up to prevent a majority, they've come very, very close again. 

Some of the unionists are clutching at straws big time whilst patting themselves on the back for selling out their principles and voting for their ideological enemies to little actual effect - they still got hammered.  

Hammered?? The SNP only won the election because of an ideological position and an electorate that is not exactly renowned, unlike the good people of Hartlepool, of adapting their thought process according to circumstances.  For the record, the pro- Independence parties gained less than 50% of the vote.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

The Presiding Officer.

Not sure when it’s decided who it will be. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Who gets the casting vote?

There's a giant game of musical chairs to decide before each vote. 

Would be quite entertaining. 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Who gets the casting vote?

Doesn't really matter with 8 greens added to the mix, but it would mean that it's officially not a minority government

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

No I wouldn't but if that's what people vote for then so be it.

So we should get what we vote for? 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Doesn't really matter with 8 greens added to the mix, but it would mean that it's officially not a minority government

 

Out of pure interest, does being "officially not a minority government" provide any actual benefits?

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

So it seems that Manky Jaiket a well know unionist who ran as the Independent Green voice has stopped the Greens from getting two more seats in Glasgow and South Scotland. They were 100 short and he got a few thousand, well done the Electoral commission allowing him to call himself that. 

It's not their fault. They can't stop him. Surely anyone who was going to vote Green party should at least check ballot paper. If you can't vote for person you wanted to vote for, maybe you shouldnt be voting at all. 

[dobmisterdobster]

It's not really a casting vote. The Presiding Officer has to vote No in the event of a deadlock.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Doesn't really matter with 8 greens added to the mix, but it would mean that it's officially not a minority government

The Greens don’t always vote with the SNP, that’s why to repeal the Offensive Behaviour act. 

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

There's a giant game of musical chairs to decide before each vote. 

Would be quite entertaining. 

 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Out of pure interest, does being "officially not a minority government" provide any actual benefits?

Not that I know of, gid clamp though

 

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

The Greens don’t always vote with the SNP, that’s why to repeal the Offensive Behaviour act. 

No of course, but they will support the government for the most part

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

It's not their fault. They can't stop him. Surely anyone who was going to vote Green party should at least check ballot paper. If you can't vote for person you wanted to vote for, maybe you shouldnt be voting at all. 

Yes they can they have to allow you to register a party name, Galloways party had to alter their name because of this. 
People can get flustered etc in the polling booth if there’s queues etc. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, dobmisterdobster said:

It's not really a casting vote. The Presiding Officer has to vote No in the event of a deadlock.

 

Are you sure of that? It's not mentioned anywhere in https://www.parliament.scot/about/how-parliament-works/parliament-rules-and-guidance/standing-orders/chapter-11-decisions-and-voting as far as I can see.

[Ulysses]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

Out of pure interest, does being "officially not a minority government" provide any actual benefits?

 

It's all about the numbers.  If you can be a minority government but in reality you know you'll never lose an important vote, that's a good position to be in.  If you're slightly short of that position, you need to formally or officially get the support of a smaller party, and you can only do that by giving them something in return, either by way of policies or offices/roles.

[redjambo]

Just now, Smithee said:

No of course, but they will support the government for the most part

 

Indeed. They have reasonably aligned agendas so it would be surprising if they didn't.

[Der Kaiser]

IndyRef2 ?

 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Not that I know of, gid clamp though

 

No of course, but they will support the government for the most part

They will want concessions on certain things which is a good thing and how most progressive countries run a democratic government. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yes they can they have to allow you to register a party name, Galloways party had to alter their name because of this. 
People can get flustered etc in the polling booth if there’s queues etc. 

Yeah, but Independent Green isn't controversial for a name. You can't expect electoral committee to look into background of who is standing. I hadn't heard of this person, so they probably hadn't either. 

Politics is a shitty dirty business and this is just another example. 

I'm sure, behind the scenes, there us a load of shameful dirty secret dealing going on, we just don't usually get to hear about it. 

[gjcc]

Fag Packet Maths:

Counting both Constituency and Regional List votes for the 5 main parties (SNP, CON, LAB, LIB & GRN)

 

Pro Indy : 50.12%

Union: 49.88%

 

 

 

Assuming the figures are correct of course. And does not include Alba. 

 

[Ulysses]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Are you sure of that? It's not mentioned anywhere in https://www.parliament.scot/about/how-parliament-works/parliament-rules-and-guidance/standing-orders/chapter-11-decisions-and-voting as far as I can see.

 

It's not a rule, it's a convention.  The convention is that the Presiding Officer votes to allow debate to continue, and in the event of a final vote, the PO votes to preserve the status quo.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Ulysses

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

They will want concessions on certain things which is a good thing and how most progressive countries run a democratic government. 

Totally agree, although it didn't work when Clegg was getting his dinner money taken every day

[Enzo Chiefo]

13 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

It's only a bad thing when it suits. Thems the rules, and everyone is playing to them.

 

Like democracy itself. Sturgeon found herself commenting on English results today. Not quite sure why ..it's got **** all to do with her. I will qupte her to prove her derangement and desperation " Right wing, Brexit obsessed Tories...:. Eh? Brexit was a democratic decision...I thought she was a democrat?

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

It's all about the numbers.  If you can be a minority government but in reality you know you'll never lose an important vote, that's a good position to be in.  If you're slightly short of that position, you need to formally or officially get the support of a smaller party, and you can only do that by giving them something in return, either by way of policies or offices/roles.

 

But in this case the presiding officer won't make a difference to the SNP's position as far as I can see. They will still be the minority government. If the presiding officer is taken from one of the opposition parties then that officer will be able to use their casting vote against anything the SNP put forward. So, effectively, the SNP is still a minority government whether taking into account that there is a presiding officer or not, in contrast to the post I replied to above where it was stated that because of the existence of the presiding officer, the SNP were not officially a minority government. Or am I missing something?

 

Second question - why do you have to obtain formal/official support of a smaller party? Did the SNP have such a formal agreement with the Greens in the last session? Ok, that was 2 questions.

[dobmisterdobster]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Are you sure of that? It's not mentioned anywhere in https://www.parliament.scot/about/how-parliament-works/parliament-rules-and-guidance/standing-orders/chapter-11-decisions-and-voting as far as I can see.

 

Denison rule still applies to Holyrood as do most conventions.

 

https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/what-was-said-and-official-reports/what-was-said-in-parliament/meeting-of-parliament-09-09-2020?meeting=12802&iob=115745

 

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) "In those circumstances, I would have used my casting vote and, in line with convention, I would have voted against the amendment. "

 

[WorldChampions1902]

4 minutes ago, Der Kaiser said:

IndyRef2 ?

 

[Ulysses]

1 minute ago, gjcc said:

Fag Packet Maths:

Counting both Constituency and Regional List votes for the 5 main parties (SNP, CON, LAB, LIB & GRN)

 

Pro Indy : 50.12%

Union: 49.88%

 

 

 

Assuming the figures are correct of course. And does not include Alba. 

 

 

When you say does not include Alba, does that mean you left them out altogether?

[gjcc]

Just now, Ulysses said:

 

When you say does not include Alba, does that mean you left them out altogether?

Yes. 

[hughesie27]

1 minute ago, gjcc said:

Fag Packet Maths:

Counting both Constituency and Regional List votes for the 5 main parties (SNP, CON, LAB, LIB & GRN)

 

Pro Indy : 50.12%

Union: 49.88%

 

 

 

Assuming the figures are correct of course. And does not include Alba. 

 

[ri Alban]

24 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Or Patrick Harvie. Or Lorna Slater.

Of course, but it was more high profile. Wasn't picking on him, as I do like him. 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Like democracy itself. Sturgeon found herself commenting on English results today. Not quite sure why ..it's got **** all to do with her. I will qupte her to prove her derangement and desperation " Right wing, Brexit obsessed Tories...:. Eh? Brexit was a democratic decision...I thought she was a democrat?

So? How does that mean the tories she speaks of aren't obsessed by it?

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, gjcc said:

Fag Packet Maths:

Counting both Constituency and Regional List votes for the 5 main parties (SNP, CON, LAB, LIB & GRN)

 

Pro Indy : 50.12%

Union: 49.88%

 

 

 

Assuming the figures are correct of course. And does not include Alba. 

 

Honestly, it doesn't matter either way for me, the only thing that legitimises the result is the result. We play to the rules of the game, everyone knows them before the start.

[Ulysses]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

But in this case the presiding officer won't make a difference to the SNP's position as far as I can see. They will still be the minority government. If the presiding officer is taken from one of the opposition parties then that officer will be able to use their casting vote against anything the SNP put forward. So, effectively, the SNP is still a minority government whether taking into account that there is a presiding officer or not, in contrast to the post I replied to above where it was stated that because of the existence of the presiding officer, the SNP were not officially a minority government. Or am I missing something?

 

Second question - why do you have to obtain formal/official support of a smaller party? Did the SNP have such a formal agreement with the Greens in the last session? Ok, that was 2 questions.

 

It's all about the numbers.  Most of the time, the Greens won't vote against the SNP.  Sometimes they will.  When that happens, it's up to the SNP to decide whether it wants to lose the vote or cut a deal with the Greens to win the vote on a vote-by-vote basis.  There's a magic number (but don't ask me what that is) where a party can be short of a majority but act as if it has a  majority.  On the other hand, if you're short of that magic number, you need a more formal coalition or confidence and supply voting arrangement.

 

We do this stuff every time - after every single General Election.  From 2016 to 2020 we had a minority government which relied on a confidence and supply arrangement because it had 59 seats to the opposition's 98.  Yep, 59 Government members and 98 opposition.

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 minutes ago, gjcc said:

Fag Packet Maths:

Counting both Constituency and Regional List votes for the 5 main parties (SNP, CON, LAB, LIB & GRN)

 

Pro Indy : 50.12%

Union: 49.88%

 

 

 

Assuming the figures are correct of course. And does not include Alba. 

 

According to the BBC: 49% Const, 50.1% Reg. That's for The Seps

[Ulysses]

6 minutes ago, gjcc said:

Yes. 

 

It's pretty safe to describe Alba as pro-independence.

[ri Alban]

20 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

So it seems that Manky Jaiket a well know unionist who ran as the Independent Green voice has stopped the Greens from getting two more seats in Glasgow and South Scotland. They were 100 short and he got a few thousand, well done the Electoral commission allowing him to call himself that. 

I nearly fecked up, I had 2 Greens on my paper, WoS.

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

6 minutes ago, gjcc said:

Fag Packet Maths:

Counting both Constituency and Regional List votes for the 5 main parties (SNP, CON, LAB, LIB & GRN)

 

Pro Indy : 50.12%

Union: 49.88%

 

 

 

Assuming the figures are correct of course. And does not include Alba. 

 

Bigger fag packet math. If I recall, the independence ref had a turnout of over 80%. That means we have about 15% to 20% of voters who will vote on referendum but not this election. 

Who they vote for is anyone's guess. 

If this is percentage figure that we have, SNP won't call for referendum. She can't afford to lose, and this is way too close. 

Another few years of brinkmanship coming up. 

[Nucky Thompson]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

According to the BBC: 49% Const, 50.1% Reg. That's for The Seps

Yup. That's official, not fag packet