All Home games to be streamed for ST Holders

[kila]

12 minutes ago, iainmac said:

The thread title suggests that it is "free" to ST holders. 

 

Indeed, the thread title should be changed to reflect the truth.

 

I do love a conspiracy and reasons why it hasn't been updated though  

 

[OldGorgie]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Genuine Hearts supporters who think this way? Nope, well wide of the mark in my opinion, OldGorgie.

I agree but there is an element who moan for the sake of it. 

[redjambo]

Just now, OldGorgie said:

I agree but there is an element who moan for the sake of it. 

 

Absolutely.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

34 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

It is a *long* leap to equate those who are pissed off with the club's handling of this issue with being bigots. A very long leap.

The phrase you’re looking for is utter horseshit 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

13 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Fair enough. Do you think the club should do anything at all, at least to clear up any confusion?

 

In response to actual feedback, eg direct complaints and requests for refunds, definitely. They simply can't make decisions based on social media and forums though. Or planes or sheets with writing on it hung from railings and bridges for that matter.

 

Clearly if lots of people call for refunds and all give the same reason, the club will know they ****ed up and will have to respond.

Edited September 18, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

In response to actual feedback, eg direct complaints and requests for refunds, definitely. They simply can't make decisions based on social media and forums though. Or planes for that matter.

 

Clearly if lots of people call for refunds and all give the same reason, the club will know they ****ed up.

The length and speed of the propaganda in the EEN suggests they were very much aware of this thread.

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

In response to actual feedback, eg direct complaints and requests for refunds, definitely. They simply can't make decisions based on social media and forums though. Or planes or sheets with writing on it hung from railings and bridges for that matter.

 

Clearly if lots of people call for refunds and all give the same reason, the club will know they ****ed up and will have to respond.

 

I am not sure what kind of reponse you are looking for?

 

Where is Hearts income for the season if enough people demand a refund?  That could trigger administration.

[iainmac]

I'm hearing from within that the club don't think this is a problem as they've "only had limited complaints".

 

They'll be aware of this thread - looks like they're ignoring it.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

33 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The same people complaining about ST prices will also complain about us signing lower quality players. I think Hearts will refund people who want it if they genuinely feel conned. But in reality buying a ST was a leap of faith for every fan of all clubs.

It can be sorted,  end of 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

I am not sure what kind of reponse you are looking for?

 

Where is Hearts income for the season if enough people demand a refund?  That could trigger administration.

 

I know. Which is why I think this is mostly noise. If people don't demand refunds it will have been mostly noise - some genuinely unhappy others choosing to have yet another dig against an owner they don't like. Most people don't want a refund IMO. Maybe some genuinely thought they would get access to online games AND a full 18 home games for their ST but I think most bought in the hope of crowds coming back rather than the expectation.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Sir Gio said:

It can be sorted,  end of 

 

Absolutely, but not based on social media complaints. Is my point.

[davemclaren]

18 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Indeed, the thread title should be changed to reflect the truth.

 

I do love a conspiracy and reasons why it hasn't been updated though  

 

Threat title edited as I can only cope with so many conspiracy theories at any one time. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, iainmac said:

I'm hearing from within that the club don't think this is a problem as they've "only had limited complaints".

 

They'll be aware of this thread - looks like they're ignoring it.

 

Maybe they've got you on ignore?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, iainmac said:

I'm hearing from within that the club don't think this is a problem as they've "only had limited complaints".

 

They'll be aware of this thread - looks like they're ignoring it.

In fairness, the benchmark for success under Budge is incredibly low so the club probably think they’ve played a blinder here.

[iainmac]

4 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Threat title edited as I can only cope with so many conspiracy theories at any one time. 

 

Especially when you're at the centre of most of them? 😁

[kila]

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Threat title edited as I can only cope with so many conspiracy theories at any one time. 

 

[davemclaren]

Just now, iainmac said:

 

Especially when you're at the centre of most of them? 😁

So it would seem. 

[Jamhammer]

2 minutes ago, iainmac said:

I'm hearing from within that the club don't think this is a problem as they've "only had limited complaints".

 

They'll be aware of this thread - looks like they're ignoring it.

Can’t blame them. I don’t see what else they can do to be honest.

However, in a season where statements are more frequent than signings I wouldn’t have minded a wee “Due to circumstances out with our control the only way you can watch Hearts at Tyney is online. It’s not ideal, we understand fans are pissed off however there is nothing we can do other than charge for online vowing it go bust”

[Jodami]

10 minutes ago, iainmac said:

I'm hearing from within that the club don't think this is a problem as they've "only had limited complaints".

 

They'll be aware of this thread - looks like they're ignoring it.

Good news on the limited complaints, hopefully have no issues getting my money back. 

[Saint Jambo]

40 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

My point in reply to someone saying the club should be taking into account fan opinion (seemingly from forums like this) was the club should not be using social media to gauge opinion on anything because of the people incessantly complaining about everything for the last 5 years. For example, if Hearts went with opinion online, Neilson never would have been reappointed.

 

Given you even quoted the bit where I said "this is hyperbole, I don't actually want Hearts to pay people to come onto JKB" it is clear your post is garbage. To try to imply I'm a bigot because I'm complaining is one of your stupidest posts so far.

 

As it happens lots of companies monitor social media as one aspect of understanding their customers. Your views of social media seem to be about a decade out of date. The trouble with just going on complaints received is that they tend to be a very small segment of those unhappy. Most unhappy customers just stop or reduce how much money they are spending with you without telling you why.

 

Your argument seems to be that you somehow represent the views of the silent majority. Which is just arrogance.

 

Just to address one of your other points. You suggest that the same people complaining will be the first to complain about the poor standard of players. I won't be. I was defending the decision to give Wighton another go a few days ago. 

 

The club have come to the conclusion that they made a mistake in offering he guarantee and have had to backtrack. You seem to have decided the people to blame for that mistake are the fans. That is just weird. I described this thread as a giant game of whack-a-mole, every time you explain to someone why this is a legitimate issue and they finally accept that, another two posters pop-up asking the same ill-informed questions that have been answered over the previous 30 pages. The difference with you is you are still asking the same questions you've now had answered repeatedly and still claiming no one has answered them. It's really tedious.

[Pasquale for King]

37 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I honestly can't tell. It's a lot of the same people. And it differs by the medium. Opinion on Twitter from what I saw was split on the St Mirren loan thing. Same with the STs. Facebook seems overrun with tubes. On here the criticism is more intense and sustained. Generally you could go by high post counts to try to find genuine posters, but then there are posters who seem to have literally done nothing but slag the club off for years so how can you take criticism of one particular issue seriously when they criticise everything? As I say, the real test of opinion is what people DO not what they say.

As opposed to mugs like yourself that rarely criticise anything the club does or says? 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Given you even quoted the bit where I said "this is hyperbole, I don't actually want Hearts to pay people to come onto JKB" it is clear your post is garbage. To try to imply I'm a bigot because I'm complaining is one of your stupidest posts so far.

 

As it happens lots of companies monitor social media as one aspect of understanding their customers. Your views of social media seem to be about a decade out of date. The trouble with just going on complaints received is that they tend to be a very small segment of those unhappy. Most unhappy customers just stop or reduce how much money they are spending with you without telling you why.

 

Your argument seems to be that you somehow represent the views of the silent majority. Which is just arrogance.

 

Just to address one of your other points. You suggest that the same people complaining will be the first to complain about the poor standard of players. I won't be. I was defending the decision to give Wighton another go a few days ago. 

 

The club have come to the conclusion that they made a mistake in offering he guarantee and have had to backtrack. You seem to have decided the people to blame for that mistake are the fans. That is just weird. I described this thread as a giant game of whack-a-mole, every time you explain to someone why this is a legitimate issue and they finally accept that, another two posters pop-up asking the same ill-informed questions that have been answered over the previous 30 pages. The difference with you is you are still asking the same questions you've now had answered repeatedly and still claiming no one has answered them. It's really tedious.

Well said. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

9 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

So it would seem. 

Bless you Dave. You’re a good lad.

[oi oi]

43 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I'm sure you could have a go at it. On this particular issue, do you think it is just interlopers and perennial haters of the regime who have a problem with how things are being handled, or do you think the anger/concern is any more widespread than that. Honest answer.

I think they're easier to spot on Facebook and Twitter as you can easily see their other comments, likes etc. Everything here is under the cover of darkness with an imagined persona.

[Pasquale for King]

29 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The phrase you’re looking for is utter horseshit 

Indeed, not surprised though. I’ve got him on ignore and I still can’t get away from him on every ****ing thread. 

[The Treasurer]

What's happened to all those that claimed they would still pay full price next season even if they saw nothing this season 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

What's happened to all those that claimed they would still pay full price next season even if they saw nothing this season 

Why would anything have happened to them? 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

9 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

To try to imply I'm a bigot because I'm complaining

 

There's absolutely no way anyone could read my post and seriously think that's what I said. I very obviously said there is so much negativity online, as well all know in large part due to a group that is seriously pissed off with Budge and her attempts to get rid of them, that genuine grievances can get lost in the noise in a "cry wolf" type way.

 

If you thought I meant you were a bigot (I don't even  know you) then that just proves people read things differently, which seems to be what has happened with the ST marketing.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

What's happened to all those that claimed they would still pay full price next season even if they saw nothing this season 

 

Every season for years now we've heard how FoH pledges will fall and ST sales will fall under the current "regime". They've gone up.

[oi oi]

2 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Not directly related, but this did get me thinking that Hearts could do with generating some good publicity around their streaming service. I wonder if there is something they could do with Big Hearts around helping vulnerable people access streams of the games for free.

 

Initially I was thinking about care homes, although this may be more tricky as I'm not if care home residents are still largely isolated in their rooms rather than sitting in common areas. How many residents would have access to the internet in their room? I don't know. But there are also those involved in the Memories project including weekly calls to over 65s who are most isolated. There are also those involved in their kinship care programme. Many of these people wouldn't normally be able to watch Hearts for either physical or financial reasons, other than games shown on BBC.

 

I know there is potentially a max limit on how many passes Hearts can sell (last year's season ticket number I believe?), but not clear to me that if they sell PPV that there will be significant demand given likely cost. Given the mess of cost to premium season ticket holder and multi-household season tickets they decide they can't fairly sell PPV anyway. There is also the option of speaking to the broadcasters around allowing a social community scheme like this if the max number thing is a problem. Give each club the right to give away 500 passes for social schemes through their club's charitable foundation.

Perhaps a drive in event at Murrayfield carpark with a big screen? Or hire a cinema with adequate social distancing in place? That could help the less internet savvy ST holders.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Indeed, not surprised though. I’ve got him on ignore and I still can’t get away from him on every ****ing thread. 

 

Ditto

[Guest ToqueJambo]

9 minutes ago, oi oi said:

I think they're easier to spot on Facebook and Twitter as you can easily see their other comments, likes etc. Everything here is under the cover of darkness with an imagined persona.

 

The Hearts Facebook page was a cesspit for a while back there (starting with the plane stuff). I stopped following as a result.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

There's absolutely no way anyone could read my post and seriously think that's what I said. I very obviously said there is so much negativity online, as well all know in large part due to a group that is seriously pissed off with Budge and her attempts to get rid of them, that genuine grievances can get lost in the noise in a "cry wolf" type way.

 

If you thought I meant you were a bigot (I don't even  know you) then that just proves people read things differently, which seems to be what has happened with the ST marketing.

That last paragraph is a work of art btw. Should be shown to all aspiring forumites on a ‘how to do kickback’ page.  😀

[Jamhammer]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The Hearts Facebook page was a cesspit for a while back there (starting with the plane stuff). I stopped following as a result.

The spelling killed me. Some of the vermin on here aren’t too subtle but on the fb page they make it way too easy

[jamboman9]

10 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

What's happened to all those that claimed they would still pay full price next season even if they saw nothing this season 

I'm here.😎

[Saint Jambo]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

There's absolutely no way anyone could read my post and seriously think that's what I said. I very obviously said there is so much negativity online, as well all know in large part due to a group that is seriously pissed off with Budge and her attempts to get rid of them, that genuine grievances can get lost in the noise in a "cry wolf" type way.

 

If you thought I meant you were a bigot (I don't even  know you) then that just proves people read things differently, which seems to be what has happened with the ST marketing.

 

Haha. Nice try. Your post was a snidey attempt to imply that those were complaining were mainly part of the '100 bigots'. The cry wolf theory only works if most of the complaints are from the 'bigots'.

 

Maybe if you actually tried to assess whether there was a genuine issue to be complained about rather than just dismissing all complaints on the basis that they can't be distinguished from the bigots, you wouldn't still be asking the same questions 30 pages after they were first answered.

[Paolo]

27 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

 

As it happens lots of companies monitor social media as one aspect of understanding their customers. Your views of social media seem to be about a decade out of date. The trouble with just going on complaints received is that they tend to be a very small segment of those unhappy. Most unhappy customers just stop or reduce how much money they are spending with you without telling you why.

.

 Correct.  They spend a lot of time and money doing so. 
 

Social media and forums like this do attract a few weirdos,  it is is generally a good measure of customer and public sentiment. 
 

Most unhappy people, particularly in this case, where there is sentiment involved, will not make formal complaints,  but will air their views online.    
 

I actually hope Hearts do spend time on here and on social media.  Not necessarily to act on views and feelings, but to understand them.  It might help future relations when making decisions and justifying them, and prevent sagas like this.  

Edited September 18, 2020 by Paolo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

14 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Haha. Nice try. Your post was a snidey attempt to imply that those were complaining were mainly part of the '100 bigots'. The cry wolf theory only works if most of the complaints are from the 'bigots'.

 

Maybe if you actually tried to assess whether there was a genuine issue to be complained about rather than just dismissing all complaints on the basis that they can't be distinguished from the bigots, you wouldn't still be asking the same questions 30 pages after they were first answered.

 

That's the way you read it. There does seem to be an issue. The question seems to be is it enough of an issue that people are demanding refunds. My point is complain directly to the club if you have a big issue. Don't expect the club to take what folk say on the internet as representative of the whole support - and then make decisions based on that - because there is so much criticism form the group I mentioned in particular.

Edited September 18, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

18 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

The spelling killed me. Some of the vermin on here aren’t too subtle but on the fb page they make it way too easy

 

They can't even spell poodle correctly.

[billybalfour]

I am still uneasy about the season even starting and Nicola is likely to shut things down rather than allow our season to get going.If that happens we will have more to worry about than a perceived injustice about what our season ticket money was meant to cover.

Let's hope we survive this if that is the way it ends up going.I wouldn't want my money back and would help out again if there was a call by the club or FOH.

What is the mood amongst all the posters on the SPFL thread who were/are going to donate money for games they were boycotting.It would be interesting to hear from some of them particularly if they are agitating to get their money refunded for home games which they can view but not attend.

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Jamhammer said:

Can’t blame them. I don’t see what else they can do to be honest.

However, in a season where statements are more frequent than signings I wouldn’t have minded a wee “Due to circumstances out with our control the only way you can watch Hearts at Tyney is online. It’s not ideal, we understand fans are pissed off however there is nothing we can do other than charge for online vowing it go bust”

 

I had to translate the last bit of your final sentence into English but yes, I agree. That's what they should have done. Any decent Hearts supporter would have understood.

[iainmac]

1 hour ago, Jamhammer said:

Can’t blame them. I don’t see what else they can do to be honest.

However, in a season where statements are more frequent than signings I wouldn’t have minded a wee “Due to circumstances out with our control the only way you can watch Hearts at Tyney is online. It’s not ideal, we understand fans are pissed off however there is nothing we can do other than charge for online vowing it go bust”

 

I wonder how they're going to handle the PPV price as Rangers are charging £9.99 per game. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, iainmac said:

 

I wonder how they're going to handle the PPV price as Rangers are charging £9.99 per game. 

 

No matter what they do, it will come over as unfair to those who are necessarily viewing streaming games as part of their season ticket. Unless they charge the equivalent of a walk-up ticket. I'd hate to be in their position, to be honest.

[Paolo]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

No matter what they do, it will come over as unfair to those who are necessarily viewing streaming games as part of their season ticket. Unless they charge the equivalent of a walk-up ticket. I'd hate to be in their position, to be honest.

We have created a big problem for ourselves with this guarantee. Many are hacked off that the guarantee now includes streamed games.  If the PPV price works out less than the season ticket price(s), then that will aggravate things more.  If they make it more expensive, then it will cost a fortune, especially if they make it more expensive than Platinum prices. 

[iainmac]

1 hour ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Haha. Nice try. Your post was a snidey attempt to imply that those were complaining were mainly part of the '100 bigots'. The cry wolf theory only works if most of the complaints are from the 'bigots'.

 

Maybe if you actually tried to assess whether there was a genuine issue to be complained about rather than just dismissing all complaints on the basis that they can't be distinguished from the bigots, you wouldn't still be asking the same questions 30 pages after they were first answered.

 

Club shill, possibly the new CEO. 

[iainmac]

20 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

No matter what they do, it will come over as unfair to those who are necessarily viewing streaming games as part of their season ticket. Unless they charge the equivalent of a walk-up ticket. I'd hate to be in their position, to be honest.

 

They've put themselves in this position by not being upfront & honest with the fans. 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I spend too much time on this forum  

That’s the truth

Edited September 18, 2020 by Toxteth O'Grady

[Toxteth O'Grady]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The Hearts Facebook page was a cesspit for a while back there (starting with the plane stuff). I stopped following as a result.

There’s an idea for you 

[Paolo]

5 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

They've put themselves in this position by not being upfront & honest with the fans. 

They have. They have almost turned a win-win situation, into a lose-lose one. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Haha. Nice try. Your post was a snidey attempt to imply that those were complaining were mainly part of the '100 bigots'. The cry wolf theory only works if most of the complaints are from the 'bigots'.

 

Maybe if you actually tried to assess whether there was a genuine issue to be complained about rather than just dismissing all complaints on the basis that they can't be distinguished from the bigots, you wouldn't still be asking the same questions 30 pages after they were first answered.

 

I've not dismissed the complaints. I've said there are valid complaints and I can see how there could be confusion. I'm just having a clearly pointless discussion about how seriously opinions stated on the internet, usually anonymously, should be taken. 

 

Although I'm still not clear how anyone could expect to see 18 games in person (possibly spread over two seasons) and watch games online (possibly for an entire season meaning next year's ST would be free) under the same ST and not have that push the club into deep financial trouble (if everyone did that).

Edited September 18, 2020 by ToqueJambo