Fozzyonthefence Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, GinRummy said: It’s not though. I’ve explained it really clearly. Clubs maximising the advantage of the old firm is damaging to the game. I don’t think I can make it any clearer but I’m happy to try if you still don’t understand. Try telling that to the Saints fans. They’ve just achieved something we’ve never seen our team do and can only dream of. Say what you want about the number of tickets they give to the OF (and I’d hate to see Hearts do that but obviously we don’t have to) but they’ve been an example of a well run club, much better run than we have been over the last 20 years. Look at it another way - maximising income from the OF fans in this case has damaged Rangers. That extra income helps the St Johnstones of this world afford better players - it helped them beat Rangers at Ibrox in the quarter final. Not really sure how that is damaging the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Forever Hearts said: If they were giving three stands to Hearts you wouldn't care less. Hearts don’t have the advantages the old firm do. Neither do any other clubs in Scotland. That is the whole point. Do you honestly not get it or are you deliberately ignoring the point? FWIW I fully understand that st Johnstone need to earn money, which is the entire basis of your argument. Why can’t you even attempt to understand the other side of the debate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said: That is shocking. How does a referee who has doubt give the penalty? Mental isnt it. Here lads if you arent sure dont give it unless its the OF , Dundee or Hibs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Its banjo boy 2 that kicks the back of the utd players leg for that pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complete control Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Have we really had a brilliant start to the season ? 😣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Just now, Fozzyonthefence said: Try telling that to the Saints fans. They’ve just achieved something we’ve never seen our team do and can only dream of. Say what you want about the number of tickets they give to the OF (and I’d hate to see Hearts do that but obviously we don’t have to) but they’ve been an example of a well run club, much better run than we have been over the last 20 years. Look at it another way - maximising income from the OF fans in this case has damaged Rangers. That extra income helps the St Johnstones of this world afford better players - it helped them beat Rangers at Ibrox in the quarter final. Not really sure how that is damaging the game. I don’t know how I can explain it any better. If the old firm are getting three stands in several away grounds that gives them an advantage over everyone else. It’s akin to them having extra home games. The short term gain of clubs like St Johnstone and Livingston is to the long term detriment of everyone else other than Rangers and Celtic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveins Battalion Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Arthur Morgan said: 0-3 already. We were 0-1 up at HT through a Boyce pen rebound. If only we could take our chances, we would be scoring way more because we've had loads of chances this season. Hopefully we can find the target on Saturday, going for a 3-0 win. GMS to blame,we should be sitting clear at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Morgan Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Leveins Battalion said: GMS to blame,we should be sitting clear at the top. I agree tbh, 3 absolute sitters he's missed. We could be sitting on maximum points tbf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, GinRummy said: Hearts don’t have the advantages the old firm do. Neither do any other clubs in Scotland. That is the whole point. Do you honestly not get it or are you deliberately ignoring the point? FWIW I fully understand that st Johnstone need to earn money, which is the entire basis of your argument. Why can’t you even attempt to understand the other side of the debate? Because your argument is based on some fanciful notion that every club should be filling their ground with home fans. You're totally out of touch and can't grasp the fact that these fans simply don't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveins Battalion Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, complete control said: Have we really had a brilliant start to the season ? 😣 Well considering we have just been promoted,had to endure unfair wrongdoings by the Scottish Football Maffia I would say we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveins Battalion Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: ffs are the Utd team all on the bingo? They are just a shockingly poor team,only the boy Fuchs has any quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsimp77 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Nothing more obvious than them drawing St Johnstone in the semis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 what a waste there utd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: Try telling that to the Saints fans. They’ve just achieved something we’ve never seen our team do and can only dream of. Say what you want about the number of tickets they give to the OF (and I’d hate to see Hearts do that but obviously we don’t have to) but they’ve been an example of a well run club, much better run than we have been over the last 20 years. Look at it another way - maximising income from the OF fans in this case has damaged Rangers. That extra income helps the St Johnstones of this world afford better players - it helped them beat Rangers at Ibrox in the quarter final. Not really sure how that is damaging the game. They didn't win 2 cups in one season because they give 3 stands to the OF. They had good runs and the good fortune to draw easy teams in the finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martoon Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Independence Day 2...about to start on Film 4. Thinking of turning over. Is it any good? Is it, at least, better than listening to Celtic and Hibs 3 up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Arthur Morgan said: 0-3 already. We were 0-1 up at HT through a Boyce pen rebound. If only we could take our chances, we would be scoring way more because we've had loads of chances this season. Hopefully we can find the target on Saturday, going for a 3-0 win. Lucky pen for them though (again) and D Utd don't seem to have shown up, unlike against us for part of the game at least. If we're comparing... Edited September 23, 2021 by ToqueJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedBoy Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 H1b5 fans singing. What a shitey home support. Oh the irony……… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said: They didn't win 2 cups in one season because they give 3 stands to the OF. They had good runs and the good fortune to draw easy teams in the finals. Do you think the money they pocketed from the extra income against the Old Firm helped them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, GinRummy said: Hearts don’t have the advantages the old firm do. Neither do any other clubs in Scotland. That is the whole point. Do you honestly not get it or are you deliberately ignoring the point? FWIW I fully understand that st Johnstone need to earn money, which is the entire basis of your argument. Why can’t you even attempt to understand the other side of the debate? So are you saying that Livi or St Johnstone giving 3 stands to Celtic and Rangers is an advantage to Rangers and Celtic but giving 3 stands to Hearts isn’t an advantage to Hearts? Not sure how you’re not grasping that these clubs having more money from bigger crowds is more likely to increase their competitiveness not reduce it. Would you rather Saints played in front of 2k every week and had a weaker team out and handed the Huns their first ever cup? Or rather they papped them out in the quarter final last season. I know which one I prefer and I was pissing myself that night. There’s only 3 clubs in Scotland that don’t need to or wouldn’t give the OF a huge ticket allocation. Are you advocating that we just have a professional league of 5 teams in Scotland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Forever Hearts said: Because your argument is based on some fanciful notion that every club should be filling their ground with home fans. You're totally out of touch and can't grasp the fact that these fans simply don't exist. No it’s not. What you’ve done there is twist what I’ve said and resorted to making things up to suit your own point of view. Something I haven’t done to you. Nobody is denying st Johnstone’s right to earn money. The reason I don’t like it is because it hands the old firm a clear advantage. Something you refuse to acknowledge for some reason only you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) Hopefully Hibs get Celtic or Rangers in the semi. How many times have we faced OF teams, especially early in the cup and especially very strong Celtic sides, in the last 5-6 years compared to them? Edited September 23, 2021 by ToqueJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Hobos play like that against any of the other 3 they will get well skelp'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said: Do you think the money they pocketed from the extra income against the Old Firm helped them? No. Cups don't work like that. Cups are cups - very unpredictable. Anyhow, if this is their approach why not go the whole hog and do what St Mirren did and open up an OF shop in their ground? Edited September 23, 2021 by ToqueJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Just now, GinRummy said: No it’s not. What you’ve done there is twist what I’ve said and resorted to making things up to suit your own point of view. Something I haven’t done to you. Nobody is denying st Johnstone’s right to earn money. The reason I don’t like it is because it hands the old firm a clear advantage. Something you refuse to acknowledge for some reason only you know. So it hands them an advantage, big deal? It's better than making pennies from a 2k home support and not being able to buy a better standard of player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said: No. Cups don't work like that. Cups are cups - very unpredictable. Anyhow, if this is their approach why not go the whole hog and do what St Mirren did and open up an OF shop in their ground? Increased income didn't help them buy better players in order to do well in cup competitions? 🤔 I think we'll leave it there.👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Hibsed it on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said: Increased income didn't help them buy better players in order to do well in cup competitions? 🤔 I think we'll leave it there.👍 Did it help them buy those players? I have no idea how they built last year's squad. I have no issue with clubs maximising revenue. Just don't think turning your home games into OF home games is a good longterm strategy (in terms of building your own support) or in the spirit of the game. Sends out total the wrong message and is very tinpot frankly. Imagine Brentford giving 3 stands to Man Utd. Edited September 23, 2021 by ToqueJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, GinRummy said: I don’t know how I can explain it any better. If the old firm are getting three stands in several away grounds that gives them an advantage over everyone else. It’s akin to them having extra home games. The short term gain of clubs like St Johnstone and Livingston is to the long term detriment of everyone else other than Rangers and Celtic. No, I’m just not accepting what you’re saying because you’re arguing a very weak point. Livi give us 3 stands as well so that must be detrimental to everyone else too otherwise you’re just being a hypocrite. And it’s not short term gain for these clubs, it’s a long term strategy. Most of them do it year in year out, although I think St Johnstone only last season increased the OF tickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Just now, Hearts007 said: Hibsed it on? A Hibsed it is always on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Just now, ToqueJambo said: A Hibsed it is always on! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 the chances they blew in 1 tst half and that pen havent helped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said: Did it help them buy those players? I have no idea how they built last year's squad. I have no issue with clubs maximising revenue. Just don't think turning your home games into OF home games is a good strategy or in the spirit of the game. Needs must. St Johnstone aren't Hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naisys Tackle Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Mon the Arabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: No. Cups don't work like that. Cups are cups - very unpredictable. Anyhow, if this is their approach why not go the whole hog and do what St Mirren did and open up an OF shop in their ground? But surely you have to concede if they have more money they can afford better players? The same logic that dictates that the OF can afford much better players than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Forever Hearts said: Needs must. St Johnstone aren't Hearts. That's the point. If they NEED to give away 3 stands to generate revenue can they even be considered a top league team? What's the point of St J in that case? Just another home game for the OF? They should cut their cloth and if that means they're mostly a Championship team so be it. Edited September 23, 2021 by ToqueJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Just now, Fozzyonthefence said: So are you saying that Livi or St Johnstone giving 3 stands to Celtic and Rangers is an advantage to Rangers and Celtic but giving 3 stands to Hearts isn’t an advantage to Hearts? Not sure how you’re not grasping that these clubs having more money from bigger crowds is more likely to increase their competitiveness not reduce it. Would you rather Saints played in front of 2k every week and had a weaker team out and handed the Huns their first ever cup? Or rather they papped them out in the quarter final last season. I know which one I prefer and I was pissing myself that night. There’s only 3 clubs in Scotland that don’t need to or wouldn’t give the OF a huge ticket allocation. Are you advocating that we just have a professional league of 5 teams in Scotland? The two situations, giving stands to the old firm or hearts are barely comparable. How many more advantages should the old firm get in what is allegedly a sporting competition. Media, Refs, other clubs. It’s already like a shots Harlem Globetrotters v the Washington generals. How long before only us, Hibs and Aberdeen occupy more than one stand in their own ground when the ugly sisters come to town? I’m honestly not being dismissive or cheeky but you must know your second paragraph is laughable pish. To suggest that giving the old firm three stands somehow helps the smaller teams be more competitive against the old firm because of additional gate receipts is fanciful. It’s like giving a homeless person a tenner and expecting them to turn their life around. Clubs should concentrate on working in their local community and building their own fan base to earn income. That could be a long and ultimately fruitless path but it is the only way forward. Kowtowing to the old firm is dragging us further and further backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 oh nearly in again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said: But surely you have to concede if they have more money they can afford better players? The same logic that dictates that the OF can afford much better players than us. Should they also sell drugs? That's a way to get more money. If they can't compete without turning their home games into OF games then that should tell them something about their club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 So we weathered D Utd's little purple patch in our game very well. Hibs not coping so well it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Nisbet and Boyle been like the invisible man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said: So it hands them an advantage, big deal? It's better than making pennies from a 2k home support and not being able to buy a better standard of player. No it’s not. It’s better for st Johnstone in the short term but the longer the old firm dominate the harder it will be for these clubs to get fans at any level at all. In 50 years time you’ll be able to fit the st Johnstone support in their own directors box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: That's the point. If they NEED to give away 3 stands to generate revenue can they even be considered a top league team? What's the point of St J in that case? Just another home game for the OF? They should cut their cloth and if that means they're mostly a Championship team so be it. You do realise most teams in Scotland give the Old Firm a decent chunk of their stadium? Is it a six team league you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Just now, GinRummy said: No it’s not. It’s better for st Johnstone in the short term but the longer the old firm dominate the harder it will be for these clubs to get fans at any level at all. In 50 years time you’ll be able to fit the st Johnstone support in their own directors box. It's better for St Johnstone full stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: No, I’m just not accepting what you’re saying because you’re arguing a very weak point. Livi give us 3 stands as well so that must be detrimental to everyone else too otherwise you’re just being a hypocrite. And it’s not short term gain for these clubs, it’s a long term strategy. Most of them do it year in year out, although I think St Johnstone only last season increased the OF tickets. It’s a weak long term strategy. Unsustainable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Just now, Forever Hearts said: It's better for St Johnstone full stop. No, it’s better for st Johnstone short term. What happens when they get relegated. What happens when they can’t get the three stands filled four times a season? It’s a classic example of short termism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvery_Moon Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, lsimp77 said: Nothing more obvious than them drawing St Johnstone in the semis. Saint Johnstone did fine against Hibs at Hampden in both cups last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Just now, GinRummy said: No, it’s better for st Johnstone short term. What happens when they get relegated. What happens when they can’t get the three stands filled four times a season? It’s a classic example of short termism. Why is it unsustainable? There will always be Old Firm fans wanting tickets for games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) Should have been 2 there....poor decision by linesperson as Pawlett was onside and had finished With VAR this would be 2-2 now Edited September 23, 2021 by CJGJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, GinRummy said: The two situations, giving stands to the old firm or hearts are barely comparable. How many more advantages should the old firm get in what is allegedly a sporting competition. Media, Refs, other clubs. It’s already like a shots Harlem Globetrotters v the Washington generals. How long before only us, Hibs and Aberdeen occupy more than one stand in their own ground when the ugly sisters come to town? I’m honestly not being dismissive or cheeky but you must know your second paragraph is laughable pish. To suggest that giving the old firm three stands somehow helps the smaller teams be more competitive against the old firm because of additional gate receipts is fanciful. It’s like giving a homeless person a tenner and expecting them to turn their life around. Clubs should concentrate on working in their local community and building their own fan base to earn income. That could be a long and ultimately fruitless path but it is the only way forward. Kowtowing to the old firm is dragging us further and further backwards. Ok I’ll spell this out clearly for you because you’re obviously struggling with simple logic. Smaller clubs generate a lot more income by maximising ticket sales by giving the OF the majority of their ground (and not just with the OF, Livi do it with Hearts and Hibs too and I’ve seen us at McDiarmid Park with 6k fans out of a 10k crowd. It’s simple economics. More income = bigger player budget and if the football recruitment side is doing its job then they should be able to afford better players. If you can’t grasp that I ****ing despair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS98 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Clearly on side and should be 3-2 now. Hibs have got to be the luckiest ****ers around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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