Formula 1

[milky_26]

5 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

that’s not actually what they say, he doesn’t get to “manufacture” a last lap shootout under any scenario.

 

 

 the rules say that after all the cars have unlapped themselves the SC comes in at the end of the lap “after” this the race should have finished behind the SC

 

 

he actually got it spot on when he said no unlapping, the. Under pressure from RBR he shit the bed and made the worst call in the history of F1

 

Max DNF at Silverstone was becuase he doesn’t understand how to back out.  And his driving towards the end of the season has been disgraceful in all honesty.. Brazil was a joke as was SA..  he is fast / talented but arrogant and expects everyone to dive out his way.. 

 

he is 100% an  illegitimate champion. Yesterday was disgusting .. 

Actually the rules re unlapping states any not all cars. That is a subtle difference

 

If it was MV fault for Silverstone why did LH get a penalty?

[jvm32]

As I said earlier, I'm just a casual viewer of F1, couldn't have cared less who won out of the two, but the ending all felt just very engineered to try and generate drama. I can kind of understand why they wanted it to end that way, but it doesn't leave a great impression on me as just a casual viewer, who I presume they are trying to attract more of to watch the sport, but that might just be me.

 

I would add it would be even more damaging to the sport to reverse the decision though, so the decision on the day has to stand.

Edited December 13, 2021 by jvm32

[Mikey1874]

This is not the first time unusual and controversial circumstances have come together to produce a last gasp result. For all the precision in motor racing, chaos is always just round the corner. 

 

Clarifying the rules is fair enough. But accepting the result is one of the basic foundations of sport. 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

There's a lot in there that is incorrect but I can tell you're a LH fan so I'll let you calm down for a few days 👍

mclaren fan.

 

and I’m not incorrect 

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

Actually the rules re unlapping states any not all cars. That is a subtle difference

 

If it was MV fault for Silverstone why did LH get a penalty?

 

Because stewards are always wrong when it goes against you and right when it goes against your opponents.

 

I'd be arguing the same stuff if Max had lost in a similar fashion. Much like football, the referee's decision should be final imo.

 

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

mclaren fan.

 

and I’m not incorrect 

 

As Milky has already pointed out, you are.

[Mikey1874]

Far more controversial Lewis Hamilton not winning in 2007 (and then possibly getting help to make up for it in 2008). 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

Because stewards are always wrong when it goes against you and right when it goes against your opponents.

 

I'd be arguing the same stuff if Max had lost in a similar fashion. Much like football, the referee's decision should be final imo.

 

At silvertsone the penalty could have been larger - I think a 10 sec stop and go would have been fair .. but that was the definition of a decision 

 

at Monza, Max made a calculated dive and took them both out, he tried it in Brazil and SA.. these are all sporting calls..

 

yesterday.. was outcome engineering. Like WWE

[Taffin]

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

As Milky has already pointed out, you are.

 

absolutely laugahable.. i actually can’t believe anyone would attempt to defend it. 

Listen to what you are saying, the rightful winner of yesterdays race and WDC lost it becuase the race director fancied a last lap showdown and artificially moved cars out of the way to HAND to championship to verstappen . It wasn’t even a showdown as there was no possibility of defending with 48lap hards against new softs.. h
 

How in the name of god could any reasonable person justify it.. 

 

it wasn’t luck, it wasn’t skill.. the race director decided he fancied max to win it’s as simple as that..

 

his head should be a on a spike..

 

anyway lads - that’s not my motorsport

 

[Taffin]

22 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

absolutely laugahable.. i actually can’t believe anyone would attempt to defend it. 

Listen to what you are saying, the rightful winner of yesterdays race and WDC lost it becuase the race director fancied a last lap showdown and artificially moved cars out of the way to HAND to championship to verstappen . It wasn’t even a showdown as there was no possibility of defending with 48lap hards against new softs.. h
 

How in the name of god could any reasonable person justify it.. 

 

it wasn’t luck, it wasn’t skill.. the race director decided he fancied max to win it’s as simple as that..

 

his head should be a on a spike..

 

anyway lads - that’s not my motorsport

 

 

Swings and roundabouts imo. Max was the better driver over the season quite comfortably (race wins, fastest laps, laps led) and it was only bad luck (avoiding cynicism) of him being taken out of a race twice (and impacted in a third as a result) by a Mercedes driver that even saw it go to the last race.

 

He finally got some good luck, and thanks to their superior strategy, he took it.

 

I don't want races or titles won or lost due to safety cars or by DNFs as a result of your competitors bad driving...but it's how it happened this year. Strip both of those away and Max would have won anyway. Probably a couple of races ago.

 

And as for exploiting the rules to your advantage, I view just taking as many new engines as you fancy because the rest of the field are slow and you've limitless money as not very sporting either. 

 

Hamilton deserves a load of respect as in my view he's demonstrated how to win graciously and also how to lose graciously. Mercedes (and red bull on other occasions) could do with learning from him.

 

Anyway, amazing season. Agree to disagree and we'll be back in March to do it all over again!! 

[merrymac]

11 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Nope, title decided on track. Hamilton could have changed tyres but his team decided to 'play safe'. Big mistake from Toto and unsurprisingly, he is trying to sweep that error away.

The crash at end cost Hamilton, and that was just one of those things, but then again, he won his first title when his friend Timo Glock let him past on last corner.

Didn't see Hamilton supporters worrying too much then.

I am defo not a Hamilton supporter, no allegiance in any direction.

But to say the title was decided on the track when rules wee adjusted to create a particular situation is surprising

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

Swings and roundabouts imo. Max was the better driver over the season quite comfortably (race wins, fastest laps, laps led) and it was only bad luck (avoiding cynicism) of him being taken out of a race twice (and impacted in a third as a result) by a Mercedes driver that even saw it go to the last race.

 

He finally got some good luck, and thanks to their superior strategy, he took it.

 

I don't want races or titles won or lost due to safety cars or by DNFs as a result of your competitors bad driving...but it's how it happened this year. Strip both of those away and Max would have won anyway. Probably a couple of races ago.

 

And as for exploiting the rules to your advantage, I view just taking as many new engines as you fancy because the rest of the field are slow and you've limitless money as not very sporting either. 

 

Hamilton deserves a load of respect as in my view he's demonstrated how to win graciously and also how to lose graciously. Mercedes (and red bull on other occasions) could do with learning from him.

 

Anyway, amazing season. Agree to disagree and we'll be back in March to do it all over again!! 

 

Pretty much agree with all of this. 

 

Next season brings a lot of uncertainty with the new cars. It will be exciting for the first few races to see how the teams have adapted/evolved.

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

2 hours ago, jvm32 said:

As I said earlier, I'm just a casual viewer of F1, couldn't have cared less who won out of the two, but the ending all felt just very engineered to try and generate drama. I can kind of understand why they wanted it to end that way, but it doesn't leave a great impression on me as just a casual viewer, who I presume they are trying to attract more of to watch the sport, but that might just be me.

 

I would add it would be even more damaging to the sport to reverse the decision though, so the decision on the day has to stand.

I'm no fan either but yesterday just screamed cheating and corruption. Mercedes should be dragging them through the courts.

Lewis was at least 5 back markers and over 11 seconds in front when the safety car came out then all of a sudden, his championship rival is half a car length behind him at the restart. That's not right!

[Dazo]

Not a big fan of F1 but took a little interest in this last race shoot out. For the life of me I’m not sure how anyone can think that is fair or even within the rules. Surely all cars must unlap or none ? Someone has created a situation that only impacted 1st and 2nd but not the rest of the field. Not only that but they did so basically knowing who the winner would be. I have no love for LH but he appeared to be in total control until these decisions. As I said though I’m not a follower so maybe this happens all the time ? 

[Cade]

For years, all we've heard is "LET THEM RAAAACE!!!!"

 

And now, when they did "let them race", it's tears and snotters time because your guy lost.

 

[Mikey1874]

8 minutes ago, Cade said:

For years, all we've heard is "LET THEM RAAAACE!!!!"

 

And now, when they did "let them race", it's tears and snotters time because your guy lost.

 

 

Agree

 

Changing the rules to give Lewis Hamilton new tyres to be able to compete perhaps something to consider in review of fall out. It is still the case tyres limit most of what drivers can do. You can't compete with tyres 46 laps old against someone with new soft tyres. 

 

Start to the race was best part of it. Same as previous when Verstappen overtook. More of that next season would be good 

[Malinga the Swinga]

10 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Agree

 

Changing the rules to give Lewis Hamilton new tyres to be able to compete perhaps something to consider in review of fall out. It is still the case tyres limit most of what drivers can do. You can't compete with tyres 46 laps old against someone with new soft tyres. 

 

Start to the race was best part of it. Same as previous when Verstappen overtook. More of that next season would be good 

Hamilton could have stopped and changed tyres whenever his team wanted. They chose not to. Nobody to blame but themselves for that decision.

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Hamilton could have stopped and changed tyres whenever his team wanted. They chose not to. Nobody to blame but themselves for that decision.

 

Not really in this case. 

 

Could have given a 20 second lead to Verstappen. 

 

Shit happens sometimes though. F1 can be a lottery sometimes. Just how it is. They should accept it. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Damon Hill was saying on Sky News this morning that it was Mercedes' fault for not bringing Hamilton in to change tyres when they had the chance to.  Red Bull took the chance because they had nothing to lose and it worked out for them, Mercedes let Hamilton down here.

 

 

[Jambo_jim2001]

Happy Hamilton's been beat,always been a sniveling little gobshite and that's going back to the carting days, exactly the same applies to Coulthard,the one and only reason they like the rest of the F1 drivers get a seat is down to the financial backing they get.i have seen and worked with many who have a natural and brilliant talent,and dare I say it able to run circles around most present day drivers and not only in F1.motorsport like most sports sadly are now nothing but big financial meat grinding machines,that have left many a truly great on the scrapheap

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, Jambo_jim2001 said:

Happy Hamilton's been beat,always been a sniveling little gobshite and that's going back to the carting days, exactly the same applies to Coulthard,the one and only reason they like the rest of the F1 drivers get a seat is down to the financial backing they get.i have seen and worked with many who have a natural and brilliant talent,and dare I say it able to run circles around most present day drivers and not only in F1.motorsport like most sports sadly are now nothing but big financial meat grinding machines,that have left many a truly great on the scrapheap

 

You generally need to be rich to drive in F1.

 

Hamilton the exception basically. And his diversity programme is about getting working class (and black) people into engineering. But fair play if people happy for it to be the millionaires playground. 

[Bigsmak]

11 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Damon Hill was saying on Sky News this morning that it was Mercedes' fault for not bringing Hamilton in to change tyres when they had the chance to.  Red Bull took the chance because they had nothing to lose and it worked out for them, Mercedes let Hamilton down here.

 

 

 

If Hamilton had come in to change tires when the safety car was out, max wouldn't have. He would have been in front on the track.  Would the race have finished under the safety car then?

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, Bigsmak said:

 

If Hamilton had come in to change tires when the safety car was out, max wouldn't have. He would have been in front on the track.  Would the race have finished under the safety car then?

That's the gamble Red Bull took while Toto chose not to. Were Mercedes unlucky with crash near end, yep undoubtedly. 

No more unlucky than when they 'accidentally' took out Verstappen during earlier race.

That's racing.

[milky_26]

It has now came out that in one of his radio communications Hamilton says the result has been manipulated

[Tazio]

2 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

It has now came out that in one of his radio communications Hamilton says the result has been manipulated

Equally at the time there was a radio exchange between Horner and Verstappen when the driver just gave a resigned response and seemed to be accepting of the fact he’d lost the championship. 

[Cade]

[Pasquale for King]

Best driver won, led 652 laps compared to 360, led 15 out of 20 GPS, won 10 to 8. 
Wollf ****ed in the strategy on a race when they had more pace. 

[kingantti1874]

Michael Masi 2020

 

Despite Norris’ car being recovered quickly , the Safety Car stayed out for five laps, which drew complaints from some drivers.

However at that stage leader Lewis Hamilton had lapped all bar his nearest four opponents.

”There’s a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past,” Masi said.

“From that point, it was position six onwards that were still running [on the lead lap], so between 10 or 11 cars had to unlap themselves.

“Therefore the Safety Car period was a bit longer than what we would have normally expected.”

[kingantti1874]

51 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Best driver won, led 652 laps compared to 360, led 15 out of 20 GPS, won 10 to 8. 
Wollf ****ed in the strategy on a race when they had more pace. 

no he didn’t. Why would the pit from the lead when RBR would have stayed out.  And the race was 99% certain to finish under a safety car (until the race director took it upon himself to intervene and apply the rules incorrectly for the sake of the show ) 😂😂 that would have been the definition of dumb.

 

this is no different to the SPFL making up the rules last season.  Only this time pretty much every driver and team is calling it for the shit show it was 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, milky_26 said:

It has now came out that in one of his radio communications Hamilton says the result has been manipulated

That’s not even debatable. It very clearly was manipulated. The only question is how big the fallout will be 

[luckyBatistuta]

Supposedly Toto has accepted the decision and was spotted out on the golf course today relaxing

[I P Knightley]

5 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Damon Hill was saying on Sky News this morning that it was Mercedes' fault for not bringing Hamilton in to change tyres when they had the chance to.  Red Bull took the chance because they had nothing to lose and it worked out for them, Mercedes let Hamilton down here.

I happen to disagree with the vastly experienced former Formula 1 driver and world champion who, himself, was cheated out of a title.

 

Hamilton had two (or three) opportunities to manage tyres differently:

 

He could have driven on with his first set of tyres for quite a few more laps when he was setting fastest lap after fastest lap. It was very unlikely at the time that Verstappen would have got him on the undercut but they played it safe and mirrored what Verstappen did so that they could bank track position. Would have worked, too, without the safety car at the end - even though it was a boring option. 

 

He could have used the virtual safety car period to swap onto fresh tyres. I don't know what he had available to him at the time. If he had decent mediums or hards, he'd be going safe for getting to the end of the race. He may have given up track position to Verstappen but, most likely, would have got it back through pace or with Verstappen having to change tyres later in the race. The only way that he'd have stood a chance of winning once the safety car came out for Latifi would have been if he was running in second place and either (a) Verstappen stopped for fresh rubber - which would have been suicide - or (b) he stopped for fresh softs, Verstappen didn't and Masi created a one lap shoot out for him to overtake Verstappen. 

 

If he'd gone in for tyres on that safety car, it would have almost certainly lost him the race. Verstappen would have stayed out (he had better rubber anyway) and got to the line first. 

[Taffin]

9 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

Supposedly Toto has accepted the decision and was spotted out on the golf course today relaxing

 

Some reports suggesting Lewis asked them to withdraw the appeal and that Toto text his congratulations to Max. Maybe Hamilton's graciousness started to rub off on the big baby. Maybe his fans will be next...won't hold my breath.

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, I P Knightley said:

I happen to disagree with the vastly experienced former Formula 1 driver and world champion who, himself, was cheated out of a title.

 

Hamilton had two (or three) opportunities to manage tyres differently:

 

He could have driven on with his first set of tyres for quite a few more laps when he was setting fastest lap after fastest lap. It was very unlikely at the time that Verstappen would have got him on the undercut but they played it safe and mirrored what Verstappen did so that they could bank track position. Would have worked, too, without the safety car at the end - even though it was a boring option. 

 

He could have used the virtual safety car period to swap onto fresh tyres. I don't know what he had available to him at the time. If he had decent mediums or hards, he'd be going safe for getting to the end of the race. He may have given up track position to Verstappen but, most likely, would have got it back through pace or with Verstappen having to change tyres later in the race. The only way that he'd have stood a chance of winning once the safety car came out for Latifi would have been if he was running in second place and either (a) Verstappen stopped for fresh rubber - which would have been suicide - or (b) he stopped for fresh softs, Verstappen didn't and Masi created a one lap shoot out for him to overtake Verstappen. 

 

If he'd gone in for tyres on that safety car, it would have almost certainly lost him the race. Verstappen would have stayed out (he had better rubber anyway) and got to the line first. 

 

Wouldn't it just have played out in reverse? Lewis would have been on softs for the final lap and would have won. 

[Cade]

aye but maybe coulda woulda shoulda

 

 

tear and snotters all over the place

 

hamilton is a spoiled brat and his fans are even worse

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 hours ago, Bigsmak said:

 

If Hamilton had come in to change tires when the safety car was out, max wouldn't have. He would have been in front on the track.  Would the race have finished under the safety car then?

 

Your guess is as good as mine.

[Sooperstar]

9 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

that’s not actually what they say, he doesn’t get to “manufacture” a last lap shootout under any scenario.

 

 

 the rules say that after all the cars have unlapped themselves the SC comes in at the end of the lap “after” this the race should have finished behind the SC

 

 

he actually got it spot on when he said no unlapping, the. Under pressure from RBR he shit the bed and made the worst call in the history of F1

 

Max DNF at Silverstone was becuase he doesn’t understand how to back out.  And his driving towards the end of the season has been disgraceful in all honesty.. Brazil was a joke as was SA..  he is fast / talented but arrogant and expects everyone to dive out his way.. 

 

he is 100% an  illegitimate champion. Yesterday was disgusting .. 

😂

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

aye but maybe coulda woulda shoulda

 

 

tear and snotters all over the place

 

hamilton is a spoiled brat and his fans are even worse

 

 

Just on the matter of support for Hamilton I was surprised he's been favoured decisively at 80% online vote as better driver and massively in response to comments on the result.

 

Better supported than I thought though like many things, the loud blowhards that don't like him get exaggerated. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/54911288

[Jambo-Jimbo]

15 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

I happen to disagree with the vastly experienced former Formula 1 driver and world champion who, himself, was cheated out of a title.

 

Hamilton had two (or three) opportunities to manage tyres differently:

 

He could have driven on with his first set of tyres for quite a few more laps when he was setting fastest lap after fastest lap. It was very unlikely at the time that Verstappen would have got him on the undercut but they played it safe and mirrored what Verstappen did so that they could bank track position. Would have worked, too, without the safety car at the end - even though it was a boring option. 

 

He could have used the virtual safety car period to swap onto fresh tyres. I don't know what he had available to him at the time. If he had decent mediums or hards, he'd be going safe for getting to the end of the race. He may have given up track position to Verstappen but, most likely, would have got it back through pace or with Verstappen having to change tyres later in the race. The only way that he'd have stood a chance of winning once the safety car came out for Latifi would have been if he was running in second place and either (a) Verstappen stopped for fresh rubber - which would have been suicide - or (b) he stopped for fresh softs, Verstappen didn't and Masi created a one lap shoot out for him to overtake Verstappen. 

 

If he'd gone in for tyres on that safety car, it would have almost certainly lost him the race. Verstappen would have stayed out (he had better rubber anyway) and got to the line first. 

 

As @Taffinsays the situation would have been the reverse if Mercedes had called Hamilton in, and as I said yesterday, Mercedes stuck with the hand they had, whilst Red Bull, who had nothing to lose at the time, said hit me and drew an ace.

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Just on the matter of support for Hamilton I was surprised he's been favoured decisively at 80% online vote as better driver and massively in response to comments on the result.

 

Better supported than I thought though like many things, the loud blowhards that don't like him get exaggerated. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/54911288

 

It's the BBC, if that was an international poll I'd imagine it would be different. 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

It's the BBC, if that was an international poll I'd imagine it would be different. 

 

Verstappen is quite popular in the Netherlands. 

[Taffin]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

Verstappen is quite popular in the Netherlands. 

 

They both have huge global followings. A BBC poll though will have a disproportionate amount LH jim jam wearers though is all I meant in terms of the percentages on it. 👍

[Mikey1874]

18 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

They both have huge global followings. A BBC poll though will have a disproportionate amount LH jim jam wearers though is all I meant in terms of the percentages on it. 👍

 

Shocking isn't it that British people support British sportsmen and women. Quite an eye opener really. 

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Shocking isn't it that British people support British sportsmen and women. Quite an eye opener really. 

 

You've lost me Mikey, sorry. I'm not suggesting they shouldn't. You stated you were surprised by the findings of that poll. For the very reason you've just stated, I'm not surprised that a British media poll has a British driver being favoured by their British readers.

[Des Lynam]

Hamilton showed incredible grace in defeat yesterday. It’s a pity some of the Lewis haters don’t have that in their character as well. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

no he didn’t. Why would the pit from the lead when RBR would have stayed out.  And the race was 99% certain to finish under a safety car (until the race director took it upon himself to intervene and apply the rules incorrectly for the sake of the show ) 😂😂 that would have been the definition of dumb.

 

this is no different to the SPFL making up the rules last season.  Only this time pretty much every driver and team is calling it for the shit show it was 

 

 

But it didn’t did it and Verstappen finished on fresh tyres and passed Hamilton with ease 😆

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, luckyBatistuta said:

Supposedly Toto has accepted the decision and was spotted out on the golf course today relaxing

Hahahahaha 

[Pasquale for King]

20 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Shocking isn't it that British people support British sportsmen and women. Quite an eye opener really. 

I don’t,in fact I’m glad he got he beat because of it 🤣. 

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I don’t,in fact I’m glad he got he beat because of it 🤣. 

 

Admirable to be in a such a small minority.