Hearts transfers (Cochrane goes on loan to Montrose)

[DB-14]

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

 

Who we signing? 🥳

[vlad on the tyne]

Slightly pissed off that a player with good technical ability is away after not having achieved a great deal. Whether it was Tony himself who was the problem or the previous coaching regime, who knows? Good luck to him though 

[Alex Kintner]

18 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Terrible decision letting him leave. Still only 19 and has bags of potential. Could turn out to be a proper player

Didn’t have the attitude to match the ability unfortunately.

[iantjambo]

I’m not too fussed about McDonald leaving tbh. Like Cochrane, his progress seems to have stalled a little. Hopefully this move gets his career moving.

Good luck to him. 

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

He hasn't had a stellar career above our level. Scott Robinson is maybe the only example and he is above us right now more because of us rather than him being a big talent we let slip through our fingers.

 Harry Paton? Doig? Greg Stewart? Not many but a few kicking around 

[Bunny Munro]

I liked Tony MacDonald, but his best position was CAM and he's now got Walker and Naismith's ahead of him. 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Bunny Munro

[Pasquale for King]

Shame about Macdonald, talented boy but he and Cochrane havent progressed, not many have though recently. 

[Clerry Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

 

Danish striker bongo?

[Pans Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

 

Aye aye!!!

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Likewise, disappointed about McDonald.

[merrymac]

1 minute ago, Clerry Jambo said:

Danish striker bongo?

Streakkie Baccon

[The Fish]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Does he have that much ability? How do we know if he hasn't proven it by now? 

 

It is always disappointing when youngsters don't make it, but these players come and go. Before him there was Gary Glen, Paul McMullan, Billy King, David Smith, Gary Oliver, Calum Elliot... hundreds more over the years... Genuine talent will always come through so if he's good we'll find out.

 

It's true we seem to have given up on MacDonald earlier than some, unless he wanted to leave for the security of a contract. Could be due to the pandemic and general rationing of contracts. This at least frees up a space for the next in line in a younger age group.

 

Unless he’s requested a permanent move then I can’t see any reason why a loan move wouldn’t have been the more sensible option to see how he develops.

 

He made is debut very young and perhaps hasn’t kicked on enough since then but

he has been hampered by injury and at 19

is still really no age at all. He also looks like he has a lot of filling out to do.

 

He’s far better technically than any of the players you mention imo but if he’s not in Robbie’s plans (especially in the championship) then I suppose there’s only going to be one solution. Does make you wonder the point of our academy though.

[Lone Striker]

22 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

In over 30 years I can't remember a single young player around that age who we let leave (not counting young players we got good fees for) who proved us wrong by having a career above or even at our level. 

Off the top of my head - 

 

Alan Lithgow.   Took him a while to work his way up from Clyde etc .....but regular at Livi for a while now.

Jason Holt (a few years older). At Livi now.

Jordan McGhee.  Went to Falkirk. Now at Dundee I think

Jack Hamilton (a few years older).  At Dundee ( part of the Wighton deal ?)

Scott Robinson (a few years older) - At livi

 

Liam Smith ?  Went to Ayr then St. Mirren  I think

 

Young players sold for money - David Gray, Marc Leonard

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Lone Striker

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Likewise, disappointed about McDonald.

Me too - never got a real chance IMO.

Did we get money for him? Sell on clause?

[Rick Sanchez]

I'll go for Ramkilde on loan, that's my punt.

[fabienleclerq]

13 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 Bar his assist in the 4-0, ive never seen much from Tony.. the odd flash of talent but needs to do far far more.

 

 A move worth the gamble form his perspective, in fact a complete no brainer

 

I'll raise you assist v Dundee. 

 

I'm disappointed we never seen more of him tbh he looked a great talent when he first came through. 

[iantjambo]

2 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Me too - never got a real chance IMO.

Did we get money for him? Sell on clause?

I can’t imagine us getting much/any money for him. I would assume we’ll have a decent sell on clause though.

Edited October 5, 2020 by iantjambo

[Clark Griswold]

10 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

 

Is this the new Klaxxxxxuuuuunnnnn?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

Unless he’s requested a permanent move then I can’t see any reason why a loan move wouldn’t have been the more sensible option to see how he develops.

 

He made is debut very young and perhaps hasn’t kicked on enough since then but

he has been hampered by injury and at 19

is still really no age at all. He also looks like he has a lot of filling out to do.

 

He’s far better technically than any of the players you mention imo but if he’s not in Robbie’s plans (especially in the championship) then I suppose there’s only going to be one solution. Does make you wonder the point of our academy though.

 

Does it? As I said no youngster released by us at this age has ever gone on to make us regret it. Maybe there's someone who is 16 or 17 who has more promise.

[Ari Gold]

Would have kept Mcdonald ahead of Henderson and Moore. 

[Thomaso]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Does it? As I said no youngster released by us at this age has ever gone on to make us regret it. Maybe there's someone who is 16 or 17 who has more promise.

Maybe - but apart from Hickey the Academy has not been the goldmine some were suggesting.

[Thomaso]

2 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

Would have kept Mcdonald ahead of Henderson and Moore. 

Me too.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Off the top of my head - 

 

Alan Lithgow.   Took him a while to work his way up from Clyde etc .....but regular at Livi for a while now.

Jason Holt (a few years older). At Livi now.

Jordan McGhee.  Went to Falkirk. Now at Dundee I think

Jack Hamilton (a few years older).  At Dundee ( part of the Wighton deal ?)

Scott Robinson (a few years older) - At livi

 

Liam Smith ?  Went to Ayr then St. Mirren  I think

 

Young players sold for money - David Gray, Marc Leonard

 

 

Made my point. No player released around Macdonald's age has ended up playing at a level above us. Only Robinson just now, which is more down to our terrible season than his talent, although he's done well to progress later in his career.

 

Holt wasn't let go anyhow. he rejected a contract.

 

Liam Smith is a good one - a player Robbie signed for D Utd. he's doing well but again is only above us because of our shiteness. Time will tell if he has a career above our level on a consistent basis.

[Robdawg]

31 minutes ago, pointon said:

FairPlay 👍

Might be more to follow tonight 👀

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

Would have kept Mcdonald ahead of Henderson and Moore. 

 

Moore made more of an impact in the first team IMO. Henderson fair enough. 

[Alex Kintner]

5 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Unless he’s requested a permanent move then I can’t see any reason why a loan move wouldn’t have been the more sensible option to see how he develops.

 

He made is debut very young and perhaps hasn’t kicked on enough since then but

he has been hampered by injury and at 19

is still really no age at all. He also looks like he has a lot of filling out to do.

 

He’s far better technically than any of the players you mention imo but if he’s not in Robbie’s plans (especially in the championship) then I suppose there’s only going to be one solution. Does make you wonder the point of our academy though.

The point of our academy is to develop players who come in and take up a place in the first team squad like Moore, Brandon and Henderson and then get sold on like Hickey. 

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

Would have kept Mcdonald ahead of Henderson and Moore. 

Why?

[soonbe110]

18 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Does he have that much ability? How do we know if he hasn't proven it by now? Loads of young players have great ability but can't make the stop up for temperament or other reasons. Always think Calum Elliot is a great example of that. He was very good as a youngster - came through with Scotland younger age groups with Steven Fletcher and looked the much better player. Also good initially in the first team. Just never seemed to have confidence in his own ability though.

 

It is always disappointing when youngsters don't make it, but these players come and go. Before him there was Gary Glen, Paul McMullan, Billy King, David Smith, Gary Oliver.. hundreds more over the years... Genuine talent will always come through so if he's good we'll find out.

 

It's true we seem to have given up on MacDonald earlier than some, unless he wanted to leave for the security of a contract. Could be due to the pandemic and general rationing of contracts. This at least frees up a space for the next in line in a younger age group.

 

Lack of pace was Calum’s downfall. Ant has a similar problem 

[DH1986]

1 minute ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Maybe - but apart from Hickey the Academy has not been the goldmine some were suggesting.

Takes years to properly bear the fruits of an academy.....we basically started from scratch 6 years ago so I reckon it could well be another 3 or 4 years before we see a batch all coming through to the first team together.

[Bongo 1874]

3 minutes ago, Robdawg said:

Might be more to follow tonight 👀

👍😉. 

[soonbe110]

16 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Didn’t have the attitude to match the ability unfortunately.

👍👍👍

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, DH1986 said:

Takes years to properly bear the fruits of an academy.....we basically started from scratch 6 years ago so I reckon it could well be another 3 or 4 years before we see a batch all coming through to the first team together.

The club have very high hopes for Cammy Logan and you could argue his year group are the first of that new bunch to come through.(Hickey was obviously accelerated)

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, DH1986 said:

Takes years to properly bear the fruits of an academy.....we basically started from scratch 6 years ago so I reckon it could well be another 3 or 4 years before we see a batch all coming through to the first team together.

Don’t get your logic.

If we started 6 years ago bringing in young talent at say 14 years old they would be 20 now and surely ready for first team action?

[Lone Striker]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Made my point. No player released around Macdonald's age has ended up playing at a level above us. Only Robinson just now, which is more down to our terrible season than his talent, although he's done well to progress later in his career.

 

Holt wasn't let go anyhow. he rejected a contract.

 

Liam Smith is a good one - a player Robbie signed for D Utd. he's doing well but again is only above us because of our shiteness. Time will tell if he has a career above our level on a consistent basis.

Fair comment - although you have to wonder if we hadn't signed so much  dross  in the last 3 years in an attempt to better ourselves (but which contributed to our downfall) and just offered more money to the likes of Holt, Nicholson, Walker and Paterson to sign new contracts - then would we have been as bad in the 19-20 season.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Hope the news of the next journeyman is swift. Just not the same in the championship 

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

The club have very high hopes for Cammy Logan and you could argue his year group are the first of that new bunch to come through.(Hickey was obviously accelerated)

That year and the next couple of years behind have some real prospects.  
At this stage though it’s just potential - Darge, Watson, Stone, Denholm, Flatman. 

[jamboinglasgow]

I would say, that if Hickey and McDonald do well, then it means other European clubs will take more interest in our younger players and may look to sign them. Not a bad thing as it opens up bids rather than keeping it just to trying to sell to England.

[hearts00]

I want to be all positive right now but McDonald leaving is disappointing. As mentioned by another poster what is the point in the youth academy?

 

is it always going to be the next crop coming through that will make it!?!?

 

McDonald had tremendous ability in flashes at the age of 16, he leaves at 19 contributing little. How many times have we seen this? Cochrane will be next. 
 

The amazing thing is we will be starting in the Championship shortly and we were told again about how we will be using youth when Robbie joined. Well with the exception of Irving who is 21 now, not a single player from the academy will be playing or contributing this season.  

[jblair182]

9 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Maybe - but apart from Hickey the Academy has not been the goldmine some were suggesting.

Apart from Hickey doesn’t really work though as he was part of our academy and was sold for seven figures. We are now starting to see the benefit. Hickey only broke into the team 18 months ago. One Hickey every 18 months from now and we’d be doing very well. 

[allystrachan]

Just tried to look at the league he will be playing in. Looks pretty confusing but I’m sure it must be regional groups below the top two leagues. Sounds like something we could do with here. 

[DH1986]

6 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Don’t get your logic.

If we started 6 years ago bringing in young talent at say 14 years old they would be 20 now and surely ready for first team action?

And where do you get14 from ?
 

Do you think we just waltzed in after having done nothing for years and scooped up the best 14 year olds around ?
 

We picked up scraps initially to give us a platform to work with....guys like Cochrane and MacDonald for example.

Edited October 5, 2020 by DH1986

[The Fish]

11 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Does it? As I said no youngster released by us at this age has ever gone on to make us regret it. Maybe there's someone who is 16 or 17 who has more promise.

Surely the primary purpose of the academy is to develop players for the first team. Releasing promising players at 19 years old doesn’t really help with that. I’m not disputing we’ve released a lot

of dross over the years that haven’t proved us wrong

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

I want to be all positive right now but McDonald leaving is disappointing. As mentioned by another poster what is the point in the youth academy?

 

is it always going to be the next crop coming through that will make it!?!?

 

McDonald had tremendous ability in flashes at the age of 16, he leaves at 19 contributing little. How many times have we seen this? Cochrane will be next. 
 

The amazing thing is we will be starting in the Championship shortly and we were told again about how we will be using youth when Robbie joined. Well with the exception of Irving who is 21 now, not a single player from the academy will be playing or contributing this season.  

Slightly less impact but Connor Smith was excellent at Easter Road when thrown in and barely seen again. 
 

We seem to struggle to transition players into the first team. At the very least we should be able to develop squad players - not everyone had to be the new Robbie or Rudi. I would settle for the next Wayne Foster. 

[BigAlim]

21 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

I'll go for Ramkilde on loan, that's my punt.

 

22 year old with 260 minutes of football under his belt, sounds about right

[soonbe110]

7 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

I want to be all positive right now but McDonald leaving is disappointing. As mentioned by another poster what is the point in the youth academy?

 

is it always going to be the next crop coming through that will make it!?!?

 

McDonald had tremendous ability in flashes at the age of 16, he leaves at 19 contributing little. How many times have we seen this? Cochrane will be next. 
 

The amazing thing is we will be starting in the Championship shortly and we were told again about how we will be using youth when Robbie joined. Well with the exception of Irving who is 21 now, not a single player from the academy will be playing or contributing this season.  

Henderson, Moore, Logan, Stone, will all be involved at some point this coming season I’d think possibly one or two other graduates as well. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

8 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Surely the primary purpose of the academy is to develop players for the first team. Releasing promising players at 19 years old doesn’t really help with that. I’m not disputing we’ve released a lot

of dross over the years that haven’t proved us wrong

 

As far as I know MacDonald was a first team squad player not a youth player anymore. We're operating with a very tight squad for the foreseeable so maybe creating a spot for a new player or a youngster to step into was the preference, and maybe he wanted away to get more first team football. Who knows, but all we have to go on is one or two promising first team cameos and people saying how great he is. He didn't even do that well in the lower leagues on loan it seems, unlike others who progressed to the first team. I don't know how anyone can say with confidence whether or not this is a mistake to let him leave.

Edited October 5, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[steve123]

Somebody who I presume is a family member has posted a pic oh him at new stadium on hearts twitter, says he needed out of Scotland not just hearts !!

Edited October 5, 2020 by steve123

[benny]

18 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Lack of pace was Calum’s downfall. Ant has a similar problem 

The stupid decision to send him out on loan to Motherwell had a bigger impact.

He was doing great and for some reason Vlad wanted him to go out on loan 2006/07 season.

[Alex Kintner]

13 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

I want to be all positive right now but McDonald leaving is disappointing. As mentioned by another poster what is the point in the youth academy?

 

is it always going to be the next crop coming through that will make it!?!?

 

McDonald had tremendous ability in flashes at the age of 16, he leaves at 19 contributing little. How many times have we seen this? Cochrane will be next. 
 

The amazing thing is we will be starting in the Championship shortly and we were told again about how we will be using youth when Robbie joined. Well with the exception of Irving who is 21 now, not a single player from the academy will be playing or contributing this season.  

What about Moore, Brandon and Henderson? They’re all established first team squad players now. Logan, Hamilton and Stone will join them once they’ve had a bit more experience on loan.

[jr ewing]

21 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

Takes years to properly bear the fruits of an academy.....we basically started from scratch 6 years ago so I reckon it could well be another 3 or 4 years before we see a batch all coming through to the first team together.

How much will that have cost?