Hearts transfers (Cochrane goes on loan to Montrose)

[jambopilms]

23 minutes ago, Castle rock said:

That team will win the the championship comfortably 

Not if they play like they have the last 18 months. We got beat by everyone around us and the top of the championship won't be much worse than the bottom of the premiership. Big change in attitude, fitness and players is needed if we are to be romping anything.

[TheBigO]

45 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Yeah, we should winning most games and unless someone else wins like 20 plus    games or the likes we should piss it. 

 

My point was , in a shit league it is possible another team will win most games as well and make it closer than it should be can only think of icy tho, everyone else looks in bits. 

Random example, but sticking the likes Chelsea in the top league would mean they should win it but celtic would still be close to them as by default they'll still win the vast number of their games, a shit league with two better teams might be harder to win than one with us being the better and say 4 other teams that all take points of each other. 

 

Probably over thinking it Tbh. 

 

Na I get the thinking. The head to heads become important.

 

Ive always said it about our top league. You don't need to be better than the OF, just better than the rest to get close. The kicker in Scotland is you have 8 games against the big 2. Just as they like it.

 

Amazing thing in 97/98 was we got so close but did poorly against the OF. A couple of those games had went our way, that season could have been legendary. It did show you can get close, though now Celtic get 15-20 points more than they did that season.

[jr ewing]

7 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Not if they play like they have the last 18 months. We got beat by everyone around us and the top of the championship won't be much worse than the bottom of the premiership. Big change in attitude, fitness and players is needed if we are to be romping anything.

New manager new attitude. 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Na I get the thinking. The head to heads become important.

 

Ive always said it about our top league. You don't need to be better than the OF, just better than the rest to get close. The kicker in Scotland is you have 8 games against the big 2. Just as they like it.

 

Amazing thing in 97/98 was we got so close but did poorly against the OF. A couple of those games had went our way, that season could have been legendary. It did show you can get close, though now Celtic get 15-20 points more than they did that season.

 

 

Yeah exactly my thinking. 

 

The the league is as poor as expected a decent ICT side for example could run us close by default. 

 

100% correct, also Aberdeen when they finished in 83 points or whatever as well, celtic battered them 4 times - 24 point swing. 

The funny thing is, iirc they beat them twice out of 4 the season after. 

I find that stuff interesting. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

15 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Not if they play like they have the last 18 months. We got beat by everyone around us and the top of the championship won't be much worse than the bottom of the premiership. Big change in attitude, fitness and players is needed if we are to be romping anything.

 

 

In that 18 months we also  put 9 goals over 2 games v ict - who were second last season. 

 

The difference is vast, likely even bigger this season. 

 

 

 

[TheBigO]

7 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Yeah exactly my thinking. 

 

The the league is as poor as expected a decent ICT side for example could run us close by default. 

 

100% correct, also Aberdeen when they finished in 83 points or whatever as well, celtic battered them 4 times - 24 point swing. 

The funny thing is, iirc they beat them twice out of 4 the season after. 

I find that stuff interesting. 

 

 

Yeah me too. Its the carrot of the miracle season. If someone outwith the OF won the league in Scotland, it'd be the biggest coup in football history. Way above Leicester, Denmark 92 and the other usual ones which are trotted out.

 

The gap is bigger, the cards more stacked and the history more one/two sided than any other association on earth. Only Uruguay used to compare but they sorted it out and had at least a couple of other champs in the last 10 years I think. (sure they did something like agreeing not to sell players to Penarol and Nacional, tho my memory may be wrong there)

[TheBigO]

6 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

In that 18 months we also  put 9 goals over 2 games v ict - who were second last season. 

 

The difference is vast, likely even bigger this season. 

 

 

 

The difference between the leagues is huge. Even something as simple as fitness, its night and day. We should scoosh it*.

 

IF we end up there*

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Yeah me too. Its the carrot of the miracle season. If someone outwith the OF won the league in Scotland, it'd be the biggest coup in football history. Way above Leicester, Denmark 92 and the other usual ones which are trotted out.

 

The gap is bigger, the cards more stacked and the history more one/two sided than any other association on earth. Only Uruguay used to compare but they sorted it out and had at least a couple of other champs in the last 10 years I think. (sure they did something like agreeing not to sell players to Penarol and Nacional, tho my memory may be wrong there)

 

Greece is bad as well, we are heading towards that. 

One team won the last 24/25 leagues or something. 

[GinRummy]

32 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Not if they play like they have the last 18 months. We got beat by everyone around us and the top of the championship won't be much worse than the bottom of the premiership. Big change in attitude, fitness and players is needed if we are to be romping anything.

We should be using next season as a chance to build for the season after. So we don’t need to make 19 signings in the season we come up. I want a big change in attitude and fitness as well but we’ll pish that league. Nobody has money to bring in decent players and squads will be made up with youth players. 

[jambopilms]

23 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

In that 18 months we also  put 9 goals over 2 games v ict - who were second last season. 

 

The difference is vast, likely even bigger this season. 

 

 

 

Did we not struggle to get through the group stages of the league cup against Utd and Arbroath.

[Jumper]

46 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Not if they play like they have the last 18 months. We got beat by everyone around us and the top of the championship won't be much worse than the bottom of the premiership. Big change in attitude, fitness and players is needed if we are to be romping anything.

 

With Jim Jeffries behind Robbie I would be very surprised if that didn't happen. Two PHM with a point to make for the club.

[GinRummy]

12 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Did we not struggle to get through the group stages of the league cup against Utd and Arbroath.

United aren’t in the league anymore and the other teams bar Dunfermline are struggling to fill shirts. We didn’t play well against teams from lower leagues than the championship but we’d win league 1 or league 2 easily as well. 

[Bazzas right boot]

19 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Did we not struggle to get through the group stages of the league cup against Utd and Arbroath.

 

Falkirk as well. 

Got through tho. 

 

We'll piss the league IMO, the only threat is that if another team is really consistent as well due to the majority being pish.

 

If in the championship I wouldn't be worrying too much. 

 

[Castle rock]

1 hour ago, jambopilms said:

Not if they play like they have the last 18 months. We got beat by everyone around us and the top of the championship won't be much worse than the bottom of the premiership. Big change in attitude, fitness and players is needed if we are to be romping anything.

 

I still think we will comfortably win the league. 

[Rick Sanchez]

If Butcher, Harkes and Powers can stroll the championship then Haring, Lee and Irving shouldn't have that much bother dictating a game down there.

[davie1980]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Lafferty has signed with newly promoted Seria B side Reggina, 

 

So we can put that idea to bed now

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

If Butcher, Harkes and Powers can stroll the championship then Haring, Lee and Irving shouldn't have that much bother dictating a game down there.

 

Boyce and Naismith up front😂😂😂

 

Gordon in goals instantly made us a top 6 side imo. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Lafferty has signed with newly promoted Seria B side Reggina, 

 

So we can put that idea to bed now

 

He gets about. 

 

We seemed to have got the best from him as well. 

Signed for free, scored goals for us, sold for £650k.

 

[Rick Sanchez]

7 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Boyce and Naismith up front😂😂😂

 

Gordon in goals instantly made us a top 6 side imo. 

 

 

 

Agreed mate.

 

The contributing factors last season were injuries, poor management/man management and shite goalkeepers.

 

Craig Levein handing out full time amateur contracts, leaving the coaching and unhappiness of the squad to his lap dugs. Using wyscout. 

 

Daniel Stendel gave us what we wanted, a bit of heart and effort but even Stevie Wonder could see the opposition strikers playing on the shoulders of Souttar and Halkett. He gave confidence to a lot of players and pissed a few off, not what we needed at the time. He didn't have the players for his system.

 

I'm depressed just writing that  I'm not a huge fan of Neilson but I think he'd have got us safe tbh. I can't wait until he and JJ dismantle what Levein has built.

[JamboAl]

21 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

 

Agreed mate.

 

The contributing factors last season were injuries, poor management/man management and shite goalkeepers.

 

Craig Levein handing out full time amateur contracts, leaving the coaching and unhappiness of the squad to his lap dugs. Using wyscout. 

 

Daniel Stendel gave us what we wanted, a bit of heart and effort but even Stevie Wonder could see the opposition strikers playing on the shoulders of Souttar and Halkett. He gave confidence to a lot of players and pissed a few off, not what we needed at the time. He didn't have the players for his system.

 

I'm depressed just writing that  I'm not a huge fan of Neilson but I think he'd have got us safe tbh. I can't wait until he and JJ dismantle what Levein has built.

St Mirren?

[CJGJ]

53 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

 

Agreed mate.

 

The contributing factors last season were injuries, poor management/man management and shite goalkeepers.

 

Craig Levein handing out full time amateur contracts, leaving the coaching and unhappiness of the squad to his lap dugs. Using wyscout. 

 

Daniel Stendel gave us what we wanted, a bit of heart and effort but even Stevie Wonder could see the opposition strikers playing on the shoulders of Souttar and Halkett. He gave confidence to a lot of players and pissed a few off, not what we needed at the time. He didn't have the players for his system.

 

I'm depressed just writing that  I'm not a huge fan of Neilson but I think he'd have got us safe tbh. I can't wait until he and JJ dismantle what Levein has built.

You are joking I hope

 

Stendel was one of the main reasons for our position in the league

 

His stubbornness not to change his set up until even he realised change was required cost us

 

He admitted he had to change because what he was asking of the players was not working..he got it wrong

 

When he changed we improved...oh and what about his signings...not one made the grade or even came close

[Big Bruno]

5 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

You are joking I hope

 

Stendel was one of the main reasons for our position in the league

 

His stubbornness not to change his set up until even he realised change was required cost us

 

He admitted he had to change because what he was asking of the players was not working..he got it wrong

 

When he changed we improved...oh and what about his signings...not one made the grade or even came close

Boyce did ok and is a top class signing for us.

[Rick Sanchez]

16 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

You are joking I hope

 

Stendel was one of the main reasons for our position in the league

 

His stubbornness not to change his set up until even he realised change was required cost us

 

He admitted he had to change because what he was asking of the players was not working..he got it wrong

 

When he changed we improved...oh and what about his signings...not one made the grade or even came close

 

Did you even read the post?

 

Players playing on our centre backs shoulders...didn't have the players for the system?

 

I never praised Stendel, I only said he gave us some heart and effort. Which most of the fan base was happy with.

 

And Sibbick made the grade.

 

 

[OTT]

2 hours ago, Rick Sanchez said:

 

Agreed mate.

 

The contributing factors last season were injuries, poor management/man management and shite goalkeepers.

 

Craig Levein handing out full time amateur contracts, leaving the coaching and unhappiness of the squad to his lap dugs. Using wyscout. 

 

Daniel Stendel gave us what we wanted, a bit of heart and effort but even Stevie Wonder could see the opposition strikers playing on the shoulders of Souttar and Halkett. He gave confidence to a lot of players and pissed a few off, not what we needed at the time. He didn't have the players for his system.

 

I'm depressed just writing that  I'm not a huge fan of Neilson but I think he'd have got us safe tbh. I can't wait until he and JJ dismantle what Levein has built.

 

Agreed. I'd love Robbie to emulate it but with a much more streetwise approach. Robbie will have his own ideas though. I would like for him to try and incorporate more aggression into how we play. We seem pretty toothless more often than not which doesn't make for an entertaining afternoon. 

 

Hopefully JJ can work with Robbie and the academy. Levein spoke about principles of play and I think on one level we can see that in the academy lads virtually all being solid footballers technically, but there was zero meaningful attempt to try and play to these principles in the first team. Why, is probably a harder question to pin point, but I think the need for results at first team level meant football went out of the window, perhaps Levein didn't have confidence in his own project. Regardless,  my hope is that JJ can rework these principles and perhaps condense them to something which is workable at first team level. I don't think its unfair to say that the academy needs to be better aligned with the needs of the first team. 

 

IMO it can't be stressed enough how important the academy is. It effectively gives us players we otherwise couldn't afford. Paterson or Walker at their peak (for us) were easily worth a couple million each. Look at Motherwell with Turnball and Campbell (Hastie and Scott prior to selling them too), its 100% doable. If we can really focus on developing more kids then we'll eventually hit a point where we have 3/4/5 players at once in a similar position which will help massively in pushing for silverware and Europe. 

[Debut 4]

3 hours ago, Rick Sanchez said:

 

Agreed mate.

 

The contributing factors last season were injuries, poor management/man management and shite goalkeepers.

 

Craig Levein handing out full time amateur contracts, leaving the coaching and unhappiness of the squad to his lap dugs. Using wyscout. 

 

Daniel Stendel gave us what we wanted, a bit of heart and effort but even Stevie Wonder could see the opposition strikers playing on the shoulders of Souttar and Halkett. He gave confidence to a lot of players and pissed a few off, not what we needed at the time. He didn't have the players for his system.

 

I'm depressed just writing that  I'm not a huge fan of Neilson but I think he'd have got us safe tbh. I can't wait until he and JJ dismantle what Levein has built.

Agree.  It’s getting to the stage it’s cringeworthy certain posters to this day still sneak up to defend Levein with a shot at Stendel.  
 

Most Hearts fans I know are in the same boat as you and I in that they feel Stendel would’ve did a job in time. He didn’t have time and Covid changed the landscape anyway. If the latter didn’t happen the facts were he was mired into a downward spiralling team and having to deal with mediocrity, lack of confidence and belief, petulance, weak characters.  Ffs, how quick can someone turn that around?

 

He was caught between a rock and a hard place.  He went for the jugular as he probably felt that’s what the fans wanted and needed. If he’d remained cagey and the same results happened as before,  how would everyone had reacted then?

 

Hopefully RN and JJ show up the sham of Levein’s period. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Debut 4

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Agreed. I'd love Robbie to emulate it but with a much more streetwise approach. Robbie will have his own ideas though. I would like for him to try and incorporate more aggression into how we play. We seem pretty toothless more often than not which doesn't make for an entertaining afternoon. 

 

Hopefully JJ can work with Robbie and the academy. Levein spoke about principles of play and I think on one level we can see that in the academy lads virtually all being solid footballers technically, but there was zero meaningful attempt to try and play to these principles in the first team. Why, is probably a harder question to pin point, but I think the need for results at first team level meant football went out of the window, perhaps Levein didn't have confidence in his own project. Regardless,  my hope is that JJ can rework these principles and perhaps condense them to something which is workable at first team level. I don't think its unfair to say that the academy needs to be better aligned with the needs of the first team. 

 

IMO it can't be stressed enough how important the academy is. It effectively gives us players we otherwise couldn't afford. Paterson or Walker at their peak (for us) were easily worth a couple million each. Look at Motherwell with Turnball and Campbell (Hastie and Scott prior to selling them too), its 100% doable. If we can really focus on developing more kids then we'll eventually hit a point where we have 3/4/5 players at once in a similar position which will help massively in pushing for silverware and Europe. 

I agree with what you’ve said there but I don’t think Jeffries will have anything to do with Academy unfortunately. His PT role will be helping Neilson if he’s asked and reporting to the board on what’s happening and why. 

[OTT]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I agree with what you’ve said there but I don’t think Jeffries will have anything to do with Academy unfortunately. His PT role will be helping Neilson if he’s asked and reporting to the board on what’s happening and why. 

 

Yeah you're probably not wrong. Kevin Kyle on Open Goal mentioned JJ saying he had a few things to sort out, so here's hoping, but as you've said it does seem more along those lines. 

[Pasquale for King]

56 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Yeah you're probably not wrong. Kevin Kyle on Open Goal mentioned JJ saying he had a few things to sort out, so here's hoping, but as you've said it does seem more along those lines. 

A huge understatement I think, Kyle could certainly help this group with his attitude to the game, similar to Naismith in that respect. 

[Batistuta87]

Dunno if he's been mentioned, but just seen that Ikechi Anya is a free agent. What do we think of him? Personally think he would be an absolute steal.

 

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Dunno if he's been mentioned, but just seen that Ikechi Anya is a free agent. What do we think of him? Personally think he would be an absolute steal.

 

Absolutely, wages might be an issue but he would surely help the younger guys grow.

[HMFC01]

Anya reported as having a calf injury for 1 year.  WTF a calf injury just wtf.  I would say a medical would be in order first.  He was an appealing player apart from that.  Quick and nippy.  Good work rate.

 

Edit:  He had an ankle and calf injury since the Rangers pre season game last year.

 

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/ikechi-anya-derby-county-watford-4132025

 

Quote

Anya had helped Watford win promotion in 2014-15 and played for the Hornets in the Premier League in 2015-16 before a transfer deadline-day move in August 2016 saw him join the Rams. A player who can operate in a wide role, at full back or at wing back, his versatility appeared to be a good addition at the time.

The fee was £4m and the length of contract was four years on an extremely healthy salary, believed to be around £27,000 a week. The figures coupled with his record of 38 games - 20 starts and 18 appearances as a substitute - and one goal in four years add up to a costly move that registers as an expensive miss on the list of "hit and miss" signings.

We have seen nowhere near enough of Anya. There have been ongoing injury issues, ankle and calf. He damaged an ankle in the final game of pre-season against Rangers at Ibrox in July and apart from some appearances for the under-23s during the season, he has been sidelined much of the time.

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by HMFC01

[busby1985]

                                 Gordon 

 

                      Smith Halkett Souttar 

 

Clare                                                          Hickey 

 

               Irving          Haring              Lee 

 

                                 Naismith

 

                                   Boyce 

 

Walker, Washington, Berra, Loic, Garrucio, Henderson, Moore, McDonald, Cochrane. 
 

I wouldn’t be upset if we didn’t sign anyone. 

 

[Cruyff]

13 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Dunno if he's been mentioned, but just seen that Ikechi Anya is a free agent. What do we think of him? Personally think he would be an absolute steal.

 

Depends on his fitness. He's no spring chicken but massive experience. Defo take him if fit. 

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

17 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Dunno if he's been mentioned, but just seen that Ikechi Anya is a free agent. What do we think of him? Personally think he would be an absolute steal.

 

Loved watching Anya play for Scotland. If he's fit he's definitely someone we should look at.

[Batistuta87]

15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Absolutely, wages might be an issue but he would surely help the younger guys grow.

Yeah, rumoured £25k a week plus bonuses at Derby so if he can get anywhere near that elsewhere down south or abroad he'll likely take it. Lucky if we could give him 1/10th that. Mind you Naismith was on £50k a week at Norwich and we talked him round... Maybe Naisy and Gordon could be a draw as ex international teammates. 

 

15 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

Anya reported as having a calf injury for 1 year.  WTF a calf injury just wtf.  I would say a medical would be in order first.  He was an appealing player apart from that.  Quick and nippy.  Good work rate.

Versatile too. Can attack and defend on the right or the left so could be very useful. Said this loads but if signed it would be another case of "if he can stay fit..."... 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Batistuta87

[Pasquale for King]

43 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Yeah, rumoured £25k a week plus bonuses at Derby so if he can get anywhere near that elsewhere down south or abroad he'll likely take it. Lucky if we could give him 1/10th that. Mind you Naismith was on £50k a week at Norwich and we talked him round... Maybe Naisy and Gordon could be a draw as ex international teammates. 

 

Versatile too. Can attack and defend on the right or the left so could be very useful. Said this loads but if signed it would be another case of "if he can stay fit..."... 

 

He will probably have better offers at a higher level unfortunately.

[Jamboscanbevicius]

2 hours ago, Batistuta87 said:

Dunno if he's been mentioned, but just seen that Ikechi Anya is a free agent. What do we think of him? Personally think he would be an absolute steal.

 

I like Anya, but 20 starts in 4 seasons.... no thanks!!!
 

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/ikechi-anya-derby-county-watford-4132025

[Gulf Jambo]

7 hours ago, busby1985 said:

                                 Gordon 

 

                      Smith Halkett Souttar 

 

Clare                                                          Hickey 

 

               Irving          Haring              Lee 

 

                                 Naismith

 

                                   Boyce 

 

Walker, Washington, Berra, Loic, Garrucio, Henderson, Moore, McDonald, Cochrane. 
 

I wouldn’t be upset if we didn’t sign anyone. 

 

 

Have to think, once they get some confidence going again, they should romp the championship. 

 

I think we'll see Garuccio come into his own under Robbie. 

He has pace, can run all day & is a great crosser of the ball

[KyleLafferty]

Jamie Walker will be starting under neilson, no question about that.

[Beast Boy]

16 hours ago, Rick Sanchez said:

If Butcher, Harkes and Powers can stroll the championship then Haring, Lee and Irving shouldn't have that much bother dictating a game down there.

Of course they won’t. Can’t believe people are questioning the likes of Sean Clare and Olly Lee to skoosh the SPFL Championship!
 

Especially Clare. Seems to buck the trend of players that supporters make out to be world beaters the longer they don’t see them play. The guy was one of our best players for months, then some idiot questions his ability, and all of a sudden he’s shite again. Absolutely baffling stuff.

[Clerry Jambo]

1 hour ago, Gulf Jambo said:

 

Have to think, once they get some confidence going again, they should romp the championship. 

 

I think we'll see Garuccio come into his own under Robbie. 

He has pace, can run all day & is a great crosser of the ball

With respect mate don’t think we will need 3 at the back in the championship 

[Beast Boy]

A totally crippled Championship, with clubs struggling to hit four figures in season tickets? Aye... it’s a pure hard league right enough.

[JimmyCant]

11 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I agree with what you’ve said there but I don’t think Jeffries will have anything to do with Academy unfortunately. His PT role will be helping Neilson if he’s asked and reporting to the board on what’s happening and why. 

Was just thinking the same. Folk have an inflated opinion of what JJ’s role is here. It’s part time and temporary advisor to the board. Specifically helping with transfers in and out. I can’t see him rocking up at Riccarton  on a daily basis and I’d be surprised if he was anything more than a spectator on match days. This is not going to be a JJ team. It’s a Neilson team. Having said that I don’t think there is a huge difference in their preferred system of play.

 

Not a massive fan of Neilson last time round but he’ll have learnt a lot since he’s been away. Certainly shouldn’t have any problem getting us out of the championship at the first time of asking.

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Of course they won’t. Can’t believe people are questioning the likes of Sean Clare and Olly Lee to skoosh the SPFL Championship!
 

Especially Clare. Seems to buck the trend of players that supporters make out to be world beaters the longer they don’t see them play. The guy was one of our best players for months, then some idiot questions his ability, and all of a sudden he’s shite again. Absolutely baffling stuff.

I think you can look all over our squad and see players like Clare. Decent talent with some flaws. That’s the market we’ve operated in for years with a few exceptions.

 

My issue with this squad is that collectively, it didn’t seem to give a shit a lot of the time. Something was and possibly still is rotten there. Neilson fixes that and we’ll be fine. If he doesn’t identify and sort what the issue is, he’ll be gone pretty quick  because a squad with no spunk and togetherness won’t win the championship, no matter the supposed quality of the individuals in it.

[Beast Boy]

4 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I think you can look all over our squad and see players like Clare. Decent talent with some flaws. That’s the market we’ve operated in for years with a few exceptions.

 

My issue with this squad is that collectively, it didn’t seem to give a shit a lot of the time. Something was and possibly still is rotten there. Neilson fixes that and we’ll be fine. If he doesn’t identify and sort what the issue is, he’ll be gone pretty quick  because a squad with no spunk and togetherness won’t win the championship, no matter the supposed quality of the individuals in it.

Cant argue with much there. I’d question the “not giving a shit” part, for some players though. I think it is the case for some like Whelan, but others I think struggled with the set up, and coaching. I think some tried through really difficult circumstances but eventually lost their willingness to put themselves in the firing line, so just played it safe instead. I’m still ****ing raging at the performances from Whelan. 
 

New manager and coaches now though, so hopefully it’s been addressed.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Special Officer Doofy

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Cant argue with much there. I’d question the “not giving a shit” part, for some players though. I think it is the case for some like Whelan, but others I think struggled with the set up, and coaching. I think some tried through really difficult circumstances but eventually lost their willingness to put themselves in the firing line, so just played it safe instead. I’m still ****ing raging at the performances from Whelan. 

It’s easy enough to point the finger at Levein here. He was dreadful in many respects. But then we had Stendel, a completely different character and half the squad didn’t believe in the system and chucked the towel in. We can argue all day about whether we had the players for the system but there was IMO an element of the squad throwing Stendel under a bus. I think there are one or two characters in the senior end of the squad who’ll need to go. Not entirely convinced re Naismith for a start. As a player on his day he’s a match-winner, as a character in the dressing room, strong guys can either be very positive or wholly negative. Just a thought, might be wrong.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, JimmyCant said:

It’s easy enough to point the finger at Levein here. He was dreadful in many respects. But then we had Stendel, a completely different character and half the squad didn’t believe in the system and chucked the towel in. We can argue all day about whether we had the players for the system but there was IMO an element of the squad throwing Stendel under a bus. I think there are one or two characters in the senior end of the squad who’ll need to go. Not entirely convinced re Naismith for a start. As a player on his day he’s a match-winner, as a character in the dressing room, strong guys can either be very positive or wholly negative. Just a thought, might be wrong.

I don’t think Levein was the main problem in all honesty. I think it was far more complicated than that, and down to a combination of things. Some of those things were obvious and undeniable events that we all saw with our own eyes like injuries and poor refereeing, whilst others are open to conjecture and suspicion because they took place behind closed doors (or we had little insight in to), like coaching, training, man management, and wages.

 

For me, I know it was down to injuries and refereeing to a degree, and I suspect resentment about a lack of parity in training requirements and coaching deficiencies also exacerbated an already bad situation. Add to that revelations of high basic salary and low performance bonuses, and I think I have a reasonable picture of what may have caused our decline.

[JimmyCant]

20 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I don’t think Levein was the main problem in all honesty. I think it was far more complicated than that, and down to a combination of things. Some of those things were obvious and undeniable events that we all saw with our own eyes like injuries and poor refereeing, whilst others are open to conjecture and suspicion because they took place behind closed doors (or we had little insight in to), like coaching, training, man management, and wages.

 

For me, I know it was down to injuries and refereeing to a degree, and I suspect resentment about a lack of parity in training requirements and coaching deficiencies also exacerbated an already bad situation. Add to that revelations of high basic salary and low performance bonuses, and I think I have a reasonable picture of what may have caused our decline.

Possibly you meant to say he wasn’t  the ONLY problem. He was definitely the MAIN problem.

 

Window after window Levein kept going on about quality over quantity, but did the exact opposite. As a result he had a pretty good starting 11 who’d beat anyone on their day, but he had nothing behind it and no youths coming through that he felt he could trust. Injuries caused him far more grief than they should have done.
 A whole load of other issues you’ve alluded to, none of which Would really have mattered that much in a winning squad but get magnified in a struggling squad.

 

Refereeing ? Well we’ve had more than our share of shockers that’s for sure. But its not in the top 10 reasons we ended up in the place we ended up in. It’s a very easy external thing to blame but the reality is that it’s probably not a contributing factor to being consistently shite over a (nearly) 2 year period.

Edited July 27, 2020 by JimmyCant

[sandylejambo]

11 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I don’t think Levein was the main problem in all honesty. I think it was far more complicated than that, and down to a combination of things. Some of those things were obvious and undeniable events that we all saw with our own eyes like injuries and poor refereeing, whilst others are open to conjecture and suspicion because they took place behind closed doors (or we had little insight in to), like coaching, training, man management, and wages.

 

For me, I know it was down to injuries and refereeing to a degree, and I suspect resentment about a lack of parity in training requirements and coaching deficiencies also exacerbated an already bad situation. Add to that revelations of high basic salary and low performance bonuses, and I think I have a reasonable picture of what may have caused our decline.

I'm not sure if your kidding or just blind about Levein, week after week of the same tactics that only worked once every four weeks if we where lucky,  Levein was 100% the problem we had this last two or three years and my eyes are still bleeding.

[Beast Boy]

17 minutes ago, sandylejambo said:

I'm not sure if your kidding or just blind about Levein, week after week of the same tactics that only worked once every four weeks if we where lucky,  Levein was 100% the problem we had this last two or three years and my eyes are still bleeding.

Yeah, sound.