January transfer window ( Now closed )

[Batistuta87]

3 minutes ago, fast_blood said:

Ah well, Zanata has already proven himself to be poor anyway so no loss. 

 

Aye I'm not saying he'd have made a huge difference lol. Just questioning the decision to release him and keep arguably poorer players. 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Batistuta87

[Ari Gold]

3 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Really? We'd have Gordon, Smith, Souttar (likely) Findlay, Kingsley, GMS, Walker, Irving, Boyce, Gnaulliette making up the bulk of our senior players, I think its a great time to bump up Connor Smith, Chris Hamilton, Cammy Logan, Scott McGill.

 

We do need to make one or two signings, but I'd like to see a heavier emphasis on youth next season. I think it will stand us in very good stead over the seasons to come. 

Heavily relying on youth suggests not using experienced first team players which is what you said. Adding 4 younf players to the squad is hardly "heavily relying on youth". I have no problem with promoting some of the youngsters to the squad. 

 

Im sure the young players will get game time. If they are good enough. See Irving as an example. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Ari Gold

[lou]

51 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Definitely not "one that got away", but that's more than Smith for example has done, and might have been a better option than some that we've kept... 

Zanatta played 15 times, Connor Smith has 4 appearances,.Smith handled himself very well in a derby at Easter Road and impressed at Parkhead

[scottg71]

Has this place gone mad? Dario Zanatta 😆

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

Heavily relying on youth suggests not using experienced first team players. 

 

Im sure the young players will get game time. If they are good enough. See Irving as an example. 

 

Ah, fair enough, I'm advocating reducing the amount of journeyman types we sign and focusing more in leaning on the academy whilst going for more on quality than quantity in the transfer market. Frankly, a player like Campbell at Motherwell, I think he's worth 3 players wages, we had Lee, Bozanic and Damour on our books last season (Lee out on loan fair enough), he is absolutely worth the 3 of them. I think by being much choosier on who we go for and really making sure they are a player that will add something special to the team rather than just 'doing a job' or being a speculative punt would be a good idea. 

 

Speaking strictly on talent, I think Cochrane, McDonald, Irving, Smith are all more talented players than your Lee's Bozanics and Damours. Going for a leaner squad beefed up with young talent I think makes a lot of sense. It may mean injuries could hit us harder, but if the academy is doing its job correctly those times will be moments our young talent prove they have something, much in the way of Gary Naysmith for example, or Walker, Holt, King, Paterson, Nicholson & Carrick did in 2013. 

 

I think the club needs to be a lot braver with its integration of the academy with the first team.

[Batistuta87]

35 minutes ago, scottg71 said:

Has this place gone mad? Dario Zanatta 😆

FFS, read the thread. I'm not saying I want him back, literally all I'm saying is that I think he's better than Conor Smith! 

[johnthomas]

38 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Ah, fair enough, I'm advocating reducing the amount of journeyman types we sign and focusing more in leaning on the academy whilst going for more on quality than quantity in the transfer market. Frankly, a player like Campbell at Motherwell, I think he's worth 3 players wages, we had Lee, Bozanic and Damour on our books last season (Lee out on loan fair enough), he is absolutely worth the 3 of them. I think by being much choosier on who we go for and really making sure they are a player that will add something special to the team rather than just 'doing a job' or being a speculative punt would be a good idea. 

 

Speaking strictly on talent, I think Cochrane, McDonald, Irving, Smith are all more talented players than your Lee's Bozanics and Damours. Going for a leaner squad beefed up with young talent I think makes a lot of sense. It may mean injuries could hit us harder, but if the academy is doing its job correctly those times will be moments our young talent prove they have something, much in the way of Gary Naysmith for example, or Walker, Holt, King, Paterson, Nicholson & Carrick did in 2013. 

 

I think the club needs to be a lot braver with its integration of the academy with the first team.

I think most teams (guaranteed to be corrected here) have introduced loads of kids when they had no choice . Maybe Man U were the exception ?

Yes we would need to be more brave but at what cost !

Miss out on promotion , struggle in the premier League ?

Not criticising Nielson but he is a pragmatist

[GinRummy]

44 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Ah, fair enough, I'm advocating reducing the amount of journeyman types we sign and focusing more in leaning on the academy whilst going for more on quality than quantity in the transfer market. Frankly, a player like Campbell at Motherwell, I think he's worth 3 players wages, we had Lee, Bozanic and Damour on our books last season (Lee out on loan fair enough), he is absolutely worth the 3 of them. I think by being much choosier on who we go for and really making sure they are a player that will add something special to the team rather than just 'doing a job' or being a speculative punt would be a good idea. 

 

Speaking strictly on talent, I think Cochrane, McDonald, Irving, Smith are all more talented players than your Lee's Bozanics and Damours. Going for a leaner squad beefed up with young talent I think makes a lot of sense. It may mean injuries could hit us harder, but if the academy is doing its job correctly those times will be moments our young talent prove they have something, much in the way of Gary Naysmith for example, or Walker, Holt, King, Paterson, Nicholson & Carrick did in 2013. 

 

I think the club needs to be a lot braver with its integration of the academy with the first team.

I absolutely agree regarding bringing in more quality than quantity. Having a huge squad of average players is pointless. 
 

Where I disagree a bit is that we ‘should lean more on the academy’. If the players aren’t good enough to be in the first team then they shouldn’t be in the first team. The idea that all they need is a run of games just doesn’t cut it with me. When they start costing us points the fans will soon make their feelings known as well. Tbh I think you are a bit idealistic about the whole thing. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by GinRummy

[The Hogfather]

12 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

FFS, read the thread. I'm not saying I want him back, literally all I'm saying is that I think he's better than Conor Smith! 

 

Based on what?

[daveyhmfc]

Car Crash of a thread! 

[Ari Gold]

14 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

FFS, read the thread. I'm not saying I want him back, literally all I'm saying is that I think he's better than Conor Smith! 

It's a bit of a strange comparison as one is 4 years older than the other. It's not as if we released Zanatta to keep Smith. 

[lou]

21 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

FFS, read the thread. I'm not saying I want him back, literally all I'm saying is that I think he's better than Conor Smith! 

How can you possibly judge a 17 year old on 4 games? Personally I have seen more from him in those games than I ever saw from Zanatta

[Swanny17]

Campbell will not be at Hearts next season. 

[OTT]

6 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I absolutely agree regarding bringing in more quality than quantity. Having a huge squad of average players is pointless. 
 

Where I disagree a bit is that we ‘should lean more on the academy’. If the players aren’t good enough to be in the first team then they shouldn’t be in the first team. The idea that all they need is a run of games just doesn’t cut it with me. When they start costing us points the fans will soon make their feelings known as well. Tbh I think you are a bit idealistic about the whole thing. 

 

I can understand how it might seem a bit 'in an ideal world', but there's no reason why we shouldn't be striving to achieve that. I would think committing more heavily to youth development going forward would develop our competency in this area - i.e spotting talent better, knowing how to manage young players to get the best out of them, when to drop them, how to keep them, etc. I'm not saying overnight we should become the Scottish Ajax or something. I do think its a perfectly attainable and achievable goal to become the best club in Scotland to be at for youth development though. The standard isn't exactly high, most clubs have serious financial constraints and the OF are too interested in outspending each other. Its a real opportunity to take advantage of IMO. There is a reason Hickey, Gilmour, Hepburn even McCrorie and countless others look to leave the OF to try their hand elsewhere despite being teenagers. They're not recognising their young talent and I think with a bit of effort more lads could be convinced that following Hickey's lead is a good move which could only be a good thing for us. 

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I can understand how it might seem a bit 'in an ideal world', but there's no reason why we shouldn't be striving to achieve that. I would think committing more heavily to youth development going forward would develop our competency in this area - i.e spotting talent better, knowing how to manage young players to get the best out of them, when to drop them, how to keep them, etc. I'm not saying overnight we should become the Scottish Ajax or something. I do think its a perfectly attainable and achievable goal to become the best club in Scotland to be at for youth development though. The standard isn't exactly high, most clubs have serious financial constraints and the OF are too interested in outspending each other. Its a real opportunity to take advantage of IMO. There is a reason Hickey, Gilmour, Hepburn even McCrorie and countless others look to leave the OF to try their hand elsewhere despite being teenagers. They're not recognising their young talent and I think with a bit of effort more lads could be convinced that following Hickey's lead is a good move which could only be a good thing for us. 

Clearly something you’re quite passionate about and it would be great to develop more youths into first team players. Hopefully the club does more to bring the best young talent to us. I think with a slimmed down squad (which RN has said he favours) more young guys are bound to get a chance. 

[Batistuta87]

14 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

Based on what?

Err... Based on seeing both of them play for Hearts and thinking one was better than the other?? It's not difficult. 

 

11 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

It's a bit of a strange comparison as one is 4 years older than the other. It's not as if we released Zanatta to keep Smith. 

Have acknowledged this twice now, but its not a strange comparison because they both play the same sort positions and while they aren't the same age, they're similar ages in that they are both "young players" (defined as "23 or under"). 

 

4 minutes ago, lou said:

How can you possibly judge a 17 year old on 4 games? Personally I have seen more from him in those games than I ever saw from Zanatta

He's 19, and I've seen him play 4 times for the first team, and probably 10 or so for the Reserves in games that he didn't stand out in, but guys like MacDonald, Henderson, Morrison, Keena and Makovora did. 

 

[fast_blood]

1 hour ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Aye I'm not saying he'd have made a huge difference lol. Just questioning the decision to release him and keep arguably poorer players. 

 

I guess the fact remains that we don't see as much as the coaching staff. And it's also about opinions. I don't think we've kept the poorer players in all honesty. None of the examples other than possibly petkov (couple of years older than Hamilton) and godhino have gone on to better things. 

[Gav M]

23 minutes ago, Swanny17 said:

Campbell will not be at Hearts next season. 

heading else where?

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, scottg71 said:

Has this place gone mad? Dario Zanatta 😆

Desperate times. 😁

[jr ewing]

5 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Err... Based on seeing both of them play for Hearts and thinking one was better than the other?? It's not difficult. 

 

Have acknowledged this twice now, but its not a strange comparison because they both play the same sort positions and while they aren't the same age, they're similar ages in that they are both "young players" (defined as "23 or under"). 

 

He's 19, and I've seen him play 4 times for the first team, and probably 10 or so for the Reserves in games that he didn't stand out in, but guys like MacDonald, Henderson, Morrison, Keena and Makovora did. 

 

All about standards I guess. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Zannatta on one wing, Moore on the other. 

Robinson in midfield supplying the ammunition. 

 

[lou]

11 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Err... Based on seeing both of them play for Hearts and thinking one was better than the other?? It's not difficult. 

 

Have acknowledged this twice now, but its not a strange comparison because they both play the same sort positions and while they aren't the same age, they're similar ages in that they are both "young players" (defined as "23 or under"). 

 

He's 19, and I've seen him play 4 times for the first team, and probably 10 or so for the Reserves in games that he didn't stand out in, but guys like MacDonald, Henderson, Morrison, Keena and Makovora did. 

 

He was 17 when he played for the first team

[Ari Gold]

6 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Err... Based on seeing both of them play for Hearts and thinking one was better than the other?? It's not difficult. 

 

Have acknowledged this twice now, but its not a strange comparison because they both play the same sort positions and while they aren't the same age, they're similar ages in that they are both "young players" (defined as "23 or under"). 

 

He's 19, and I've seen him play 4 times for the first team, and probably 10 or so for the Reserves in games that he didn't stand out in, but guys like MacDonald, Henderson, Morrison, Keena and Makovora did. 

 

I'd say 4 years is a big gap in ages when it comes to footballers tbh. 

[jambonian]

2 hours ago, fast_blood said:

This. Folk on here seemed to be excited about Roberts at the time. No idea why he's looked so disinterested in the few games he's played. 

Be interesting to see how he gets on at Motherwell during his loan. I saw a bit of him over the weekend and he was pretty lively for them from what i saw. I don't know what contract Roberts is on but he could be useful as a makeweight for a deal for Campbell IF Hearts have any interest or ambition. Player plus cash sort of thing. Depends on how he does there. Am keeping a keen eye on Motherwell from now until the end of the season.

[Swanny17]

12 minutes ago, Gav M said:

heading else where?

A friend of a friend knows him and reckons he’s off down south.  Besides, I don’t think we could afford the development fee. 

[lou]

6 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

I'd say 4 years is a big gap in ages when it comes to footballers tbh. 

And the fact that one is a midfielder and the other a forward

[Pans Jambo]

52 minutes ago, daveyhmfc said:

Car Crash of a thread! 

Needs shut down!

 

Past it's "best before" date now.

[Le Chat]

1 hour ago, daveyhmfc said:

Car Crash of a thread! 

 

Aren't they all nowadays?

[Abiola Dauda]

17 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

Zannatta on one wing, Moore on the other. 

Robinson in midfield supplying the ammunition. 

 

Even though all of those players are below Hearts' standard you can just imagine them beating us in a St Mirren (or some other diddy) team. 

 

I think there are some players that are decent but can't handle the weight of expectation at Hearts.  We are a very impatient fan base and some players react well to that and others lose confidence and fail to perform. 

 

Also having a bigger squad that most premiership sides means that if a player goes for 4/5 games in poor form they are out the team and struggle to get back in.  At other teams there won't be someone to replace them so they will keep playing until they find form.  Particularly strikers. A striker thay scores 10-15 goals a season will definitely on occasion go 4-5 games at a time without scoring. That's why players like John Sutton failed. Say he would score once every 270 minutes of football or so but is in and out the team, it is very difficult to get up to double digits for the season.  He was also just fairly pish. 

[Stu_HMFC]

35 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

Zannatta on one wing, Moore on the other. 

Robinson in midfield supplying the ammunition. 

 

And Aidan Keena up top 😂

[jambonian]

4 hours ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

 

Not saying he won't be in Robbie's thoughts or that he's pish or anything - he looks OK - but I think Zanata offered a bit more from an attacking sense and had the confidence to run at players to try to take them on. I quite liked him tbh. 

 

 

Zanatta had been at the club for too long. A few different loan moves and every time he came back he wasn't thought of as anywhere near a regular starter. Sometimes you just have to let a player go for the club and the players own sake. Zanatta looked....ok a few years ago but.... how long do you keep extending/offering new contracts to players you're not going to play regularly? There has to be a cut-off. I believe Brandon is now getting into that category as well. Been here a few years now and he won't replace Smith if he was to move on. Neilson himself said he's looking for a right-back. If i'm Brandon and i hear this,  i have to think of getting away from Hearts to get regular games. Moore, Cochrane and probably one or two others need to find another club if they want to try and make it at top level football as well. The longer all these guys hang around Hearts the less chance they'll get to improve so their careers will head only one way, maybe not even full-time football but part-time at an Alloa or Arbroath if they're not careful.

[Zaba]

Dario Zanatta is dreadful, and that’s a fact.

 

Connor Smith will have a far better career than Zanatta, you can take that to the bank.  

[TheBigO]

15 minutes ago, Zaba said:

Dario Zanatta is dreadful, and that’s a fact.

 

Connor Smith will have a far better career than Zanatta, you can take that to the bank.  

At the point we let Zanatta go, Smith was like 16 or 17 and hotly tipped - Scotland captain at his age group I seem to remember

 

It's possibly the worst "like for like", "replace in the squad" type comparison in the history of humanity.

 

I quite liked Dario, and maybe he could've had a better run of games with us.  Seemed to do OK then disappear, but was never going to be answer.  Connor Smith has always been very hotly rated.  Perhaps fair to say he may have stalled a little and not had the gametime we'd have hoped in the last 2 years, but then he's not alone especially in covid times

[Batistuta87]

Just now, TheBigO said:

At the point we let Zanatta go, Smith was like 16 or 17 and hotly tipped - Scotland captain at his age group I seem to remember

 

It's possibly the worst "like for like", "replace in the squad" type comparison in the history of humanity.

 

I quite liked Dario, and maybe he could've had a better run of games with us.  Seemed to do OK then disappear, but was never going to be answer.  Connor Smith has always been very hotly rated.  Perhaps fair to say he may have stalled a little and not had the gametime we'd have hoped in the last 2 years, but then he's not alone especially in covid times

 

 

Sorry but its far from the worst comparison. They were both young players under the age of 23 and were in direct competition with one another for the same position in the U23/Reserves side or for a move up to the first team until DZ left. Its not like I'm comparing Aidy White to Uche Ikpeazu! 

 

[TheBigO]

8 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

 

Sorry but its far from the worst comparison. They were both young players under the age of 23 and were in direct competition with one another for the same position in the U23/Reserves side or for a move up to the first team until DZ left. Its not like I'm comparing Aidy White to Uche Ikpeazu! 

 

You are comparing a guy who'd had various chances in the team plus a couple of loan spells at that time and was at "crunch" age for making it with us, to a lad who was right at the start of his journey and was only potential at that point. Happens his potential was big, but even that is besides the point.

 

I don't disagree with the thrust of what you're getting at (poor contingency planning), but your examples are off imo. That's all.

[The Hogfather]

1 hour ago, Batistuta87 said:

Err... Based on seeing both of them play for Hearts and thinking one was better than the other?? It's not difficult. 

You didn’t watch much of Zanatta at Hearts if you think he did enough to still be at the club. 

[jr ewing]

Never understood the obsession with developing our own players. 

[Batistuta87]

30 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

You didn’t watch much of Zanatta at Hearts if you think he did enough to still be at the club. 

FFS no again. At no point have I said this. Stop putting words in my mouth without reading everything I've said.  

Done with this conversation lol.

This place sometimes....... 

 

[Rick Sanchez]

Gallagher injured or Celtic bound? If I was Motherwell I'd be triggering the extension.

[The Hogfather]

6 hours ago, Batistuta87 said:

Possibly. I think for the sake of getting through this season, Zanatta would have been the more useful of the two since he could play AM/R/L/C and had a bit of pace. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Just questioning the decision to release him and keep arguably poorer players. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

FFS no again. At no point have I said this. Stop putting words in my mouth without reading everything I've said.  

Done with this conversation lol.

This place sometimes....... 

 

 

I mean, you literally did suggest you thought he should still be here. So...

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, Stu_HMFC said:

And Aidan Keena up top 😂

 

[OTT]

15 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

Gallagher injured or Celtic bound? If I was Motherwell I'd be triggering the extension.

 

Odd how he gets within 1 game of triggering that extension and suddenly he's getting injuries. 

[Alex Kintner]

4 hours ago, Batistuta87 said:

FFS, read the thread. I'm not saying I want him back, literally all I'm saying is that I think he's better than Conor Smith! 

[Batistuta87]

48 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

 

 

I mean, you literally did suggest you thought he should still be here. So...

I did not LITERALLY say "he should still be here"... I simply questioned the decision to release him over Smith (thinking he was part of the relegation clear out which I have acknowledged that I was mistaken and that he wasn't) and simply wondered if he would have added more to the team than Smith has up until now. 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Batistuta87

[Batistuta87]

10 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

I don't understand why people keep saying they're not comparable. Both under 23, competing for the same position in the team 🤷🏻

[The Hogfather]

4 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

I did not LITERALLY say "he should still be here"... I simply questioned the decision to release him over Smith (thinking he was part of the relegation clear out which I have acknowledged that I was mistaken and that he wasn't) and simply wondered if he would have added more to the team than Smith has up until now. 

 

 

And the answer to that question was/is no. He offered next to nothing in the game he did feature, while Smith had a very positive performance in the 1-1 draw at Easter Road in 2019 and at Parkhead in the final game of the season. Smith will hopefully get his chance, Zanatta had his.

[Batistuta87]

Just now, Nunya Business said:

 

And the answer to that question was/is no. He offered next to nothing in the game he did feature, while Smith had a very positive performance in the 1-1 draw at Easter Road in 2019 and at Parkhead in the final game of the season. Smith will hopefully get his chance, Zanatta had his.

Haha, OK. 

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Batistuta87 said:

I don't understand why people keep saying they're not comparable. Both under 23, competing for the same position in the team 🤷🏻

One’s a 23yo striker/winger. The other is a 19yo central midfielder. 

🤔

 

 

[The Hogfather]

Just now, Batistuta87 said:

Haha, OK. 

 

I hope you're laughing at you trying to compare a winger in his twenties and a teenage central midfielder. Everyone else is.

[Stu_HMFC]

1 hour ago, Rick Sanchez said:

Gallagher injured or Celtic bound? If I was Motherwell I'd be triggering the extension.

Last I heard he was looking for a move to Dundee United and they were willing to pay his wage he lives in Dundee . 
 

Don’t think he would be good enough for Celtic probably a big pay day for him coming into his 30s but would he play every week I don’t think so . The lad looks like he wants to play .