Formula 1

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Here's how it will probably pan out. The Mercedes appeal is rejected. Mercedes go to the CAS for a fast-track decision. Two days into the hearing, Red Bull say that they will leave the sport if the court finds against it. Mercedes reply by saying that they will do exactly the same. One by one the teams line up behind either Mercedes and Red Bull. The FIA panic and declare both Max and Lewis to be joint champions. All teams vehemently disagree and all the drivers go on strike for the first half of the 2022 season, except for Mazepin who builds up enough of a points total to almost guarantee becoming champion. This creates so much nationalistic pride in Russia that they invade eastern Ukraine. NATO counter by invading Russia and nuclear war breaks out quickly, annihilating most of Earth, thereby robbing Mazepin of glory. But I might be wrong.

 

😂😂😂

 

That's just not believable...mazepin would get too many DNFs even racing against himself to almost guarantee being champion!

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Hamilton and his father came over as worthy champions by congratulating Verstappen and his father, after what must have been a crushing defeat, albeit they've enjoyed the glory plenty times in the past. 

Merceces Benz have displayed that they are only nice guys when they win. To be prepared with legal representation, which is clearly intended to intimidate the race stewards in any dispute, is the behaviour of the bully boy organisation that they have become in F1. 

Horner no doubt winds them up. He is the pantomime villain to them.

If this victory for Verstappen is taken away from him, it could do untold damage to the reputation and popularity of the sport. Many people will just turn off if the dominant team is going to use it's financial muscle to get defeats turned into victories. They've still won the Constructor's championship but it not enough for them. Total domination or the toys are out of the pram.

 

Hamilton and Verstappen have had their moments. But they are the calm ones. Equally I'm sure Max would have graciously accepted a Hamilton title. Unlike Red Bull. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mikey1874

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Formula One is total wank and not a real sport. This episode explains why.

[Taffin]

2 laps earlier or 2 laps later that Latifi dropped it and the outcome may have been definitive...equally the speed at which the team cleared his car away will have influenced the outcome of the race, a little slower and Lewis wins...a little quicker and all cars may have got unlapped. Fine margins!

[milky_26]

craig slater (sky sports) saying he has heard the appeal has been rejected. horner and newey say to wait for official announcement from FIA as they leave the stewards room

[Mikey1874]

The technicality seems to be that by the rules the race shouldn't have been started when it was. A lap later which would have been end of race with Hamilton leading. 

 

But I think the race director should be able to deal with the situation as he sees it and a last lap decider was too good an opportunity to miss. 

[milky_26]

horner smiling and hugging verstappen, that says appeal rejected

[milky_26]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

The technicality seems to be that by the rules the race shouldn't have been started when it was. A lap later which would have been end of race with Hamilton leading. 

 

But I think the race director should be able to deal with the situation as he sees it and a last lap decider was too good an opportunity to miss. 

i think there is a bit in the rules that the race director can decide what to do under a safety car, it seems to be in conflict with the other rule about unlapping cars

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

i think there is a bit in the rules that the race director can decide what to do under a safety car, it seems to be in conflict with the other rule about unlapping cars

 

Yeah

 

It's a good end to a great year. 2 great drivers though 2 horrible teams or at least some of their leaders. 

 

Bring it on for next year with the new regulations. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mikey1874

[Sooperstar]

2nd protest rejected. Max stays the champ.

[Footballfirst]

 

[milky_26]

stewards say rule about when safety car is called into pits overrules the unlapped cars rule

[Tazio]

Very odd. Watching Sky F1 channel with Ted Kravitz just now and it hasn’t been mentioned yet. 
Oddly if he releases a good statement it will be the best image improvement Hamilton has ever managed in terms of his popularity. 

[Tazio]

Confirmed by James Allen

 

 

[Tommy Brown]

A bit like Red and IP Knightley, I like fairness. When I seen the crashed car and 6 laps to go, I couldn't see the race any any hope for MV. The all of a sudden it gets changed to a one lap shoot out.

Fair enough, but pretty unfair on LH with old tyres. There was only going to be one winner then.

Too bizarre for me.

 

[jvm32]

I watch F1 every now and then but not religiously, but the one rule that always confuses me is when a safety car comes out how come some drivers can stop and retain their position and others lose their position? I presume there is a logical reason for it, just never worked it out. Is it just your luck as to where you are on the track when it comes out? 

Edited December 12, 2021 by jvm32

[jvm32]

4 minutes ago, jvm32 said:

I watch F1 every now and then but not religiously, but the one rule that always confuses me is when a safety car comes out how come some drivers can stop and retain their position and others lose their position? I presume there is a logical reason for it, just never worked it out. Is it just your luck as to where you are on the track when it comes out? 

Nevermind, I think I've just worked it out now I actually had a think about it. 

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, jvm32 said:

I watch F1 every now and then but not religiously, but the one rule that always confuses me is when a safety car comes out how come some drivers can stop and retain their position and others lose their position? I presume there is a logical reason for it, just never worked it out. Is it just your luck as to where you are on the track when it comes out? 

 

Full safety car everyone bunshes up in same order. So gaps (eg leader is 10 seconds ahead) are lost. Because they are going slower you lose less time changing tyres but you can still lose position, the problem Lewis had at end. 

[jvm32]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Full safety car everyone bunshes up in same order. So gaps (eg leader is 10 seconds ahead) are lost. Because they are going slower you lose less time changing tyres but you can still lose position, the problem Lewis had at end. 

Cheers, yeh I was wondering why he didn't pit, but verstappen being behind him I guess gave him the jump on Hamilton when Hamilton decided not to pit, or I'm guessing it could have also been due to track position as well if Hamilton was already past the pit lane entry point. 

[Taffin]

41 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Very odd. Watching Sky F1 channel with Ted Kravitz just now and it hasn’t been mentioned yet. 
Oddly if he releases a good statement it will be the best image improvement Hamilton has ever managed in terms of his popularity. 

 

I think that was the re-run of Ted's Notebook. I turned it on to the same but it seemed to be unfolding on sky sports news instead.

 

Odd though they re-ran the notebook so quickly rather than covering the events live.

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, jvm32 said:

Cheers, yeh I was wondering why he didn't pit, but verstappen being behind him I guess gave him the jump on Hamilton when Hamilton decided not to pit, or I'm guessing it could have also been due to track position as well if Hamilton was already past the pit lane entry point. 

 

Mercedes missed the chance to pit earlier gambling there wouldn't be a safety car. So they have to take responsibility too. 

[Sooperstar]

Mercedes are going to launch another appeal.

[luckyBatistuta]

12 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Mercedes are going to launch another appeal.

Launch Mercedes 

[Sooperstar]

I could listen to Toto Wolff's greeting radio messages all night.

 

"No, Michael, no no, Michael, it was so not right". 😂😂😂😂😂

[Mikey1874]

We'll let the idiots make their appeals and their moaning. 

 

We can just look forward to 2022.

 

 

[merrymac]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

The technicality seems to be that by the rules the race shouldn't have been started when it was. A lap later which would have been end of race with Hamilton leading. 

 

But I think the race director should be able to deal with the situation as he sees it and a last lap decider was too good an opportunity to miss. 

So basically the race director decided the outcome(Neil Doncaster clone obviously). He knew the tyre situation would almost certainly lead to a Red Bull win.

So the rules were bent to make sure we had an exciting finish, despite the fact that Merc dominated the race.

Scottish football referees must watch a lot of Formula one

[merrymac]

2 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

A bit like Red and IP Knightley, I like fairness. When I seen the crashed car and 6 laps to go, I couldn't see the race any any hope for MV. The all of a sudden it gets changed to a one lap shoot out.

Fair enough, but pretty unfair on LH with old tyres. There was only going to be one winner then.

Too bizarre for me.

 

With you on that one Tommy

[Malinga the Swinga]

15 minutes ago, merrymac said:

So basically the race director decided the outcome(Neil Doncaster clone obviously). He knew the tyre situation would almost certainly lead to a Red Bull win.

So the rules were bent to make sure we had an exciting finish, despite the fact that Merc dominated the race.

Scottish football referees must watch a lot of Formula one

Nope, title decided on track. Hamilton could have changed tyres but his team decided to 'play safe'. Big mistake from Toto and unsurprisingly, he is trying to sweep that error away.

The crash at end cost Hamilton, and that was just one of those things, but then again, he won his first title when his friend Timo Glock let him past on last corner.

Didn't see Hamilton supporters worrying too much then.

[JackLadd]

Just read on news that Monaco's finest was overtaken on last lap. Wee shame.

[Phage]

3 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

Hamilton and his father came over as worthy champions by congratulating Verstappen and his father, after what must have been a crushing defeat, albeit they've enjoyed the glory plenty times in the past. 

Merceces Benz have displayed that they are only nice guys when they win. To be prepared with legal representation, which is clearly intended to intimidate the race stewards in any dispute, is the behaviour of the bully boy organisation that they have become in F1. 

Horner no doubt winds them up. He is the pantomime villain to them.

If this victory for Verstappen is taken away from him, it could do untold damage to the reputation and popularity of the sport. Many people will just turn off if the dominant team is going to use it's financial muscle to get defeats turned into victories. They've still won the Constructor's championship but it not enough for them. Total domination or the toys are out of the pram.

With Red Bulls protests and Max's driving. With 100's of millions involved over the season, I think having a lawyer handy is a great idea.

[Mikey1874]

7 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Just read on news that Monaco's finest was overtaken on last lap. Wee shame.

 

 

[JackLadd]

16 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

Does young Max also lecture Belgians from his tax free Monaco pad?

[Arse 'Friends' Dyslexic?]

The fact people are trying to argue that there shouldn't have been a return to green flag racing, when there was nothing on the track to impede it, is rather disengenuous (to say the least). 
Lewis and Mercedes were just unlucky.
It happens.

Anyway, for those who hadn't read the result of the appeal...

 

Conclusions of the Stewards :
The Stewards consider that the protest is admissible.
Having considered the various statements made by the parties the Stewards determine the
following:
That Article 15.3 allows the Race Director to control the use of the safety car, which in our
determination includes its deployment and withdrawal.
That although Article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning
to the pits at the end of the following lap, Article 48.13 overrides that and once the message
“Safety Car in this lap” has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end
of that lap.
That notwithstanding Mercedes’ request that the Stewards remediate the matter by amending the
classification to reflect the positions at the end of the penultimate lap, this is a step that the
Stewards believe is effectively shortening the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate.
Accordingly, the Protest is dismissed. The Protest Deposit is not refunded.

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Does young Max also lecture Belgians from his tax free Monaco pad?

 

Too busy shagging is young Max. See what he does next 12 years. 

[JackLadd]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Too busy shagging is young Max. See what he does next 12 years. 

 

Must be nice to be him right enough. 

[I P Knightley]

57 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Too busy shagging is young Max. See what he does next 12 years. 

See he's buffing Nelson Piquet's daughter who previously was with, and had a child with, Daniil Kvyat. So, not only did he take Kvyat's Red Bull seat from him, he also took his bursds and baby. 

[Tazio]

[SectionDJambo]

Mercedes asked Hamilton which tyres he would want if there was a safety car. They then didn’t get him in for new tyres when the safety car was deployed. They thought the race would finish with the safety car, which didn’t happen. 
The Mercedes team let Hamilton down badly and are now trying to deflect their shortcomings by crying foul against Verstappen and Red Bull.

Horner said Verstappen needed a miracle. The arrogance of the Mercedes team provided it.

[JackLadd]

At least Hamilton is not crying like sorest loser Trump over the defeat. Give him his dues for that. 

[coastjambo]

Hamilton was a class act today even in defeat led from the dirty side of the track on slower tyres avoided max nearly wiping him out on the 1st lap. Mercedes didn’t want to lose track position and give max the opportunity to be ahead of Lewis if they finished behind safety car so slam dunk you can’t risk track position and lose the championship your on course to winning. Max would have stayed out on his tyres and no disrespect but even with Hamilton on softs  max doesn’t have the mental maturity to have let pass him he would have taken them both out 

the fia clearly weren’t going to go against they’re own decisions. Like any organization that rules on the decisions they make!
Michael massi really needed to be consistent on this but he folded like a deck of cards when the shit hit the fan.

no cars allowed to unlap themselves, then the cars between lewis and max were allowed to unlap themselves but the other 3 were not 

Congrats to max and red bull

[A Boy Named Crow]

10 hours ago, redjambo said:

Here's how it will probably pan out. The Mercedes appeal is rejected. Mercedes go to the CAS for a fast-track decision. Two days into the hearing, Red Bull say that they will leave the sport if the court finds against it. Mercedes reply by saying that they will do exactly the same. One by one the teams line up behind either Mercedes and Red Bull. The FIA panic and declare both Max and Lewis to be joint champions. All teams vehemently disagree and all the drivers go on strike for the first half of the 2022 season, except for Mazepin who builds up enough of a points total to almost guarantee becoming champion. This creates so much nationalistic pride in Russia that they invade eastern Ukraine. NATO counter by invading Russia and nuclear war breaks out quickly, annihilating most of Earth, thereby robbing Mazepin of glory. But I might be wrong.

Bookmark this ^^^ post! 😁

[kingantti1874]

That was the biggest disgrace in the history of the sport. 
 

to wilfully ignore your own rules, and “engineer”. Last lap shootout all clearly for the sake of the show? It’s just unbelievable- more WWE than F1.

 

Now we have an illegitimate “champion” . I’ll be honest - Mercedes should threaten to leave the sport.  What happened yesterday simply can’t happen.

 

as for the suggestions above that Mercedes’ should have pitted Hamilton.. eh no. - that would have been the dumbest move in the history of the sport based on the actual rules

 

.. either verstappen would have stayed out and they “should” have had to pass 3/4 cars to get back to him or it would have needed behind the SC.  Which is exactly what should have happened.

 

Mercedes’ made the right call based on the actual rules..

[Taffin]

12 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

That was the biggest disgrace in the history of the sport. 
 

to wilfully ignore your own rules, and “engineer”. Last lap shootout all clearly for the sake of the show? It’s just unbelievable- more WWE than F1.

 

Now we have an illegitimate “champion” . I’ll be honest - Mercedes should threaten to leave the sport.  What happened yesterday simply can’t happen.

 

as for the suggestions above that Mercedes’ should have pitted Hamilton.. eh no. - that would have been the dumbest move in the history of the sport based on the actual rules

 

.. either verstappen would have stayed out and they “should” have had to pass 3/4 cars to get back to him or it would have needed behind the SC.  Which is exactly what should have happened.

 

Mercedes’ made the right call based on the actual rules..

 

It would appear not. The actual rules seem to be it's the race director who decides safety car protocol and is in charge of when it goes out and when it comes in.

 

If they'd just immediately told the lapped cars to unlap themselves like almost every other race this would have been avoided. Saying no initially cost them the time for that to happen imo. The only way Hamilton won yesterday was if Masi moved away from their usual approach and didn't let any lapped cars pass (his initial thought process) but then folk would have just said he was engineering a Mercedes win by taking a new approach.

 

The minute the safety was deployed Mercedes lost control. They had no idea whether the race would restart or not but gambled on it not. If it did, it would always have been a 1 lap shoot out. The 'compromise' happened because initially Masi made the wrong decision then tried to correct it...imo.

 

 

In terms of pole positions, races won and laps led, it's a bit harsh to call Max an illegitimate champion, I'm with Alonso on it. He was the best driver this year, and Mercedes made the best car. It was only ever close due to Max's 3 DNFs. One cause by him, 2 caused by Mercedes.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Taffin

[milky_26]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

It would appear not. The actual rules seem to be it's the race director who decides safety car protocol and is in charge of when it goes out and when it comes in.

 

If they'd just immediately told the lapped cars to unlap themselves like almost every other race this would have been avoided. Saying no initially cost them the time for that to happen imo. The only way Hamilton won yesterday was if Masi moved away from their usual approach and didn't let any lapped cars pass (his initial thought process) but then folk would have just said he was engineering a Mercedes win by taking a new approach.

 

The minute the safety was deployed Mercedes lost control. They had no idea whether the race would restart or not but gambled on it not. If it did, it would always have been a 1 lap shoot out. The 'compromise' happened because initially Masi made the wrong decision then tried to correct it...imo.

 

 

In terms of pole positions, races won and laps led, it's a bit harsh to call Max an illegitimate champion, I'm with Alonso on it. He was the best driver this year, and Mercedes made the best car. It was only ever close due to Max's 3 DNFs. One cause by him, 2 caused by Mercedes.

Also one of those DNFs max got a double punishment as he ended up out of the Hungary race due to Bottas using his car as a bowling ball and the damage caused meant engine damage which meant they got an engine penalty.

 

You also have toto on the radio not wanting a safety car for the latifi crash. If he had got his way I could see someone probably a Marshall getting seriously injured

 

[kingantti1874]

That’s not actually what they say, they say he can overrule the clerk of the course.. 

 

not that he can arbitrarily decide how many cars can unlap themselves 😂

 

Mercedes’ got it spot on.  

[Taffin]

Just now, milky_26 said:

Also one of those DNFs max got a double punishment as he ended up out of the Hungary race due to Bottas using his car as a bowling ball and the damage caused meant engine damage which meant they got an engine penalty.

 

Very true, I'm not sour graping over it as it's part of racing and it happens. There's a big element of luck involved. Fortune favours the bold...as it did yesterday.

 

Just now, milky_26 said:

You also have toto on the radio not wanting a safety car for the latifi crash. If he had got his way I could see someone probably a Marshall getting seriously injured

 

 

[Taffin]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

That’s not actually what they say, they say he can overrule the clerk of the course.. 

 

not that he can arbitrarily decide how many cars can unlap themselves 😂

 

Mercedes’ got it spot on.  

 

That's exactly what they said:

 

"Article 15.3 allows the Race Director to control the use of the safety car, which in our determination includes its deployment and withdrawal."

 

You determine it differently but I guess the stewards probably know better.

 

Mercedes got it spot on for a 2nd place finish and they delivered it wonderfully.

[kingantti1874]

13 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

It would appear not. The actual rules seem to be it's the race director who decides safety car protocol and is in charge of when it goes out and when it comes in.

 

that’s not actually what they say, he doesn’t get to “manufacture” a last lap shootout under any scenario.

 

13 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

If they'd just immediately told the lapped cars to unlap themselves like almost every other race this would have been avoided. Saying no initially cost them the time for that to happen imo. The only way Hamilton won yesterday was if Masi moved away from their usual approach and didn't let any lapped cars pass (his initial thought process) but then folk would have just said he was engineering a Mercedes win by taking a new approach.

 

 the rules say that after all the cars have unlapped themselves the SC comes in at the end of the lap “after” this the race should have finished behind the SC

 

13 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

The minute the safety was deployed Mercedes lost control. They had no idea whether the race would restart or not but gambled on it not. If it did, it would always have been a 1 lap shoot out. The 'compromise' happened because initially Masi made the wrong decision then tried to correct it...imo.

 

he actually got it spot on when he said no unlapping, the. Under pressure from RBR he shit the bed and made the worst call in the history of F1

 

13 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

In terms of pole positions, races won and laps led, it's a bit harsh to call Max an illegitimate champion, I'm with Alonso on it. He was the best driver this year, and Mercedes made the best car. It was only ever close due to Max's 3 DNFs. One cause by him, 2 caused by Mercedes.

Max DNF at Silverstone was becuase he doesn’t understand how to back out.  And his driving towards the end of the season has been disgraceful in all honesty.. Brazil was a joke as was SA..  he is fast / talented but arrogant and expects everyone to dive out his way.. 

 

he is 100% an  illegitimate champion. Yesterday was disgusting .. 

[kingantti1874]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That's exactly what they said:

 

"Article 15.3 allows the Race Director to control the use of the safety car, which in our determination includes its deployment and withdrawal."

 

You determine it differently but I guess the stewards probably know better.

 

Mercedes got it spot on for a 2nd place finish and they delivered it wonderfully.

Yes the actual deployment a and withdrawal of the SC.  Not that cars 1,2,3 are allowed to unlap but not cars 4,5,6 etc. why was sainz not allowed to go for the win for example? He was left with backmarkers in front 

 

there were 2 options..

 

1. he could restart with no cars having unlapped themselves - that would have been fine and if max had won it would be ok, that was bad luck but move on.

 

2. all cars unlap themselves and the SC comes in the lap after.  
 

there is no scenario where the race director

“decides” how many cars get to unlap themselves to put the 2 front runners together.  

 

The stewards have been put in an impossible situation by masi’s stupidity

Edited December 13, 2021 by kingantti1874

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

that’s not actually what they say, he doesn’t get to “manufacture” a last lap shootout under any scenario.

 

 

 the rules say that after all the cars have unlapped themselves the SC comes in at the end of the lap “after” this the race should have finished behind the SC

 

 

he actually got it spot on when he said no unlapping, the. Under pressure from RBR he shit the bed and made the worst call in the history of F1

 

Max DNF at Silverstone was becuase he doesn’t understand how to back out.  And his driving towards the end of the season has been disgraceful in all honesty.. Brazil was a joke as was SA..  he is fast / talented but arrogant and expects everyone to dive out his way.. 

 

he is 100% an  illegitimate champion. Yesterday was disgusting .. 

 

There's a lot in there that is incorrect but I can tell you're a LH fan so I'll let you calm down for a few days 👍