2021 Scottish Parliament Election (Thursday 6th May 2021)

[RobboM]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

It would be a gamble if they weren't to win large numbers of constituency seats. And obviously candidates couldn't belong to both parties so would have to choose one or the other for the election. New Zealand, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additional_member_system anyway, appear to require list candidates to also contest a constituency. Without having explored the nuances and consequences, I like that general idea to be honest. Perhaps it could be tied into a provision that each candidate has to achieve a certain percentage of the vote in their constituency in order to be eligible as a successful list candidate. More info on AMS is at the above link anyway.

Thanks for the link Red. Seems this approach is called "decoy lists" as a way of playing the system. Nothing stopping it as a tactic though.

[The Real Maroonblood]

10 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

Comfortable pro indy majority despite the red and blue tories getting into bed with each other. 

😎

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, RobboM said:

Thanks for the link Red. Seems this approach is called "decoy lists" as a way of playing the system. Nothing stopping it as a tactic though.

 

It does appear to currently be a legitimate way to game the system though, and you're right to point it out as a potential problem.

[ri Alban]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

so more people vote for pro union parties by  whatever measure you chose tho throw at it, a clear majority in the polls don’t want it but according to you there is a clear majority ? 😂😂😂😂😂

 

donald trump level repeat it enough times and it becomes true style politics

The majority of Labour voters aren't unionists. 60% are pro independent and if SL came out pro iScotland, it would be a massacre at inref2. 

 

But hey, keep deflecting. Oh and remain parties had more votes at the 2019 GE. Didn't stop Boris getting a majority of 80, did it. 

[Ray Gin]

9 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

so more people vote for pro union parties by  whatever measure you chose tho throw at it, a clear majority in the polls don’t want it but according to you there is a clear majority ? 😂😂😂😂😂

 

donald trump level repeat it enough times and it becomes true style politics

 

Not according to me, according to the Scottish voters. 

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The majority of Labour voters aren't unionists. 60% are pro independent and if SL came out pro iScotland, it would be a massacre at inref2. 

 

But hey, keep deflecting. Oh and remain parties had more votes at the 2019 GE. Didn't stop Boris getting a majority of 80, did it. 

Do SNP voters need to deflect towards boris and WM for every question? 😂
 

this aside what your saying is SNP voters want independence, but some voters who voted unionist parties also want Independence? Despite the polls in independence saying otherwise 
 

the reality is, if we had a truly proportional system there would be no “independence” majority would there.

[Sarah O]

6 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Why are Greens nut jobs? 

Self ID'ing is a monstrous idea. 

[Cade]

16 minutes ago, Gards said:

This is my first Scottish election since returning from US....so first time experiencing the region/list thing.  Just saw it raised above but also don't understand how a party that gets 45% of the central Scotland vote doesn't get any MSP's put forward.  Can someone explain to me how that works or point me to something?

 

Cheers.

 

The more Constituency seats you win in a Region, the less Regional list seats you get.

SNP have won every seat in some regions, so didn't get any list seats in those regions.

The diddy parties get more seats to make parliament more representative.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Cade

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

1 minute ago, Gards said:

This is my first Scottish election since returning from US....so first time experiencing the region/list thing.  Just saw it raised above but also don't understand how a party that gets 45% of the central Scotland vote doesn't get any MSP's put forward.  Can someone explain to me how that works or point me to something?

 

Cheers.

It depends on how many constituency seats you have. The first region seat is given to the party with the most votes when they are all divided by the number of combined constituency/region seats + 1.

 

So if the SNP get 100000 list votes, the tories 50000 and labour 40000, green 15000 and liberals 8000 and the constituencies were snp 9 seats and tories 1.

 

For the first list seat the snp list votes are divided by 9+1  to make 10000. The tories are divided by 1+1 to make 25000. Labour have 40000, green 15000, liberal 8000 so labour win the first list seat.

 

For the second list seat snp is the same 10000 and tories 25000. Labour now have an seat from the first list so their 40000 is divided by 1+1 to make 20000. Green still 15000 and liberal 8000. Tory wins the second seat.

 

The third seat is snp 10000, Tory (now with 3 seats) is 50000/3 to make 16666, labour 20000, green 15000, liberal 8000. So another for labour.

 

The fourth is snp 10000, Tory 16666, labour  ( now 40000/(2+1) ) 13333, green 15000, liberal 8000. So another Tory.

 

The 5th snp 10000, Tory 12500, labour 13333, green 15000, liberal 8000. So green get a seat.

 

And so on. The next seat labour, then next Tory.

[Costanza]

If we had proper proportional representation, we would have a soft Brexit and some kind of federalism in the UK with more powers devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

I don't see the Union surviving without this to be perfectly honest.

[manaliveits105]

Feck me she couldn’t even wait till voting over to get back on the tv and start lying again

its not the will of the Scottish people it’s the will of 48% of people who voted

Anti Indy parties received more votes 

 

snp minority government though ay - never mind 

[Ray Gin]

1 minute ago, manaliveits105 said:

Feck me she couldn’t even wait till voting over to get back on the tv and start lying again

its not the will of the Scottish people it’s the will of 48% of people who voted

Anti Indy parties received more votes 

 

snp minority government though ay - never mind 

 

 

Good to see you hurting today. 

 

[ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ]

1 minute ago, manaliveits105 said:

Feck me she couldn’t even wait till voting over to get back on the tv and start lying again

its not the will of the Scottish people it’s the will of 48% of people who voted

Anti Indy parties received more votes 

 

snp minority government though ay - never mind 

They were saying on the radio earlier that this is the highest percentage vote any party has got in the UK in the last half century.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

Good to see you hurting today. 

 

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

4 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Feck me she couldn’t even wait till voting over to get back on the tv and start lying again

its not the will of the Scottish people it’s the will of 48% of people who voted

Anti Indy parties received more votes 

 

snp minority government though ay - never mind 

Voting finished yesterday Donald 

[Footballfirst]

Whoops!  The BBC breaks the time embargo on BoJo's letter to NS.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Footballfirst

[Mikey1874]

26 minutes ago, Gards said:

This is my first Scottish election since returning from US....so first time experiencing the region/list thing.  Just saw it raised above but also don't understand how a party that gets 45% of the central Scotland vote doesn't get any MSP's put forward.  Can someone explain to me how that works or point me to something?

 

Cheers.

 

Because SNP won enough seats in line with their overall vote already. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Well that’s it over for another 5 years 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by JamesM48

[ri Alban]

12 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Do SNP voters need to deflect towards boris and WM for every question? 😂
 

this aside what your saying is SNP voters want independence, but some voters who voted unionist parties also want Independence? Despite the polls in independence saying otherwise 
 

the reality is, if we had a truly proportional system there would be no “independence” majority would there.

I'm trying to have a chat, Kingsy. It was a comparison. FPTP Boris won an 80 majority to push through Brexit, but a supposed remain combination of parties. So in your view that should have been a reverse of the EU ref, which was binding, BTW. 

 

You can't move goalposts when it suits. The SNP has 62 from 73 FPTP seats, 62!. The so called unionist combination have 11. 

Fairs fair, the SNP have smashed it. 

[ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ]

30 minutes ago, Gards said:

This is my first Scottish election since returning from US....so first time experiencing the region/list thing.  Just saw it raised above but also don't understand how a party that gets 45% of the central Scotland vote doesn't get any MSP's put forward.  Can someone explain to me how that works or point me to something?

 

Cheers.

It's designed to get the overall seats awarded close to the percentage of votes cast, it works pretty well.

 

I watched a thing about how the mechanics of it works, I get it but I'm not sure I could explain it easily

[OmiyaHearts]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Well that’s it over for another 5 years 

 

It's not over. Unionists pain is just beginning....

[Footballfirst]

Glasgow's regional list winners (no change from 2016)

 

[Pasquale for King]

19 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Self ID'ing is a monstrous idea. 

It takes 3 years to get an appointment in Glasgow and another 2 to get a follow up appointment. It’s not an easy process. The SNP support it too in fact it’s their idea. 
Contrast that to the homophobia and racism from the Abla cult. 

[Footballfirst]

I've seen a couple of folk tweeting that they believe that Alba's list vote in NE Scotland is just enough to stop the SNP gaining a list seat there.

[ri Alban]

NS should offer to hold an independence Referendum in May or September 2023 or 2024. That's pretty reasonable. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

20 minutes ago, The Wrinkly Ninja said:

Voting finished yesterday Donald 

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

I'm trying to have a chat, Kingsy. It was a comparison. FPTP Boris won an 80 majority to push through Brexit, but a supposed remain combination of parties. So in your view that should have been a reverse of the EU ref, which was binding, BTW. 

 

You can't move goalposts when it suits. The SNP has 62 from 73 FPTP seats, 62!. The so called unionist combination have 11. 

Fairs fair, the SNP have smashed it. 

my apologies but I have to say people using “tories” as if it’s a dirty word and referring to more than half of this country as filth absolutely boils my piss. To be fair your haven’t done that to the best of my knowledge so I should apologise in this instance 
 

To clarify my position - every point I make  I also believe should apply equally in WM including my views on proportional representation.  I was very much anti brexit, I am very much anti boris, I am certainly not pro tory! My politics are right down the middle .. I’m not even a unionist. 

 

my views on independence are 100% driven by what I believe to be the evidence and I 100% believe that Scotland will be worse off for a very long time.
 

in addition - The U.K. union is much deeper, more complex and more emotional than the union with the EU with deep family and work ties. As well as the economic damage I genuinely believe a vote for independence will see Scotland comparable to Northern Ireland. I would not be surprised to see us have our own troubles

 

But it’s independence at all costs isn’t it.  

[kingantti1874]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

It's designed to get the overall seats awarded close to the percentage of votes cast, it works pretty well.

 

I watched a thing about how the mechanics of it works, I get it but I'm not sure I could explain it easily

but the SNP + Greens have more than half the seats for less than half of the vote. It doesn’t work well enough

[kingantti1874]

8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Nope, it's about the Scottish electorate being able to vote in the government it wants.

On the basis of lies and cheques which can’t be cashed 

[John Findlay]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

but the SNP + Greens have more than half the seats for less than half of the vote. It doesn’t work well enough

I don't hear you complaining about the WM FPTP system as it has given you a government you desire. 

Being more than a tad hypocritical are we not?

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

On the basis of lies and cheques which can’t be cashed 

The Scottish government have borrowing powers now ?

[Footballfirst]

Bad news for another party consumed by tactical voting.

 

 

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

I don't hear you complaining about the WM FPTP system as it has given you a government you desire. 

Being more than a tad hypocritical are we not?

I have complained about it lots of times. I even clarified my position on this thread.

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

my apologies but I have to say people using “tories” as if it’s a dirty word and referring to more than half of this country as filth absolutely boils my piss. To be fair your haven’t done that to the best of my knowledge so I should apologise in this instance 
 

To clarify my position - every point I make  I also believe should apply equally in WM including my views on proportional representation.  I was very much anti brexit, I am very much anti boris, I am certainly not pro tory! My politics are right down the middle .. I’m not even a unionist. 

 

my views on independence are 100% driven by what I believe to be the evidence and I 100% believe that Scotland will be worse off for a very long time.
 

in addition - The U.K. union is much deeper, more complex and more emotional than the union with the EU with deep family and work ties. As well as the economic damage I genuinely believe a vote for independence will see Scotland comparable to Northern Ireland. I would not be surprised to see us have our own troubles

 

But it’s independence at all costs isn’t it.  

I don't really see The Scottish Conservatives as Tories, BTW. They're the  Unionist party of Scotland  and I don't have a problem with them. WM Conservative, I will never accept and independence is now, at all costs, before there no Scotland left. They'll never be voted out, and it is now at the point, Boris can do what he wants and still the English electorate, don't give a feck, because they have their independence. 

 

So yes, as always and til I die and beyond, when I come back and haunt you lot. 😝

[manaliveits105]

Nice one Anas 

no party has a majority in our parliament 

 

 

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, The Wrinkly Ninja said:

The Scottish government have borrowing powers now ?

Ten Bob. 

[dobmisterdobster]

19 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Glasgow's regional list winners (no change from 2016)

 

 

Dr Sandesh Gulhane is a sports scientist who works for Queens Park FC. Good to see him elected.

[ri Alban]

Just now, manaliveits105 said:

Nice one Anas 

no party has a majority in our parliament 

 

 

South of Scotland and the North East could come back to haunt him. And your brain will melt out through you nose. 

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, The Wrinkly Ninja said:

The Scottish government have borrowing powers now ?

Is this response in the SNP handbook or something. I’m not really interested in going round that loop again in all honesty. I’m more than conscious you will hear what you want to hear and believe what you want to believe. 

[ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ]

9 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

but the SNP + Greens have more than half the seats for less than half of the vote. It doesn’t work well enough

Start a thread then.

I'm not aware of a nearby example that gets closer to the actual percentages, what country's system were you thinking we should follow?

[sadj]

Scottish Family Party 2000+ votes in Aberdeenshire area 🙁

[sadj]

Liam Kerr back in 🙃🙁

[JudyJudyJudy]

32 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

It's not over. Unionists pain is just beginning....

Perhaps 

[sadj]

Greens on 4 now? 

[ri Alban]

Why did The St get 4 list in NE with a big regional vote plus winning constituency seats. Makes no sense. 

[hughesie27]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Start a thread then.

I'm not aware of a nearby example that gets closer to the actual percentages, what country's system were you thinking we should follow?

Didn't so.eone earlier say that SNP were 48% and Green 4%?

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Smithee said:

Start a thread then.

I'm not aware of a nearby example that gets closer to the actual percentages, what country's system were you thinking we should follow?

I haven’t researched in detail. But why do we need to follow anyone? FPTP is outdated and results in a parliament which does not accurately reflect the will of the people. / even a semi FPTP system like we have here. 
 

One vote per person for one party, and every single vote should count. 100% proportional representation. 

 

[dobmisterdobster]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Why did The St get 4 list in NE with a big regional vote plus winning constituency seats. Makes no sense. 

 

It proves that First-past-the-post is the superior electoral system. I hope Westminster never tries to do a PR. What a mess.

[ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ]

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

Didn't so.eone earlier say that SNP were 48% and Green 4%?

Honestly don't know I haven't seen any of the percentage figures, all I know is that it was mentioned on radio 4 that the SNP got a bigger percentage of the vote than any party has got in any UK election in the last 50 years.

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

Didn't so.eone earlier say that SNP were 48% and Green 4%?

nope. SNP + agree = 48%. conservatives + Labour + Lib Dem’s 52% of the vote.  ( I’ll caveat that by saying there were “others” but not enough to swing the maths. 
 

yet we have a “clear” pro independence majority apparently? And need to reflect the Democratic will of the people 🤷‍♂️ It’s Laughable