sandylejambo Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 8 hours ago, Dr. Sheldon Cooper said: We quite clearly want Adebayo in the door now otherwise we wouldn't be spending all this time and effort negotiating with Walsall to bring him up here. A pre-contract is an easy solution but could work against us. Walsall could play hard ball and just not bother negotiating with us, but as a result could freeze Adebayo out the team meaning he could come up here in the summer having not kicked a ball for 4 or 5 months. Not exactly ideal. If we're confident of agreeing a fee that suits both parties then it makes absolute sense to get him in now and settled ahead of next season. I don't think Walsall are swimming in cash, so keeping a player that's signed a pre contract just to teach him a lesson while still paying his wages is probably a non starter or them. So really we should get him for around the £50,000 at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajthejambo Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 What are the "lies" their manager is referring too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Louis Valois Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Every Hearts supporter want's Cochrane to come back and do well, but it's not going to happen. He is miles away from getting into our first team. It would be the best thing for him to move on from Hearts this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deans Jambo Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, GinRummy said: Good news. Would be great if he came back into the side. Wonder if he’ll be recalled and feature if Montrose league doesn’t restart. Hopefully League 1 & 2 get going again. Much better for him to get continued games under his belt. Particularly needs to get in full 90mins each week as stamina is one of his weaknesses. Won't survive playing centre mid in the SPFL if his stamina doesn't last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimosavi Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 None of our youngsters are good enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Dongcaster Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Just now, kimosavi said: None of our youngsters are good enough That’s a very sweeping statement. Irving is certainly good enough for a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG_HMFC Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Jean Louis Valois said: Every Hearts supporter want's Cochrane to come back and do well, but it's not going to happen. He is miles away from getting into our first team. It would be the best thing for him to move on from Hearts this summer. Cochrane reminds me a wee bit of Tony Watt. Burst on the scene, scored a goal in a high profile game, lived off that reputation and lapped it up thinking he had made it only to find himself out the team and, most likely, find himself gone from the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, kimosavi said: None of our youngsters are good enough Fact? Does that include Irving? If so, you are simply wrong. Then there is Stone, Flatman, Hamilton, Logan and more and more who frankly I doubt anyone knows if they're good enough yet, even our coaches. If they get 1st team opportunities they'll grab it or not. So... none? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 As i said earlier the moaners will move on from Berra to someone else. It's now Cochrane's turn. WTF this has to do with transfers ts tenuous at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 10 hours ago, Sir Gio said: Darrell Clarke sounds like a rocket Agree. Big Joe Savage will live up to his name & tell gobby Darrell to GTF or risk having to watch games from a wheelchair in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimosavi Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 23 minutes ago, TheBigO said: Fact? Does that include Irving? If so, you are simply wrong. Then there is Stone, Flatman, Hamilton, Logan and more and more who frankly I doubt anyone knows if they're good enough yet, even our coaches. If they get 1st team opportunities they'll grab it or not. So... none? How many have made us a profit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Have we signed this big chap from Walsall yet? The boy must be chompin' at the bit to get out of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Deans Jambo said: Hopefully League 1 & 2 get going again. Much better for him to get continued games under his belt. Particularly needs to get in full 90mins each week as stamina is one of his weaknesses. Won't survive playing centre mid in the SPFL if his stamina doesn't last. Cheers 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 23 minutes ago, kimosavi said: How many have made us a profit? Hardly a fair test of success these days. How many have nailed a spot in the first team is a fairer way to evaluate it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hardy’s Dug Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 If we’ve offered 6 figures the player must have agreed terms with us if not signed them - or his agent and Savge have agreed them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Cochrane definitely has the tools to make it.....he made one pass in a match earlier this season that I doubt anyone else in our squad is capable off. I really wish/hope whatever is holding him back can be fixed......or he’ll be gone. I’d be happy to send him away for two seasons at a Championship club so he can get regular football and be settled with a view to coming back. It would be a real shame if he drifted off into football obscurity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimosavi Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 minute ago, GinRummy said: Hardly a fair test of success these days. How many have nailed a spot in the first team is a fairer way to evaluate it all. Whole point of the academy was to bring youth through, play them in 1st team then sell for a profit. The only one thats done that is Paterson. He's the only one that's nailed a first team slot down. There is hope for Irving granted but he's playing against championship sides his true test will be next season on the SPL. I don't want them to fail but the academy since administration isn't producing the amount of talent its costs to run it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameron79 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 minute ago, GinRummy said: Cheers 👍 Hard to judge from the stats but when he's played more than 65 min, Montrose have went on to win. He has the ability, I think its a case of building his physicality. He's still at a good age for that. Theres still hope for him. Would take him progressing into a first teamer over signing another journeymen that we've been subjected to in previous windows. Adebayo sounds promising so let's get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 13 hours ago, bazman said: I wonder if they are claiming that hearts have been leaking the fact we are linked with him and that they had rejected our approach in order to unsettle the player 11 hours ago, Sir Gio said: Darrell Clarke sounds like a rocket It's nearly always the player's agent who leaks stories to the press. Seems most obvious when new deal being negotiated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimosavi Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Neil Dongcaster said: That’s a very sweeping statement. Irving is certainly good enough for a start. He's looking promising 👌 but let's no forget He's playing championship players the true test for him is next season against spl opposition. I like the laddie looks to have what's required but other than him, the academy isn't producing enough talent that can play 1st team football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Just now, kimosavi said: Whole point of the academy was to bring youth through, play them in 1st team then sell for a profit. The only one thats done that is Paterson. He's the only one that's nailed a first team slot down. There is hope for Irving granted but he's playing against championship sides his true test will be next season on the SPL. I don't want them to fail but the academy since administration isn't producing the amount of talent its costs to run it I don’t disagree but the way contracts work these days it’s unusual for players to leave Scottish clubs for any money at all. If we can get two or three more like Irving and Hickey featuring regularly in the first team that’s about the best we can hope for. How many teams in Scottish top league have teams full of players from their youth system that they then sell at a profit? It’s pie in the sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stendelnator Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, kimosavi said: Whole point of the academy was to bring youth through, play them in 1st team then sell for a profit. The only one thats done that is Paterson. He's the only one that's nailed a first team slot down. There is hope for Irving granted but he's playing against championship sides his true test will be next season on the SPL. I don't want them to fail but the academy since administration isn't producing the amount of talent its costs to run it I must have imagined Aaron Hickey being sold to a Serie A club this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sertse Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, bajthejambo said: What are the "lies" their manager is referring too? The whole thing seems pretty surreal, the skeptic in me says that we've never been that interested in signing him and it's just to drum up interest, all the manager making weird claims etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Dongcaster Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, kimosavi said: He's looking promising 👌 but let's no forget He's playing championship players the true test for him is next season against spl opposition. I like the laddie looks to have what's required but other than him, the academy isn't producing enough talent that can play 1st team football I agree the academy isn’t producing. However, Irving showed real potential in a horrid Hearts team last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Just now, Neil Dongcaster said: I agree the academy isn’t producing. However, Irving showed real potential in a horrid Hearts team last year. It was never going to produce the conveyor belt of talent that some were expecting. Never will either. It happens so rarely at any club, particularly a club our size, that it’s bordering on fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 46 minutes ago, kimosavi said: How many have made us a profit? So, none of our youngsters "have been" good enough? Or none of our youngsters "are" good enough? Which is it? Both wrong by the way. Paterson. Good enough. Nicholson. Good enough. Walker. Good enough (pre move and injuries) . Hickey. Good enough. Irving. Good enough. There are more were far from elite but good enough in a squad like Brandon and quite s number in that bracket. Then there's the ones who are yer to really break through. Stone, Flatman, Hamilton, Logan, Smith and more. May well be good enough. Basing it on how much money they've made us is frankly ridiculous. It's the mentality of the fifa/FM expert rather than a real world view. All the kids mentioned above have been at Hearts through probably our darkest time both on and off the park, either making it thru a shot academy system and playing through admin, or being part of the last couple of years of a) a total academy rebuild and/or b) possibly our worst and most poorly coached 1st team in my lifetime I feel like the club is broadly on track and I'm very confident our ids will be a big part of the next 10 years of being a solid top 4 team in the Prem. That's as much supposition as anything but that's my gut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sertse Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 52 minutes ago, kimosavi said: How many have made us a profit? Is that a joke? They're young, perspective players. The whole idea is they get loaned until they're good enough to break into the first team OR if they aren't good enough they get sold to smaller teams. Everyone listed is still developing, we won't make money from them for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambonian Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 It's all very well the Walsall manager coming out and spewing stuff but has there been anything said by Adebayo himself? Does he want to traipse all the way up to Edinburgh or is he more interested in looking for a club in his own country? I don't think it's a done deal yet as to him not coming to Hearts, i think there will still be some negotiations to be done. I understand his manager might want to keep him and head on into a potential promotion race but at the end of the day, Adebayo will ultimately make the decision himself. Whether it's that he wants out now, been offered to sign a pre-contract or is hoping an English club comes in for him, no-one knows. If he arrives, great. If not...meh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sertse Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Jean Louis Valois said: Every Hearts supporter want's Cochrane to come back and do well, but it's not going to happen. He is miles away from getting into our first team. It would be the best thing for him to move on from Hearts this summer. He should be playing this season. Sink or swim. Would be the best test of if he has it with minimal risk because we're not only far ahead, we're against way smaller teams and there's enough experienced players to carry us through. The talk of bringing him back next season seems non sensical considering he's been playing at a much lower level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, kimosavi said: Whole point of the academy was to bring youth through, play them in 1st team then sell for a profit. That’s just the best case scenario though, the other side is that the academy provides cover for the starting 11 and saves us from forking out on more expensive players. It’s no fault of the academy that we’ve made bad decisions on players like damour that should have been in the 1st 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Sertse said: He should be playing this season. Sink or swim. Would be the best test of if he has it with minimal risk because we're not only far ahead, we're against way smaller teams and there's enough experienced players to carry us through. The talk of bringing him back next season seems non sensical considering he's been playing at a much lower level. I thought similar of Connor Smith tbh. Had hoped to see him stay and play. My guess/hope is that because at least part of Cochranes issue has been physical/growing, the plan is simply to get him as many minutes as possible this season to help with that. Best will in the world, he'll get more time on the pitch, and maybe even a rougher time, at Montrose. What's the training situ with our loanees? Guessing due to bubbles, they can't train with Hearts full time and their loan clubs part time as wld usually be the case...???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambonian Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Thing for me with Cochrane is that he's becoming just another statistic of youth players that haven't proved good enough. He still has time on his side but we don't want to be in the same situation with him as we were with Zanatta. I lost faith in him two years before he eventually moved on. With Cochrane, it's been like that for the last year. He doesn't get in a struggling Hearts team in the Prem and now not getting any chances in the Champ. That won't do his confidence any good if he's not getting a chance. Sounds ominous to me. Zanatta hung around for years, went out on loan and ultimately he wasn't going to cut it at Hearts. We still have a fairly large squad, we need to trim it back so we can afford a couple of decent players as well as making space for the next batch of youngsters to sink or swim. Quality not quantity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Thought I'd jumped on the wrong thread. Its not the Academy after all. Wonder if matchday might bring some sort of news on movement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnking123 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 This thread has went to shit again I see 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentjambo Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, johnking123 said: This thread has went to shit again I see 😄 Right John. Give us the low down please. You’re an ITK kinda guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyespana Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 11 hours ago, OTT said: Not long enough. He'll come good next season and we'll have an awkward year of him running his contract down the following year. Should be 3/4 years. On paper that sounds good but what happens if the laddie get a serious injury you will be moaning that his deal was two long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav M Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, Agentjambo said: maybe why we've supposedly offered the figures reported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboscanbevicius Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Agentjambo said: May work in our favour. Says most of the fee would be due to Fulham. But if we buy him now the fee goes to Walsall. So they may have an incentive to deal this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Jambo Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, Agentjambo said: Hypothetically, what happens if no club wants/can afford to pay a development fee and he doesn’t want to extend with his current club? Can development feed be wavered or does he just float about waiting for the time to expire? Not a question I expect anyone to answer, not a likely scenario, just pondering out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil D. Corners Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Agentjambo said: If the fee 150k is true it sounds like hearts knew about this rule. IIRC the rule only come in place when the team has offered the player a new deal on same or better terms. So I understand why Walsall are offering him a deal. ultimately I think this rule will help us long term with other players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Gav M said: maybe why we've supposedly offered the figures reported I'd say that is the reason. Walsall can take their chances at a tribunal and might not even get as much as we've offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said: It's nearly always the player's agent who leaks stories to the press. Seems most obvious when new deal being negotiated. Daryll Clarke is obviously intellectually challenged. Anyone who knows anything about the way these things work, know that the agent 90% of the time is responsible for "leaking" to the press, with the exception, of course, of the Uglies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Not sure about paying a fee for a guy who's never scored goals above league 2 level before, and he's hardly been prolific at that level either. Would prefer to loan someone until the end of the season and have a look at some better options in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 If the government's loan terms are good we should take the option then buy a player for about £1m the week after. Just for the reaction of other clubs. Or take the loan and donate it t the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry hippo Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 20 minutes ago, Jamboscanbevicius said: May work in our favour. Says most of the fee would be due to Fulham. But if we buy him now the fee goes to Walsall. So they may have an incentive to deal this month. Maybe I read it wrong but I thought Fulham would still be entitled to the same amount whether it was now or in summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Zen Jambo said: Hypothetically, what happens if no club wants/can afford to pay a development fee and he doesn’t want to extend with his current club? Can development feed be wavered or does he just float about waiting for the time to expire? Not a question I expect anyone to answer, not a likely scenario, just pondering out loud. I am sure someone would have thought of that (the authorities are always on the ball !!)......however on the face of it a player would have a very good case for compensation should it go to court Perhaps why the rules were written as they were previously to avoid this issue There must have been similar circumstances though perhaps not applying to the age of 23 before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Black Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 13 hours ago, JTJ said: Elijah has obviously not accepted the Walsall offer. The manager's comments are maybe to try to stir up an auction so the club get more money. A pre-contract would stop that. What I don't understand is that if the player can sign a pre-contract with us, why are we bothering approaching the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said: Not sure about paying a fee for a guy who's never scored goals above league 2 level before, and he's hardly been prolific at that level either. Would prefer to loan someone until the end of the season and have a look at some better options in the summer. I am not sure that our interest is purely down to the numbert of goals he will score in our league although that is a bonus if he does. My thougths are that he is an option that will take probably two defenders away leaving more space for Boyce to score which we know he can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, wavydavy said: I am not sure that our interest is purely down to the numbert of goals he will score in our league although that is a bonus if he does. My thougths are that he is an option that will take probably two defenders away leaving more space for Boyce to score which we know he can do. good post Davy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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