**** Official Premiership Hickey Thread ( merged ) ****

[ShedBoy]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

So it's all about the money to you, not about the advancement and fulfilment of the career of someone who we helped develop?

As a co-owner of the best football club in the world, then yes, it’s about money. Free bar at Hogmanay in 2025 when we’re (hopefully) allowed out. Happy New Year 👍🏻

[redjambo]

6 minutes ago, ShedBoy said:

As a co-owner of the best football club in the world, then yes, it’s about money. Free bar at Hogmanay in 2025 when we’re (hopefully) allowed out. Happy New Year 👍🏻

 

Likewise. 

[AlphonseCapone]

1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

If Man City want to sign him (big IF) then he is Man City level.

Not sure who plays LB fir MC  they lost Mendy to HMP.

 

I remember plenty saying the same of Marez, he is still there 4 or 5 years on.

If Pep wants him, he would believe in himself enough to make it.

 

Not sure I agree with that logic, because that means Ben Woodburn is Liverpool quality and that's simply not true, with no offense intended towards Ben.

 

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

Why not? Who thought Robertson would be hailed as the best left back in the world when Liverpool signed him from Hull?

Hickey's got real quality, the type that stands a chance of shining when surrounded by top class players.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, just that I don't think so at this stage. I could obviously be wrong but Andy Robertson is an exception, not a rule. 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, just that I don't think so at this stage. I could obviously be wrong but Andy Robertson is an exception, not a rule. 

 

I get that, and I suppose what I'm really saying isn't that he is at that level, but that with the natural ability he has it's not that outrageous to think he could be.

[AlphonseCapone]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I get that, and I suppose what I'm really saying isn't that he is at that level, but that with the natural ability he has it's not that outrageous to think he could be.

 

Well I hope he does pull it off. Always pleased to see a young Scottish player be brave and head abroad and do well. 

[Cruyff]

We want him to move to England because a Man City would buy him outright.

 

If he moves to another club in Italy they'll probably dodge the sell on fee by loaning him to AC Milan for 10million per season  then he joins on a free transfer at the end of his contract such is the nature of Italian football.

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 hours ago, Tazio said:

Perfectly setting up a season’s loan at Celtic. 

Can't see any reason for that.

[Tommy Brown]

1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Not sure I agree with that logic, because that means Ben Woodburn is Liverpool quality and that's simply not true, with no offense intended towards Ben.

 

Signed as a kid as one of the best of his age group. Signed on a hunch as you can never know how someone matures or progresses.

He's not a good analogy against my statement.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

We want him to move to England because a Man City would buy him outright.

 

If he moves to another club in Italy they'll probably dodge the sell on fee by loaning him to AC Milan for 10million per season  then he joins on a free transfer at the end of his contract such is the nature of Italian football.

 

My money would be on Newcastle going for him. They have a very leaky, aging and generally shite defence. And unlimited funds to fix it. They'll be looking for experienced mid-20s internationalists but also the best young talent. Hickey has his head screwed on. He'll make sure he goes somewhere where he has the best chance of being first choice.

Edited December 28, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[AlphonseCapone]

1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

Signed as a kid as one of the best of his age group. Signed on a hunch as you can never know how someone matures or progresses.

He's not a good analogy against my statement.

 

Isn't he exactly a good point in case though. They're only signing potential and it's yet to be determined if he's Man City class, and like Woodburn could prove not to be. 

 

Anyway, I wish him all the best so hope he proves good enough for any team. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by AlphonseCapone

[Guest ToqueJambo]

9 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Isn't he exactly a good point in case though. They're only signing potential and it's yet to be determined if he's Man City class, and like Woodburn could prove not to be. 

 

Anyway, I wish him all the best so hope he proves good enough for any team. 

 

Hickey skipped the Queens Park stage Robertson went through - spending ages 16 to 19 playing for Hearts and Bologna. At Hickey's age now, Andy Robertson was only just moving from QP to D Utd.

 

Even before establishing himself at Bologna Hickey was wanted by Bayern and rumoured to be attracting City and others in England. They'll absolutely still be tracking him, even more so now that he's established himself at a much higher level - an elite league, basically the level he would be playing at if he signed fore Bayern, City or any other team at that level. He's beyond just "potential" now IMO.

 

The comparisons have to be with established teenagers in elite leagues now, not promising players on loan etc.

Edited December 28, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Tommy Brown]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Hickey skipped the Queens Park stage Robertson went through - spending ages 16 to 19 playing for Hearts and Bologna. At Hickey's age now, Andy Robertson was only just moving from QP to D Utd.

 

Even before establishing himself at Bologna Hickey was wanted by Bayern and rumoured to be attracting City and others in England. They'll absolutely still be tracking him, even more so now that he's established himself at a much higher level - an elite league, basically the level he would be playing at if he signed fore Bayern, City or any other team at that level. He's beyond just "potential" now IMO.

 

The comparisons have to be with established teenagers in elite leagues now, not promising players on loan etc.

Good post

[davemclaren]

3 hours ago, GavK1012 said:

 

No it wasn't....some random folk on JKB tried to debate and discuss the topic, of that to which they have absolutely no idea and some folk took that to be 'confirmed' 

I was there when the. ‘Six figure sum ‘ quote was made. There was no mention of whether it was a percentage or whatever. I took it to mean a percentage which would net us a six figure sum. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Can we please never mention Doig and Hickey in the same breath again. It's embarrassing. Nothing against Doig, but unless he dramatically improves he's nothing more than the new Lewis Stevenson right now.

Edited December 28, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Cruyff]

41 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

My money would be on Newcastle going for him. They have a very leaky, aging and generally shite defence. And unlimited funds to fix it. They'll be looking for experienced mid-20s internationalists but also the best young talent. Hickey has his head screwed on. He'll make sure he goes somewhere where he has the best chance of being first choice.

I don't care where he ends up as long as we make money.

[CostaJambo]

3 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I was there when the. ‘Six figure sum ‘ quote was made. There was no mention of whether it was a percentage or whatever. I took it to mean a percentage which would net us a six figure sum. 

Thanks for confirming Dave, no danger it will be a lump sum, doesn't make sense at all.

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Hickey skipped the Queens Park stage Robertson went through - spending ages 16 to 19 playing for Hearts and Bologna. At Hickey's age now, Andy Robertson was only just moving from QP to D Utd.

 

Even before establishing himself at Bologna Hickey was wanted by Bayern and rumoured to be attracting City and others in England. They'll absolutely still be tracking him, even more so now that he's established himself at a much higher level - an elite league, basically the level he would be playing at if he signed fore Bayern, City or any other team at that level. He's beyond just "potential" now IMO.

 

The comparisons have to be with established teenagers in elite leagues now, not promising players on loan etc.

 

 

Yip. 

 

If he was a young Spanish chap with a fancy name playing in Italy or Spain for a club of Bolognas status ridiculous figures of £20m plus would be getting chucked about and no one would question it, but because he's not got an exotic name and Scottish, he can't be very good. 

 

The lad is gravy. 

[Section Q]

21 hours ago, kila said:

 

It's all about the money when it comes to ex players

 

Hopefully the six figure sum is just the minimum we'd get in any scenario and there is also a percentage for when it exceeds that sum

 

I think it will be a percentage rather than a fixed amount as someone else said. I would imagine Celtic are no longer entitled to anything after their share of the initial price we got for selling him to Bologna. Anyone really know....?

[Kiwidoug]

If he keeps up this form he's got £50m written all over him.  His huge advantage is that he won't be considered an unknown quantity from the Scottish league.  He's playing with the big boys and excelling.

[Bindy Badgy]

5 hours ago, Section Q said:

I think it will be a percentage rather than a fixed amount as someone else said. I would imagine Celtic are no longer entitled to anything after their share of the initial price we got for selling him to Bologna. Anyone really know....?

 

Based on my extensive Football Manager experience of how sell on clauses work, this is correct.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Bindy Badgy

[Bazzas right boot]

5 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

If he keeps up this form he's got £50m written all over him.  His huge advantage is that he won't be considered an unknown quantity from the Scottish league.  He's playing with the big boys and excelling.

 

 

The only thing that will weaken his price is his contract value and length. 

 

I wouldn't be suprised if he signs a new contract with Bologna soon that has a big release fee, Likley £20m plus then within a year he moves to another team for that amount. 

 

Folk saying he's not man City class when Bayern wanted him last time is bizzare. 

 

He'll have every big club In the world keeping tabs on him. 

 

One thing that will help Any fee is that he's a left footer, anyone that plays left side has their value doubled v their right sided counterparts as they are rare. 

 

Also, indirectly clubs will have noticed Robertson and Tierney perform so a Scottish lb might carry less of a risk and and shock factor in terms of a large transfer fee than it did 5 or 10 years ago. 

 

 

 

 

[King prawn]

32 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

The only thing that will weaken his price is his contract value and length. 

 

I wouldn't be suprised if he signs a new contract with Bologna soon that has a big release fee, Likley £20m plus then within a year he moves to another team for that amount. 

 

Folk saying he's not man City class when Bayern wanted him last time is bizzare. 

 

He'll have every big club In the world keeping tabs on him. 

 

One thing that will help Any fee is that he's a left footer, anyone that plays left side has their value doubled v their right sided counterparts as they are rare. 

 

Also, indirectly clubs will have noticed Robertson and Tierney perform so a Scottish lb might carry less of a risk and and shock factor in terms of a large transfer fee than it did 5 or 10 years ago. 

 

 

 

 

Who has scored 3 of his 4 goals with his right foot

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Who has scored 3 of his 4 goals with his right foot

 

Yeah, 2 footed is such a rare thing. 

 

 

[Boyces beard]

22 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Yeah, 2 footed is such a rare thing. 

 

 

It really is, you think the least you would expect from a professional football player is that they can make a 20 yard pass with there bad foot. There are a lot of players who are one footed in the modern game, you would think they would at least work on there bad foot to make it better.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Boyces beard

[Fozzyonthefence]

16 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

I get that, and I suppose what I'm really saying isn't that he is at that level, but that with the natural ability he has it's not that outrageous to think he could be.

He’s at a higher level than Andy Robertson was at 19.

[Baxfee]

I really hope we’ve got a minimum 10% sell on fee. Getting a couple of million now, added to the initial selling to Bologna fee, would make the whole thing a good deal. Would’ve loved £20m direct to us but that was never going to happen! 

[Unknown user]

8 hours ago, Section Q said:

I think it will be a percentage rather than a fixed amount as someone else said. I would imagine Celtic are no longer entitled to anything after their share of the initial price we got for selling him to Bologna. Anyone really know....?

 

No one really knows but I'd be stunned if Celtic weren't due a percentage of every single penny we get for Hickey.

They've been involved in transfers for over a century, how could their contract lawyers possibly miss that when us roasters on jkb have picked up on it?

[Bongo 1874]

Aston Villa interested. 

[Sertse]

There's rumours he's going to Man City which is pretty funny considering 2 years ago there was rumours he was going to Man City directly from us. Can see it happening though, he's attracting a lot of attention. Let's hope it's a 20% sell on fee!

[Ibrahim Tall]

For his own good/Scotland’s, hopefully he stays another year at Bologna. Isn’t many better defenders to learn from than Mihajlovic and playing every week at that level seems to be bringing him on leaps and bounds. Be sad to see him stagnate from being on the bench every week or punted on loan repeatedly at City or Chelsea or sign for some mediocre EPL team.

Milan could be a good option though, Maldini apparently rates him and Hernandez is probably off now or in the summer.

[Mikey1874]

Just 3 and half years before he can play for Italy.

[Bull's-eye]

With the scouting networks at such an advanced elite level in the EPL, every single player in Serie A and the other decent leagues will be on their radar.

 

I reckon he'll get a move to the big bucks and he's done it the decent way.

 

Always seems more attractive to me to go abroad rather than slog it out in the English Championship.

[Francis Albert]

20 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Fair enough. We'll have to disagree on that then. I just see all the squabbling on the Serie Hickey thread about how much we would get, and I would hate to think that we are so hard up that it matters that much to us. The talk about money often drowns out the talk about how well he is doing over there.

 

Football the beautiful game, or football the means of making money? There may be some who are hypocritical when they look at the major clubs and organisations and accuse them of just being interested in the dosh, when they then want us to do exactly the same but just at a lower level.

Agree with you. Obviously a windfall from the resale would be welcome but it is not going to be transformative for Hearts. It will not take us to a new level. If the money is spent wisely (always a big if) it might just marginally sttengthen our position as the closest to the OF but that is about it.

I have a lot of admiration for Hickey and the way he has grabbed his opportunity with both hands (and feet). He has already settled better in Italy than some big names before him. I am more interested in seeing him progress. As others have said it would also not do any harm to our attractiveness as a club for young players.

[naeclue]

9 hours ago, Section Q said:

I think it will be a percentage rather than a fixed amount as someone else said. I would imagine Celtic are no longer entitled to anything after their share of the initial price we got for selling him to Bologna. Anyone really know....?

Hearts CEO stated categorically at the shareholders dinner that there is a sell on fee for Hearts only.  Nothing for Celtic.

 

 

 

 

[Section Q]

10 hours ago, naeclue said:

Hearts CEO stated categorically at the shareholders dinner that there is a sell on fee for Hearts only.  Nothing for Celtic.

 

 

 

 

That's good to know. I hope it's a big fat percentage.....!

[Fozzyonthefence]

6 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

No one really knows but I'd be stunned if Celtic weren't due a percentage of every single penny we get for Hickey.

They've been involved in transfers for over a century, how could their contract lawyers possibly miss that when us roasters on jkb have picked up on it?

I think you’ll be stunned then.

 

How many transfers over the last century have involved a second sell on fee on the third transfer after leaving the original selling club?  I’d imagine that’s a very rare thing.  Aren’t sell on fees quite a new thing anyway and normally just after the second transfer (i.e. Club A sells to Club B then gets percentage when Club B sells to Club C)?

 

Anyway, seems our CEO has already confirmed Celtic get nowt when he moves on from Bologna.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Fozzyonthefence

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

I think you’ll be stunned then.

 

How many transfers over the last century have involved a second sell on fee on the third transfer after leaving the original selling club?  I’d imagine that’s a very rare thing.  Aren’t sell on fees quite a new thing anyway and normally just after the second transfer (i.e. Club A sells to Club then gets percentage when Club B sells to Club C)?

 

Anyway, seems our CEO has already confirmed Celtic get nowt when he moves on from Bologna.

 

Agree. A second sell on fee to Celtic would be very strange. And if they valued him that highly why the hell did they let him go in the first place. They clearly didn't know what they had and no doubt just inserted a standard sell on clause to cover themselves. In fact they've messed up twice as they could more than likely have got him for 2-3m before he went to Bologna.

[Unknown user]

13 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I think you’ll be stunned then.

 

How many transfers over the last century have involved a second sell on fee on the third transfer after leaving the original selling club?  I’d imagine that’s a very rare thing.  Aren’t sell on fees quite a new thing anyway and normally just after the second transfer (i.e. Club A sells to Club B then gets percentage when Club B sells to Club C)?

 

Anyway, seems our CEO has already confirmed Celtic get nowt when he moves on from Bologna.

 

Hell of a lot of assumptions there, and to answer your questions, I don't know. But neither do you.

 

Is it really that mental to think a sell on clause could be worded in a way that a percentage of any money you get for this player in any context comes to us?

 

Also, it seems clear that people are confused about what was said and meant on this topic.

 

I just think it's crazy to assume that a multi million company that employs hundreds, including contract lawyers, wouldn't do it.

[SUTOL]

12 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I think you’ll be stunned then.

 

How many transfers over the last century have involved a second sell on fee on the third transfer after leaving the original selling club?  I’d imagine that’s a very rare thing.  Aren’t sell on fees quite a new thing anyway and normally just after the second transfer (i.e. Club A sells to Club B then gets percentage when Club B sells to Club C)?

 

Anyway, seems our CEO has already confirmed Celtic get nowt when he moves on from Bologna.

 

 

Sell on fee's (obviously) die off when a player doesn't move for a fee between clubs.

They may even expire if the player signs a new contract with his current club.

 

How many players always move for a fee? Can't be that many.

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Hell of a lot of assumptions there, and to answer your questions, I don't know. But neither do you.

 

Is it really that mental to think a sell on clause could be worded in a way that a percentage of any money you get for this player in any context comes to us?

 

Also, it seems clear that people are confused about what was said and meant on this topic.

 

I just think it's crazy to assume that a multi million company that employs hundreds, including contract lawyers, wouldn't do it.

 

Assuming the "multi million company" is Celtic, this is the same brain trust that declined to sign John McGinn, Andy Robertson, James McCarthy, and Hickey himself for peanuts when all of them would have walked over glass to play for Celtic and it was obvious their value was going to massively increase. Plus they all would have walked into the Celtic first team immediately. Celtic have made some very good foreign signings but they're not the smartest when it comes to their domestic transfer dealings. 

[Zico]

22 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I was there when the. ‘Six figure sum ‘ quote was made. There was no mention of whether it was a percentage or whatever. I took it to mean a percentage which would net us a six figure sum. 

That’s how I interpreted it - a percentage with a cap (i.e 10% capped up to a £9m transfer fee so £900k to us). 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

Hell of a lot of assumptions there, and to answer your questions, I don't know. But neither do you.

 

Is it really that mental to think a sell on clause could be worded in a way that a percentage of any money you get for this player in any context comes to us?

 

Also, it seems clear that people are confused about what was said and meant on this topic.

 

I just think it's crazy to assume that a multi million company that employs hundreds, including contract lawyers, wouldn't do it.

I didn’t make any assumptions there, possibly one, but you did - it was you that was assuming that Celtic would have a sell on clause on top of their sell on clause.  I’ve never heard of this being a thing in football but these days it does seem more common for a sell on clause on the next transfer rather than the one after that (like we did with Calum Paterson), this is often put out there in the media when transfer details are given out. 
 

And I’m quite happy to take our CEO’s word that Celtic don’t have a further sell on over you making an assumption based on absolutely nothing but a hunch!

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I didn’t make any assumptions there, possibly one, but you did - it was you that was assuming that Celtic would have a sell on clause on top of their sell on clause.  I’ve never heard of this being a thing in football but these days it does seem more common for a sell on clause on the next transfer rather than the one after that (like we did with Calum Paterson), this is often put out there in the media when transfer details are given out. 
 

And I’m quite happy to take our CEO’s word that Celtic don’t have a further sell on over you making an assumption based on absolutely nothing but a hunch!

 

I have said I don't have a source, but your imagining of how things normally work is based on assumption as well.

 

As I've said, it would be the easiest thing in the world to word a clause in such a way that the sell on fee relates to all and any income related to that player. So easy, I can't help thinking it's not far from negligence if that isn't the standard.

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

I have said I don't have a source, but your imagining of how things normally work is based on assumption as well.

 

As I've said, it would be the easiest thing in the world to word a clause in such a way that the sell on fee relates to all and any income related to that player. So easy, I can't help thinking it's not far from negligence if that isn't the standard.

I’m basing it on what our CEO told us. I’d imagine he’d know if Celtic had another sell on clause or not. If you don’t believe him that’s up to you.
 

I’ve honestly never even heard of a sell on clause on top of a sell on clause.  Have you?  If it’s so easy, surely every club would do it or they would be negligent?  Or maybe it’s not that easy.  I’ve certainly never seen a transfer reported where Club A, after selling to Club B, has had a share of Club B’s transfer fee from Club C.  I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but maybe you can give us some examples?

Edited December 29, 2021 by Fozzyonthefence

[SUTOL]

14 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I’ve honestly never even heard of a sell on clause on top of a sell on clause.  Have you?  If it’s so easy, surely every club would do it or they would be negligent?  Or maybe it’s not that easy.  I’ve certainly never seen a transfer reported where Club A, after selling to Club B, has had a share of Club B’s transfer fee from Club C.  I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but maybe you can give us some examples?

 

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/st-mirren-hoping-john-mcginn-25634728

 

or

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/inverness-caledonian-thistle/3436925/caley-thistle-to-receive-six-figure-sum-as-part-of-ryan-christie-switch-from-celtic-to-bournemouth/

 

Two examples without looking very far/hard. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by SUTOL

[Unknown user]

13 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I’m basing it on what our CEO told us. I’d imagine he’d know if Celtic had another sell on clause or not. If you don’t believe him that’s up to you.
 

I’ve honestly never even heard of a sell on clause on top of a sell on clause.  Have you?  If it’s so easy, surely every club would do it or they would be negligent?  Or maybe it’s not that easy.  I’ve certainly never seen a transfer reported where Club A, after selling to Club B, has had a share of Club B’s transfer fee from Club C.  I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but maybe you can give us some examples?

 

It's not a clause on top of a clause, it's a single clause saying if you get any money, we get a slice, plus people seem unclear about what was actually said.

 

And I'm not saying I'm right. I am saying it would be mental if I'm not though.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/st-mirren-hoping-john-mcginn-25634728

 

One example without looking very far/hard. 

Cheers.  Like I said I don’t think this is a common transaction (but perhaps is the nee way), on the basis of the lack of reporting of these transactions (when have Hearts ever benefitted from such a deal?), although of course in this case St Mirren (or Hibs) won’t get anything if McGinn stays at Villa. 

[SUTOL]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Cheers.  Like I said I don’t think this is a common transaction (but perhaps is the nee way), on the basis of the lack of reporting of these transactions (when have Hearts ever benefitted from such a deal?), although of course in this case St Mirren (or Hibs) won’t get anything if McGinn stays at Villa. 

 

 

See also Ryan Christie to Bournemouth netting ICT some money. 

 

 

Yes, as I posted earlier. If the player doesn't move for a fee, or signs a new contract it would probably end the 'sell-on' clause(s).

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

It's not a clause on top of a clause, it's a single clause saying if you get any money, we get a slice, plus people seem unclear about what was actually said.

 

And I'm not saying I'm right. I am saying it would be mental if I'm not though.

Well it would appear it does happen as it looks like St Mirren have an agreement with Hibs for McGinn but I’d be amazed if it was a common occurrence, although may become common.  Not sure why it wasn’t common in the past though.  Not that long ago that the more straight forward sell on clause involving only two clubs was unheard of (think of all the players we’ve sold for 7 figure sums since the 1990’s but I can’t recall any of them involving a sell on clause of any sort - was Paterson maybe the first?).

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Cheers.  Like I said I don’t think this is a common transaction (but perhaps is the nee way), on the basis of the lack of reporting of these transactions (when have Hearts ever benefitted from such a deal?), although of course in this case St Mirren (or Hibs) won’t get anything if McGinn stays at Villa. 

 

It probably just isn't normally that significant a number. 10% of 10% kind of thing, even from a £1m fee that would net £10k