Official Neilson Out Thread ( merged )

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

How many times have you replied while ignoring the key point that the court case was a result of the demotion Stendel landed us in.

So it wasn't because the league got stopped etc, erm for what it's worth did the Premier league get called when it stopped, what about the English championship?. 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

So it wasn't because the league got stopped etc, erm for what it's worth did the Premier league get called when it stopped, what about the English championship?. 

 

Me trying to debate with you:

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by frankblack

[Bongo 1874]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

He did get a transfer window to bring in his own players and they were not good enough on the whole.

 

I get what you are saying about trying to change the style of play, but that was perhaps naive given we needed to stabalise and avoid being reckless in our approach.  You could drive a bus through our defence with his attempts to make us more attacking.

You can still drive a bus through it just ask Alloa, Brora, Queen of the South, Dundee 😂😂 and that's with Craig Gordon in goal offfftt. 

[Bongo 1874]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Me trying to debate with you:

 

😁. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

You can still drive a bus through it just ask Alloa, Brora, Queen of the South, Dundee 😂😂 and that's with Craig Gordon in goal offfftt. 

 

 

So? How does that make Daniel a success?

[Unknown user]

12 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Yeah Ann took on the legal case because of Stendel, not because her and thousands of other supporters, thought it was unfair for us to be demoted. 

 

Yeah you are right fella. 

 

That's not what he's saying though is it? He's saying that Daniel failed to get the results needed to keep us off the bottom of the table. 

 

We fought the expulsion because it was unfair, but it wasn't unfair that we were bottom of the table.

[Bongo 1874]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

 

So? How does that make Daniel a success?

Stendel at Barnsley given a full pre season was unbeaten at home, 

 

Barnsley hit the ground running under him. They had a really strong home record - they didn’t lose at Oakwell in the whole of last season - and they also had the best defensive record in the whole of the EFL last term. 

 

 

Robbie has never went unbeaten at home in the Scottish championship never mind, English league 1.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Bongo 1874

[Debut 4]

15 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I was very much team stendel, he got the benefit of the doubt all the way until the St Mirren game. That was when I started re-evaluating what I'd seen.

For sure it was a challenging position to come into but he failed to balance his ideals with pragmatism and failed to get anything out of the team for that massive game.

 

Having said that, for me he should have had more time, I really do think a manager should get 2 seasons except in extreme circumstances, but the decision was taken and I move on to supporting the next Hearts manager. I'd still be vaguely supportive of Stendel if it wasn't for the massively irritating campaign trying to convince us that the guy can fly.

He made a bit of an arse of it but TBH I can forgive that to an extent, I expect that from managers until they find their feet in a role and get to shape things how they want properly. I don't think he was a massive failure, but I'm not having that he was amazing either (not you, you know who!)

👍🏻

[King prawn]

Can’t believe there are people defending Stendel still. Half a season to go and he starts trying to change the entire playing style and philosophy of the club. Ends up getting us in a position where we could be demoted - not what we needed at the time. Likeable chap and was treated poorly at the end by the club but a poor manager for us. 

[Debut 4]

16 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

He did get a transfer window to bring in his own players and they were not good enough on the whole.

 

I get what you are saying about trying to change the style of play, but that was perhaps naive given we needed to stabalise and avoid being reckless in our approach.  You could drive a bus through our defence with his attempts to make us more attacking.

Fair enough.  

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Stendel at Barnsley given a full pre season was unbeaten at home, 

 

Barnsley hit the ground running under him. They had a really strong home record - they didn’t lose at Oakwell in the whole of last season - and they also had the best defensive record in the whole of the EFL last term. 

 

 

Robbie has never went unbeaten at home in the Scottish championship never mind, English league 1.

 

Aye, so? How does that mean the defence wasn't shite under Daniel?

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Aye, so? How does that mean the defence wasn't shite under Daniel?

You have just said a manager should be judged over 2 seasons further up, or are you changing you're mind now?. 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Can’t believe there are people defending Stendel still. Half a season to go and he starts trying to change the entire playing style and philosophy of the club. Ends up getting us in a position where we could be demoted - not what we needed at the time. Likeable chap and was treated poorly at the end by the club but a poor manager for us. 

 

It's mental eh? I'm sure we can all see it could have gone either way with him if he'd had a chance. But he didn't get a chance and we can only judge him on what actually happened. Which was shit.

[frankblack]

11 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

You can still drive a bus through it just ask Alloa, Brora, Queen of the South, Dundee 😂😂 and that's with Craig Gordon in goal offfftt. 

 

Craig Gordon wasn't in goals for the Brora tie or QoS home game. 👍

 

Perhaps you'd have preferred the hologram? 

 

 

 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

You have just said a manager should be judged over 2 seasons further up, or are you changing you're mind now?. 

You were answering a point about how the defence was shit under Daniel. It was, you can deflect away, but it was, and with the worst keeper I've seen behind it.

 

And I do think a manager should get 2 seasons, but so what? I'm only prepared to judge them on the time they had, not some mythical horned version that you're conjuring up.

 

And to be clear, the only reason I can't be arsed with Stendel now is your campaign, I probably had a fairly neutral view of him before you scunnered me on the guy.

[Bongo 1874]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Craig Gordon wasn't in goals for the Brora tie or QoS home game. 👍

 

Perhaps you'd have preferred the hologram? 

 

 

 

What's the excuse for Alloa and Dundee 😂😂. 

 

Craig Gordon wasn't in goals against Brora or Queen of the South, sorry you know when the sub is coming on and the announcer says his name, and the fans shout Whooo? 😂. 

[Bongo 1874]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

You were answering a point about how the defence was shit under Daniel. It was, you can deflect away, but it was, and with the worst keeper I've seen behind it.

 

And I do think a manager should get 2 seasons, but so what? I'm only prepared to judge them on the time they had, not some mythical horned version that you're conjuring up.

 

And to be clear, the only reason I can't be arsed with Stendel now is your campaign, I probably had a fairly neutral view of him before you scunnered me on the guy.

Yeah right... 

 

You just said a manager should be judged over 2 seasons, but you're judging him over 3 months right..... 😂. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Bongo 1874

[Unknown user]

Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

Yeah right... 

 

 

Feel free to search my posts. You can apologise by PM, I won't make you do it in public

[fast_blood]

Has anyone seen the film Groundhog Day? 

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

What's the excuse for Alloa and Dundee 😂😂. 

 

 

So Craig cost us the Alloa and Dundee defeats?

 

2 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Craig Gordon wasn't in goals against Brora or Queen of the South, sorry you know when the sub is coming on and the announcer says his name, and the fans shout Whooo? 😂. 

 

I've no idea what point you think you are making, and I'm not sure you know either.

 

 

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Yeah right... 

 

You just said a manager should be judged over 2 seasons, but you're judging him over 3 months right..... 😂. 

 

Liar. I said a manager should get 2 seasons. I also said they should only be judged on the time they have, not the time you wish they'd had.

 

[GinRummy]

10 minutes ago, fast_blood said:

Has anyone seen the film Groundhog Day? 

I got you babe.

[The Old Tolbooth]

17 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Can’t believe there are people defending Stendel still. Half a season to go and he starts trying to change the entire playing style and philosophy of the club. Ends up getting us in a position where we could be demoted - not what we needed at the time. Likeable chap and was treated poorly at the end by the club but a poor manager for us. 

 

I can't believe folk on here are still defending Neilson tbh, he's a horrendous coach/manager and Budge had zero clue of who to appoint and done a "jobs for the boys" type appointment, and gave the job to someone who dropped his knickers to the first tinpot English outfit that showed a bit of interest last time. 

 

Stendel on the other hand, was left an absolute rotten carcass to work with and we were heading very much to the bottom had Levein stayed on, he at least tried something different and had to do it with both hands tied around his back as Levein spunked all the budget in the summer and left him nothing at all to work with. He was never going to turn that sorry shower of shit round in that short space of time. The only regret I have about Stendel is he kept on playing poppadom hands, but the rest of the team were every bit as bad as there was zero confidence to take from anything Levein had left us with. The way the club treated Stendel was awful! 

[fast_blood]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

I got you babe.

 

Hahahahaha

[King prawn]

2 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

I can't believe folk on here are still defending Neilson tbh, he's a horrendous coach/manager and Budge had zero clue of who to appoint and done a "jobs for the boys" type appointment, and gave the job to someone who dropped his knickers to the first tinpot English outfit that showed a bit of interest last time. 

 

Stendel on the other hand, was left an absolute rotten carcass to work with and we were heading very much to the bottom had Levein stayed on, he at least tried something different and had to do it with both hands tied around his back as Levein spunked all the budget in the summer and left him nothing at all to work with. He was never going to turn that sorry shower of shit round in that short space of time. The only regret I have about Stendel is he kept on playing poppadom hands, but the rest of the team were every bit as bad as there was zero confidence to take from anything Levein had left us with. The way the club treated Stendel was awful! 

We were playing 2 in defence at times under him when we were already shipping goals left, right and centre! His decision to keep playing the worst goalkeeper we’ve ever had was criminal and let’s not forget some of the utter dross he signed - Marcel Langer ffs. He ultimately left us in last position from which we got demoted. 
 

As for Nielson, he should’ve gone after the Brora result but I get the feeling that Savage is not going to take any messing around and if we aren’t playing well and winning games next season, Nielson will be off. 

[The Old Tolbooth]

7 minutes ago, King prawn said:

We were playing 2 in defence at times under him when we were already shipping goals left, right and centre! His decision to keep playing the worst goalkeeper we’ve ever had was criminal and let’s not forget some of the utter dross he signed - Marcel Langer ffs. He ultimately left us in last position from which we got demoted. 
 

As for Nielson, he should’ve gone after the Brora result but I get the feeling that Savage is not going to take any messing around and if we aren’t playing well and winning games next season, Nielson will be off. 

 

Let's hope you're right mate re Savage, and for what it's worth I totally agree with Langer, he was brutal as a player, but to be fair he had zero budget to work with, Neilson brought in 3 of the worst wingers I've ever seen in my life and he had plenty budget to work with. I think I'm just pissed off that we got rid of Stendel and replaced him with someone like Neilson because she hadn't a clue, she stated at the very start of her tenure that she hasn't got a clue about football, and by god she's proved it. 

[luckydug]

5 minutes ago, King prawn said:

We were playing 2 in defence at times under him when we were already shipping goals left, right and centre! His decision to keep playing the worst goalkeeper we’ve ever had was criminal and let’s not forget some of the utter dross he signed - Marcel Langer ffs. He ultimately left us in last position from which we got demoted. 
 

As for Nielson, he should’ve gone after the Brora result but I get the feeling that Savage is not going to take any messing around and if we aren’t playing well and winning games next season, Nielson will be off. 

Savage and Neilson are equal in

pecking order at the club. 

Savage does not have the final say on Neilson employment any more than Neilson has over Savage. 

In my view if things go tits up again and new signings follow the usual dross pattern then they should BOTH go. 

[August Landmesser]

32 minutes ago, fast_blood said:

Has anyone seen the film Groundhog Day? 

If Bongo comes out and sees his shadow, it's six more weeks of Stendel chat

[Lfhearts]

If Savage cannot change the norm, it will be same old same old, unable to play any style of attacking football away from Tynecastle. As we all know Nielson will play boring, risk free shit.

[jr ewing]

5 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Savage and Neilson are equal in

pecking order at the club. 

Savage does not have the final say on Neilson employment any more than Neilson has over Savage. 

In my view if things go tits up again and new signings follow the usual dross pattern then they should BOTH go. 

Hands tied offering a low basic is going to be a problem. 

[fast_blood]

14 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

If Bongo comes out and sees his shadow, it's six more weeks of Stendel chat

🤣🤣🤣

[Unknown user]

21 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Let's hope you're right mate re Savage, and for what it's worth I totally agree with Langer, he was brutal as a player, but to be fair he had zero budget to work with, Neilson brought in 3 of the worst wingers I've ever seen in my life and he had plenty budget to work with. I think I'm just pissed off that we got rid of Stendel and replaced him with someone like Neilson because she hadn't a clue, she stated at the very start of her tenure that she hasn't got a clue about football, and by god she's proved it. 

 

For balance Stendel also brought in one of the worst wingers I've ever seen in Avdijaj

[King prawn]

33 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Savage and Neilson are equal in

pecking order at the club. 

Savage does not have the final say on Neilson employment any more than Neilson has over Savage. 

In my view if things go tits up again and new signings follow the usual dross pattern then they should BOTH go. 

Maybe I’m getting my wires crossed but didn’t Savage call a meeting between Nielson and the senior players after one of the many poor performances  last season and for the last few games there was a noticeable change ? 
 

Perhaps it wasn’t Savage. 

[The Old Tolbooth]

28 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

For balance Stendel also brought in one of the worst wingers I've ever seen in Avdijaj

 

I'l definitely give you that one as he was mince, but Robbie had budget, Stendel had buttons, although to be fair Avdijaj had some pedigree to his name, he was just a lazy wage thief who was finished when he washed up here, Frear, Roberts, and Kastaneer had nothing of note. 

[luckydug]

36 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Maybe I’m getting my wires crossed but didn’t Savage call a meeting between Nielson and the senior players after one of the many poor performances  last season and for the last few games there was a noticeable change ? 
 

Perhaps it wasn’t Savage. 

I was basing my post on one of Mrs Budge's statements after Daniel left and Robbie was appointed. 

When she proposed a Sporting Director who would work with Robbie and both would have equal status and both would ultimately report to the CEO. 

In my view they would both be accountable. 

[davemclaren]

46 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Maybe I’m getting my wires crossed but didn’t Savage call a meeting between Nielson and the senior players after one of the many poor performances  last season and for the last few games there was a noticeable change ? 
 

Perhaps it wasn’t Savage. 

That’s the rumour anyway. 

[Beni]

38 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I was basing my post on one of Mrs Budge's statements after Daniel left and Robbie was appointed. 

When she proposed a Sporting Director who would work with Robbie and both would have equal status and both would ultimately report to the CEO. 

In my view they would both be accountable. 

 

Bob said in a recent interview:

 

"I report into Joe Savage [sporting director] and then to Andrew and obviously Ann is at the top of that".

 

It doesn't sound like Savage is Rob's line manager, otherwise you wouldn't expect him to be reporting to McKinlay too.

Let's hope the areas of responsibility and accountability have been set out clearly and are adhered to.

The lack of accountability has been at the heart of the underperformance of the last few years, with Levein allowed to mark his own homework, and Budge believing any old pish he made up.

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by fancy a brew

[luckydug]

6 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Bob said in a recent interview:

 

"I report into Joe Savage [sporting director] and then to Andrew and obviously Ann is at the top of that".

 

It doesn't sound like Savage is Rob's line manager, otherwise you wouldn't expect him to be reporting to McKinlay too.

Let's hope the areas of responsibility and accountability have been set out and are adhered to.

The lack of accountability has been at the heart of the underperformance of the last few years, with Levein allowed to mark his own homework, and Budge believing any old pish he made up.

The days of your last paragraph are now history, hopefully. 

I find the story about JS having a meeting with the players without Robbies presence odd. It would suggest Robbie is on an even shooglier peg than we imagined. 

[davemclaren]

13 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Bob said in a recent interview:

 

"I report into Joe Savage [sporting director] and then to Andrew and obviously Ann is at the top of that".

 

It doesn't sound like Savage is Rob's line manager, otherwise you wouldn't expect him to be reporting to McKinlay too.

Let's hope the areas of responsibility and accountability have been set out clearly and are adhered to.

The lack of accountability has been at the heart of the underperformance of the last few years, with Levein allowed to mark his own homework, and Budge believing any old pish he made up.

 

 

 

That does read to me as Joe being Robbie’s line manager. 

[King prawn]

15 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Bob said in a recent interview:

 

"I report into Joe Savage [sporting director] and then to Andrew and obviously Ann is at the top of that".

 

It doesn't sound like Savage is Rob's line manager, otherwise you wouldn't expect him to be reporting to McKinlay too.

Let's hope the areas of responsibility and accountability have been set out clearly and are adhered to.

The lack of accountability has been at the heart of the underperformance of the last few years, with Levein allowed to mark his own homework, and Budge believing any old pish he made up.

 

 

 

Doesn’t look like Nielson and Savage are equals in the hierarchy to me based off of that. 

[King prawn]

10 minutes ago, luckydug said:

The days of your last paragraph are now history, hopefully. 

I find the story about JS having a meeting with the players without Robbies presence odd. It would suggest Robbie is on an even shooglier peg than we imagined. 

So he should be for a lot of the performances between December and March. 

[Beni]

9 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

That does read to me as Joe being Robbie’s line manager. 

 

7 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Doesn’t look like Nielson and Savage are equals in the hierarchy to me based off of that. 

 

I'm just basing it on what Nielson said. If the chain of command/responsibility is McKinlay-Savage-Neilson, then I wouldn't expect Neilson to be reporting to McKinlay.

Anyway hopefully the protagonists know what's what, and in the unlikely event of things going wrong everyone knows where they stand.

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, fast_blood said:

Has anyone seen the film Groundhog Day? 

Loads of times 🤔😂

[Last Laff]

3 hours ago, King prawn said:

Can’t believe there are people defending Stendel still. Half a season to go and he starts trying to change the entire playing style and philosophy of the club. Ends up getting us in a position where we could be demoted - not what we needed at the time. Likeable chap and was treated poorly at the end by the club but a poor manager for us. 

He took over a basket case in freefall for years.  I blame whoever appointed him and kept Levein kicking about more mind you.

[Martin_T]

3 hours ago, King prawn said:

Can’t believe there are people defending Stendel still. Half a season to go and he starts trying to change the entire playing style and philosophy of the club. Ends up getting us in a position where we could be demoted - not what we needed at the time. Likeable chap and was treated poorly at the end by the club but a poor manager for us. 

 

It's been done to death.

 

But as per one of Ann Budge's recent statements, he was hired on the premise that he would change the playing style and philosophy of the club. So he was acting under his remit. The timing of the appointment was horribly wrong though, in retrospect we may have been better served making a pragmatic short term appointment, Stuart McCall or similar, with the intention that Stendel would then take over the following pre-season. 

 

The fact that we had such a horribly unbalanced squad, with no competent goalkeepers etc was the fault of his predecessor.

 

Ann Budge Statement

 

 

Quote

In December 2019, we had brought in a new first team manager, Daniel Stendel, with the stated aim of playing an exciting, attacking style of football. 

 

[Pasquale for King]

12 hours ago, Martin_T said:

 

It's been done to death.

 

But as per one of Ann Budge's recent statements, he was hired on the premise that he would change the playing style and philosophy of the club. So he was acting under his remit. The timing of the appointment was horribly wrong though, in retrospect we may have been better served making a pragmatic short term appointment, Stuart McCall or similar, with the intention that Stendel would then take over the following pre-season. 

 

The fact that we had such a horribly unbalanced squad, with no competent goalkeepers etc was the fault of his predecessor.

 

Ann Budge Statement

 

 

 

Spot on, I think he might still have struggled to turn the squad around last summer but RN signed 13 players so I’m sure he would’ve managed. 

[Last Laff]

Alex Neil's available?

[martoon]

7 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Alex Neil's available?

 

Only to the OF up here, apparently.

 

His words.

[Last Laff]

23 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Only to the OF up here, apparently.

 

His words.

Savage link persuade him?

[martoon]

50 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Savage link persuade him?

 

Perhaps. Forgot about that.