Hearts transfers (Cochrane goes on loan to Montrose)

[jambonian]

Just now, 1971fozzy said:

hardly.  Lee was very good for us before Levein fell out with him. Another player he damn near ruined. 

 

No like Levein that eh!?

Remember Levein saying at the start of last season that Olly Lee is homesick so Hearts are not standing his way to find another club.

Few weeks at Gillingham and Lee is in the press saying that wasn't the case, he wasn't home sick, he questioned Levein's tactics  (as have a few others that have been and gone it seems) to which Levein wasn't happy about at all. Basically, do as I say or you're out the club. Levein has a lot to answer for, but arrogance knows no boundaries. Pretty sure Lee would've been quite happy to hear Levein had been given the chop.

[jambonian]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Just about every player who’s helped us sink to a ridiculously low level is being defended somewhere on this forum. It’s almost as if people have forgotten how utterly shite we were before Covid and the spfl cheats. 

 

But you also have to remember that various squads in the last four years have been pretty dire as well. I remember saying back in 2016-17-ish that players had come in, looked half decent and within two to three months they pretty much all fell by the wayside in one way or another. That can be down to a few things but for me, it's about the coaching. It's also about players not being given a freedom ( to an extent) to express themselves on the field. The Levein "system" didn't allow for expression, it was too rigid and many players were given a mouthful if they dared try something productive. Milinkovic is a perfect example, a player that doesn't do rigid and likes to wander all over the pitch to create. Moving on to 2019/20 nothing much had changed. Levein signed players to play a specific way. Stendel comes in, is shocked at the condition of the players (his words) and tries to work with players that either didn't want to change, or were incapable of it. A few did, Clare, Bozanic and the young players were up for it, Whelan, Damour, Mulraney and Berra (who couldn't get himself in the press quick enough) didn't appear to give a stuff. Their attitude came across as unprofessional and it's down to attitudes like that we found ourselves where we were.

I'm not saying every player was good enough, far from it, but that can also be down to poor recruitment by the manager and scouts. Basically it's a combination of things.

We'll need to wait and see how the squad reacts to Neilson now. 

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I agree

 

I think some people dont realise how quite a few players need to be put certain position or style to do well. Some can play well no matter the style and where they are positioned. It often happens with strikers, a player scores 20 goals in a season at a club, is signed by another club and scores a handful. Its not that the player is suddenly a terrible player, its that one club knows how to get the most out of them. 

 

I agree, we need to play to players strengths. Though at the same time, if a player doesn't fit the way the team plays which brings out the strengths in other players, its pointless changing that to fit one player.

Agree.  In time you could see he wasn’t really suited playing just off our defenders as the first port of call in possession. He seemed too cagey being in a tighter area of the park and he isn’t blessed with pace or that acceleration you need to shift opposition players hunting you down. 
 

He may have preferred being ahead of that and receiving the ball as a move gathers momentum.  
 

👍🏻

 

 

 

[GinRummy]

25 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

But you also have to remember that various squads in the last four years have been pretty dire as well. I remember saying back in 2016-17-ish that players had come in, looked half decent and within two to three months they pretty much all fell by the wayside in one way or another. That can be down to a few things but for me, it's about the coaching. It's also about players not being given a freedom ( to an extent) to express themselves on the field. The Levein "system" didn't allow for expression, it was too rigid and many players were given a mouthful if they dared try something productive. Milinkovic is a perfect example, a player that doesn't do rigid and likes to wander all over the pitch to create. Moving on to 2019/20 nothing much had changed. Levein signed players to play a specific way. Stendel comes in, is shocked at the condition of the players (his words) and tries to work with players that either didn't want to change, or were incapable of it. A few did, Clare, Bozanic and the young players were up for it, Whelan, Damour, Mulraney and Berra (who couldn't get himself in the press quick enough) didn't appear to give a stuff. Their attitude came across as unprofessional and it's down to attitudes like that we found ourselves where we were.

I'm not saying every player was good enough, far from it, but that can also be down to poor recruitment by the manager and scouts. Basically it's a combination of things.

We'll need to wait and see how the squad reacts to Neilson now. 

Difficult to disagree with any of that. 

[lost in space]

34 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

But you also have to remember that various squads in the last four years have been pretty dire as well. I remember saying back in 2016-17-ish that players had come in, looked half decent and within two to three months they pretty much all fell by the wayside in one way or another. That can be down to a few things but for me, it's about the coaching. It's also about players not being given a freedom ( to an extent) to express themselves on the field. The Levein "system" didn't allow for expression, it was too rigid and many players were given a mouthful if they dared try something productive. Milinkovic is a perfect example, a player that doesn't do rigid and likes to wander all over the pitch to create. Moving on to 2019/20 nothing much had changed. Levein signed players to play a specific way. Stendel comes in, is shocked at the condition of the players (his words) and tries to work with players that either didn't want to change, or were incapable of it. A few did, Clare, Bozanic and the young players were up for it, Whelan, Damour, Mulraney and Berra (who couldn't get himself in the press quick enough) didn't appear to give a stuff. Their attitude came across as unprofessional and it's down to attitudes like that we found ourselves where we were.

I'm not saying every player was good enough, far from it, but that can also be down to poor recruitment by the manager and scouts. Basically it's a combination of things.

We'll need to wait and see how the squad reacts to Neilson now. 

Good post.

I had completely forgotten about Whelan. What a shocking attitude he had. Not interested in helping younger players on the park or taking control. Had high hopes for him too.

[Kylejordan]

3 hours ago, Newton51 said:

Lee started well for us but his form dipped. The annoying thing was last summer when we signed Whelan and damour on big money to replace Olly but neither were an upgrade

This 100%. I personally liked lee. Yea he wasn’t the quickest but his distribution and range of passing was very good. If you can get legs around him it works. I.e haring and Irving alongside him will work well I believe. 
Whelan came in and could tell from his body language he couldn’t give a rats ass about the team and was only there to get into the Ireland squad. Stendel sussed him very quickly. Damour played constantly with his back to the opposite goal when receiving the ball, was slow to press and couldn’t tackle for toffee. How many big goals have we conceded through him switching off on the ball? Can not wait for Robbie to see this in Damour and politely tell him GTF. 
 

 

[Cruyff]

3 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Lee ended up a disappointment, latterly, but again I felt he wasn’t helped by the whole approach and mindset at the club.

 

You could argue he’s limited and it’s these kinds of players we need to improve on but we never set up to use the strengths of players. It was clear Lee could strike a ball very well. He was tidy enough on the ball if not spectacular. He wasn’t played advanced enough, imo.

 

He should’ve been played further forward , being able to play in that link role between midfield and attack. Picking up loose balls 25, 30 yards out. Over a season we may have seen a decent return on goals and influence. 
 

In times he got played in a more advanced role we saw intent to have a go at goal or get into the box. It was all too rare because the management didn’t play that way. 
 

Motherwell goal in the league cup and winner v Hibs only really spring to mind where we saw him in games popping up closer to the box or getting in it. 

Agree. Not Lee's biggest fan, he's slow as feck and couldn't tackle a fish supper but he's a good passer, can hit a ball and a good finisher. He's not a central mid. He's a poor man's Frank Lampard type player who should be given a free role to get forward to create and score. 

4 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Just about every player who’s helped us sink to a ridiculously low level is being defended somewhere on this forum. It’s almost as if people have forgotten how utterly shite we were before Covid and the spfl cheats. 

Spot on. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Cruyff

[maroon]

I know I sound like a miserable boring ******* but just based on insta walker and lee have been enjoying a drink this weekend surely they will be nowhere near match fit if by some miracle we stayed up 

[Holyrood_Hearts]

13 minutes ago, maroon said:

I know I sound like a miserable boring ******* but just based on insta walker and lee have been enjoying a drink this weekend surely they will be nowhere near match fit if by some miracle we stayed up 

Christ almighty

[Taffin]

22 minutes ago, maroon said:

I know I sound like a miserable boring ******* but just based on insta walker and lee have been enjoying a drink this weekend surely they will be nowhere near match fit if by some miracle we stayed up 

 

No change there then 🤭

 

[Bazzas right boot]

31 minutes ago, maroon said:

I know I sound like a miserable boring ******* but just based on insta walker and lee have been enjoying a drink this weekend surely they will be nowhere near match fit if by some miracle we stayed up 

 

 

😂😂😂

[gashauskis9]

Truth is, Levein could have signed Messi and Ronaldo and still manage to ruin them.

 

Clean slate for every player who starts the season with Robbie.  Last year’s frustrations can’t boil over.  No matter what happens, we won’t be starting the season 4 points adrift at the bottom of a league.  

[Uncle Buck]

I wasn’t a big fan of Lee but **** me we had to put up with Whelan and Damour last season so anything is better. I think him and Haring will really help. I reckon Lee’s best position is behind the striker anyway and will probably be more of a back up for Naismith.

[Rick Sanchez]

Gordon

 

Smith

Souttar

Halkett

Hickey

 

Clare

Haring

Lee

Walker

 

Naismith

Boyce

 

Signings and departures will happen but to think I've had two people say we'll struggle to get out of a 'hard league' next season

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

Gordon

 

Smith

Souttar

Halkett

Hickey

 

Clare

Haring

Lee

Walker

 

Naismith

Boyce

 

Signings and departures will happen but to think I've had two people say we'll struggle to get out of a 'hard league' next season

 

 

 

 

Agree, it will only be hard if another team is much better than the rest and wins all the time as well.

 

The overall quality will be worse than normal. 

 

[Pasquale for King]

9 hours ago, Pagey said:

I'm hoping, with some of these articles and attributed Robbie comments, that he's saying what needs to be said to keep his options open with players and once the season path forward is clearer, he can generate some movement out for the deadwood created by Levein. With the transfer window being open into October, there'll be time to get things done. Surprised that Lee would stay tho, given he wanted to be back in South of England so maybe up to him to force the move. 

He didn’t want to move back down south that was a blatant lie from a manager trying to pull the wool over someone’s eyes. Lee said in an interview it was nonsense, he had fallen out with Levein over what he laughing called tactics. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, gashauskis9 said:

Truth is, Levein could have signed Messi and Ronaldo and still manage to ruin them.

 

Clean slate for every player who starts the season with Robbie.  Last year’s frustrations can’t boil over.  No matter what happens, we won’t be starting the season 4 points adrift at the bottom of a league.  

Messi at LB pinging long diagonals and Ronaldo on the bench as an impact sub when we lose the inevitable goal, only allowed on after a 5 minute chat between the coaches, because he can’t trust him to defend. 

[Gordon Ramsay]

5 hours ago, Rick Sanchez said:

Gordon

 

Smith

Souttar

Halkett

Hickey

 

Clare

Haring

Lee

Walker

 

Naismith

Boyce

 

Signings and departures will happen but to think I've had two people say we'll struggle to get out of a 'hard league' next season

 

 

 

 

We'll piss that league no bother. 

[HMFC 86]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Messi at LB pinging long diagonals and Ronaldo on the bench as an impact sub when we lose the inevitable goal, only allowed on after a 5 minute chat between the coaches, because he can’t trust him to defend. 

Still makes me so angry the amount of time Levein and his team of hangers on were given to put us in the position we were in

Edited July 25, 2020 by HMFC 86

[Ainsley Harriott]

5 hours ago, Rick Sanchez said:

Gordon

 

Smith

Souttar

Halkett

Hickey

 

Clare

Haring

Lee

Walker

 

Naismith

Boyce

 

Signings and departures will happen but to think I've had two people say we'll struggle to get out of a 'hard league' next season

 

 

 

Minus Peter Haring that midfield is diabolical 

[Pasquale for King]

10 minutes ago, HMFC 86 said:

Still makes me so angry the amount of time Levein and his team of hangers on were given to put us in the position we were in

Indeed it does, hopefully the arbitration will go our way and we can start to move on from it. 

[Stendelnator]

32 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Minus Peter Haring that midfield is diabolical 

We’ll be in the second tier. It’ll be fine. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Minus Peter Haring that midfield is diabolical 

Still be the best in the division by a mile. 

[Ronaldo9]

Lee’s best games were when the team was on the front foot and having people ahead to link up with in Uche, MacLean and Naisy. He’s more than enough to get us out to he championship should we end up there. 
 

Lack of work rate though? Not for me. A few people confusing a lack of pace with a lack of work rate. IMO of course! 

[5-1Jambo]

Do we actually have any transfer news? 

[Cheile]

1 hour ago, 5-1Jambo said:

Do we actually have any transfer news? 

 

Obviously not.

[complete control]

4 hours ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

 

We'll piss that league no bother. 

Woopy doo 

[Bazzas right boot]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Messi at LB pinging long diagonals and Ronaldo on the bench as an impact sub when we lose the inevitable goal, only allowed on after a 5 minute chat between the coaches, because he can’t trust him to defend. 

 

Aye, true story. 

[jambotony]

I hope we don't have the mindset of just turn up and we'll win.. We will have to fight for every point as we will be a big scalp to the so called lesser teams so for me, whilst it looks a strong team on paper.. our attitude will be key 

[Alan_R]

1 hour ago, jambotony said:

I hope we don't have the mindset of just turn up and we'll win.. We will have to fight for every point as we will be a big scalp to the so called lesser teams so for me, whilst it looks a strong team on paper.. our attitude will be key 

 

Is it a strong team on paper? I keep reading we will skoosh it, forwards are good for the level (assuming naisy stays fit) but midfield is a gaping wound. Still unbalanced and severely lacking

 

With Lee and walker getting talked up im a wee bit concerned we are think weve got what it takes already. Im not convinced.

[Ainsley Harriott]

10 hours ago, Stendelnator said:

We’ll be in the second tier. It’ll be fine. 

True but it's more the thought that the club were able to sign players and the other 3 were what they came up with.

[TheBigO]

16 hours ago, Rick Sanchez said:

Gordon

 

Smith

Souttar

Halkett

Hickey

 

Clare

Haring

Lee

Walker

 

Naismith

Boyce

 

Signings and departures will happen but to think I've had two people say we'll struggle to get out of a 'hard league' next season

 

 

 

Yes, yes, yes.

 

Another option is Irving for either of Walker or Lee.

 

Ive always liked JJs lineup with only one out and out winger.

[Taffin]

3 hours ago, Alan_R said:

 

Is it a strong team on paper? I keep reading we will skoosh it, forwards are good for the level (assuming naisy stays fit) but midfield is a gaping wound. Still unbalanced and severely lacking

 

With Lee and walker getting talked up im a wee bit concerned we are think weve got what it takes already. Im not convinced.

 

Same. It's like the last few seasons where people kept saying 'our team is really good it's just not playing well just now/tactics/injuries'. The reality is our team isn't good, in fact, it's terrible and we're lucky that the Championship is even worse but it won't be a cakewalk unless we add some quality in midfield and defence.

 

The midfield listed in the team above is absolutely dreadful aside from Haring...who hasn't played for over a year. I like Clare, but at rb/rwb, he didn't cut it for me at right midfield. If we go into next season with that 4 man midfield and Haring gets an injury we'll struggle.

[kingantti1874]

3 hours ago, Alan_R said:

 

Is it a strong team on paper? I keep reading we will skoosh it, forwards are good for the level (assuming naisy stays fit) but midfield is a gaping wound. Still unbalanced and severely lacking

 

With Lee and walker getting talked up im a wee bit concerned we are think weve got what it takes already. Im not convinced.

robbie has said we are after 2 wide players and a midfielder, lee is better than what we had last season, Peter Haring is getting fit 🤞🏻 (our best player bar none) wee Harry without any doubt has the talent and by all accounts is working his arse off, as does Connor smith.  If we sign one more good midi fielder we will be ok

[TyphoonJambo]

53 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

robbie has said we are after 2 wide players and a midfielder, lee is better than what we had last season, Peter Haring is getting fit 🤞🏻 (our best player bar none) wee Harry without any doubt has the talent and by all accounts is working his arse off, as does Connor smith.  If we sign one more good midi fielder we will be ok

Id add Irving to that list, kids got a bit of class

Edited July 26, 2020 by TypoonJambo

[Gordon Ramsay]

8 hours ago, complete control said:

Woopy doo 

 

🎉🎉

[Jambo92]

5 hours ago, Alan_R said:

 

Is it a strong team on paper? I keep reading we will skoosh it, forwards are good for the level (assuming naisy stays fit) but midfield is a gaping wound. Still unbalanced and severely lacking

 

With Lee and walker getting talked up im a wee bit concerned we are think weve got what it takes already. Im not convinced.

 

It needs a freshening up for me, at present it's the same team that took us to the bottom of the league. So would be shocked if they just rock up and start winning games again. Lee and Haring coming back in will be like a new signings however, I do strongly believe it was our midfield that was the major problem last season (other than our goalies!!) 

[Jambo dans les Pyrenees]

Here's what I hope to see if we are in the Championship next year - mainly youth and Bielsa 3 3 1 3 style!  

 

                                     Gordon

 

         Smith/Souttar   Halkett.   Sandison/New LCB

 

McDonald/Clare      Haring/Irvine             Hickey/Moore   

 

                                  Cochrane/Lee

 

              Naismith                               Henderson

                                     Boyce

                       

 

I think one of Smith or Souttar will go but if not that solves the shortage in defence.  I'd like Berra to go now, but suspect he'll stay and be played - if there is a player in Halkett, we are not going to find him playing next to Berra.

 

Hickey might also be sold, but hopefully loaned back.

 

Think also Washington might be sold.

 

I'd get rid of White, Burns, Damour, Wighton and unless. a major attitude change is taking place right now -  Walker.

 

Subs:  Zlamal/Stone, Brandon, Garuccio, Morrison, Ikpeazu plus whoever from above and some of the reserves.

              

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Queensland Jambo said:

Here's what I hope to see if we are in the Championship next year - mainly youth and Bielsa 3 3 1 3 style!  

 

                                     Gordon

 

         Smith/Souttar   Halkett.   Sandison/New LCB

 

McDonald/Clare      Haring/Irvine             Hickey/Moore   

 

                                  Cochrane/Lee

 

              Naismith                               Henderson

                                     Boyce

                       

 

I think one of Smith or Souttar will go but if not that solves the shortage in defence.  I'd like Berra to go now, but suspect he'll stay and be played - if there is a player in Halkett, we are not going to find him playing next to Berra.

 

Hickey might also be sold, but hopefully loaned back.

 

Think also Washington might be sold.

 

I'd get rid of White, Burns, Damour, Wighton and unless. a major attitude change is taking place right now -  Walker.

 

Subs:  Zlamal/Stone, Brandon, Garuccio, Morrison, Ikpeazu plus whoever from above and some of the reserves.

              

 

Like the formation and masks a few of our short comings. We'd need another CB as cover but I'd go

 

Gordon

Smith Halkett Souttar

Clare Haring Hickey

New CAM

Washington Boyce Naismith

[GinRummy]

19 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

If we are in the Championship then I think, with a few decent additions,  that we will go through the season unbeaten. 

 

I'm being serious. 

 

After the recent events I don't think attitude and motivation will be a problem. 

 

 

We’ll win the championship. If you look at how strapped for cash the other clubs in the league are we really should stroll it. 
 

As for attitude and motivation, hopefully the opposition will be so poor we won’t need much of it. 

[HMFC01]

Looks like Morelos could be leaving to go to Lille.  Personal terms agreed.  Both clubs still negotiating a transfer fee, most probably add ons.

Edited July 26, 2020 by HMFC01

[Rick Sanchez]

I agree my midfield was powderpuff, but like I say, incomings and outgoings. Smith will go so I would have Clare as an attacking full back with a couple of new wingers.

 

Haring and Lee ain't too bad in the championship if Naismith drops back.

 

If Neilson can sort out the defence and make them happy then Souttar and Halkett will perform better. You could see their frustration under Stendel.

[HMFC01]

I am reading they want £20 mil but I read last few weeks his value had dropped to around 14 mill.  So they will most likely want sell on fee with add ons to make up the 6 mill.  Potential sell on fee at %25 if he's sold for 40 million = 10 mill, so there's your 30    I would guess he could be worth at least 60 million in the future if he doesn't have a melt down.

[OTT]

59 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

If we are in the Championship then I think, with a few decent additions,  that we will go through the season unbeaten. 

 

I'm being serious. 

 

After the recent events I don't think attitude and motivation will be a problem. 

 

 

 

Its certainly a goal we should be aiming for tbh. Our very own invincible's  Without Rangers or Hibs in the division this team, its totally achievable. 

 

Biggest priority for me is youth though. Need to use the upcoming season to bring as many youngsters up into the first team as possible. Some will make it, others won't. Important to figure that out over the coming season so changes can be made in the following summer. If we do that successfully Robbie will be in a great position for when we do come back up. Heaps of kids, can focus on quality improvements rather than packing the squad out with journeymen (which was a huge problem under Levein IMO).

[jbee647]

20 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Agree, it will only be hard if another team is much better than the rest and wins all the time as well.

 

The overall quality will be worse than normal. 

 

27 victories should not be beyond Hearts in next season’s championship 

Not joking when I say this is what we should be aiming for

[Bazzas right boot]

32 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

27 victories should not be beyond Hearts in next season’s championship 

Not joking when I say this is what we should be aiming for

 

Yeah, we should winning most games and unless someone else wins like 20 plus    games or the likes we should piss it. 

 

My point was , in a shit league it is possible another team will win most games as well and make it closer than it should be can only think of icy tho, everyone else looks in bits. 

Random example, but sticking the likes Chelsea in the top league would mean they should win it but celtic would still be close to them as by default they'll still win the vast number of their games, a shit league with two better teams might be harder to win than one with us being the better and say 4 other teams that all take points of each other. 

 

Probably over thinking it Tbh. 

 

[Castle rock]

21 hours ago, Rick Sanchez said:

Gordon

 

Smith

Souttar

Halkett

Hickey

 

Clare

Haring

Lee

Walker

 

Naismith

Boyce

 

Signings and departures will happen but to think I've had two people say we'll struggle to get out of a 'hard league' next season

 

 

 

That team will win the the championship comfortably 

[David McCaig]

9 minutes ago, Castle rock said:

That team will win the the championship comfortably 

Our reserves would win the Championship comfortably!!

[Castle rock]

4 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Our reserves would win the Championship comfortably!!

Exactly can't believe that there are fans who think we will struggle in the championship 

[Bunny Munro]

I think we should have no problems winning the championship next year. 

It was clear that the squad was better than the team last year, and little things would have made a huge difference (getting a proper keeping in Jan, Sibbick staying fit). 

 

In 27 games - assuming they play most of them, Boyce and Naismith should be aiming for 40 goals between them.